Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
There's no need for Randle with Kuzma, Nance (both under more cheap team control), and (BBall gods forbid) Deng, on the roster (Deng can pretty much ONLY play smallball4 at this point of his career, which made his signing even more (Please Use More Appropriate Word) in retrospect). Thus Randle is the odd man out and if we can get some assets for him while we can, we need to do it ASAP before his play comes down to earth and his value goes down to due his new team having him for less games to see if he fits with em or not.
Nance's injury could be a blessing in disguise and we need to up Randle mins a smidge and pray his efficiency stays up and some team gets fooled into thinking Randle can be their future PF of the future.
Simply put, our PFs of the future is LBJ (cmon Magic do yo thang) or Kuzma. If we're gonna pay big money to someone its gonna be towards superstars and any money going towards non superstars like Clarkson or a Randle extension reduces our cap to chase multiple superstars who we all know want to make superteams instead of wallowing as a lone man getting stomped by GSW. We can fill out our bench with ring chasers and MLE/LLE vets later after we assemble a super squad that will be attractive to those types.
Hell look at NOP. They have 2 franchise level big men, but utter trash elsewhere. Jrue Holiday can at best be considered a top 12 PG, maaaaaaybe, but he's getting paid like he's top 5, i mean he's making more money than SuperBrow ffs. They have **** contracts in Asik, Hill, and Moore (well i give Moore a pass he's doing decent), who are clogging their cap and giving little to negative value. Boogie will demand and deserve a max, and why the hell should he take a paycut on a middle western conference playoff team. That team has no growth potential despite having 2 clear cut superstar talents, dont have picks so trading is super difficult, their salary cap limitations screws em over, unless a superstar forces their way over ala PG13/Kyrie, but again without 1st round picks why would another team bend over and take it?
We clear out our gunk (Deng, Clarkson), without touching our best assets (Kuz, Ball, Ingram), and not give out stupid extensions (Randle), then we can attract 2 superstars feasibly, and if utterly necessary trade one of our best young assets to facilitate a 3rd superstar coming in (ala Love to CLE type of affair). LBJ turned a **** CLE into a winner overnight, he's older now so he'll need more help, so if we can also help him bring in 2 superbuddies + our youth corps, we can do damage now AND in the future.
This year we're actually quite lucky that most of our youth corps is showing signs of life. Randle/Clarkson trade values should be shooting up. Ingram is taking a huge step. Nance is solid. Kuzma came out of nowhere. Only Lonzo is looking trash, but there's still time, and if he can just turn into merely a poor shooter, it'd be huge.
Nance's injury could be a blessing in disguise and we need to up Randle mins a smidge and pray his efficiency stays up and some team gets fooled into thinking Randle can be their future PF of the future.
Simply put, our PFs of the future is LBJ (cmon Magic do yo thang) or Kuzma. If we're gonna pay big money to someone its gonna be towards superstars and any money going towards non superstars like Clarkson or a Randle extension reduces our cap to chase multiple superstars who we all know want to make superteams instead of wallowing as a lone man getting stomped by GSW. We can fill out our bench with ring chasers and MLE/LLE vets later after we assemble a super squad that will be attractive to those types.
Hell look at NOP. They have 2 franchise level big men, but utter trash elsewhere. Jrue Holiday can at best be considered a top 12 PG, maaaaaaybe, but he's getting paid like he's top 5, i mean he's making more money than SuperBrow ffs. They have **** contracts in Asik, Hill, and Moore (well i give Moore a pass he's doing decent), who are clogging their cap and giving little to negative value. Boogie will demand and deserve a max, and why the hell should he take a paycut on a middle western conference playoff team. That team has no growth potential despite having 2 clear cut superstar talents, dont have picks so trading is super difficult, their salary cap limitations screws em over, unless a superstar forces their way over ala PG13/Kyrie, but again without 1st round picks why would another team bend over and take it?
