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Ingram thread

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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#301 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:40 am

NotaHypeJob wrote:Ingram is kinda reminding me of Rudy gay


Ingram has already shown more defense than Gay ever has.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#302 » by Slava » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:10 am

NotaHypeJob wrote:Ingram is kinda reminding me of Rudy gay


When he plays poorly he's a bust then he plays well he gets these underhanded compliments. If you have nothing useful to post, don't post.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#303 » by karkinos » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:06 pm

he really hit his stride with shooting in the cavs game
mechanics look great
like magic said, the potential is there. just need time and experience. let him keep shooting
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#304 » by dAdo dA dEvil » Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:12 pm

Ingram is our guy. Just be patient.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#305 » by Landsberger » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:34 pm

Slava wrote:
NotaHypeJob wrote:Ingram is kinda reminding me of Rudy gay


When he plays poorly he's a bust then he plays well he gets these underhanded compliments. If you have nothing useful to post, don't post.


No offense here but what's wrong with being compared to Rudy Gay after 100 games? While not a franchise center piece he's still has been a very good player in the league. Gay was a 19-6 guy for a decade or more in the league. He shot well from mid-range to 3 and finished at the rim very well pre-injury. Actually it's a decent comparison offensively. At 21 Gay was a 20ppg player with 6 boards.

The way it seems here if someone doesn't compare him to Durant or some other superstar they are not really Laker fans.... There is a between level that he will most likely settle into as a pro.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#306 » by Slava » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:42 pm

Landsberger wrote:
Slava wrote:
NotaHypeJob wrote:Ingram is kinda reminding me of Rudy gay


When he plays poorly he's a bust then he plays well he gets these underhanded compliments. If you have nothing useful to post, don't post.


No offense here but what's wrong with being compared to Rudy Gay after 100 games? While not a franchise center piece he's still has been a very good player in the league. Gay was a 19-6 guy for a decade or more in the league. He shot well from mid-range to 3 and finished at the rim very well pre-injury. Actually it's a decent comparison offensively. At 21 Gay was a 20ppg player with 6 boards.

The way it seems here if someone doesn't compare him to Durant or some other superstar they are not really Laker fans.... There is a between level that he will most likely settle into as a pro.


Because their games are nothing alike. It's not really a mystery and Rudy Gay on realgm is a running joke for a guy who scores inefficiently and doesn't play defense which is what that guy is trying to troll with.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#307 » by the7boss » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:55 pm

Nice rebound game after the NYK disaster, Porzingis ate him alive.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#308 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:31 pm

Slava wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
Slava wrote:
When he plays poorly he's a bust then he plays well he gets these underhanded compliments. If you have nothing useful to post, don't post.


No offense here but what's wrong with being compared to Rudy Gay after 100 games? While not a franchise center piece he's still has been a very good player in the league. Gay was a 19-6 guy for a decade or more in the league. He shot well from mid-range to 3 and finished at the rim very well pre-injury. Actually it's a decent comparison offensively. At 21 Gay was a 20ppg player with 6 boards.

The way it seems here if someone doesn't compare him to Durant or some other superstar they are not really Laker fans.... There is a between level that he will most likely settle into as a pro.


Because their games are nothing alike. It's not really a mystery and Rudy Gay on realgm is a running joke for a guy who scores inefficiently and doesn't play defense which is what that guy is trying to troll with.


Even if it wasnt meant to be a shot at him, I just dont see the comparison at all when it comes to their play style. Ingram over the last month has basically averaged 18/6.5/4 on 46/37/70 shooting. The scoring, rebounds and shooting numbers are similar to Rudy but that is about it. Ingram is showing more ability to be a facilitator than Rudy ever has, defensively Rudy has always wasted his size and athleticism on that end and has always been a bad defender. Ingram is already playing better and more versatile defense than Rudy ever did.

Those 2 areas (facilitating and defense) have always kind of been the biggest negatives against Rudy. He never did those two things and thats why he has basically always been labeled and empty stat guy that doesnt help teams win. While Ingram's defense and facilitating has been a big part of his game over the last month.

Plus offensively, while their numbers look similar the way they got their shots were very different. There are multiple seasons where close to a 1/4 of Rudy's shots came from the 16ft<3 area which is the worst shot to take. Rudy's career high for % of his shots at the rim is 31% (that was the only time where at least 30% of his shots came at the rim), Ingram this year is taking 42% of his shots at the rim. This has led to Ingram's FTr being at .39, compare that to Rudy who's career average FTr is .28. This also leads to Ingram having a better chance to become a really efficient scorer.

