State of the Lakers?

Post #41 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Tue Nov 7, 2017 7:55 pm

Haha couldn’t help myself

MelosSoreWrist · Post #42 » by **MelosSoreWrist** » Tue Nov 7, 2017 8:01 pm

Crooked-I wrote:I'm one of those that believes free agency next season is going to be a let down. I don't think PG13 leaves the Thunder or Lebron leaves the Cavs and if they do it won't be for us. Just don't see how those guys leave contenders for a 25-30 win team.

I do believe we're headed in the right direction with our young guys tho. The all have holes, but they've shown potential for first and second year guys. But it is going to take longer than expected. Gonna need them to show something first before we get some good FAs

Im going to say this, and keep saying this until it isnt true... Lakers have a better record than the Cavs and the Thunder.

Post #43 » by **snaquille oatmeal** » Tue Nov 7, 2017 8:12 pm

MelosSoreWrist wrote:
Crooked-I wrote:I'm one of those that believes free agency next season is going to be a let down. I don't think PG13 leaves the Thunder or Lebron leaves the Cavs and if they do it won't be for us. Just don't see how those guys leave contenders for a 25-30 win team.

I do believe we're headed in the right direction with our young guys tho. The all have holes, but they've shown potential for first and second year guys. But it is going to take longer than expected. Gonna need them to show something first before we get some good FAs

Im going to say this, and keep saying this until it isnt true... Lakers have a better record than the Cavs and the Thunder.

Hey last season we had a better record than the Warriors.....then game 2 happened

LakersSoul · Post #44 » by **LakersSoul** » Tue Nov 7, 2017 11:47 pm

LOL!! Oooops.

My two loves. SB and Lakers.

gts1 · Post #45 » by **gts1** » Wed Nov 8, 2017 11:51 pm

tugs wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't want any max FAs next year and prefer to keep this core team?

nope... right there with you.. especially when you see who's being mentioned as possible offseason targets. Much rather see the team develop as is instead of tearing it apart to acquire a big name.

XXBKXX · Post #46 » by **XXBKXX** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:06 pm

gts1 wrote:
tugs wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't want any max FAs next year and prefer to keep this core team?
nope... right there with you.. especially when you see who's being mentioned as possible offseason targets. Much rather see the team develop as is instead of tearing it apart to acquire a big name.

Let's unpack this statement. With Randle, KCP, Lopez expiring this year you'd rather we spend our cap space to try and resign all of them as opposed to go after the big fishes? Because Zo, Kuz, BI are cost controlled for multiple years.

dub81 · Post #47 » by **dub81** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:13 pm

We are set up right. Add a few shooter's for Zo and keep it moving. Pray that BI develops a consistent jumper and shoot better at the free throw line.

MAMBAEMD · Post #48 » by **MAMBAEMD** » Sat Nov 11, 2017 11:20 pm

The last 2 games against the C's and the Wiz notwithstanding, I am super encouraged by our defense.
I love our direction. And my gut sense is that we're closer to playoff contention than many of us think.

Tee212 · Post #49 » by **Tee212** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 8:19 am

im happy cause were doing better than some other vet teams right now. correct the 3p shooting and playoff bound.

LakersSoul · Post #50 » by **LakersSoul** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:34 am

Sucks that we are in a 3 game losing streak even though its somewhat expected after taking on Boston, Washington and Bucks.

The loss today was a real lack of focus. How can you miss 15 FTs? How can you get lazy and turn the ball over 21 times? The only two players that came to play today were Ball and Kuzma. Yes, the two damn rookies were top 2 in scoring and rebounds. Shame on everyone else on the team. Ingram and Randle had bad games but I can give them a night off. Lopez is a vet, he should be doing more. Clarkson was trash in the 2nd half. Walton should have a quicker leash with him.

Maybe Magic needs to keep Ball, Ingram, Kuzma and ship everyone else away. Add some MAX guys plus guys like Nwaba from the G-League.

I want the team to win the next 6 out of 7 games to get us to 11-9 on the year.

-Spyda- · Post #51 » by **-Spyda-** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:16 pm

Why the lakers not playing with the purple uniform?

scoobs07 · Post #52 » by **scoobs07** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 6:34 pm

I voted #2

1. Right now, Ball is basically Rojon Rondo without the elite defense. Still has better shooting potential though.

2. We dont have anybody on the team that is a "pure shooter". Clarkson and Ingram are good percentage wise and may have developed into a "pure shooter", like Fisher did, but I dont trust that. I rather try to acquire one.

3. I would try to stick to the cap space plan, while simultaneously improving our team this season to have something to build on and impress free agents. We could do it. Some Laker fans need to let go of their obsessive attachments to certain players.

gts1 · Post #53 » by **gts1** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:03 pm

XXBKXX wrote:
gts1 wrote:
tugs wrote:Am I the only one who doesn't want any max FAs next year and prefer to keep this core team?
nope... right there with you.. especially when you see who's being mentioned as possible offseason targets. Much rather see the team develop as is instead of tearing it apart to acquire a big name.

