Around the NBA IX

[Wavy Q]

I guarantee players talk to each other, it’s just dumbasses that would get caught

[andrewww]

I love yall dudes that are like I can't respect KD, Snake, etc as you struggle to get up from the couch to get snacks.

Im a Kobe guy through and through, but its obvious that the praise Lebron received winning in Miami with a super team made it justifiable for other superstars to fight fire with fire, the precedence was set whether people like it or not.

Bron stacked the deck with 3 all nba players in a Mickey Mouse conference for 8 years in a row, Durant saw a running mate who is an incredibly flawed player while the best position win multiple rings happened to be.. the team that beat his OKC team. And this is a team like the 2012-14 Spurs where they play team ball.

Why bother killing each other in the west (Spurs/Warriors/OKC/Houston etc) while Bron gets to coast for the entire season until the Finals?

Let's not forget that Kobe stuck it out with the Lakers because of the internal improvement of Bynum and eventually the addition of Pau put the Lakeshow on top.

Today's superstars learned from the mistakes of Garnett where he toiled in futility until it was almost too late while getting old...and that its the players who have the power to dictate their careers... I'm sure most superstars would "stay put" if they had competent front offices... Lebron being a slight exeption IMO because few players have leveraged their free agency to the degree that he has... He has no one to blame but himself for forcing mgmt into overpaying guys like Mr Kardashian or JR... Kyrie's departure was the first strike to Lebron decision part III... then when PG13 was willing to be traded to Cleveland AND extend..Lebron said he wouldnt commit... how is that not his fault for "having no help"?

[wco81]

So you saying it's our time now, ST?

Realistically, we've had enough good fortune for 10 NBA franchises. So maybe our purgatory is only beginning.

No kidding.

I think the pick that became Magic was highway robbery from the old New Orleans Jazz. And then not long after that, Worthy was one of the best in his draft class, added to a team which had won the title with a still very young Magic.

Then of course, LA was a magnet for players like Shaq and Howard. Not to mention Kobe.

And then that trade for Gasol.

Even before then, I don't know how Kareem ended up in LA but in those old days, probably big disparity in money among big and small market clubs. There still is today but with TV revenues sharing, it's not as bad.

[Sedale Threatt]

So you saying it's our time now, ST?

Realistically, we've had enough good fortune for 10 NBA franchises. So maybe our purgatory is only beginning.

No kidding.

I think the pick that became Magic was highway robbery from the old New Orleans Jazz. And then not long after that, Worthy was one of the best in his draft class, added to a team which had won the title with a still very young Magic.

Then of course, LA was a magnet for players like Shaq and Howard. Not to mention Kobe.

And then that trade for Gasol.

Even before then, I don't know how Kareem ended up in LA but in those old days, probably big disparity in money among big and small market clubs. There still is today but with TV revenues sharing, it's not as bad.

Kareem basically gave the Bucks an ultimatum that he would only play in L.A. or New York, and the Lakers had the pieces for the best offer. That's definitely luck.

But that's almost invariably what it takes. Like the Spurs -- won the lottery twice in years where a surefire Hall Of Fame big man was available who actually preferred playing/living in a small market. Or the Warriors, having Curry fall to them after the Timberwolves, in need of a point guard, passed on him TWICE.

And so on and on. You need to be lucky AND good.

[stan francisco]

Good professionals (GMs in this case) also buy themselves “lucky” breaks by being very good at what they do and thus set themselves up for being in the right position when opportunity presents itself. Luck is definitely a part of it but fortune is often drawn to where there’s intelligent effort and industriousness.

[tugs]

Not being revisionist here but I wonder where our luck was during the first rounds of recent drafts.

Meh, I still believe our players were unfortunate to be in a system run by Byron Scott.

[snaquille oatmeal]

I love yall dudes that are like I can't respect KD, Snake, etc as you struggle to get up from the couch to get snacks.

my Doritos have nothing to do with a competitive heart

[snaquille oatmeal]

I love yall dudes that are like I can't respect KD, Snake, etc as you struggle to get up from the couch to get snacks.

