Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Let's Steal Zach LaVine
- milesfides
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Let's Steal Zach LaVine
It's awful that this kid tore his ACL. But I think we should roll the dice and pick him up. He's worth the upside.
1) it's not a career ender, especially because he's only 21. That's a good sign, considering that many guys who tore the ACL's at a young age still retained their athleticism. Baron Davis and Kyle Lowry tore their ACLs in college, which most people don't know, because they ended up being among the most athletic and physical guards in the NBA. Ricky Rubio tore his when he was 21, Tony Allen when he was 25.
2) Zach LaVine still has great potential.
Zach, before new year's, looked like the next best shooting guard in the entire league. He often looked like he was emerging as the dominant player among Towns and Wiggins. But Tom Thibbodeau ran him into the ground. I believe Zach LaVine was either 1 or 2 in the entire league in minutes played before the New Year. But for the past month and a half, Zach's stats had really tapered off. An ACL tear can often be an injury caused by fatigue and overuse, as mentioned by Tim Grover, who trains his clients to have the proper muscle balance.
But if you throw out the last month when it was clear that LaVine was being run into the ground, he was breaking out.
3) A dynamic skillset
Even if Zach's athleticism drops, the truth is his game won't be as impacted as say, Derrick Rose. First of all, Zach's close to being an elite 3-point shooter, at 39%. He also can pass the ball and make plays, playing a lot of point guard as a rookie before Ricky Rubio came back healthy. The last couple of years, he was moved to shooting guard as a scorer, but he still has the court vision and playmaking skills to expand his game. And the truth is, he wasn't a great in-game dunker. He wasn't going around dunking on people. He didn't rely on his jumping too much ... he is really just a dynamic player. That bodes well for him, because he won't be a limited player like Rose, who still can't shoot.
4) Elite Mental Toughness
I love this kid's attitude. He's such a hard worker. He doesn't showboat or trash talk. He goes about his business, and he's gotten better every year.
What I love best about him is watching footage of his injury. He tears his ACL midway in the third quarter, when he made an and-1 layup against Andre Drummond. He goes down and immediately feels the pain. You can tell he's hurt really bad. He walks it off. In the timeout, he says he's OK and wants to keep playing.
He stays in the game and keeps playing until the fourth quarter. He's out there playing defense, running up and down the court. Until he literally can't walk. Then he walks off on his own power.
I've never seen a player play through an ACL tear like that.
What a warrior. I love this kid. He loves to play the game, he's not a drama queen, he didn't feel sorry for himself. He's got a deep reserve of grit and toughness.
I'd totally roll the dice on him. He's up for an extension, and the T-Wolves don't really have anybody who can replace him. LaVine realistically won't be fully recovered until a full year, or 2018. We've got Jordan Clarkson, Lou Williams (tore his ACL too), Nick, Deng, etc.
This kid has the right stuff, and it might be our only opportunity to get an elite shooting guard.
1) it's not a career ender, especially because he's only 21. That's a good sign, considering that many guys who tore the ACL's at a young age still retained their athleticism. Baron Davis and Kyle Lowry tore their ACLs in college, which most people don't know, because they ended up being among the most athletic and physical guards in the NBA. Ricky Rubio tore his when he was 21, Tony Allen when he was 25.
2) Zach LaVine still has great potential.
Zach, before new year's, looked like the next best shooting guard in the entire league. He often looked like he was emerging as the dominant player among Towns and Wiggins. But Tom Thibbodeau ran him into the ground. I believe Zach LaVine was either 1 or 2 in the entire league in minutes played before the New Year. But for the past month and a half, Zach's stats had really tapered off. An ACL tear can often be an injury caused by fatigue and overuse, as mentioned by Tim Grover, who trains his clients to have the proper muscle balance.
But if you throw out the last month when it was clear that LaVine was being run into the ground, he was breaking out.
3) A dynamic skillset
Even if Zach's athleticism drops, the truth is his game won't be as impacted as say, Derrick Rose. First of all, Zach's close to being an elite 3-point shooter, at 39%. He also can pass the ball and make plays, playing a lot of point guard as a rookie before Ricky Rubio came back healthy. The last couple of years, he was moved to shooting guard as a scorer, but he still has the court vision and playmaking skills to expand his game. And the truth is, he wasn't a great in-game dunker. He wasn't going around dunking on people. He didn't rely on his jumping too much ... he is really just a dynamic player. That bodes well for him, because he won't be a limited player like Rose, who still can't shoot.
4) Elite Mental Toughness
I love this kid's attitude. He's such a hard worker. He doesn't showboat or trash talk. He goes about his business, and he's gotten better every year.
What I love best about him is watching footage of his injury. He tears his ACL midway in the third quarter, when he made an and-1 layup against Andre Drummond. He goes down and immediately feels the pain. You can tell he's hurt really bad. He walks it off. In the timeout, he says he's OK and wants to keep playing.
