Playoffs probably not.... In the East? Hmmm....

[VIPER8382]

record last year with Russell was 20-42 for a .323 win pct
without Russell 6-16 for a .300 win pct
82 game pace with Russell = 26.4
82 game pace without Russell = 24.6
So Russell got us an extra 2 wins over an 82 game season.
*Note I counted the 1 minute appearance against Indiana as a DNP

[Michael Lucky]

Since this is the route we are going.

Brooklyn with Lin were 13-20
Brooklyn without Lin were 7-42.

[VIPER8382]

So please look at those 4 posts to show team records with and without the dynamic trio of Williams, Russell, and Young vs the single one of Brook Lopez and tell me that we are worse. I have shown that we were at best 3 games better with the departed trio vs without. So now replace those 3 with Lopez, KCP, and Ball instead of below replacement level players and account for improvement of our returning youngsters and we are undeniably a much better team, but due to increased competition, I don't expect Playoffs, and possibly even 10 extra wins will be a stretch, but expect a much, much more competitive team.

[Michael Lucky]

That isn't how it works.

[VIPER8382]

Since this is the route we are going.

Brooklyn with Lin were 13-20
Brooklyn without Lin were 7-42.

You are killing your own argument here, you are showing just how bad that team was that a player like Jeremy Lin could help that much. So how on earth do you expect Lopez to lead them to anything.

It is a PG league, so obviously the Nets were much better when you added Lin to Lopez, and without Lin they had nothing resembling an NBA level PG. Also still of note, Lin didn't win a single game without Lopez. So now when we put Lopez on an absurdly bad team, but just give him an NBA level PG his team is now 13-17 or 43.3% win percentage. That would have put them at 10th or 11th in the East depending on how many of those extra wins came at the Pistons' expense.

[Michael Lucky]

No but according to your own argument Lin >>>> Lopez.

[VIPER8382]

No but according to your own argument Lin >>>> Lopez.

No, not at all, because a PG controls so much on offense that his on/off difference will be insanely inflated when he has a d-league back up.

Even if we ignore that, in the right setting Lin has proven to be a star in this league, and you have also now proven that Lin is immeasurably better than any of your 3 missing "studs".

[VIPER8382]

When Lin was out all of the PG minutes were filled by Spencer Dinwiddie and Isaiah Whitehead, I mean come on, it is a miracle that Lopez was able to get them to 7 wins in 45 games with those guys running the offense, lol.

[Ball so hard]

We're a 23-25 win team. No shooting and poor defense at the majority of our positions. Our best player led his team to 20 wins last year and we lost our three best offensive players. Not sure how we'd make the playoffs in the East even with weaker competition.

dlo, young, black, ennis, and mozgov were replaced by lonzo, kcp, lopez, kuzma, bryant, and hart.

are you saying we're a worst team than last year?

Yes there's a very good chance that we are. Especially since Lou and Russell are currently better players than everyone on that list except for maybe Lopez. Heck you can make an argument for Young as well. Also can't be overstated that we'll be much easier to defend considering our serious lack of spacing.

I don't think you believe what you wrote. Even if the talent level in the current year is marginally less (I don't necessarily agree), I still expect an increase in the win column given that we clearly tried to tank for a stretch of games last year. Do you recall some of the lineups that were on the floor at times?

If you're only looking at the offensive side of things, then sure, Lou was probably better than KCP. Russel was neither better than Lopez nor KCP; i'm sure some stat nerd will find some stat to show otherwise.

I think you're overstating how much easier we will be to defend. Ball movement is expected to greatly improve; this alone should diminish some of the potential spacing issues.

Your argument is very flawed. You assume zero improvement from current players, places zero value to chemistry, zero improvement from coaching staff, little to no value on improved defense, etc. You merely point out that we lost our three best offensive player and should therefore be a worse team.

[Ball so hard]

There is a huge difference between adding wins and getting a team to the playoffs. Many rookies add wins to their team, but few are capable of leading a high lotto team to the Playoffs.

