Expectations for Ingram's scoring this season

[Spens1]

I agree he had a "big step" second season. I do think he's nearing the top of his scoring potential however. The way he scored has a lot to do with my thoughts on that as he scored primarily off fast breaks and dribble drives. If/when we widen the talent on this team this offseason I'm not sure he'll be getting the reps in isolation or the sets he increased those number with. Unless he develops a catch and shoot skill (didn't see much of that this year) he could score less next year but maybe be more efficient.

His all around game improvement was more impressive than his scoring IMHO.

I sure hope not or else we ended up with Tobias Harris basically.

[LALifer49]

I agree he had a "big step" second season. I do think he's nearing the top of his scoring potential however. The way he scored has a lot to do with my thoughts on that as he scored primarily off fast breaks and dribble drives. If/when we widen the talent on this team this offseason I'm not sure he'll be getting the reps in isolation or the sets he increased those number with. Unless he develops a catch and shoot skill (didn't see much of that this year) he could score less next year but maybe be more efficient.

His all around game improvement was more impressive than his scoring IMHO.

I disagree. While adding more talent may take away some of his scoring opportunities, it doesn't limit his scoring potential. Your scoring potential is the number of ways you can be able to score, so saying he's nearing the top of his scoring potential means the only ways he'll be able to score are mainly from fast breaks and dribble drives. However, I think he has the potential to have a complete offensive arsenal. He slowly but surely ramped up his 3 pt shooting as the season wore on, and his %s climbed as the volume rose. He also improved his ft shooting 7% from his rookie year. Remember that before getting injured in the Miami game, he was scoring far above season average on great efficiency for a sustained stretch. I think he can improve his shooting, which will increase his scoring potential by itself, and also give him more opportunities to drive more effectively. And if he improves his ft%...well there is even more potential. So yes, avenues for scoring improvement for Ingram=improved shooting, more open driving lanes, improved ft%. Now you can say having more talent around him may limit his raw numbers, but the opportunities for improving his scoring arsenal and thus scoring potential are still there.

[Landsberger]

I agree he had a "big step" second season. I do think he's nearing the top of his scoring potential however. The way he scored has a lot to do with my thoughts on that as he scored primarily off fast breaks and dribble drives. If/when we widen the talent on this team this offseason I'm not sure he'll be getting the reps in isolation or the sets he increased those number with. Unless he develops a catch and shoot skill (didn't see much of that this year) he could score less next year but maybe be more efficient.

His all around game improvement was more impressive than his scoring IMHO.

I disagree. While adding more talent may take away some of his scoring opportunities, it doesn't limit his scoring potential. Your scoring potential is the number of ways you can be able to score, so saying he's nearing the top of his scoring potential means the only ways he'll be able to score are mainly from fast breaks and dribble drives. However, I think he has the potential to have a complete offensive arsenal. He slowly but surely ramped up his 3 pt shooting as the season wore on, and his %s climbed as the volume rose. He also improved his ft shooting 7% from his rookie year. Remember that before getting injured in the Miami game, he was scoring far above season average on great efficiency for a sustained stretch. I think he can improve his shooting, which will increase his scoring potential by itself, and also give him more opportunities to drive more effectively. And if he improves his ft%...well there is even more potential. So yes, avenues for scoring improvement for Ingram=improved shooting, more open driving lanes, improved ft%. Now you can say having more talent around him may limit his raw numbers, but the opportunities for improving his scoring arsenal and thus scoring potential are still there.

Sounds a lot like what I said. Fewer opportunities but better one. Thus higher efficiency.

As for FT's. I have little patience for this with professionals. He tanked at least 3 games this year with some very un-clutch FT shooting. As for his improved shooting.... it's a lot like Randle's in that he made shots at a high rate where he's been good and didn't take as many shots from where he isn't. His shooting % by distance didn't change much however the volume of where he took his shots did. He only took half as many 3's this year thus that will improve your overall %. He increased his shots at the basket by quite a bit and made a few more in % terms so that increases the % as well. He was not very good from 3-10' at all at 20% shooting. He shot 14% more from 2 point range than he did last year.