Let's unpack this statement. With Randle, KCP, Lopez expiring this year you'd rather we spend our cap space to try and resign all of them as opposed to go after the big fishes? Because Zo, Kuz, BI are cost controlled for multiple years.

Unpack? lol but yes.. big fishes are short term or not true difference makers.. Lebron would hold the franchise hostage just like everywhere else he's been an and George isn't going to take the team over the top... keep on the path we are on with the kids.. keep building the team for the long term not a short term fix that will end up with us being worse than we are now in 2 or three years.

danfantastk32 · Post #54 » by **danfantastk32** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:31 pm

gts1 wrote:Lebron would hold the franchise hostage just like everywhere else he's been an and George isn't going to take the team over the top... keep on the path we are on with the kids.. keep building the team for the long term not a short term fix that will end up with us being worse than we are now in 2 or three years.

I think both the Cavs and the Heat owe a massive debt of gratitude to Lebron. Where are either of those franchises, if he didn't go there? You think Wade / Bosh get someone else, and win 2 titles? You think Kyrie gets the Cavs to a title? Yeah....Lebron has massive sway in how the team was constructed....but kinda seems like it's turned out pretty good so far.

I think the statement "Lebron would hold the franchise hostage just like everywhere else he's been" is just such a twist of what happened. Would any of those teams take it back, knowing what they know now? He stood by Cleveland for years when they gave him NOTHING. Even when all the rumors started coming out he might leave, they never tried to get him anyone. He woulda been a fool to stay.

I actually agree with you on the "staying the course" part. We should focus on our youth. That said: I see no reason why we couldn't keep this core....resign Lopez for a little less, AND STILL get Lebron.

Move a couple folks....Brewer is $7mil....KCP is what?? $18ish....You got some "GM-MAGIC" you can pull and get some exceptions added...etc etc etc. You make the tough choice between Nance and Randle, and let the other one go. Your already at about $30mil. We haven't done anything with Deng or Clarkson.

It's a real simple conversation: Lebron....we'd love to have you....but you have to understand, we are keeping the youth, and developing them. You can join or not. We think you'd make this team great, and in a year or two...we'd be competing. We won't close the door on possibilities down the road for some more help.....but for now, don't be thinking other veteran stars. You down?

Leave it at that.

danfantastk32 · Post #55 » by **danfantastk32** » Sun Nov 12, 2017 7:39 pm

Make the same pitch to PG if Lebron isn't interested. I'd rather have Lebron personally....but I think PG (if he stays committed to D) would be a fine fit as well.

Give a couple years....see who's legitimately panned out, from Nance/Kuz/Ball/Ingram, etc. By then Deng is on last year and moveable, or stretchable. I'd like to see where A-Davis is, at that point.

Pythagoras · Post #56 » by **Pythagoras** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 2:37 am

I'm super encouraged by the defense, I like what I'm seeing in the progress out of Ingram, Kuzma remains solid, Randle has been studly. There's a lot to like on the court. Hopefully they can win at least two of the next three. The young guys need to learn to start winning and bouncing back from losing streaks. Not only is an important step in their development, but they also need to signal to FAs that they're done being completely awful.

Wish they didn't completely suck at 3pt and FT shooting though.

tugs · Post #57 » by **tugs** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:17 am

gts1 wrote:
XXBKXX wrote:
gts1 wrote:nope... right there with you.. especially when you see who's being mentioned as possible offseason targets. Much rather see the team develop as is instead of tearing it apart to acquire a big name.

Let's unpack this statement. With Randle, KCP, Lopez expiring this year you'd rather we spend our cap space to try and resign all of them as opposed to go after the big fishes? Because Zo, Kuz, BI are cost controlled for multiple years.
Unpack? lol but yes.. big fishes are short term or not true difference makers.. Lebron would hold the franchise hostage just like everywhere else he's been an and George isn't going to take the team over the top... keep on the path we are on with the kids.. keep building the team for the long term not a short term fix that will end up with us being worse than we are now in 2 or three years.

Two of my reasons would be looking at the GSW model. 3/4 key guys were groomed to be what they are now. Iguodala was a key piece and influence, as well as Mark Jackson in building that dynasty. People act like Curry, Klay, and Dray got better overnight.

The other reason is the OKC model, where Presti was too conscious of giving sufficient compensation and would rather trade away talent than wait for them to grow. Harden? Jackson? Is trading them away the only solution?

People clamor on trading JC and Randle not because they are not performing, it's because they are assets. If they weren't then why would you think other teams will want them? Some fans are just extreme sometimes and seem to miss that logic and are purely blinded by hate.