He stays in the game and keeps playing until the fourth quarter. He's out there playing defense, running up and down the court. Until he literally can't walk. Then he walks off on his own power.
I've never seen a player play through an ACL tear like that.
What a warrior. I love this kid. He loves to play the game, he's not a drama queen, he didn't feel sorry for himself. He's got a deep reserve of grit and toughness.
I'd totally roll the dice on him. He's up for an extension, and the T-Wolves don't really have anybody who can replace him. LaVine realistically won't be fully recovered until a full year, or 2018. We've got Jordan Clarkson, Lou Williams (tore his ACL too), Nick, Deng, etc.
This kid has the right stuff, and it might be our only opportunity to get an elite shooting guard.
“OH! Caruso parachutes in! You cannot stop him - you can only hope to contain him!” -Kevin Harlan, LAL-GSW 4/4/19
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
milesfides wrote:It's awful that this kid tore his ACL. But I think we should roll the dice and pick him up. He's worth the upside.
1) it's not a career ender, especially because he's only 21. That's a good sign, considering that many guys who tore the ACL's at a young age still retained their athleticism. Baron Davis and Kyle Lowry tore their ACLs in college, which most people don't know, because they ended up being among the most athletic and physical guards in the NBA. Ricky Rubio tore his when he was 21, Tony Allen when he was 25.
2) Zach LaVine still has great potential.
Zach, before new year's, looked like the next best shooting guard in the entire league. He often looked like he was emerging as the dominant player among Towns and Wiggins. But Tom Thibbodeau ran him into the ground. I believe Zach LaVine was either 1 or 2 in the entire league in minutes played before the New Year. But for the past month and a half, Zach's stats had really tapered off. An ACL tear can often be an injury caused by fatigue and overuse, as mentioned by Tim Grover, who trains his clients to have the proper muscle balance.
But if you throw out the last month when it was clear that LaVine was being run into the ground, he was breaking out.
3) A dynamic skillset
Even if Zach's athleticism drops, the truth is his game won't be as impacted as say, Derrick Rose. First of all, Zach's close to being an elite 3-point shooter, at 39%. He also can pass the ball and make plays, playing a lot of point guard as a rookie before Ricky Rubio came back healthy. The last couple of years, he was moved to shooting guard as a scorer, but he still has the court vision and playmaking skills to expand his game. And the truth is, he wasn't a great in-game dunker. He wasn't going around dunking on people. He didn't rely on his jumping too much ... he is really just a dynamic player. That bodes well for him, because he won't be a limited player like Rose, who still can't shoot.
4) Elite Mental Toughness
I love this kid's attitude. He's such a hard worker. He doesn't showboat or trash talk. He goes about his business, and he's gotten better every year.
What I love best about him is watching footage of his injury. He tears his ACL midway in the third quarter, when he made an and-1 layup against Andre Drummond. He goes down and immediately feels the pain. You can tell he's hurt really bad. He walks it off. In the timeout, he says he's OK and wants to keep playing.
He stays in the game and keeps playing until the fourth quarter. He's out there playing defense, running up and down the court. Until he literally can't walk. Then he walks off on his own power.
I've never seen a player play through an ACL tear like that.
What a warrior. I love this kid. He loves to play the game, he's not a drama queen, he didn't feel sorry for himself. He's got a deep reserve of grit and toughness.
I'd totally roll the dice on him. He's up for an extension, and the T-Wolves don't really have anybody who can replace him. LaVine realistically won't be fully recovered until a full year, or 2018. We've got Jordan Clarkson, Lou Williams (tore his ACL too), Nick, Deng, etc.
This kid has the right stuff, and it might be our only opportunity to get an elite shooting guard.
The wolves will say no, and if the Lakers wanted him they said had drafted him when they had the chance.
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
Funny how you criticize Russ so much and want Lavine, who is essentially a better version of Jordan Clarkson
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
- milesfides
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
I'm not looking to replace Russell with LaVine at all, so you're manufacturing a conflict.
Stop taking it so personally. Who cares how I feel about Russell in this thread? It's not about him.
But if you want to make that comparison, I do have every reason to criticize Russell's character while praising LaVine's. It's clearly an advantage of LaVine's, just like saying he's a better shooter than Russell. It's just a fact. It also doesn't change how much I value Russell (our best talent, and probably a future all-star). But I'm just calling it how I see it. Feel free to disagree using cogent arguments.
And yes, if we had LaVine instead of Clarkson we'd be upgrading our talent...that's the point. None of our guards (aside from Russell) have shown they actually have all-star potential.
Stop taking it so personally. Who cares how I feel about Russell in this thread? It's not about him.