I still think he's a 3rd option type on a true contender at this point. I don't see a guy who can impose his will on a defense and get a big bucket in a close game against top competition. His offensive diversification is still pretty limited.

[No name]

While he may have shot less threes his make percentage went up. It's not just the balance of shooting less threes raising his average.

[Landsberger]

While he may have shot less threes his make percentage went up. It's not just the balance of shooting less threes raising his average.

He took mostly open 3's this year while last year he was shooting them in many situations. He also tweaked his outside shot and started making them when he took them.

As for your comment about taking less 3's tasing his average. Not sure I follow.... he took 10% more shots from 0-3 feet where he shot 67% and fewer from 3 where he shot 39%. Not sure how shooting more from an area where you shoot below your overall % raises your %.

[Duke4life831]

I think he improved in some of the most important areas for a scorer. He saw significant raises in efficiency from the FT line, 3pt line and at the rim. Those are the money areas for efficient scorers. He was an 80% FT shooter in high school so with his improvement there, I have little doubt he will be near that 80% mark in a season or two. The rise to 67% finishing at the rim is huge, for comparison Jimmy Butler has only done that twice in his career and this season was Paul George first time doing it. So even if he doesnt improve anymore in that area hes already on a good level. But Im sure growing into his body a little more and getting stronger, I think a little more improvement in that area isnt far fetched.

Even with the less amount of attempts, you have to be impressed with the 10% increase from 3. And its not like he took a lot more corner 3s this year compared to last year which couldve helped his %, he actually took less corner 3s by a significant margin. Another summer working on that jumper, Im curious if he can stay around that 39% clip but take around 2.5-3 attempts next year.

The dude is a 6-9 dude with a handle that can attack and finish at the rim. I think prime Ingram is going to be a 25-7-5 on good efficiency, 2 way type of player. I was very impressed with his improvement this year.

[Duke4life831]

Wing players 2nd seasons:

Player A:
12/6/1 on 49/37/82

Player B:
12/5/2 on 44/38/80

Player C (3rd season):
13/5/2 on 39/28/77

Player D:
12/6/2 on 49/16/74

Player E:
17/4/2 on 46/9/81

Player F:
12/3/3 on 45/34/83

Player G:
16/5/4 on 47/39/68

Player A is Kawhi, B is George, C is Butler, D is Giannis, E is DeRozan, F is Hayward and G is Ingram.

Now obviously raw stats dont tell the whole story. But these are the numbers the best wings in the game not named Durant and Lebron were putting up in their 2nd year. Then take into consideration a lot of these guys were either older or definitely much more physically mature compared to Ingram. He may not end up as a top 10 all time type talent, but the guy is definitely showing the potential and progression of a guy capable of being a top 10 player while he is playing.

[stan francisco]

In Luke’s system, it’s scorring by committee. And with Lonzo at the point we might have a different highest scorer in each game. I’d personally rather see 6 players scoring 12 in every game than seeing one of them jack it up and score 30. There will be 30 point games by BI, and Randle, and Kuzma, but I foresee the Lakers sporting an even scoring load across the roster. And I trust that Ball and Luke will get everyone involved to help the best they can with the W-L column.

[Landsberger]

In Luke’s system, it’s scorring by committee. And with Lonzo at the point we might have a different highest scorer in each game. I’d personally rather see 6 players scoring 12 in every game than seeing one of them jack it up and score 30. There will be 30 point games by BI, and Randle, and Kuzma, but I foresee the Lakers sporting an even scoring load across the roster. And I trust that Ball and Luke will get everyone involved to help the best they can with the W-L column.

I'd personally rather see more than 35 wins. Trotting the same crew out there and hoping that everyone of them progresses to the maximum of the potential curve is very unrealistic. We need a central scorer that you can count on who gets at least 20-22ppg. Sure he doesn't have to the be the high scorer every night but the scoring by committee thing doesn't work when you get to the playoffs. I can't think of a team in my history of watching the game that has had a group of guys scoring 16ppg that's shown any consistency in the post season.