There is no center in the league that was going to lead the Nets to anything more than a bottom 5 finish last year, that roster was just plain dreadful. It was the best tank roster yet outside of Brook, but thanks to King it was to Boston's benefit.

Here is my breakdown on each position:

PG - Ball in for Russell. I am a huge Russell fan, but I feel that this is a small gain for the Lakers comparing last year's Russell to this year's Ball. I don't expect Ball to be quite the scorer that Russell was, but expect quite an uptick in creating for others. Also Russell for whatever reason didn't do much better than replacement level as far as scoring for the season as a whole.

SG - KCP/Clarkson in for Williams/Clarkson. I again expect a drop off here from a scoring standpoint, but due to Ball I expect it to be minimized, and keep in mind that we didn't even have Williams for the entire season. I don't expect a huge amount from Clarkson, but expect him to be a little bit improved this season. Then when we add in defense we are now talking about enormous gains here. I consider this to be another gain overall.

SF - Ingram/Deng in for Young/Ingram/Deng. This is the wild card, because Young was actually a pretty good player last year out of nowhere, but we didn't have him all season either as he got shut down. Then there was Ingram who was actually pretty bad last year and Deng who was pretty injured and then shut down also. I think we all expect a lot out of Ingram this year, but how much more than last year is the question. Will it be enough to offset a good Young and a bad him last year. Will Deng redeem himself in year 2? I am going to call this one a bit of a downgrade, but with the potential to be a gain, possibly even a pretty big gain.

PF - Randle/Nance for both. I expect a small gain here from both of them improving with another year of experience and the Ball effect.

C - Lopez/Zubac in for Mozgov/Black/Zubac. I don't have to say anything more than the following, this is a huge, huge improvement.

Coaching - Walton again for both. I expect him to be better in his 2nd season as the full time man, and 2nd with much of this group.

Competition - The West was tough last season, but now it is beyond insane.

I think the Lakers are clearly a much better team, and will be even more improved than their record will indicate due to an even tougher schedule, but I stand behind my prediction of 8 to 12 more wins, so I will split the difference and say 10.

Agree with just about everything you said. Minor disagreement with regard to our SF position. I think our SF position this year will be a plus. As you've alluded to, it really comes down to whether or not Ingram's performance in the current year outweighs Young's. Deng and Ingram were both so bad last year that they're performance next season can only get better. Like you've also mentioned, Young missed a significant number of games... I think this is very important.

[danfantastk32]

There is a huge difference between adding wins and getting a team to the playoffs. Many rookies add wins to their team, but few are capable of leading a high lotto team to the Playoffs.

SG - KCP/Clarkson in for Williams/Clarkson. I again expect a drop off here from a scoring standpoint, but due to Ball I expect it to be minimized, and keep in mind that we didn't even have Williams for the entire season. I don't expect a huge amount from Clarkson, but expect him to be a little bit improved this season. Then when we add in defense we are now talking about enormous gains here. I consider this to be another gain overall.

Hope your right. KCP will have to play his best season to make this happen. I think your underrating Williams. The guy was our best player, while he played last year. I personally think this will be a bit of a downgrade next season.

[Vae Victus]

The team's pieces dont really fit together imho. I'm also a Lin fan and thus followed how he did in CHA/BRK after he left the Lakers and thus watched alot of BroLo. He's a great offensive C as he can score down in the post, has some crazy dribble shamble to the bucket moves, and added a fairly reliable 3pt shot which really helped space the floor BUT he's a terrible defensive player out in space, meaning a great defender in the post but is utterly worthless in PnR situations as he's too slow and cant help the picked off guard at all.

