So what is the issue with playing DLo off ball with Lonzo Ball?

RingsDontLie · Post #1 » by **RingsDontLie** » Thu May 18, 2017 7:16 am

Just seems like a good match to me. Everyone was clamoring Russell should play more off ball, and he has shown he can.

Here is my issue. With both of these two on the court at the same time, we are talking about having two guys in the back court with elite vision playing a running game with Luke Walton. Not only that we are talking about having two dead eye shooters in the back court in a fast paced transition game with Ball moving it up to the court to hit Russell in the corner...along with a high speed PF in Randle and a 1-3 guy like Ingram that can also run the floor with them. I think Russell is a great shooter even if the stats are not on his side yet.

But I can already see Russell becoming a great SG with Lonzo.

If small ball is the goal here, Lonzo, Russell, Ingram, and Randle are four guys that can run the fast break. Put Zubac in there for rebounds and you are done.

danfantastk32 · Post #2 » by **danfantastk32** » Thu May 18, 2017 8:07 am

I think people have 2 main issues (but for the record I would like to see this given a shot as well):

1) Defense. My response is what defense? Tonight's game was 117 to 104. Last night GS hung half a million points on 'gods gift to balanced teams' ....so whatever to defense. Just don't be totally sh**y, and your gonna be around the middle of the pack. Weren't Houston like #16 with Harden and D'antoni running the show? My point exactly.

2) The average fg% in the NBA last year was .457, and DLO is well below that. I think he's right at the exact average for 3-pointers. So your looking at a 'below average shooter' for your SG. Will playing off ball allow him to take more open shots? We'll see. I don't remember feeling like Russell took a ton of forced shots in traffic. He had plenty of nice looks throughout a game.

I think it's worth a shot myself......but there are some issues with it, as I pointed out. The main one for me is DLo's shooting. He will want to up both percentages considerably if they want to be a deadly combo.

Biased_Fan6425 · Post #3 » by **Biased_Fan6425** » Thu May 18, 2017 8:26 am

Great offense wins you meaningless games but great defense wins you championships.

I really like DLo but if we get Ball then we need to trade Dlo while he has value.

Ball will be giving us what DLo does but probable better. We already know how DLo plays and it's not that bad but not that good either. So the time to cash in is now. (included mozgod or deng if possible)

2 very similar players. So I take who I think is going to be better which is Ball.

Post #4 » by **Slava** » Thu May 18, 2017 9:04 am

Lavar's opinion: https://streamable.com/7e9mm

Pythagoras · Post #5 » by **Pythagoras** » Thu May 18, 2017 9:52 am

Ball and D'Lo are not even remotely similar players. There are some things they do that overlap but they aren't the same at all. Ball is exactly the type of backcourt mate you would want for Russell. The team's biggest defensive, and offensive issues, that came out of the backcourt originated from Clarkson. By like, a good margin.

Unless the Pacers or Bulls are willing to take one of Deng or Mozgov in a PG or Butler for D'Lo trade, then there's not really any trade that's going to be worth your time.

So I guess you could consider:

D'Lo + Deng or Mozgov for PG
D'Lo + Deng or Mozgov for Butler

Personally I'm not too keen on trading away a 21 year old 2nd year guard who put up 18.5/5 with a 15.5 PER after the AS break.

ROballer · Post #6 » by **ROballer** » Thu May 18, 2017 11:55 am

Biased_Fan6425 wrote:Great offense wins you meaningless games but great defense wins you championships.

That's such a overblown statement it's not even funny anymore.

Take any defensive stud you like, Roberson, Tony Allen, Thabo, etc and pair him with Ball in the backourt.

I guarantee Ball + Russell does better success wise every single time, and it's not close.

Michael Lucky · Post #7 » by **Michael Lucky** » Thu May 18, 2017 12:29 pm

ROballer wrote:
Biased_Fan6425 wrote:Great offense wins you meaningless games but great defense wins you championships.

That's such a overblown statement it's not even funny anymore.