We clear out our gunk (Deng, Clarkson), without touching our best assets (Kuz, Ball, Ingram), and not give out stupid extensions (Randle), then we can attract 2 superstars feasibly, and if utterly necessary trade one of our best young assets to facilitate a 3rd superstar coming in (ala Love to CLE type of affair). LBJ turned a **** CLE into a winner overnight, he's older now so he'll need more help, so if we can also help him bring in 2 superbuddies + our youth corps, we can do damage now AND in the future.
This year we're actually quite lucky that most of our youth corps is showing signs of life. Randle/Clarkson trade values should be shooting up. Ingram is taking a huge step. Nance is solid. Kuzma came out of nowhere. Only Lonzo is looking trash, but there's still time, and if he can just turn into merely a poor shooter, it'd be huge.
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
We aren't paying Randle $50 to $60 million over 4 years so shop his ass until you get some assets... We don't need 2 superstars fellas... Lets just get better... What would our record be right now with PG (legit closer) starting at SF, 8 & 4 or 7 & 5 instead of 5 & 7... We can't build a roster overnight... Add a piece or two each year... Magic & Rob brought in 3 starters & 6 rotation players last season...
In Magic I Trust...
In Magic I Trust...
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
I would look in to something like Randle to Brooklyn straight up for Harris or Randle and 2019 2nd round pick to Brooklyn for Kilpatrick and 2018 Toronto 1st round pick.
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
BRK aint making a move for Randle, that ship passed with the DLo/Mozgov move. They have Carroll for another year and it looks like he's prolly gonna be limited to smallball 4 due to age and faltering athleticism. Rondae Hollis Jefferson they're high on and is similar to Randle in that he has no 3pt shot. Randle is stronger, but RHJ is quicker/plus defender and is under team control on the cheap for another year, whereas Randle needs to get paid next offseason.
The ideal trade at the time would've been Randle/Mozgov/1st/2nd/3mil cash for BroLo, it woulda wiped a gruesome contract and kept DLo to be the SG part timer PG when Lonzo sits, as well as getting a stopgap superior C. HOWEVER if that trade was made we wouldnt have gotten Kuzma, so its crazy how things played out.
Randle at best is worth a #20-24 pick. Is there a playoff fringe team who needs an offesnsive spark PF....
The ideal trade at the time would've been Randle/Mozgov/1st/2nd/3mil cash for BroLo, it woulda wiped a gruesome contract and kept DLo to be the SG part timer PG when Lonzo sits, as well as getting a stopgap superior C. HOWEVER if that trade was made we wouldnt have gotten Kuzma, so its crazy how things played out.
Randle at best is worth a #20-24 pick. Is there a playoff fringe team who needs an offesnsive spark PF....
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
Honestly, How about this? Can BI play the 2 next year? Lineup of Zo, BI, Kuz, JR and bring in Boogie?
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
It's very simple to me.
The FO made a huge huge gamble with the Russell trade, basically going all in for the 2017 FA plan. Whether you want Randle to stay or not, you simply have to recognize that you have to atleast shop him in order to stick to the plan. So it becomes about this, imo. Has he shown enough for you to abandon this plan? Has anything else happened for you to think that this plan should be abandoned?
The way I see it, whether you agree with the "plan" or not, the thing that the worst franchises have in common are a lack of direction. Not shopping Randle clearly indicates that this team isn't confident in signing two max guys, which clearly makes the Russell trade idiotic. Look, I'm not making this about Dlo...I know some posters (Not calling him out in a negative way as he's a great poster/mod, but Kilroy specifically) tends to call out anyone bringing Russell into conversations about our team's future, but imo it's not logical to completely ignore past moves, especially one that significant. That move, as risky as it was, showed a clear plan, and within this plan, Randle has to be shopped...Not shopping him shows incompetence from the FO imo.
All I'm saying is this, the FO went all in for next summer. Only time will tell if they did the right thing or not, but I rather see them stick to this plan fully, rather than backtrack midway through it.
