Laker's Record and Perspective

[LakersSoul]

Remember we won 17 games last year and our realistic expectations for the year? With all the ups and downs and complaining about the Lakers, after the win against a hapless Knicks, we are 18-36 on the season. This means we have already surpassed last season's total win by 1 game with 28 games remaining. Congrats Lakers!! In fact if we keep this pace, we are on track to record 27 to 28 wins. 27-28 wins if we do NOT improve. I would say a 10 win increase is a good jump but we are projecting up and could get more than 30 wins this season.

Many were not predicting or giving the Lakers a chance at 30 wins this season. Yet, so many are talking about selling our guys and pissed that we are not tanking. What gives? Yeah another top 3 pick helps but seriously we are making solid improvements here and most are not noticing. We are doing this and still only scratching the tip of our potential.

Dlo, Randle, BI, Zubac, Black, Clarkson and Nance have shown signs of breaking out and/or moments of brilliance. These guys are all practically 1-2 years into their NBA season if you ignore the injury season to Randle. So lets be a little more patient. The team looks better as they learn to play as a team, play better defense and move the ball more under Luke. So lets be patient.

In hindsight, the contracts to Moz (4/65) and Deng (4/72) look horrible. However, horrible contracts are everywhere this summer. Everywhere. Remember the other options for us? Guys available at similar or worst contract to Moz is not doing so much better. Mahinmi (4/64), Biyombo (4/72), Ezeli (2/15) and Noah (4/72). We wanted Horford and Whiteside but were not given an interview, remember. On Deng, we wanted Bazemore (4/70) and Barnes (4/94) but they passes on us as well, remember. Tank again and we will not get top or second tier guys to sign with us for another 2 years. If you were a FA, would you go to Knicks or Brooklyn or Phoenix? That applies to the Lakers too and will get worse with another tank season.

Next summer we need a good point guard (3/50) regardless of the draft pick situation plus a good vet forward for 2/12. Then our roster should be set with pieces to trade or add/subtract as needed.

[LakersSoul]

Remember we won 17 games last year and our realistic expectations for the year? With all the ups and downs and complaining about the Lakers, after the win against a hapless Knicks, we are 18-36 on the season. This means we have already surpassed last season's total win by 1 game with 28 games remaining. Congrats Lakers!! In fact if we keep this pace, we are on track to record 27 to 28 wins. 27-28 wins if we do NOT improve. I would say a 10 win increase is a good jump but we are projecting up and could get more than 30 wins this season.

Many were not predicting or giving the Lakers a chance at 30 wins this season. Yet, so many are talking about selling our guys and pissed that we are not tanking. What gives? Yeah another top 3 pick helps but seriously we are making solid improvements here and most are not noticing. We are doing this and still only scratching the tip of our potential.

Dlo, Randle, BI, Zubac, Black, Clarkson and Nance have shown signs of breaking out and/or moments of brilliance. These guys are all practically 1-2 years into their NBA season if you ignore the injury season to Randle. So lets be a little more patient. The team looks better as they learn to play as a team, play better defense and move the ball more under Luke. So lets be patient.

In hindsight, the contracts to Moz (4/65) and Deng (4/72) look horrible. However, horrible contracts are everywhere this summer. Everywhere. Remember the other options for us? Guys available at similar or worst contract to Moz is not doing so much better. Mahinmi (4/64), Biyombo (4/72), Ezeli (2/15) and Noah (4/72). We wanted Horford and Whiteside but were not given an interview, remember. On Deng, we wanted Bazemore (4/70) and Barnes (4/94) but they passes on us as well, remember. Tank again and we will not get top or second tier guys to sign with us for another 2 years. If you were a FA, would you go to Knicks or Brooklyn or Phoenix? That applies to the Lakers too and will get worse with another tank season.

Next summer we need a good point guard (3/50) regardless of the draft pick situation plus a good vet forward for 2/12. Then our roster should be set with pieces to trade or add/subtract as needed.

Overall, in the last year...

We added two more talented players, BI and Zubac.
We improved our win total by 1 over last year with 28 games left.
We added a stud coach in Luke that is trying to transform the team into a contender.
We have not sold our assets.
We added Magic as an advisor.