Take any defensive stud you like, Roberson, Tony Allen, Thabo, etc and pair him with Ball in the backourt.

I guarantee Ball + Russell does better success wise every single time, and it's not close.

to add on to that. Doesn't matter if you had an all defensive team. GSW and Cleveland would still score a billion points.

MrWaffles · Post #8 » by **MrWaffles** » Thu May 18, 2017 12:34 pm

Pythagoras wrote:Ball and D'Lo are not even remotely similar players. There are some things they do that overlap but they aren't the same at all. Ball is exactly the type of backcourt mate you would want for Russell. The team's biggest defensive, and offensive issues, that came out of the backcourt originated from Clarkson. By like, a good margin.

Unless the Pacers or Bulls are willing to take one of Deng or Mozgov in a PG or Butler for D'Lo trade, then there's not really any trade that's going to be worth your time.

So I guess you could consider:

D'Lo + Deng or Mozgov for PG
D'Lo + Deng or Mozgov for Butler

Personally I'm not too keen on trading away a 21 year old 2nd year guard who put up 18.5/5 with a 15.5 PER after the AS break.

Thank you. We don't trade Russell. He's shown he can play, Ball hasn't. Trade the pick or choose someone else. Ball and Russell more than likely won't work out on BOTH ends.

meetbishop · Post #9 » by **meetbishop** » Thu May 18, 2017 12:38 pm

Slava wrote:Lavar's opinion: https://streamable.com/7e9mm

I have a love hate relationship for Lavar but I think he is right tho.

ak7 · Post #10 » by **ak7** » Thu May 18, 2017 12:41 pm

ROballer wrote:
Biased_Fan6425 wrote:Great offense wins you meaningless games but great defense wins you championships.

That's such a overblown statement it's not even funny anymore.

Take any defensive stud you like, Roberson, Tony Allen, Thabo, etc and pair him with Ball in the backourt.

I guarantee Ball + Russell does better success wise every single time, and it's not close.

So you trust a Ball/Russell backcourt to get you a possession back late in game 7 with the championship on the line?

Post #11 » by **Slava** » Thu May 18, 2017 12:51 pm

meetbishop wrote:
Slava wrote:Lavar's opinion: https://streamable.com/7e9mm

I have a love hate relationship for Lavar but I think he is right tho.

Sooner did he realize his son is going to the Lakers, he started showing up in a suit rather than a XXXL shirt and basketball shorts.

Pythagoras · Post #12 » by **Pythagoras** » Thu May 18, 2017 1:23 pm

ROballer wrote:
Biased_Fan6425 wrote:Great offense wins you meaningless games but great defense wins you championships.

That's such a overblown statement it's not even funny anymore.

Take any defensive stud you like, Roberson, Tony Allen, Thabo, etc and pair him with Ball in the backourt.

I guarantee Ball + Russell does better success wise every single time, and it's not close.

Agreed. Great defensive bigs are far more important to team defensive success than guards. Truth be told so are wings. If Ingram and Zubac end up being defensive studs. No one is going to notice the backcourt D. Of course, I take all the criticism of Ball's D with a grain of salt anyway.

Spens1 · Post #13 » by **Spens1** » Thu May 18, 2017 1:28 pm

Slava wrote:Lavar's opinion: https://streamable.com/7e9mm

- we make the playoffs
- Ingram becomes a 25-30PPG player
- D'Angelo will be the best 2
- Randle will get a rebound every possession

Lavar is legit a used car salesman.

iamworthy · Post #14 » by **iamworthy** » Thu May 18, 2017 1:29 pm

I don't see a problem with Russell and lonzo playing together. On paper it seems awesome.

ALL HAIL · Post #15 » by **ALL HAIL** » Thu May 18, 2017 1:50 pm

Are people actually arguing that defense isn't all that important (except at center)?

Is that out-the-box thinking, or is it just plain ignorant?

Ball and Russell are fine offensively. They're also adequate defensively (Ball is not the sieve he's made out to be). But saying defense doesn't matter (for guards) is just asinine. I respect people's opinions, but, respectfully, if you feel this way, you're just plain wrong.

