Lakers dodged a bullet by not hiring Phil

warren weel im · Post #1 » by **warren weel im** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 8:25 am

Revisionists here blame D'Antoni for the 2012 Dwight Howard fallout. I don't blame you, Dwight could/would've stayed if it was Phil at the helm. However, he would've demanded alot (5yr deal, fully guaranteed) among several other things.

Here were the events leading up to it:

In December 2011, when the lockout was "finally" over, the Lakers traded Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol, in return would land Chris Paul from the New Orleans Hornets. Gasol was to head to NOH and Odom to HOU, along w/ Kevin Martin, Luis Scola and Goran Dragic.

Such a deal never happened, was vetoed/nixed and such... which caused Lamar Odom to request a trade. Knowing there was no turning back from this, Lakers traded Odom to Dallas for a TPE and a protected 1st rounder.

Summer of 2012, the Lakers used Lamar Odom's traded player exception, along with picks 2013 and 2015 to the Phoenix Suns to land 37yo Steve Nash.

August 2012, the Lakers acquired the still-injured Dwight Howard from the Orlando Magic. All this cost the Lakers was a broken Andrew Bynum and a 2017 1st round pick.

In December of 2012, when the Lakers went 0-8 in preseason and 1-4 in the regular season, Mike Brown was fired and replaced by Bernie Bickerstaff. At this time, Jerry Buss was ill and supposedly hired Mike D'Antoni over Phil Jackson (who wanted to but said he wasn't sure) come back as Lakers coach.

So let's revise this part and say Dr. Buss, wanted Son-In-Law-to-be Phil Jackson to coach once more.

MDA wouldn't have been hired, Steve Nash would've still been injured, Kobe would still have ruptured his achilles in April 2013 and Lakers still would exit the 2013 playoffs in round 1.

Which leads to free agency, and Dwight supposedly signs a full 5-yr max contract w/ the Lakers.

Let's review more closely:
1. Dwight gets full max, along with everything else he asks for.
2. Kobe to be amnestied along with his 30M salary.
3. Pau Gasol would've remained w/ Lakers the ensuing years.
4. Kobe signs elsewhere, after recovering, most-likely to join Lebron in Miami.

By then we'd be stuck with an injured, grumpy Howard until this season included (would be an expiring contract), Phil would've constantly taken shots at Dwight in the media, and I bet we would be constantly be asking for offers from other teams who would be interested at a 31yo goofball.

This is not to say the Lakers are at a great place right now, but aren't we so much better than where we would've been if not for hiring D'Antoni?

Marionettetc · Post #2 » by **Marionettetc** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:52 pm

Hindsight is 20/20, and if any of those variables were off who knows what sort of situation we would be in today. Trying to ascribe order to chaos is madness.

Gek · Post #3 » by **Gek** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 3:13 pm

Puxatawny Phil recently saw his shadow. Six more weeks of winter, I guess...

Post #4 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 5:54 pm

Gek wrote:Puxatawny Phil recently saw his shadow. Six more weeks of winter, I guess...

reality be like

we be like

Landsberger · Post #5 » by **Landsberger** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:27 pm

Not a Phil fan as a FO guy at all. He did what he did with the Kobe teams and for the most part it was very good.

We've stumbled into an even worse situation wth Magic I'm afraid...

indilakeshow · Post #6 » by **indilakeshow** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:35 pm

warren weel im wrote:Revisionists here blame D'Antoni for the 2012 Dwight Howard fallout. I don't blame you, Dwight could/would've stayed if it was Phil at the helm. However, he would've demanded alot (5yr deal, fully guaranteed) among several other things.

Here were the events leading up to it:

In December 2011, when the lockout was "finally" over, the Lakers traded Lamar Odom and Pau Gasol, in return would land Chris Paul from the New Orleans Hornets. Gasol was to head to NOH and Odom to HOU, along w/ Kevin Martin, Luis Scola and Goran Dragic.

Such a deal never happened, was vetoed/nixed and such... which caused Lamar Odom to request a trade. Knowing there was no turning back from this, Lakers traded Odom to Dallas for a TPE and a protected 1st rounder.

Summer of 2012, the Lakers used Lamar Odom's traded player exception, along with picks 2013 and 2015 to the Phoenix Suns to land 37yo Steve Nash.