Not a bad year and the year is not over yet. We have a lot to be excited about.

[Landsberger]

A 10 win jump is significant. I was thinking we could get into the very low 30's with a almost everything going right but 25 to 30 is still a great year.

I'd say the book is still unwritten on Luke. Purple glasses on the table... he's a rookie coach and a guy who's never been a head coach before. He's got just as long a road as the rookies IMHO. That said, I like some of what I'm seeing with him. Some of his lineups do leave you scratching your head and it doesn't seem like defense is an emphasis right now either. That said he's doing fine for a first year coach.

Magic as an advisor... I was around the last time that happened and it wasn't a good ending for our younger players in the 90's. Hoping it's different but knowing it's most likely not going to be. This is more of a desperation move IMHO. If we thought this was a good idea why not do it last summer? It's not like Magic hasn't been wanting influence.

Assets are just that. Nothing written that you can't "sell" them for equal or greater value. I hope the leadership sells on anyone to make the team better faster. Also, you "sell" when the group is not complementing each other. We have some imbalances in our young guys starting to show themselves.

[Vesper]

On the downside...

We added 2 longterm contracts and signed Clarkson to a long term deal, which is about 40 percent of our CAP and 3 potential Bench players for the next 3 seasons...

We are still tied for worse in the west with the Suns imo.....

Also, we could lose our 2017 and 2019 first round picks.....

ANd we still suckass in defense.

Another big thing is all the crappy teams in the west are getting better too... So, the warriors, spurs and clippers can fall in the next few years, but the crap teams all have decent potential to rise as well.

[slifersd]

The success and failure of this team in this rebuilding period depends on one thing really, whether or not we have found the next superstar or superstars to build around. And to that degree, I would hardly define this season a success. The young guys showed improvement, but none of the young players look like a star in the making right now. Potential, yes, but potential doesn't always lead to success.

[Kupchak9]

Perspective: I wouldnt mind losing all remaining 28 games if it means we keep our draft pick.

[danfantastk32]

Many were not predicting or giving the Lakers a chance at 30 wins this season. Yet, so many are talking about selling our guys and pissed that we are not tanking. What gives? Yeah another top 3 pick helps but seriously we are making solid improvements here and most are not noticing. We are doing this and still only scratching the tip of our potential.

I remember 30(ish) wins being the vast majority if the predictions. You had a couple guys thinking playoffs, and a couple guys thinking 22ish wins. The rest were in the 28-33 win range.

Speaking of perspective....you do realize your comparing this season to the worst year in franchise history, right? Is this what we've become? It's a sad day for the Lakers when we're a game or 2 above last place in the West...and people call that "solid improvements".

Lastly, we could have 30 wins right now....but if we were nowhere near the playoffs....and only a game or two from the the #2 spot in the lottery....I'd be saying tank it up then as well. Our record has nothing to do with the fact that we are in a prime situation to get a potential star player at complete cost-control for 5 years or so.

But seriously.....don't lose sight of what you are comparing us to. Last year was humiliating, unacceptable, and should never be allowed to happen again. The fact that we are marginally better (are we?) shouldn't make us happy.

[LakersSoul]

Many were not predicting or giving the Lakers a chance at 30 wins this season. Yet, so many are talking about selling our guys and pissed that we are not tanking. What gives? Yeah another top 3 pick helps but seriously we are making solid improvements here and most are not noticing. We are doing this and still only scratching the tip of our potential.

I remember 30(ish) wins being the vast majority if the predictions. You had a couple guys thinking playoffs, and a couple guys thinking 22ish wins. The rest were in the 28-33 win range.

Speaking of perspective....you do realize your comparing this season to the worst year in franchise history, right? Is this what we've become? It's a sad day for the Lakers when we're a game or 2 above last place in the West...and people call that "solid improvements".

Lastly, we could have 30 wins right now....but if we were nowhere near the playoffs....and only a game or two from the the #2 spot in the lottery....I'd be saying tank it up then as well. Our record has nothing to do with the fact that we are in a prime situation to get a potential star player at complete cost-control for 5 years or so.

But seriously.....don't lose sight of what you are comparing us to. Last year was humiliating, unacceptable, and should never be allowed to happen again. The fact that we are marginally better (are we?) shouldn't make us happy.