Now, the worst case scenario is that we shop Randle, for example to get rid of Deng, and we do nothing with our capspace, basically losing Dlo AND Randle for nothing. I like Randle, I really do. I couldn't be more impressed by him this year, and a failed FA next year with him and Dlo gone would be devastating, as we were heading into a good direction with our young core, so I'll be the first one to criicize the FO if that was to occur. I would actually be calling for their heads. But I want them to atleast stick to it, and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt until then. And again, this isn't about Dlo...it's really not even about Randle. It's about the competence of the FO. I love brook and Kuzma, and I love this current team a lot...and this team might not be this likable with Dlo. I'm really not criticizing the FO for that trade right now. Again, it's about the FO's direction. I want the FO to do things that make sense. I don't want us to be the Knicks. The FO's competence is far more important to me than one player.
The FO made a huge huge gamble with the Russell trade, basically going all in for the 2017 FA plan. Whether you want Randle to stay or not, you simply have to recognize that you have to atleast shop him in order to stick to the plan. So it becomes about this, imo. Has he shown enough for you to abandon this plan? Has anything else happened for you to think that this plan should be abandoned?
The way I see it, whether you agree with the "plan" or not, the thing that the worst franchises have in common are a lack of direction. Not shopping Randle clearly indicates that this team isn't confident in signing two max guys, which clearly makes the Russell trade idiotic. Look, I'm not making this about Dlo...I know some posters (Not calling him out in a negative way as he's a great poster/mod, but Kilroy specifically) tends to call out anyone bringing Russell into conversations about our team's future, but imo it's not logical to completely ignore past moves, especially one that significant. That move, as risky as it was, showed a clear plan, and within this plan, Randle has to be shopped...Not shopping him shows incompetence from the FO imo.
All I'm saying is this, the FO went all in for next summer. Only time will tell if they did the right thing or not, but I rather see them stick to this plan fully, rather than backtrack midway through it.
Now, the worst case scenario is that we shop Randle, for example to get rid of Deng, and we do nothing with our capspace, basically losing Dlo AND Randle for nothing. I like Randle, I really do. I couldn't be more impressed by him this year, and a failed FA next year with him and Dlo gone would be devastating, as we were heading into a good direction with our young core, so I'll be the first one to criicize the FO if that was to occur. I would actually be calling for their heads. But I want them to atleast stick to it, and I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt until then. And again, this isn't about Dlo...it's really not even about Randle. It's about the competence of the FO. I love brook and Kuzma, and I love this current team a lot...and this team might not be this likable with Dlo. I'm really not criticizing the FO for that trade right now. Again, it's about the FO's direction. I want the FO to do things that make sense. I don't want us to be the Knicks. The FO's competence is far more important to me than one player.
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
dub81 wrote:Honestly, How about this? Can BI play the 2 next year? Lineup of Zo, BI, Kuz, JR and bring in Boogie?
No way....that lineup lacks spacing, and leads to 3 players imo not playing their best position/role. BI is best at the 3, where he has a speed advantage which is far more important than the size advantage he would have at the 2. Kuz is best suited at the 4 for similar reasons, and this season clearly shows that Julius is at his bests playing the 5.
IF that was our lineup, I would expect Julius to come off the bench, and I'm not sure if paying him that much is logical for a bench role.
IF we keep Randle (and only go after one max FA), I would want PG, and we could role with Lonzo, BI, PG, Kuz, and JR, with BI being a bit out of position. Even then we might be better off having a 3 and D at the 2 with Kuz playing the LO role of the bench and one of BI or PG playing the 4.
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
TylersLakers wrote:The fact that many have voted "Trade him" is very concerning.
Front office through all their words and actions have made with clear that the plan is signing superstars this off season.
Keeping Randle on an extension is in opposition to this plan, which has been obvious since the beginning.
Feels like people are just putting their heads in th sand and ignoring the cap implications or under the impression the team is no longer aiming to sign multiple stars.
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
dockingsched wrote:TylersLakers wrote:The fact that many have voted "Trade him" is very concerning.
Front office through all their words and actions have made with clear that the plan is signing superstars this off season.
Keeping Randle on an extension is in opposition to this plan, which has been obvious since the beginning.