Im a Kobe guy through and through, but its obvious that the praise Lebron received winning in Miami with a super team made it justifiable for other superstars to fight fire with fire, the precedence was set whether people like it or not.

Bron stacked the deck with 3 all nba players in a Mickey Mouse conference for 8 years in a row, Durant saw a running mate who is an incredibly flawed player while the best position win multiple rings happened to be.. the team that beat his OKC team. And this is a team like the 2012-14 Spurs where they play team ball.

Why bother killing each other in the west (Spurs/Warriors/OKC/Houston etc) while Bron gets to coast for the entire season until the Finals?

Let's not forget that Kobe stuck it out with the Lakers because of the internal improvement of Bynum and eventually the addition of Pau put the Lakeshow on top.

Today's superstars learned from the mistakes of Garnett where he toiled in futility until it was almost too late while getting old...and that its the players who have the power to dictate their careers... I'm sure most superstars would "stay put" if they had competent front offices... Lebron being a slight exeption IMO because few players have leveraged their free agency to the degree that he has... He has no one to blame but himself for forcing mgmt into overpaying guys like Mr Kardashian or JR... Kyrie's departure was the first strike to Lebron decision part III... then when PG13 was willing to be traded to Cleveland AND extend..Lebron said he wouldnt commit... how is that not his fault for "having no help"?

not excusing Lebron for the super friends move in anyway, but I do think Lebron got validated when he went back to the Cavs and won a chip there. Durant's move was a coward's move from a competitive perspective just like Lebron's so Kevin needs to either go back to OKC or another team where he will clearly be the man. in GS he has 4 if not 5 guys that could be the man on any team.

[RamonSessions7]

Not being revisionist here but I wonder where our luck was during the first rounds of recent drafts.

Meh, I still believe our players were unfortunate to be in a system run by Byron Scott.

Keeping our lightly protected picks was extremely lucky. Who we drafted/ how they turn out is obv. dependent on FO/coaching as opposed to luck.

[andrewww]

I love yall dudes that are like I can't respect KD, Snake, etc as you struggle to get up from the couch to get snacks.

Im a Kobe guy through and through, but its obvious that the praise Lebron received winning in Miami with a super team made it justifiable for other superstars to fight fire with fire, the precedence was set whether people like it or not.

Bron stacked the deck with 3 all nba players in a Mickey Mouse conference for 8 years in a row, Durant saw a running mate who is an incredibly flawed player while the best position win multiple rings happened to be.. the team that beat his OKC team. And this is a team like the 2012-14 Spurs where they play team ball.

Why bother killing each other in the west (Spurs/Warriors/OKC/Houston etc) while Bron gets to coast for the entire season until the Finals?

Let's not forget that Kobe stuck it out with the Lakers because of the internal improvement of Bynum and eventually the addition of Pau put the Lakeshow on top.

Today's superstars learned from the mistakes of Garnett where he toiled in futility until it was almost too late while getting old...and that its the players who have the power to dictate their careers... I'm sure most superstars would "stay put" if they had competent front offices... Lebron being a slight exeption IMO because few players have leveraged their free agency to the degree that he has... He has no one to blame but himself for forcing mgmt into overpaying guys like Mr Kardashian or JR... Kyrie's departure was the first strike to Lebron decision part III... then when PG13 was willing to be traded to Cleveland AND extend..Lebron said he wouldnt commit... how is that not his fault for "having no help"?

not excusing Lebron for the super friends move in anyway, but I do think Lebron got validated when he went back to the Cavs and won a chip there. Durant's move was a coward's move from a competitive perspective just like Lebron's so Kevin needs to either go back to OKC or another team where he will clearly be the man. in GS he has 4 if not 5 guys that could be the man on any team.

I understand your perspective on returning to Cleveland but I dont see it that way at all.