Dan,

We have the same core of players plus 2 rookies, a new coach and 2 B rated free agents. Nothing else has changed from that "humiliating, unacceptable" year. We are one year removed from that 17 win season. What else can we compare it to? It wasnt like our All-Stars were injured or that we added a superstar over the summer. We didnt. With essentially the same team plus 2 new rookies, we are on pace for 30 wins or more than 10 more wins than last year and many games where we are competitive and some where we blow the game open. I would say that is an improvement even if you think this team should go from last to middle of the playoffs.

[LakersSoul]

Many were not predicting or giving the Lakers a chance at 30 wins this season. Yet, so many are talking about selling our guys and pissed that we are not tanking. What gives? Yeah another top 3 pick helps but seriously we are making solid improvements here and most are not noticing. We are doing this and still only scratching the tip of our potential.

I remember 30(ish) wins being the vast majority if the predictions. You had a couple guys thinking playoffs, and a couple guys thinking 22ish wins. The rest were in the 28-33 win range.

Speaking of perspective....you do realize your comparing this season to the worst year in franchise history, right? Is this what we've become? It's a sad day for the Lakers when we're a game or 2 above last place in the West...and people call that "solid improvements".

Lastly, we could have 30 wins right now....but if we were nowhere near the playoffs....and only a game or two from the the #2 spot in the lottery....I'd be saying tank it up then as well. Our record has nothing to do with the fact that we are in a prime situation to get a potential star player at complete cost-control for 5 years or so.

But seriously.....don't lose sight of what you are comparing us to. Last year was humiliating, unacceptable, and should never be allowed to happen again. The fact that we are marginally better (are we?) shouldn't make us happy.

Regarding the wins, actually 2/3 of the poll voted that we will not win more than 30 games and that many commented that 30 was too hard of a number to reach after winning just 17 last year and having the same core plus 2 rookies. Many commented that they would be estatic to reach 30 and contend for a playoff spot even though they all know that is beyond the team's reach.

[Landsberger]

But seriously.....don't lose sight of what you are comparing us to. Last year was humiliating, unacceptable, and should never be allowed to happen again. The fact that we are marginally better (are we?) shouldn't make us happy.

The next few years will be similar to this one if we stay with the "develop the young guys" approach. The hole we were in was very deep and our ability to get out of it very limited. This team is a ways away from being relevant again. Adding a top level star will only get us into the low 40's in wins and I'm not sure there is a high probability we can add one without gutting the youth we have.

This team won't be truly competing for a title again until we can win 50-60 games. That much improvement compared to what we have now is not just time for the young guys while adding a top FA. There is a lot of work to do in getting a TEAM together not just a bunch of talented individuals. Thats is how you get from 35 to 45 wins.

I agree it's unacceptable however realistically I don't see us on the fast track back to relevance so this is what the true Laker fans will have to follow for the next 4 or 5 years.

[danfantastk32]

I agree it's not gonna fix itself over night, and that's kinda my point. We are in sh**sville as a team...and let's not be happy until we are at least in the postseason. This is garbage.

And so....while a handful of wins would technically mean improvement....it's still just a better bag of trash. This team needs all the help it can get, ie....a top 3 pick! Keep the pick....trade the pick....I don't care what we do, but GET THE PICK. But what we currently have is not enough, and so a top-3 pick would be great for this team.

[LALifer49]

Many were not predicting or giving the Lakers a chance at 30 wins this season. Yet, so many are talking about selling our guys and pissed that we are not tanking. What gives? Yeah another top 3 pick helps but seriously we are making solid improvements here and most are not noticing. We are doing this and still only scratching the tip of our potential.

I remember 30(ish) wins being the vast majority if the predictions. You had a couple guys thinking playoffs, and a couple guys thinking 22ish wins. The rest were in the 28-33 win range.

Speaking of perspective....you do realize your comparing this season to the worst year in franchise history, right? Is this what we've become? It's a sad day for the Lakers when we're a game or 2 above last place in the West...and people call that "solid improvements".