However the thing that worries me the most is that BroLo is NOT a PnR C, he's a post up or high post attacker, and on the PnR he's just so goddamn slow its painful to watch at times. BRK realy tried to force the issue with a Brook-Lin PnR and it just didnt look good as BroLo is just too damn slow and awkward when rolling to the bucket without the ball. For whatever faults one wants to lay on Lin, he's a damn good PnR guard and if he cant make it work with BroLo i'm gonna have to worry like hell if Ball can make it work as well. I'm in the "hate DLo trade" camp with a passion and felt a Ball/DLo backcourt will work as DLo could be a secondary ball handler to relieve pressure off of Ball in case defenses decide to swarm him. DLo was doing good as a SG and that might just be his natural position (in fact with the massive disinterest in KCP by BRK, as well as not beign serious in going after Reddick or Teodosic, im betting the Nets think DLo is more a of SG). Also by adding Lonzo i thought Mozgov would get a career revival as he's a PnR big who didnt have the best PnR ballhandlers to get him the ball on his rimrums (look at the advanced stats for our guars in PnR situation, its not pretty). Lonzo being a passing maestro along with outside threat in DLo to space the floor, i thought we're gonna at least see Mozgov regain relevence and give Lonzo a great wonderful partner to set crushing screens and eat lobs to dunks

The DLo/Mozgov salary dump to me was just a terrible move. We dont know if Lonzo has what it takes to be the sole ballhandler against NBA level defenses, Mozgov was traded at absolute lowest value when there was a decent chance of him having a rebound year by playing with Lonzo, AND we lose DLo who was quite possibly blossoming into a damn good SG (although the KCP deal has taken off a huge amount of sting for DLo's loss, but still, im not totally sold on KCP either).

Instead we're gonna see BRK take full advantage of seeing what DLo can do next to a pretty good PG in Lin. Lin posted massive increases in efficiency and was chucking 3s at high volume at a good %, despite suffering and hobbling around on a bum hammy. Now we will see Mozgov play with a true PnR ballhandler in Lin and likely see him show more flashes of his DEN/CLE days instead of the bleh lump we got from him last season

I seriously think the Nets are put together way better than the Lakers, due to more experienced guards and having more shooters than us. They're gonna be a relentlessly spacing and offensive attack squad that'll toss up 3s like no tmw and steal a bunch of games they have no right to be in. I'm still so **** pissed we traded DLo, i mean, goddamn why, at least go secure PG13 before we start shipping out precious assets for salary dump deals for our forlorn chase at Lebron.

BRK is also in a horendous situation as us in being forced to give up next year 's pick to BOS, but i feel at least for next year, the'll be doing alot better than us, mostly due to DLo being allowed to be a SG fulltime and to focus on scoring, and instead of having to deal with teh drama of the Showtime Mafia dissing him at all turns (**** YOU BYRON! GO **** OFF!). Lin if he's healthy is gonna be good, feeding that rock to anyone open. If he can get Mozgov and Carroll to look like their old selves, then theyre definitely not celler dwellers anymore, DLo spacing that floor and waiting for catch and shoots instead of being forced to create his own shot all game. God what a difference..

Even if Ball impresses and Ingram makes a huge step next year, i just dont think thats enough to lure over LBJ and maybe PG13....

[Spens1]

Still not a playoff team in the east, however its safe to say with Lopez here, we should be winning around 32 games if we remain healthy.

[Pythagoras]

The team's pieces dont really fit together imho. I'm also a Lin fan and thus followed how he did in CHA/BRK after he left the Lakers and thus watched alot of BroLo. He's a great offensive C as he can score down in the post, has some crazy dribble shamble to the bucket moves, and added a fairly reliable 3pt shot which really helped space the floor BUT he's a terrible defensive player out in space, meaning a great defender in the post but is utterly worthless in PnR situations as he's too slow and cant help the picked off guard at all.

However the thing that worries me the most is that BroLo is NOT a PnR C, he's a post up or high post attacker, and on the PnR he's just so goddamn slow its painful to watch at times. BRK realy tried to force the issue with a Brook-Lin PnR and it just didnt look good as BroLo is just too damn slow and awkward when rolling to the bucket without the ball. For whatever faults one wants to lay on Lin, he's a damn good PnR guard and if he cant make it work with BroLo i'm gonna have to worry like hell if Ball can make it work as well. I'm in the "hate DLo trade" camp with a passion and felt a Ball/DLo backcourt will work as DLo could be a secondary ball handler to relieve pressure off of Ball in case defenses decide to swarm him. DLo was doing good as a SG and that might just be his natural position (in fact with the massive disinterest in KCP by BRK, as well as not beign serious in going after Reddick or Teodosic, im betting the Nets think DLo is more a of SG). Also by adding Lonzo i thought Mozgov would get a career revival as he's a PnR big who didnt have the best PnR ballhandlers to get him the ball on his rimrums (look at the advanced stats for our guars in PnR situation, its not pretty). Lonzo being a passing maestro along with outside threat in DLo to space the floor, i thought we're gonna at least see Mozgov regain relevence and give Lonzo a great wonderful partner to set crushing screens and eat lobs to dunks