But if you want to make that comparison, I do have every reason to criticize Russell's character while praising LaVine's. It's clearly an advantage of LaVine's, just like saying he's a better shooter than Russell. It's just a fact. It also doesn't change how much I value Russell (our best talent, and probably a future all-star). But I'm just calling it how I see it. Feel free to disagree using cogent arguments.
And yes, if we had LaVine instead of Clarkson we'd be upgrading our talent...that's the point. None of our guards (aside from Russell) have shown they actually have all-star potential.
“OH! Caruso parachutes in! You cannot stop him - you can only hope to contain him!” -Kevin Harlan, LAL-GSW 4/4/19
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
We would have to give up a lot for him. He is good and because of the dunk contest a fan favorite. I think he would come at a premium.
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
- milesfides
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
He's worth the premium, and without the injury, he'd clearly be untouchable.
But the ACL injury will undoubtedly affect his value on the market. It also came at a terrible time for both him and the T-Wolves. He's going to be eligible for a contract extension starting this summer, and he's going to be a RFA next year.
How likely is it that the Wolves and LaVine would agree on a extension as he's rehabilitating from the ACL tear? It takes a long time for most players to return to form from ACL tears. Would they give him the max? Because I'm sure LaVine believes himself to be a max player.
Also, many have pointed out that the LaVine-Wiggins-Towns trio has not exactly been great. LaVine is an aggressive player, and he does take away from Towns and Wiggins' game. Towns talent legitimately demands more of the offense run through him, and Wiggins often disappears next to LaVine, who, when healthy, emerged as their fourth quarter scorer. In December, he was 11th in the league in 4th quarter scoring, right below Jimmy Butler. But LaVine has been chomping at the bits to be the alpha, that was very clear before Thibodeau ran him into the ground. But the lack of chemistry between the three have prompted plenty of people and pundits to see LaVine as the odd man out.
The severity of the injury, the timing of it, and the less than ideal fit - all these factors help improve his availability. Nobody knows for sure of course. But if we offer the wolves a good deal? Clarkson is a young talent locked into a reasonable contract, brings a lot of what LaVine brings. Throw in a future pick, maybe give Deng back to Thibs while taking back a bad contract of their own... why wouldn't the Wolves think about it, instead of possibly losing him for nothing?
Because there's a good chance that they don't work out an extension, LaVine signs the qualifying offer and becomes unrestricted in 2019. Then we can sign him outright.
But the ACL injury will undoubtedly affect his value on the market. It also came at a terrible time for both him and the T-Wolves. He's going to be eligible for a contract extension starting this summer, and he's going to be a RFA next year.
How likely is it that the Wolves and LaVine would agree on a extension as he's rehabilitating from the ACL tear? It takes a long time for most players to return to form from ACL tears. Would they give him the max? Because I'm sure LaVine believes himself to be a max player.
Also, many have pointed out that the LaVine-Wiggins-Towns trio has not exactly been great. LaVine is an aggressive player, and he does take away from Towns and Wiggins' game. Towns talent legitimately demands more of the offense run through him, and Wiggins often disappears next to LaVine, who, when healthy, emerged as their fourth quarter scorer. In December, he was 11th in the league in 4th quarter scoring, right below Jimmy Butler. But LaVine has been chomping at the bits to be the alpha, that was very clear before Thibodeau ran him into the ground. But the lack of chemistry between the three have prompted plenty of people and pundits to see LaVine as the odd man out.
The severity of the injury, the timing of it, and the less than ideal fit - all these factors help improve his availability. Nobody knows for sure of course. But if we offer the wolves a good deal? Clarkson is a young talent locked into a reasonable contract, brings a lot of what LaVine brings. Throw in a future pick, maybe give Deng back to Thibs while taking back a bad contract of their own... why wouldn't the Wolves think about it, instead of possibly losing him for nothing?
Because there's a good chance that they don't work out an extension, LaVine signs the qualifying offer and becomes unrestricted in 2019. Then we can sign him outright.
“OH! Caruso parachutes in! You cannot stop him - you can only hope to contain him!” -Kevin Harlan, LAL-GSW 4/4/19
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
I hate to say this, but he's an even worse defender than any of our guards......
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
milesfides wrote:He's worth the premium, and without the injury, he'd clearly be untouchable.
But the ACL injury will undoubtedly affect his value on the market. It also came at a terrible time for both him and the T-Wolves. He's going to be eligible for a contract extension starting this summer, and he's going to be a RFA next year.
How likely is it that the Wolves and LaVine would agree on a extension as he's rehabilitating from the ACL tear? It takes a long time for most players to return to form from ACL tears. Would they give him the max? Because I'm sure LaVine believes himself to be a max player.