I just didnt get the comparison because they are very different players.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#309 » by snaquille oatmeal » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:45 pm

all this gay talk makes me nostalgic for Gay Love Sessions
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#310 » by Landsberger » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:00 am

Slava wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
Slava wrote:
When he plays poorly he's a bust then he plays well he gets these underhanded compliments. If you have nothing useful to post, don't post.


No offense here but what's wrong with being compared to Rudy Gay after 100 games? While not a franchise center piece he's still has been a very good player in the league. Gay was a 19-6 guy for a decade or more in the league. He shot well from mid-range to 3 and finished at the rim very well pre-injury. Actually it's a decent comparison offensively. At 21 Gay was a 20ppg player with 6 boards.

The way it seems here if someone doesn't compare him to Durant or some other superstar they are not really Laker fans.... There is a between level that he will most likely settle into as a pro.


Because their games are nothing alike. It's not really a mystery and Rudy Gay on realgm is a running joke for a guy who scores inefficiently and doesn't play defense which is what that guy is trying to troll with.


Running joke on GM is relevant? Not sure I agree on that. GM has players way over and under rated based on a lot of crazy stuff.

For me, at this point, I think it's a fairly decent comparison. Gay is/was much more athletic and most of the knocks on him are about how he didn't develop into a franchise player. The player he has been isn't garbage by many measures.

The bigger gripe is the attack of anyone who doesn't have a point of view that our young guys are anything other than future franchise players seems to be the norm. There are only 8 or so of those guys in the league and any comparison that doesn't end there is always targeted by many.

Anyway, Ingram is progressing nicely. Still inconsistent and still struggles in situations but his overall game is improving faster than the scoring which is very encouraging.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#311 » by Landsberger » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:19 am

Duke4life831 wrote:
Slava wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
No offense here but what's wrong with being compared to Rudy Gay after 100 games? While not a franchise center piece he's still has been a very good player in the league. Gay was a 19-6 guy for a decade or more in the league. He shot well from mid-range to 3 and finished at the rim very well pre-injury. Actually it's a decent comparison offensively. At 21 Gay was a 20ppg player with 6 boards.

The way it seems here if someone doesn't compare him to Durant or some other superstar they are not really Laker fans.... There is a between level that he will most likely settle into as a pro.


Because their games are nothing alike. It's not really a mystery and Rudy Gay on realgm is a running joke for a guy who scores inefficiently and doesn't play defense which is what that guy is trying to troll with.


Even if it wasnt meant to be a shot at him, I just dont see the comparison at all when it comes to their play style. Ingram over the last month has basically averaged 18/6.5/4 on 46/37/70 shooting. The scoring, rebounds and shooting numbers are similar to Rudy but that is about it. Ingram is showing more ability to be a facilitator than Rudy ever has, defensively Rudy has always wasted his size and athleticism on that end and has always been a bad defender. Ingram is already playing better and more versatile defense than Rudy ever did.

Those 2 areas (facilitating and defense) have always kind of been the biggest negatives against Rudy. He never did those two things and thats why he has basically always been labeled and empty stat guy that doesnt help teams win. While Ingram's defense and facilitating has been a big part of his game over the last month.

Plus offensively, while their numbers look similar the way they got their shots were very different. There are multiple seasons where close to a 1/4 of Rudy's shots came from the 16ft<3 area which is the worst shot to take. Rudy's career high for % of his shots at the rim is 31% (that was the only time where at least 30% of his shots came at the rim), Ingram this year is taking 42% of his shots at the rim. This has led to Ingram's FTr being at .39, compare that to Rudy who's career average FTr is .28. This also leads to Ingram having a better chance to become a really efficient scorer.

I just didnt get the comparison because they are very different players.


Different players.... yes. Different situations and different coaching and different expectations..... yes again. The shot numbers are good but without context of their team's offensive systems it's not complete. Gay had back to the basket bigs (Pau and Marc Gasol, and later Zack Randolph) and a very traditional slower paced deliberate offensive system. You don't get as many opportunities at the hoop when you are playing through a post player who is your centerpiece. Our system is conducive to both setting Ingram up with opportunities to slash and isolate. Gay was spreading the floor for the bigs in Memphis a lot of the time. To me, this is where the vacuum of stats and advanced stats have their gaps. Those stats do show that Gay didn't really improve within that system in shooting much if at all however. Ingram is improving through 100 games or so.