Feels like people are just putting their heads in th sand and ignoring the cap implications or under the impression the team is no longer aiming to sign multiple stars.
There's scenarios to keep Randle and still sign a max player. Regardless, you don't trade young players until you have agreements. Because if we trade Randle for nothing and get ZERO MAX PLAYERS (which is very, very possible), this front office is going to look like a bunch of idiots.
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
TylersLakers wrote:The fact that many have voted "Trade him" is very concerning.
So what do you sign him for?
I don't see anything in his game that we can't get elsewhere. What we can't get is 2 established All Stars and re-sign him. I think he's at or very close to his ceiling and the obvious change in him (physically) in a contract year is disconcerting. For a team with no closer and no true leader to sign a guy to real money who isn't one of those things seem backwards. Randle is a player who can be a finishing piece to a very good team.... not a center piece or even a starter on one. If he'd sign for $12 M on a two year contract with a team option I'd be for it but no way I'd lock him up for 5 years at $15M+ per.
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
Randle will be moving on, there's no point in discussing keeping him.
If there was remotely a chance we were keeping him Walton wouldn't have him buried in the rotation.
If there was remotely a chance we were keeping him Walton wouldn't have him buried in the rotation.
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
TylersLakers wrote:dockingsched wrote:TylersLakers wrote:The fact that many have voted "Trade him" is very concerning.
Front office through all their words and actions have made with clear that the plan is signing superstars this off season.
Keeping Randle on an extension is in opposition to this plan, which has been obvious since the beginning.
Feels like people are just putting their heads in th sand and ignoring the cap implications or under the impression the team is no longer aiming to sign multiple stars.
There's scenarios to keep Randle and still sign a max player. Regardless, you don't trade young players until you have agreements. Because if we trade Randle for nothing and get ZERO MAX PLAYERS (which is very, very possible), this front office is going to look like a bunch of idiots.
This. There's also the possibility that Randle might be able to maintain this production with increased minutes. Its a small sample size, but when he, Kuzma, and Ingram have been on the floor together, they've been really freaking good. If he could produce at this level of efficiency at even 28 minutes a game, he'd be worth keeping at the expense of a max guy.
Numbers rule the universe.
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
Landsberger wrote:TylersLakers wrote:The fact that many have voted "Trade him" is very concerning.
So what do you sign him for?
I don't see anything in his game that we can't get elsewhere. What we can't get is 2 established All Stars and re-sign him. I think he's at or very close to his ceiling and the obvious change in him (physically) in a contract year is disconcerting. For a team with no closer and no true leader to sign a guy to real money who isn't one of those things seem backwards. Randle is a player who can be a finishing piece to a very good team.... not a center piece or even a starter on one. If he'd sign for $12 M on a two year contract with a team option I'd be for it but no way I'd lock him up for 5 years at $15M+ per.
Here's scenarios from a poster on Twitter named Reed. Must follow guys.
Stretch Deng, trade Nance and JC and you have two max players + Randle, who you can re-sign to an extension once the cap space is used up. It's not hard guys. There's no use trading Randle for nothing.
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
Randle is playing well off the bench lately. If you are trading him I say wait until the deadline to fully evaluate. But I'm guessing that if we trade Randle ASAP it has somethig to do with dumping Deng in the process.
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
Do all for sign PG and Boogie
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
TylersLakers wrote:Landsberger wrote:TylersLakers wrote:The fact that many have voted "Trade him" is very concerning.
So what do you sign him for?
I don't see anything in his game that we can't get elsewhere. What we can't get is 2 established All Stars and re-sign him. I think he's at or very close to his ceiling and the obvious change in him (physically) in a contract year is disconcerting. For a team with no closer and no true leader to sign a guy to real money who isn't one of those things seem backwards. Randle is a player who can be a finishing piece to a very good team.... not a center piece or even a starter on one. If he'd sign for $12 M on a two year contract with a team option I'd be for it but no way I'd lock him up for 5 years at $15M+ per.
Here's scenarios from a poster on Twitter named Reed. Must follow guys.