He only went back because Of two reasons:

-Wades knees were on major decline
-kyrie was now in clev and wiggins bout to be traded for klove. Anyone who disagrees look no furthe more to preseason vegas odds where the cavs were the 2014-15 title favourites. You think he goes “home” without help around him? His history suggests otherwise.

In other words, he changed the narrative for many people but I wont be fooled...this summer will be him ring chasing for a third time...Durant for all his fauls has done it once and did it better than lebron...

[snaquille oatmeal]

Im a Kobe guy through and through, but its obvious that the praise Lebron received winning in Miami with a super team made it justifiable for other superstars to fight fire with fire, the precedence was set whether people like it or not.

Bron stacked the deck with 3 all nba players in a Mickey Mouse conference for 8 years in a row, Durant saw a running mate who is an incredibly flawed player while the best position win multiple rings happened to be.. the team that beat his OKC team. And this is a team like the 2012-14 Spurs where they play team ball.

Why bother killing each other in the west (Spurs/Warriors/OKC/Houston etc) while Bron gets to coast for the entire season until the Finals?

Let's not forget that Kobe stuck it out with the Lakers because of the internal improvement of Bynum and eventually the addition of Pau put the Lakeshow on top.

Today's superstars learned from the mistakes of Garnett where he toiled in futility until it was almost too late while getting old...and that its the players who have the power to dictate their careers... I'm sure most superstars would "stay put" if they had competent front offices... Lebron being a slight exeption IMO because few players have leveraged their free agency to the degree that he has... He has no one to blame but himself for forcing mgmt into overpaying guys like Mr Kardashian or JR... Kyrie's departure was the first strike to Lebron decision part III... then when PG13 was willing to be traded to Cleveland AND extend..Lebron said he wouldnt commit... how is that not his fault for "having no help"?

not excusing Lebron for the super friends move in anyway, but I do think Lebron got validated when he went back to the Cavs and won a chip there. Durant's move was a coward's move from a competitive perspective just like Lebron's so Kevin needs to either go back to OKC or another team where he will clearly be the man. in GS he has 4 if not 5 guys that could be the man on any team.

I understand your perspective on returning to Cleveland but I dont see it that way at all.

He only went back because Of two reasons:

-Wades knees were on major decline
-kyrie was now in clev and wiggins bout to be traded for klove. Anyone who disagrees look no furthe more to preseason vegas odds where the cavs were the 2014-15 title favourites. You think he goes “home” without help around him? His history suggests otherwise.

In other words, he changed the narrative for many people but I wont be fooled...this summer will be him ring chasing for a third time...Durant for all his fauls has done it once and did it better than lebron...

the difference between the move to Miami and Back to Cleveland was that yes he had Kyrie, but nobody else. he did bring in Love but that was after the fact. Though Love was considered "the man" in Minnie he wasn't good enough enough to take them to the playoffs. so clearly the Cavs post the second coming was way inferior to the super friends Miami team.

[andrewww]

not excusing Lebron for the super friends move in anyway, but I do think Lebron got validated when he went back to the Cavs and won a chip there. Durant's move was a coward's move from a competitive perspective just like Lebron's so Kevin needs to either go back to OKC or another team where he will clearly be the man. in GS he has 4 if not 5 guys that could be the man on any team.

I understand your perspective on returning to Cleveland but I dont see it that way at all.

He only went back because Of two reasons:

-Wades knees were on major decline
-kyrie was now in clev and wiggins bout to be traded for klove. Anyone who disagrees look no furthe more to preseason vegas odds where the cavs were the 2014-15 title favourites. You think he goes “home” without help around him? His history suggests otherwise.

In other words, he changed the narrative for many people but I wont be fooled...this summer will be him ring chasing for a third time...Durant for all his fauls has done it once and did it better than lebron...

the difference between the move to Miami and Back to Cleveland was that yes he had Kyrie, but nobody else. he did bring in Love but that was after the fact. Though Love was considered "the man" in Minnie he wasn't good enough enough to take them to the playoffs. so clearly the Cavs post the second coming was way inferior to the super friends Miami team.