J_LA · Post #16 » by **J_LA** » Thu May 18, 2017 1:52 pm

Biased_Fan6425 wrote:Great offense wins you meaningless games but great defense wins you championships.

I really like DLo but if we get Ball then we need to trade Dlo while he has value.

Ball will be giving us what DLo does but probable better. We already know how DLo plays and it's not that bad but not that good either. So the time to cash in is now. (included mozgod or deng if possible)

2 very similar players. So I take who I think is going to be better which is Ball.

So you don't envision Dlo improving anymore? He is a finished product at age 20?

Imo the only thing similar about them is they both have a great feel for the game. Also, trading D'angelo before you know what you have in Ball wouldn't be very smart. Ball could very well end up being the best player in this draft but like 90% of the young players in this league it will take time.

Post #17 » by **Goudelock** » Thu May 18, 2017 2:13 pm

ak7 wrote:
ROballer wrote:
Biased_Fan6425 wrote:Great offense wins you meaningless games but great defense wins you championships.

That's such a overblown statement it's not even funny anymore.

Take any defensive stud you like, Roberson, Tony Allen, Thabo, etc and pair him with Ball in the backourt.

I guarantee Ball + Russell does better success wise every single time, and it's not close.

So you trust a Ball/Russell backcourt to get you a possession back late in game 7 with the championship on the line?

I don't think that they're getting to a championship series anytime soon, so that's not too important at the moment.

And this isn't addressed to you in particular, but who knows if Lonzo Ball will even be any good? No point in getting rid of your somewhat proven young guard so you can hand over the reigns to a completely unproven prospect.

Post #18 » by **Duke4life831** » Thu May 18, 2017 2:18 pm

Im coming from an outside opinion but watched a solid amount of your games last year (because of Ingram) and have seen plenty of Lonzo for 2+ years. I see no issue at all with those two playing together. If anything its a match made in heaven, especially from Russell's stand point. Russell does have really good vision but you can tell he has a score first mentality and it almost felt like he was fighting against that mentality to try and be the primary facilitator.

Ball comes in and automatically you have a PG with some of the best vision and passing in the NBA and a guy that is truly a pass first PG. That slides Russell over to the 2 and allows him to be more who he is and that is a scorer first that has great vision. Also if youre talking about defense, Ball is a better defender than Fultz or DSJ and today's game is all about being able to switch. Youre going to have a massive 1-3 with Ball, Russell and Ingram. Ingram is going to be your main perimeter defender, Ball can take the 2nd best and Russell can take the 3rd and they can all switch.

I know Lavar can be a hard pill to swallow but I think Lonzo is a match made in heaven for you guys on the court.

Post #19 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Thu May 18, 2017 2:20 pm

ak7 wrote:
ROballer wrote:
Biased_Fan6425 wrote:Great offense wins you meaningless games but great defense wins you championships.

That's such a overblown statement it's not even funny anymore.

Take any defensive stud you like, Roberson, Tony Allen, Thabo, etc and pair him with Ball in the backourt.

I guarantee Ball + Russell does better success wise every single time, and it's not close.

So you trust a Ball/Russell backcourt to get you a possession back late in game 7 with the championship on the line?

Let's get to the playoffs first before we start sucking each other's Lavar Balls.

ak7 · Post #20 » by **ak7** » Thu May 18, 2017 2:21 pm

snaquille oatmeal wrote:
ak7 wrote:
ROballer wrote:

That's such a overblown statement it's not even funny anymore.

Take any defensive stud you like, Roberson, Tony Allen, Thabo, etc and pair him with Ball in the backourt.

I guarantee Ball + Russell does better success wise every single time, and it's not close.

So you trust a Ball/Russell backcourt to get you a possession back late in game 7 with the championship on the line?

Let's get to the playoffs first before we start sucking each other's Lavar's Balls.

I'd prefer to never go to the playoffs with that backcourt because we will get obliterated with it.