If I were Magic and Rob, I'd sit Randle down, tell him that this is the plan and we want you to be part of this, but we have to sacrifice some part of your pay for a better chance on the championship. If he declines then let him go. Sometimes it's how employers approach the situation WITH their employees. Better to be transparent and make them part of their vision, despite minor setbacks, than suddenly stabbing them in the back, or broadcasting to the whole world we don't want you and we're just finding some takers for you.

danfantastk32 · Post #58 » by **danfantastk32** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:43 am

tugs wrote:Two of my reasons would be looking at the GSW model. 3/4 key guys were groomed to be what they are now. Iguodala was a key piece and influence, as well as Mark Jackson in building that dynasty. People act like Curry, Klay, and Dray got better overnight.

I hear it....and for the most part I agree. But you have to be careful with this whole "GS Model" thing. What are the chances that two best 3-point shooters are drafted on the same team? Did anyone really expect "Curry" when they drafter Curry?

How come nobody else did the "triangle model"? The damn thing only won 11 titles! <-----it's a little more complicated than that.

Take the Showtime Lakers: You go ahead and just 'build' the Showtime Lakers. Get yourself one of the 15 PG's in the league right now who are 6'-8'...massively talented ...immediate leaders...can play almost any position....and have the charisma / moxy to lead a dynasty.

Oh....there aren't 15 of those right now?

The Warriors are just that: Unique. You can look at some of the 'concepts' and see where it leads...but Draymond was a mistake by the Warriors...and how often can you expect a mega-star like Durant to come join (in his freakin PRIME) for a cut? Was that part of the Model?

I would point out that the Warriors certainly didn't follow any Model before them....neither did the Bulls. Neither did the late-80's pistons. Nor the Showtime Lakers. Or the Millenial Spurs. etc etc.

I think we'd be best served forging our own path...and not worrying about what the Warriors did.

tugs · Post #59 » by **tugs** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:56 am

danfantastk32 wrote:
tugs wrote:Two of my reasons would be looking at the GSW model. 3/4 key guys were groomed to be what they are now. Iguodala was a key piece and influence, as well as Mark Jackson in building that dynasty. People act like Curry, Klay, and Dray got better overnight.

I hear it....and for the most part I agree. But you have to be careful with this whole "GS Model" thing. What are the chances that two best 3-point shooters are drafted on the same team? Did anyone really expect "Curry" when they drafter Curry?

How come nobody else did the "triangle model"? The damn thing only won 11 titles! <-----it's a little more complicated than that.

Take the Showtime Lakers: You go ahead and just 'build' the Showtime Lakers. Get yourself one of the 15 PG's in the league right now who are 6'-8'...massively talented ...immediate leaders...can play almost any position....and have the charisma / moxy to lead a dynasty.

Oh....there aren't 15 of those right now?

Yep, I fully understand your point. Using your argument, I'd say that a system's effectiveness and success hinges on one or two, if not both, things: finding the right personnel or/and pure luck.

For the former, we can see that with the triangle offense. 90's Bulls, 2000's Lakers both have the personnel to execute the complexity of the system. Recent iteration with the Knicks? Nope. For the latter, we can use your argument with Klay and Curry. We're they touted as shooters? Yes. Did anyone foresee they can be this insane? Nope. Lucky for the FO for striking gold and now they have something to build on.

Now going back, what is the state of the team? What is their current identity? From my standpoint I'm seeing a bit of Showtime, Nash era Suns, and JKidd Nets. Personnel? Check. Did we get lucky? One month into the season so we have to be patient. Who knows this group might develop into something "different" similar to Showtime and the Triangle. We might get lucky enough to see a team composed of two contrasting style of plays from the starters (shooting and spacing) and the bench (run and gun and bully ball) that actually work? Right now I think we need to establish an identity and stick with it. Whoever doesn't fit will be the odd man out. No need to press the panic button one month into the season. Who would've thought we'd be competing this way with this record? Didn't we all assume this will take time? Now we're getting wins and we still want immediate changes?

danfantastk32 · Post #60 » by **danfantastk32** » Mon Nov 13, 2017 3:47 pm

tugs wrote:Right now I think we need to establish an identity and stick with it. Whoever doesn't fit will be the odd man out. No need to press the panic button one month into the season. Who would've thought we'd be competing this way with this record? Didn't we all assume this will take time? Now we're getting wins and we still want immediate changes?

Yeah...I think we agree 100% there. I just don't want to see us trading guys because they don't shoot like Curry. Having a team that plays like GS would be awesome....but we're building from a different basket of ingredients. Have a philosophy....keep guys that do the things you want them to do well. Go from there.

But yes....1000% I don't want to see us toss all our youth to get Lebron / Boogie / and PG for 3-4 years. We are doing fine, I think...and we just need to let this squad grow.