Stretch Deng, trade Nance and JC and you have two max players + Randle, who you can re-sign to an extension once the cap space is used up. It's not hard guys. There's no use trading Randle for nothing.
Why sign KCP again and trade Clarkson? Clarkson is outplaying him for less money now. Randle aside, what KCP brings for what he's paid isn't something I'd continue moving forward.
The path above is threading a needle narrow. No room for negotiation with Randle and who knows if he doesn't think he's a feature starter?
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
such a huge chunk of players are unavailable to be traded until December, so I'm guessing we get a month of monitoring this before anything would happen.
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
TylersLakers wrote:dockingsched wrote:TylersLakers wrote:The fact that many have voted "Trade him" is very concerning.
Front office through all their words and actions have made with clear that the plan is signing superstars this off season.
Keeping Randle on an extension is in opposition to this plan, which has been obvious since the beginning.
Feels like people are just putting their heads in th sand and ignoring the cap implications or under the impression the team is no longer aiming to sign multiple stars.
There's scenarios to keep Randle and still sign a max player. Regardless, you don't trade young players until you have agreements. Because if we trade Randle for nothing and get ZERO MAX PLAYERS (which is very, very possible), this front office is going to look like a bunch of idiots.
After everything Magic has said, from before he even joined the front office, he’s going to look like an idiot if they miss out on top free agents whether they keep Randle or not. No one is going to feel any better that they weren’t able to sign top players just cause they turn around and give Randle a contract.
Regarding the scenarios you posted, signing two max players with one being Lebron requires over $65 mil in cap.
Also, I just can’t but that dumping Deng would be as easy as including some draft pick 3 years from now. Zubac is pretty worthless and Hart can’t havt too much value either.
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
dockingsched wrote:TylersLakers wrote:dockingsched wrote:Front office through all their words and actions have made with clear that the plan is signing superstars this off season.
Keeping Randle on an extension is in opposition to this plan, which has been obvious since the beginning.
Feels like people are just putting their heads in th sand and ignoring the cap implications or under the impression the team is no longer aiming to sign multiple stars.
There's scenarios to keep Randle and still sign a max player. Regardless, you don't trade young players until you have agreements. Because if we trade Randle for nothing and get ZERO MAX PLAYERS (which is very, very possible), this front office is going to look like a bunch of idiots.
After everything Magic has said, from before he even joined the front office, he’s going to look like an idiot if they miss out on top free agents whether they keep Randle or not. No one is going to feel any better that they weren’t able to sign top players just cause they turn around and give Randle a contract.
Regarding the scenarios you posted, signing two max players with one being Lebron requires over $65 mil in cap.
Also, I just can’t but that dumping Deng would be as easy as including some draft pick 3 years from now. Zubac is pretty worthless and Hart can’t havt too much value either.
Draymond isn’t Lebron but has value. Not sure why Randle can’t grow into a Draymond type player for us. Zubac isn’t worthless just too young.
Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
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Re: Randle trade rumor...Should Lakers Trade or Keep Randle?
I'm emotionally in the keep Randle camp... I'll probably be a fan of his as long as he's in the league....
But Logically... Keeping him only makes sense if neither of the '2 max guys' are LeBron or Cousins... There's just way too much overlap to justify paying Randle if you get either of those guys... Especially if you get both.
And honestly, any other 'Max guys' other than maybe PG, would be considered a failure IMO... We have to get some combination of LeBron, Cousins, and PG to justify everything Magic and Pelinka have been putting out there...
So as much as I would love to keep Randle... I can't think of a scenario in which it makes sense financially or on the court, given what the plans seem to be.
But Logically... Keeping him only makes sense if neither of the '2 max guys' are LeBron or Cousins... There's just way too much overlap to justify paying Randle if you get either of those guys... Especially if you get both.
And honestly, any other 'Max guys' other than maybe PG, would be considered a failure IMO... We have to get some combination of LeBron, Cousins, and PG to justify everything Magic and Pelinka have been putting out there...
So as much as I would love to keep Randle... I can't think of a scenario in which it makes sense financially or on the court, given what the plans seem to be.
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