I don't disagree that Rudy and Ingram are not exactly alike.... then again no two players are.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#312 » by Duke4life831 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:41 am

Landsberger wrote:
Duke4life831 wrote:
Slava wrote:
Because their games are nothing alike. It's not really a mystery and Rudy Gay on realgm is a running joke for a guy who scores inefficiently and doesn't play defense which is what that guy is trying to troll with.


Even if it wasnt meant to be a shot at him, I just dont see the comparison at all when it comes to their play style. Ingram over the last month has basically averaged 18/6.5/4 on 46/37/70 shooting. The scoring, rebounds and shooting numbers are similar to Rudy but that is about it. Ingram is showing more ability to be a facilitator than Rudy ever has, defensively Rudy has always wasted his size and athleticism on that end and has always been a bad defender. Ingram is already playing better and more versatile defense than Rudy ever did.

Those 2 areas (facilitating and defense) have always kind of been the biggest negatives against Rudy. He never did those two things and thats why he has basically always been labeled and empty stat guy that doesnt help teams win. While Ingram's defense and facilitating has been a big part of his game over the last month.

Plus offensively, while their numbers look similar the way they got their shots were very different. There are multiple seasons where close to a 1/4 of Rudy's shots came from the 16ft<3 area which is the worst shot to take. Rudy's career high for % of his shots at the rim is 31% (that was the only time where at least 30% of his shots came at the rim), Ingram this year is taking 42% of his shots at the rim. This has led to Ingram's FTr being at .39, compare that to Rudy who's career average FTr is .28. This also leads to Ingram having a better chance to become a really efficient scorer.

I just didnt get the comparison because they are very different players.


Different players.... yes. Different situations and different coaching and different expectations..... yes again. The shot numbers are good but without context of their team's offensive systems it's not complete. Gay had back to the basket bigs (Pau and Marc Gasol, and later Zack Randolph) and a very traditional slower paced deliberate offensive system. You don't get as many opportunities at the hoop when you are playing through a post player who is your centerpiece. Our system is conducive to both setting Ingram up with opportunities to slash and isolate. Gay was spreading the floor for the bigs in Memphis a lot of the time. To me, this is where the vacuum of stats and advanced stats have their gaps. Those stats do show that Gay didn't really improve within that system in shooting much if at all however. Ingram is improving through 100 games or so.

I don't disagree that Rudy and Ingram are not exactly alike.... then again no two players are.


Okay even with all that said, I still don't see the comparison. Rudy Gay was a top tier athlete that didn't defend or facilitate and was a black hole on offense that lived shooting long mid range jumpers.

Ingram is very long but just a solid athlete not a top tier one. Ingram plays defense, he facilitates and does most of his damage on offense at or near the rim. I'm just not seeing the comparison at all.

For example Gay and Wiggins comparison makes sense. Great athletes that score in similar way but never really took advantage of their elite athleticism on the defensive side and don't really facilitate on offense.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#313 » by LakersSoul » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:21 am

karkinos wrote:he really hit his stride with shooting in the cavs game
mechanics look great
like magic said, the potential is there. just need time and experience. let him keep shooting


Breakdown of Ingram's game against Cavs and probably one of Ingram's best games. He is getting smarter and not forcing so much.


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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#314 » by Dloading99 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:07 am

Actually the guy who is attractive for Lebron to play with and makes the team the most attractive for Lebron to play with is Brandon Ingram. he's never played with like a Kawaii Leonard type of player. Lonzo ball is great. but playing with Brandon Ingram in his prime might get Lebron a couple of Championships. Ingram is a guy who can give Durant 32 and make Durant have to defend him. and actually make it where Lebron doesn't have to guard Durant. something Houston cannot offer. Lebron and Ingram together on a wing for Lonzo looks like a team a lot of teams wouldn't be able to defend. my opinion. I just like Ingram where he's at. we really don't need to bring in two wings just one. or Cousins for Ingram. really cool seeing this guy become a star.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#315 » by TylersLakers » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:24 am

I did this last year, so I'll update it this year:

Young Core's Stats Month of December:

Brandon Ingram: 18.0 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 3.8 APG, 0.8 SPG, 42% FG, 39% 3PT, 71% FT, 37 MPG
Lonzo Ball: 9.3 PPG, 7.0 APG, 6.5 RPG, 1.3 BPG, 1.5 SPG, 41% FG, 30% 3PT, 57% FT, 33 MPG
Kyle Kuzma: 14.8 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 1.2 APG, 1 SPG, 45% FG, 32% 3PT, 80% FT, 28 MPG
Julius Randle: 12.3 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 2.5 APG, 1 BPG, 56% FG, 17% 3PT, 60% FT, 24 MPG
Jordan Clarkson: 13.0 PPG, 3.0 RPG, 3.0 APG, 43% FG, 32% 3PT, 91% FT, 23 MPG

Would like to see Randle and Clarkson's minutes come up. KCP and Lopez go down.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#316 » by danfantastk32 » Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:11 am

Ingram is playing well, and it's great to see. He was brutal last year, and despite better scoring this season...his 13(ish) PER shows he's still far from elite.

But the growth continues....and that's really all that matters. I have faith in Ingram, but he has a long runway. It will be a year or two....then watch out.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#317 » by Landsberger » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:07 pm

danfantastk32 wrote:Ingram is playing well, and it's great to see. He was brutal last year, and despite better scoring this season...his 13(ish) PER shows he's still far from elite.

But the growth continues....and that's really all that matters. I have faith in Ingram, but he has a long runway. It will be a year or two....then watch out.


He's better at finishing this year. He's better at 3 point shooting as well (albeit on only 12% of his shots). Shooting from every other distance is worse this year than last. Why is he scoring more and shooting a better % overall? Because he's shooting shots he can make. 43% of his shots are at the hoop this year..... last year it was only 27%. That is the one area where he's improved his FG% the most as well.

This tells me he isn't necessarily getting better at shooting, it's more about knowing where he's better at it and getting to those spots.

This is evident in his up and down games as well. Most of his poor shooting games he's going up against strong and athletic front courts and be begins to settle for jumpers or has issues finishing. His good games he's in a more advantageous position and is able to get to the hoop and finish. The shots from 3' to the 3 point line are all falling at a lower % this year over last.

His 3 point shot is falling at a higher % but he's shooting only 12% of his shots from there vs 28% last year. My guess is that he's only shooting ones where he's open and in a rhythm this year over letting them fly regardless like he was a lot last year.

Just like Randle, the improvement in offensive performance isn't about developing better shooting skills as much as it's about learning where to shoot from and where to take less shots. These 2 are mostly responsible for our high ranking in points in the paint.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#318 » by TyCobb » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:09 pm

No offense to the work Ingram has put in, but %'s go up from the Zo effect. It's no secret we lead the league in points in paint--all due to the style we can play off him.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#319 » by Landsberger » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:09 pm

TylersLakers wrote:I did this last year, so I'll update it this year:

Young Core's Stats Month of December:

Brandon Ingram: 18.0 PPG, 6.5 RPG, 3.8 APG, 0.8 SPG, 42% FG, 39% 3PT, 71% FT, 37 MPG
Lonzo Ball: 9.3 PPG, 7.0 APG, 6.5 RPG, 1.3 BPG, 1.5 SPG, 41% FG, 30% 3PT, 57% FT, 33 MPG
Kyle Kuzma: 14.8 PPG, 8.5 RPG, 1.2 APG, 1 SPG, 45% FG, 32% 3PT, 80% FT, 28 MPG
Julius Randle: 12.3 PPG, 4.7 RPG, 2.5 APG, 1 BPG, 56% FG, 17% 3PT, 60% FT, 24 MPG
Jordan Clarkson: 13.0 PPG, 3.0 RPG, 3.0 APG, 43% FG, 32% 3PT, 91% FT, 23 MPG

Would like to see Randle and Clarkson's minutes come up. KCP and Lopez go down.


I'd like to see Clarkson finish games. I think he was advantage against the Knicks and he didn't play the last 4 minutes or any of the overtime. KCP seems to be locked in for 32+ minutes a game the last 10 games or so.
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Re: Ingram thread 

Post#320 » by Landsberger » Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:13 pm

TyCobb wrote:No offense to the work Ingram has put in, but %'s go up from the Zo effect. It's no secret we lead the league in points in paint--all due to the style we can play off him.


Yes. the uptempo offense has gotten him a lot of open dunks etc. But to say it's all because of Lonzo is not quite right either. A lot of Ingram's points this year have come from isolation or catch and drive situations that have little to do with Lonzo's differentiators.

This is similar for Randle who doesn't play with Lonzo that much.

These 2 have started attacking from the time they get the ball in the half court and that is different from last year. Each are finishing better as well.

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