August 2012, the Lakers acquired the still-injured Dwight Howard from the Orlando Magic. All this cost the Lakers was a broken Andrew Bynum and a 2017 1st round pick.

In December of 2012, when the Lakers went 0-8 in preseason and 1-4 in the regular season, Mike Brown was fired and replaced by Bernie Bickerstaff. At this time, Jerry Buss was ill and supposedly hired Mike D'Antoni over Phil Jackson (who wanted to but said he wasn't sure) come back as Lakers coach.

So let's revise this part and say Dr. Buss, wanted Son-In-Law-to-be Phil Jackson to coach once more.

MDA wouldn't have been hired, Steve Nash would've still been injured, Kobe would still have ruptured his achilles in April 2013 and Lakers still would exit the 2013 playoffs in round 1.

Which leads to free agency, and Dwight supposedly signs a full 5-yr max contract w/ the Lakers.

Let's review more closely:
1. Dwight gets full max, along with everything else he asks for.
2. Kobe to be amnestied along with his 30M salary.
3. Pau Gasol would've remained w/ Lakers the ensuing years.
4. Kobe signs elsewhere, after recovering, most-likely to join Lebron in Miami.

By then we'd be stuck with an injured, grumpy Howard until this season included (would be an expiring contract), Phil would've constantly taken shots at Dwight in the media, and I bet we would be constantly be asking for offers from other teams who would be interested at a 31yo goofball.

This is not to say the Lakers are at a great place right now, but aren't we so much better than where we would've been if not for hiring D'Antoni?

Why would Nash have been injured? Why would Kobe have ruptures his achilles? If you change the entire style of how they play, why do they still exit in the 1st round? Phil Jackson always wanted another play maker to help take the load off of Kobe, I think he would have balanced the usage rate for both Nash and Kobe.

So... i'm not sure what your point was with this thread. You can't change a fundamental thing like how the team executes offense and expect the same results and make the argument of, "See! It all would've been the same!"

Princeinrevolt · Post #7 » by **Princeinrevolt** » Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:54 pm

^ and i don't think we would ever amnesty Kobe...

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danfantastk32 · Post #8 » by **danfantastk32** » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:14 am

If this is what dodging a bullet looks like......

Edrees · Post #9 » by **Edrees** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:30 pm

How do you know if Kobe would have ruptured his Achilles? What if Phil ran a different play on that possession and kobe was on the bench during that play? You don't know. I'm not saying its because of D'Antoni, but if you change even the slightest thing of history you could end up on a totally different path.

I think Nash was definitely old and done but Kobe had an impact injury that could have been prevented.

What if Phil pushed management to get Porzingis? So many factors here.

madmaxmedia · Post #10 » by **madmaxmedia** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:46 pm

They would have signed Lebron and KD.

Post #11 » by **Kilroy** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:03 pm

Edrees wrote:How do you know if Kobe would have ruptured his Achilles? What if Phil ran a different play on that possession and kobe was on the bench during that play? You don't know. I'm not saying its because of D'Antoni, but if you change even the slightest thing of history you could end up on a totally different path.

I think Nash was definitely old and done but Kobe had an impact injury that could have been prevented.

What if Phil pushed management to get Porzingis? So many factors here.

Even assuming Prozingis would be playing as well on this team which I find highly doubtful, if we had taken Porzingis, the sixers may have taken Russell, and Okafor would have been on the Knicks... I think the Sixers with Russell would be a much better team, and I bet we'd be getting all kinds of grief for not taking him over Porzingis... Okafor would have had time to develop in NY, the Knicks fans would love him, and we'd be getting crap for not taking him too...
At the end of the day, Porzingis is a 20/7 player on the Knicks... That, as good as it is, wouldn't necessarily translate to wins on our team without Russell. But it probably would have been enough to cost us Ingram.

trevm37 · Post #12 » by **trevm37** » Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:17 pm

It was common knowledge Phil preferred Okafor in the draft, and was hoping he'd fall to the Knicks at #4. If Phil was picking second for the Lakers, his pick would've been Okafor.

Alienware · Post #13 » by **Alienware** » Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:53 am

Sure, looking at it now with PJax making a fool of himself as the Knicks GM/President and Dan Tony having build an excellent offensive machine in Houston, our choice does seem a bit better, but having Phil instead of Mike would've changed so many variables that it's laughable to use whatever happened next as a point to why it was the right choice.

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