[stan francisco]

In Luke’s system, it’s scorring by committee. And with Lonzo at the point we might have a different highest scorer in each game. I’d personally rather see 6 players scoring 12 in every game than seeing one of them jack it up and score 30. There will be 30 point games by BI, and Randle, and Kuzma, but I foresee the Lakers sporting an even scoring load across the roster. And I trust that Ball and Luke will get everyone involved to help the best they can with the W-L column.

I'd personally rather see more than 35 wins. Trotting the same crew out there and hoping that everyone of them progresses to the maximum of the potential curve is very unrealistic. We need a central scorer that you can count on who gets at least 20-22ppg. Sure he doesn't have to the be the high scorer every night but the scoring by committee thing doesn't work when you get to the playoffs. I can't think of a team in my history of watching the game that has had a group of guys scoring 16ppg that's shown any consistency in the post season.

I think we had 9 players in double figures in a few games right before injuries. Looked hard to beat.

[TylersLakers]

Prediction: 16.5 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 3.5 APG, 1.2 SPG, 0.8 BPG, 44% FG, 32% 3PT, 74% FT

Ingram's actual stat line: 16.1 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 3.9 APG

[Penberthy]

In Luke’s system, it’s scorring by committee. And with Lonzo at the point we might have a different highest scorer in each game. I’d personally rather see 6 players scoring 12 in every game than seeing one of them jack it up and score 30. There will be 30 point games by BI, and Randle, and Kuzma, but I foresee the Lakers sporting an even scoring load across the roster. And I trust that Ball and Luke will get everyone involved to help the best they can with the W-L column.

I'd personally rather see more than 35 wins. Trotting the same crew out there and hoping that everyone of them progresses to the maximum of the potential curve is very unrealistic. We need a central scorer that you can count on who gets at least 20-22ppg. Sure he doesn't have to the be the high scorer every night but the scoring by committee thing doesn't work when you get to the playoffs. I can't think of a team in my history of watching the game that has had a group of guys scoring 16ppg that's shown any consistency in the post season.

2004 Detroit Pistons say hi.

Also, is Kuz, Randle, and Ingram all averaging 16 really worse than one of them getting 20-22 and the other two getting 13-14? I don't really understand that math.

Also, if we don't add any volume scorers, is it really that hard to envision both Ingram and Randle being over 20 ppg next year?

[Crooked-I]

I'd like to see Ingram add to his 3-10 foot game. Sometimes he gets cut off by the defender on his drives and over penetrates and shoots up a wild shot. If he can just add a bump with a jump stop and shoot that lil baby jump shot/hook/floater it'll add to his scoring game. Kobe was really good at this so I hope BI reaches out to him.

Also hitting contested jumpers/3s is a problem for him. He can hit when he's wide open, but contests really bother him I noticed. However, his driving game is such a threat that they give him wide open shots which he can knock down. But to be a top 10 player he's going to have to be able to hit contested shots.

I feel like he can peak at Kawhi level on offense which would be amazing.

[Duke4life831]

I'd like to see Ingram add to his 3-10 foot game. Sometimes he gets cut off by the defender on his drives and over penetrates and shoots up a wild shot. If he can just add a bump with a jump stop and shoot that lil baby jump shot/hook/floater it'll add to his scoring game. Kobe was really good at this so I hope BI reaches out to him.

Also hitting contested jumpers/3s is a problem for him. He can hit when he's wide open, but contests really bother him I noticed. However, his driving game is such a threat that they give him wide open shots which he can knock down. But to be a top 10 player he's going to have to be able to hit contested shots.

I feel like he can peak at Kawhi level on offense which would be amazing.

I think the 3-10 range is the next step for his efficiency. If he can become a legit threat from that distance it will make him even harder to guard at the rim because he would become less predictable. If he can get to say somewhere in the 32-35% range from there, I think we will see his finishing at the rim get above that 70% mark.

No doubt he has plenty of things to work on, I just think you have to love where he is at currently and the progression that he has already shown. If he continues on this progression rate, the dude is going to be really really good.