I disagree with your Kevin Love take. Everyone and their mother knew he was on the block and that he was available for the first overall pick, let's not spin the narrative to absolve Lebron. You and I BOTH know he went back to Cleveland because of a younger big 3 and the fact that it was in CLE only works out perfectly for Lebron to "go home". Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME. Now its gona be for a THIRD time... c'mon man you're reaching.

Lebron purposely excluded Wiggins from his "welcome home" letter, he's no dummy. Whether or not LeGM made the right call is a whole nother discussion which is what youre trying to bring up. In many ways LeGM has actually gotten in the way of LePlayer being surrounded by optimal parts like Durant did in GSW... but it doesnt make him any more noble because he's going to jump ship AGAIN in about a month..how can you seriously believe he went home when he's been ring chasing in his prime since 2010? The evidence overwhelmingly supports my take...

[snaquille oatmeal]

I understand your perspective on returning to Cleveland but I dont see it that way at all.

He only went back because Of two reasons:

-Wades knees were on major decline
-kyrie was now in clev and wiggins bout to be traded for klove. Anyone who disagrees look no furthe more to preseason vegas odds where the cavs were the 2014-15 title favourites. You think he goes “home” without help around him? His history suggests otherwise.

In other words, he changed the narrative for many people but I wont be fooled...this summer will be him ring chasing for a third time...Durant for all his fauls has done it once and did it better than lebron...

the difference between the move to Miami and Back to Cleveland was that yes he had Kyrie, but nobody else. he did bring in Love but that was after the fact. Though Love was considered "the man" in Minnie he wasn't good enough enough to take them to the playoffs. so clearly the Cavs post the second coming was way inferior to the super friends Miami team.

I disagree with your Kevin Love take. Everyone and their mother knew he was on the block and that he was available for the first overall pick, let's not spin the narrative to absolve Lebron. You and I BOTH know he went back to Cleveland because of a younger big 3 and the fact that it was in CLE only works out perfectly for Lebron to "go home". Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME. Now its gona be for a THIRD time... c'mon man you're reaching.

Lebron purposely excluded Wiggins from his "welcome home" letter, he's no dummy. Whether or not LeGM made the right call is a whole nother discussion which is what youre trying to bring up. In many ways LeGM has actually gotten in the way of LePlayer being surrounded by optimal parts like Durant did in GSW... but it doesnt make him any more noble because he's going to jump ship AGAIN in about a month..how can you seriously believe he went home when he's been ring chasing in his prime since 2010? The evidence overwhelmingly supports my take...

you are talking about expectations and I'm talking about reality. Fact- the Wolfs did not make the playoffs under Love. Fact- Love did not play to expectations in Cleveland. you are saying Love was expected to be as good as Wade and he was not.

[andrewww]

the difference between the move to Miami and Back to Cleveland was that yes he had Kyrie, but nobody else. he did bring in Love but that was after the fact. Though Love was considered "the man" in Minnie he wasn't good enough enough to take them to the playoffs. so clearly the Cavs post the second coming was way inferior to the super friends Miami team.

I disagree with your Kevin Love take. Everyone and their mother knew he was on the block and that he was available for the first overall pick, let's not spin the narrative to absolve Lebron. You and I BOTH know he went back to Cleveland because of a younger big 3 and the fact that it was in CLE only works out perfectly for Lebron to "go home". Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on ME. Now its gona be for a THIRD time... c'mon man you're reaching.

Lebron purposely excluded Wiggins from his "welcome home" letter, he's no dummy. Whether or not LeGM made the right call is a whole nother discussion which is what youre trying to bring up. In many ways LeGM has actually gotten in the way of LePlayer being surrounded by optimal parts like Durant did in GSW... but it doesnt make him any more noble because he's going to jump ship AGAIN in about a month..how can you seriously believe he went home when he's been ring chasing in his prime since 2010? The evidence overwhelmingly supports my take...

you are talking about expectations and I'm talking about reality. Fact- the Wolfs did not make the playoffs under Love. Fact- Love did not play to expectations in Cleveland. you are saying Love was expected to be as good as Wade and he was not.