Lastly, we could have 30 wins right now....but if we were nowhere near the playoffs....and only a game or two from the the #2 spot in the lottery....I'd be saying tank it up then as well. Our record has nothing to do with the fact that we are in a prime situation to get a potential star player at complete cost-control for 5 years or so.

But seriously.....don't lose sight of what you are comparing us to. Last year was humiliating, unacceptable, and should never be allowed to happen again. The fact that we are marginally better (are we?) shouldn't make us happy.

Dan,

We have the same core of players plus 2 rookies, a new coach and 2 B rated free agents. Nothing else has changed from that "humiliating, unacceptable" year. We are one year removed from that 17 win season. What else can we compare it to? It wasnt like our All-Stars were injured or that we added a superstar over the summer. We didnt. With essentially the same team plus 2 new rookies, we are on pace for 30 wins or more than 10 more wins than last year and many games where we are competitive and some where we blow the game open. I would say that is an improvement even if you think this team should go from last to middle of the playoffs.

I mean...thats one way to look at it. Another way is that of our core players 3 were rookies and now they are 2nd year, so a big jump is expected (not as much for Nance) and those 2 B rated free agents are expected to play a fairly big role on our team considering they are taking up a max contract between them for the next 3 years. It isn't essentially the same team because of the addition of those 2 guys. And over half our wins came in the first quarter of the season. I'd say most of the fanbase is probably disappointed, I certainly am, and while we've definitely improved, we didn't have much further down to drop. At any rate, I think changes should be made to this franchise, starting from the top.

[Landsberger]

While I can agree on changes from the top down it's not like a new owner/GM/President of operations is bringing 2 top FA's with them and refilling our draft picks back to the "full" position. Our leadership, over the last 3 years, has done as well as anyone could have. We have surprises in Nance, Clarkson and Zubac and some decent talent in Russell, Ingram and Randle. That's a good start.

The issue is that none of these younger guys is a lead dog on a good/great team. Even as early as it is I think it's safe to say that. They are good pieces. Great teams are a blend of youth and vets that fit together in a team philosophy. This is the part we are still light years away from IMHO. Talented teams like the last several years OKC teams (3 potential MVP's on those teams) couldn't get over the top because they lacked the balance and Alpha. This is the next step for us. We need top flight veterans, less youth overall and a strong top down philosophy of winning in a system. This is what separated us from the OKC's, LAC's and Sac's of the NBA world in the past not just talent.

[Pointgod]

Our leadership over the past 5 years has been a disaster. Outside of the draft, they've failed to identity talent because they've been too busy chasing stars.

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/244831/Agent-Mitch-Kupchak-Is-NBAs-Only-GM-Who-Doesnt-Engage-Before-July-1st

We can spin it all we want but other than player development, the only thing keeping this season from being a complete failure is keeping our draft pick. And holy **** if Lou Williams and Nick Young are still around after the deadline heads need to roll. I don't have any faith in the current leadership, they've show that they don't have any vision or plan for this team. When they strike out in free agency they panic and sign the Luol Dengs and Mozgovs to ridiculous contracts. I can already predict what they'll do next offseason. After striking out they'll sign some mediocre over the hill players or resign Nick Young to a 1 year contract and extend Randle despite uncertainty about fit.

We need new blood in here that isn't attached to any of our young guys and that's not afraid to make some trades.

[Kilroy]

Year after year, we hear the same thing from fans... "The FO failed, because they ______?"

What we never hear is any specific screw up that can be definitively proven to represent a failure and only a failure on the FO's part...

A player signing somewhere else, cheaper, doesn't count - Lots of other factors at play in that scenario
Us 'Paying too much for X' doesn't qualify either - Because you don't have enough information about the negotiation to say that
What the media says doesn't count either - Because a lot of times, you have even more information than they do, and there's no way of telling when that's true or false...

Every year there's tons of stories about how inept Mitch or Jim or Laker X is... And just saying that seems to be enough for the story to have legs and the narrative to take off and have a life of it's own... But there are never any facts to support those theories.... Just rumors, supposition, and faulty logic...

I'm not saying our FO is perfect... In fact it seems pretty dysfunctional to me... But I think the negative effect of this dysfunction on the product on the court is either completely fabricated, or vastly over-blown.