Also, many have pointed out that the LaVine-Wiggins-Towns trio has not exactly been great. LaVine is an aggressive player, and he does take away from Towns and Wiggins' game. Towns talent legitimately demands more of the offense run through him, and Wiggins often disappears next to LaVine, who, when healthy, emerged as their fourth quarter scorer. In December, he was 11th in the league in 4th quarter scoring, right below Jimmy Butler. But LaVine has been chomping at the bits to be the alpha, that was very clear before Thibodeau ran him into the ground. But the lack of chemistry between the three have prompted plenty of people and pundits to see LaVine as the odd man out.
The severity of the injury, the timing of it, and the less than ideal fit - all these factors help improve his availability. Nobody knows for sure of course. But if we offer the wolves a good deal? Clarkson is a young talent locked into a reasonable contract, brings a lot of what LaVine brings. Throw in a future pick, maybe give Deng back to Thibs while taking back a bad contract of their own... why wouldn't the Wolves think about it, instead of possibly losing him for nothing?
Because there's a good chance that they don't work out an extension, LaVine signs the qualifying offer and becomes unrestricted in 2019. Then we can sign him outright.
There's no way Minnesota would accept a Luol Deng, Jordan Clarkson and a couple second rounders for a bad a contract and Levine trade. If that's as much as it costs, sign me up and I'll do the trade right now as he's injured.

Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
I get what you're saying, he's crippled and he'll be easier to steal because he can't move very fast. However, I'm not sure if there will be a market for him after we steal him because the market won't buy such a public, illegal thing.
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go pens - pirates - steelers - lakers
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
Marionettetc wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1335983
Worst poster on the board by a mile
and yet, You guys made him a MOD
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
TylersLakers wrote:There's no way Minnesota would accept a Luol Deng, Jordan Clarkson and a couple second rounders for a bad a contract and Levine trade. If that's as much as it costs, sign me up and I'll do the trade right now as he's injured.
Not a couple second rounders, not sure where you got that...I meant a future first.
“OH! Caruso parachutes in! You cannot stop him - you can only hope to contain him!” -Kevin Harlan, LAL-GSW 4/4/19
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
Marionettetc wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1335983
Worst poster on the board by a mile
Watch the personal attacks. You can say that's the worst posts ever and possibly could be right, but you cannot call miles names like "worst poster on the board".

Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
Danny Darko wrote:Marionettetc wrote:http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1335983
Worst poster on the board by a mile
Watch the personal attacks. You can say that's the worst posts ever and possibly could be right, but you cannot call miles names like "worst poster on the board".
Miles is no where near the "worst poster on the board." One of the best and one of my favorites in Real GM history.
As far as the picks, when is the next 1st rounder we'd be able to trade? 2021? That's why I assumed it would be a couple second rounders.

Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
I'd be onboard with trading a package centered around Russell for Lavine + filler.
Russell + Randle for Lavine + filler (Rubio to a 3rd team and assets going to LA).
Lakers take Lonzo Ball with the #2 pick. Get a UCLA backcourt.
Ball/Lavine/Ingram/Nance/Zubac. We'd be set.
Russell + Randle for Lavine + filler (Rubio to a 3rd team and assets going to LA).
Lakers take Lonzo Ball with the #2 pick. Get a UCLA backcourt.
Ball/Lavine/Ingram/Nance/Zubac. We'd be set.
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
This team needs two things.
1) A High flyer
2) An allstar/superstar player who can close out games.
I'm down for this but it depends what we have to give up for it? Not sure about JC as I'm a fan more then Dlo at this point.
And who knows if this kid will recover fully?
Edit: Russell would suit better with wolves then JC ... Russell would throw passes to both Towns/Wiggins easily and they'd actually catch them other then our players lol
1) A High flyer
2) An allstar/superstar player who can close out games.
I'm down for this but it depends what we have to give up for it? Not sure about JC as I'm a fan more then Dlo at this point.
And who knows if this kid will recover fully?
Edit: Russell would suit better with wolves then JC ... Russell would throw passes to both Towns/Wiggins easily and they'd actually catch them other then our players lol
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
You know what, yeah sure we should at least consider this if the price isn't too high.
Like if they're asking for Russell or Ingram forget it but if its any other piece we could at least consider it (i mean if its Clarkson and Williams i'd say no brainer for us really).
Running Russell and Lavine in the backcourt i think is a more dynamic version of what we have now and Lavine is more explosive than Clarkson which makes this better. Plus Lavine has been a pretty good shooter.
Like if they're asking for Russell or Ingram forget it but if its any other piece we could at least consider it (i mean if its Clarkson and Williams i'd say no brainer for us really).
Running Russell and Lavine in the backcourt i think is a more dynamic version of what we have now and Lavine is more explosive than Clarkson which makes this better. Plus Lavine has been a pretty good shooter.
Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
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Re: Let's Steal Zach LaVine
What is your proposed trade for Lavine? I don't see a workable trade unless it includes a top 3 draft pick and another kid.