Next season I want to see that FT% get over that 70% mark, a higher volume of 3s but keep the percentage and the improvement in that 3-10 range. Also more consistency defensively. I thought he showed good growth defensively, just more consistency in defense will be great.

[Landsberger]

In Luke’s system, it’s scorring by committee. And with Lonzo at the point we might have a different highest scorer in each game. I’d personally rather see 6 players scoring 12 in every game than seeing one of them jack it up and score 30. There will be 30 point games by BI, and Randle, and Kuzma, but I foresee the Lakers sporting an even scoring load across the roster. And I trust that Ball and Luke will get everyone involved to help the best they can with the W-L column.

I'd personally rather see more than 35 wins. Trotting the same crew out there and hoping that everyone of them progresses to the maximum of the potential curve is very unrealistic. We need a central scorer that you can count on who gets at least 20-22ppg. Sure he doesn't have to the be the high scorer every night but the scoring by committee thing doesn't work when you get to the playoffs. I can't think of a team in my history of watching the game that has had a group of guys scoring 16ppg that's shown any consistency in the post season.

I think we had 9 players in double figures in a few games right before injuries. Looked hard to beat.

We had consistency in the post season?

[Landsberger]

In Luke’s system, it’s scorring by committee. And with Lonzo at the point we might have a different highest scorer in each game. I’d personally rather see 6 players scoring 12 in every game than seeing one of them jack it up and score 30. There will be 30 point games by BI, and Randle, and Kuzma, but I foresee the Lakers sporting an even scoring load across the roster. And I trust that Ball and Luke will get everyone involved to help the best they can with the W-L column.

I'd personally rather see more than 35 wins. Trotting the same crew out there and hoping that everyone of them progresses to the maximum of the potential curve is very unrealistic. We need a central scorer that you can count on who gets at least 20-22ppg. Sure he doesn't have to the be the high scorer every night but the scoring by committee thing doesn't work when you get to the playoffs. I can't think of a team in my history of watching the game that has had a group of guys scoring 16ppg that's shown any consistency in the post season.

2004 Detroit Pistons say hi.

Also, is Kuz, Randle, and Ingram all averaging 16 really worse than one of them getting 20-22 and the other two getting 13-14? I don't really understand that math.

Also, if we don't add any volume scorers, is it really that hard to envision both Ingram and Randle being over 20 ppg next year?

That's the question isn't it? Do our guys just keep progressing up and to the right? My thoughts are that you don't just "add" something new every year until you're a superstar. League is full of top 10 picks that peak without reaching that level. Mathematics alone would dictate that one of the guys we've drafted in the last 5 years makes the All Star team....maybe 2. A superstar/leader type is 3 or 4 in a decade type of player. The fans here seem to think that every one of our guys is going to achieve that given the time. I think that's unrealistic based on history. Not saying that any of our guys suck or anything like that(heading the if they're not future superstars they must suck argument) but I think the ceiling is closer for both Ingram and Randle for example.

All of that said, I believe it's a moot argument as I believe Magic and the FO sees the need for a vet star or two. I believe we will try very hard to get one or two established stars in here over the summer. If we can do that and keep everyone then great if we can't and do it I'd say that's great as well.

[Duke4life831]

Dont know if you all have seen this. But I thought it was a good breakdown on the improvement of his handle from year 1 to year 2.

Watch on YouTube

[what would jack bauer do?]

Ingram still isn't old enough to drink. He's a baby in terms of his body developing. Look at the statistical trajectory of a Paul George or Antetokounpo and he's ahead of them. I can't wait to see the results of him filling out his body more this off-season.

[Dloading99]

This season he needs to be scoring at 25 ppg. and he can do it. He looks great. this season he's had games where he's looked great. the thing with Brandon Ingram is going to have to be the Lakers keeping him on the floor the whole season. don't baby him. he needs to play games he will get in a grove have like 5 great games and then miss five games. he's gotta keep playing. cause if he shows consistency. then he'll be a star. But yeah he had one stretch of the season where he was playing like a star. either way this is a player we need to keep and Build around.