That's the perspective I have of our record... We have a talent-vacuum created by Kobe deteriorating and retiring...
Nothing's changed... It's all largely to be expected.

[RingsDontLie]

The success and failure of this team in this rebuilding period depends on one thing really, whether or not we have found the next superstar or superstars to build around. And to that degree, I would hardly define this season a success. The young guys showed improvement, but none of the young players look like a star in the making right now. Potential, yes, but potential doesn't always lead to success.

This is true. Without a real superstar we are just another team. Haven't watched any of the games as of late. Ingram has had some decent stats the last two games though. Better field goal percentage, averaging 15ppg last two games. This is something to get excited about. Every game he does well is momentum towards the possibility of him being the next great laker.

[Dr Aki]

Year after year, we hear the same thing from fans... "The FO failed, because they ______?"

Don't have a superstar/budding superstar

really all that matters unfortunately

[Vesper]

Thats not stopping the Miami Heat from winning...

They got a DON in their front office that literally said F U to Lebron, Wade and Bosh. Whiteside head got too big and the DON put him in his place. Now, the team is winning without their 2 best young players.....

[LALifer49]

The people defending the front office based on our draft choices, yes, I have no problem with the draft choices, they are doing a good job there. The only changes I would make aside from dumb stuff like Jokic steada Clarkson which we couldnt have predicted would be Zingas over Dlo, and thats a total hindsight call don't blame them for that. It is everything else that they seem to be failing at. We had the same window as the Celtics, Became contenders 08, stayed competitive til 12, season fell apart in 13. The difference is, when the product no longer worked for the celtics, they took action and rebuilt the right way, they made trades, and they signed solid pieces to reasonable deals. Us on the other hand? I can get over not trading Howard although I was calling for it, but we let Gasol go for nothing. When is the last time we attempted to make a trade that involved any piece of significance? Meanwhile, for years we let tons of good fa who would have been eager to come to LA fall through our grasps in pursuit of stars that were obviously not coming here like Melo and LMA. People may say I'm saying this in hindsight, but no, it was obvious, why would those stars come to us when we had no foundation? In the meantime we let players like Bazemore, and Isaiah Thomas, players who wanted to be Lakers, go to other teams while we chased dreams. Instead we settle for **** players no1else wanted like Boozer, Wesley Johnson, Wayne Ellington, and now we have to pay 16 million per year for 4 years just to get a Mozgov to sign with us??

The front office's completely flawed and foolish fa strategy and complacency have really set us back, and I'm not giving them a pass, not when we're supposed to be a premier franchise. The celtics executed a complete rebuild in the same time span we started ours and had 1 season under .500, their most expensive contract outside Horford is the 12 million expiring deal of Amir Johnson, Thomas and Bradley are signed through next year on Lou Williams deals, and Crowder is signed through 2020 8 million per. That is a good front office.

[danfantastk32]

Year after year, we hear the same thing from fans... "The FO failed, because they ______?"
What we never hear is any specific screw up that can be definitively proven to represent a failure and only a failure on the FO's part...

Nothing specific.....are you serious? You can't possibly be.

Well....there's not signing any free agents for about 3 or 4 years (all were trades, except MAYBE some minimum guy here or there. Nothing even CLOSE to a 'legit' FA). Offering the max to Carmelo.....AND FAILING(Thank GOD). Turning around and offering the max to Dirk.....AND FAILING. The horrible double-let down by Aldridge. Losing Pau (who signed for much less than what the Lakers offered). Massively overpaying Kobe (who was still injured at the time)

.....shall I go on??? Cause I've written this out before....

Ok.....well they failed miserably at keeping Dwight. They couldn't even get a real free agent to talk to them last season. They massively overpaid for elder FA's in Deng and Mozgov (Jim's first true free-agent signing since taking over).

Let's see.....back-to-back worst seasons ever. Rating's in the toilet....including Kobe's final year (ive dropped articles about that at least 5 times....i don't feel the need to do it again)



The truth is....who's got anything specific that Jim has done well? Our signings? You mean this 18-37 super-team we have? Hardly a case for "great signings".

All this FO has done, is stink up the joint. I can prob bring up another half-dozen "specifics" no problem.