The DLo/Mozgov salary dump to me was just a terrible move. We dont know if Lonzo has what it takes to be the sole ballhandler against NBA level defenses, Mozgov was traded at absolute lowest value when there was a decent chance of him having a rebound year by playing with Lonzo, AND we lose DLo who was quite possibly blossoming into a damn good SG (although the KCP deal has taken off a huge amount of sting for DLo's loss, but still, im not totally sold on KCP either).

Instead we're gonna see BRK take full advantage of seeing what DLo can do next to a pretty good PG in Lin. Lin posted massive increases in efficiency and was chucking 3s at high volume at a good %, despite suffering and hobbling around on a bum hammy. Now we will see Mozgov play with a true PnR ballhandler in Lin and likely see him show more flashes of his DEN/CLE days instead of the bleh lump we got from him last season

I seriously think the Nets are put together way better than the Lakers, due to more experienced guards and having more shooters than us. They're gonna be a relentlessly spacing and offensive attack squad that'll toss up 3s like no tmw and steal a bunch of games they have no right to be in. I'm still so **** pissed we traded DLo, i mean, goddamn why, at least go secure PG13 before we start shipping out precious assets for salary dump deals for our forlorn chase at Lebron.

BRK is also in a horendous situation as us in being forced to give up next year 's pick to BOS, but i feel at least for next year, the'll be doing alot better than us, mostly due to DLo being allowed to be a SG fulltime and to focus on scoring, and instead of having to deal with teh drama of the Showtime Mafia dissing him at all turns (**** YOU BYRON! GO **** OFF!). Lin if he's healthy is gonna be good, feeding that rock to anyone open. If he can get Mozgov and Carroll to look like their old selves, then theyre definitely not celler dwellers anymore, DLo spacing that floor and waiting for catch and shoots instead of being forced to create his own shot all game. God what a difference..

Even if Ball impresses and Ingram makes a huge step next year, i just dont think thats enough to lure over LBJ and maybe PG13....

Completely agree with everything.

The issue with this team is, the talent is likely better due to internal growth, but the pieces are a bad fit still.
The floor spacing is not good.
The interior defense is awful.
One of the top 3 scorers on this team is an inefficient black hole...

Now, there's some REALLY BAD teams in East, and there may be some stealth tanking going on with a couple teams out West that the Lakers don't have to engage in as well. From that perspective, this team could get to 30+ wins but make no mistake, this is still a very bad basketball team.

[Spanish_Laker]

The same thread every single year at this point yet we finish the seasons under the 30-win mark...

[ISayshowmee]

We're a 23-25 win team. No shooting and poor defense at the majority of our positions. Our best player led his team to 20 wins last year and we lost our three best offensive players. Not sure how we'd make the playoffs in the East even with weaker competition.

What ? You are projecting this team to be worse than last year ? I have read enough......

[Michael Lucky]

The same thread every single year at this point yet we finish the seasons under the 30-win mark...

yes and every single year people get mad at those that project the low number of wins. I remember projecting around the 25 win mark last year. I got excited with the good start and thought we'd win around 33.

Problem is the team is way too young to win many games. It's not a bad thing, it's just expected.

[Spanish_Laker]

The same thread every single year at this point yet we finish the seasons under the 30-win mark...

yes and every single year people get mad at those that project the low number of wins. I remember projecting around the 25 win mark last year. I got excited with the good start and thought we'd win around 33.

Problem is the team is way too young to win many games. It's not a bad thing, it's just expected.

On the bright side, the team won't tank this year. We've got no pick, then the team will try hard to win more than 35 games this season.