Expectations vs reality.. is what you're in denial about.... and I have yet to see one good argument... what the Warriors have become is EVERYTHING Lebron envisioned when he signed with the HEAT... just because it didnt go quite as planned is through no lack of trying.. or am I wrong in this point?

Ditto for CLE..he lowered everyone's expectations of title or bust every year in Miami...even one ring in CLE would be looked at as a success... but you're sugar coating his return "home" as if he wanted to do the noble thing... he didn't. He said it himself if he had to do Miami all over again he would... why is that? Every move he's made since 2010 has been with the intent of accumulating as much talent on his team by whatever means possible..I don't fault him for that... but you're being disengenous to suggest he redeemed himself by winning in CLE...on sentimental value sure he won over a lot of people...but again as a seasoned poker player..I can see a bullshyter and Lebron is about as good at manipulating narratives as there is in sports...

here are some more facts...for all of KLove's deficiencies he was STILL all nba 2nd team good in 2012 and 2014 prior to CLE... Love not playing to expectations in CLE isnt a FACT as though its his fault... why dont you take a look at what Lebron's game does to PFs like Bosh and KLove? And at no point in time did i compare KLove to Wade.. Kyrie is the one being compared to WAde and KLove is in the Bosh role...

You have been brainwashed like a large contingent of people...

[wco81]

Not being revisionist here but I wonder where our luck was during the first rounds of recent drafts.

Meh, I still believe our players were unfortunate to be in a system run by Byron Scott.

You mean like getting the #2 pick in 3 consecutive drafts?

The odds are pretty low of that happening and yet here we are.


Now Lakers fans, if you had to draft over again last year, knowing what you know now, would you still draft Lonzo instead of say Tatum?

[Sedale Threatt]

F*ck no.

[Wavy Q]

In a redraft Tatum goes 1 anyway

Donovan Mitchell is the more interesting question

[JohnVancouver]

Best shooters ever.

Bird, Miller, Curry ??? that's my top 3 for best shooters, not talking about anything else, just shooters

Probably crazy to put bird at number 1, I just remember him back in the day burning so many teams, probably just memory clicking back, for when I use to be a player folllower

I too remember Bird as having an amazing shot. It just seemed to always be on. (Drove me nuts as a Lakers fan!)
The other two I remember that seemed to never miss were Mitch Richmond and Peja. Both were incredible shooters.

With that said, Curry is the best shooter I have ever seen.

Peja missed a lot of Rick Fox was in the building.

Curry is the best one I’ve seen off a dribble

Nash, Rick Barry - West!

so many, but your three are right there at the top, no question

where will Klay be?

[JohnVancouver]

Ray Allen, Miller, Nash, Curry... Rice... Those guys were/are all different flavors of the same dessert...

Curry has the best team around him for his career by far, but it would be hard not to say he's the best of those guys... It's also hard to say Ray Allen or Miller weren't as well... Clearly the best shooter in the game right now with a clear path to No1 all time.

Honestly though, not trying to say he's better than Curry... I really don't care... But guys who didn't get the chance to watch it live should really go back and watch clips of Ray Allen draining shots in Seattle or Milwaukee... Dude was like a shooting robot.

absolutely Sweet Ray

[SlimShady83]

I too remember Bird as having an amazing shot. It just seemed to always be on. (Drove me nuts as a Lakers fan!)
The other two I remember that seemed to never miss were Mitch Richmond and Peja. Both were incredible shooters.

With that said, Curry is the best shooter I have ever seen.

Peja missed a lot of Rick Fox was in the building.

Curry is the best one I’ve seen off a dribble

Nash, Rick Barry - West!

so many, but your three are right there at the top, no question

where will Klay be?

I'm an old school feller - Klay would be in my top 10, but not top 5, still got Allen, Peja. still got other players like Rice etc