The Venting Thread

[TylersLakers]

It's about time - I think we need one of these. And I'll apologize in advance, this may be lengthy. But after all, we're Lakers fans. For better or worse.

After watching that frustrating weekend of Lakers basketball, I couldn't help myself but be overcome with rage regarding everything going on in this organization. And maybe I'm being too overdramatic, but I only see a few positives regarding this team:

1- The potential of Lonzo, Ingram, Kuzma and Randle - And to a lesser extent Hart and Zubac.
2- The fact that we're the Los Angeles Lakers, and rumours about free agents.

However, that doesn't ignore the product that we're currently watching. There's so many frustrating things when watching this team, but it starts with absolutely awful roster construction. Once again, this team is loaded with way too many 4/5 men and not enough quality guards and wings. This falls on the laps of Earvin Johnson (not calling him "Magic" any longer) and Rob Pelinka. Initially, after being excited about Jim Buss being let go, I instantly had concerns regarding the experience in the front office. They've prioritized 2018 Free Agency at the expense of young talent, and it sounds as if that is not going to stop anytime soon. And in the meantime, we're doing a disservice to the current quality youth that we already have.

Our best players so far have easily been Kyle Kuzma and Julius Randle. It took a Larry Nance injury to get Kuzma in the starting line-up. Once Nance returned, Kuzma has gone back to the bench. And instead of shortening the rotation once he got back, we continued to find minutes for players like Corey Brewer and Andrew Bogut. Kuzma is a player that needs experience in every way that we can find it for him. And if that means 8-10 minutes a game at backup SF, then that's what needs to happen.

And that leads me to one of the most frustrating things about this season: Julius Randle.

Johnson and Pelinka talked so much at the end of the last season about "world class fitness" and "body fat" and about players being in shape. I don't think anyone took that to heart more than Julius Randle. The guy totally changed his body and it wasn't just normal summer time headlines. He's brought it onto the court and honestly, if we had a better record, he'd be a candidate for Defensive Player of the Year. Pretty much every defensive statistic has him near of the top of the list. He's one of the major reasons why this team has improved defensively.

How do we reward that? By sending him to the bench. And if that's not enough, how about playing him 20 MPG for the first 20 games of the season? Thanks for getting in shape, Julius. To make things even worse, let's trade him before the deadline so it gives us an extra 12 million to throw at max free agents, who probably aren't coming.

Another awful mismanagement of our young players, and I think this is one of the more awful things I've heard all season: Ivica Zubac. I'm not sure if anyone listens to the Locked on Lakers podcast but if you don't, they had a guest on today named Trevor Lane. He covers the Lakers and he spoke with Zubac a few weeks ago in Phoenix. He said Zubac was down and obviously not happy about his situation. Zubac had told him that the front office asked him after summer league to stay in Los Angeles over the summer instead of going home, because he was going to be "a big part of the team this year" and they needed him in the best shape possible. Zubac did. He stayed in Los Angeles and worked hard after his catastrophic summer league. A few days before training camp, they sign Andrew Bogut effectively eliminating any role that he potentially would have had. Thanks for getting in shape and committing yourself, Ivica.

Back to the roster construction. We're the worst three point shooting and free throw shooting team in the league. And we don't have a DeAndre Jordan, Dwight Howard or Andre Roberson on our team. Armed with a Room Exception in the off-season of 4.1M, we passed up on a lot of players who could have helped us. And before the season started, instead of letting players like Ivica Zubac and Thomas Bryant get playing time they deserved, we kept Andrew Bogut on the team and let players like Anthony Morrow, Mike Dunleavy, Brandon Rush, Deron Williams, Gerald Henderson, Ian Clark, and Randy Foye sit on the couch or get snapped up by other teams. Think a player like Lonzo Ball could use someone like Deron Williams in his ear on road trips?

Which brings me to my next huge complaint. And it revolves around Luke Walton and his inexperienced, frat party coaching staff. That may be harsh, but it's proving more and more to be true. The only experienced voice we have on this coaching staff is Brian Shaw, and when Shaw left the Lakers and Phil Jackson's staff, running an efficient offence or defence wasn't his forte. I do think Shaw was a nice hire as far as player development is concerned but as far as everything else, he had faults and that's why he was out of work when we hired Luke.

The rotations have been awful and well documented on this board. Corey Brewer should not be getting minutes over Randle, Kuzma, Hart, Lonzo, Clarkson, KCP, Ingram, etc. Bogut should not be getting minutes over Randle, Kuzma, Zubac, Bryant or Nance. We've prioritized players who in a perfect world, aren't going to be here next year (Bogut, Lopez, KCP, Brewer). Those rotation discussions could continue for a while. The amount of standing around in half court settings and the lack of movement from the weak side has been beat to death.

And this will be my final point: Lonzo Ball. Lonzo deserves some criticism, of course. He's having the worst shooting season in modern NBA history. He's not confident and his aggression needs to be better. However, Luke Walton and the coaching staff are doing him absolutely no favors. When I watched UCLA games in preparation for the draft, I saw Ball doing the exact same things that would make him successful with last years Lakers team. At UCLA, Ball would come off screens, take dribble hand offs (going left), they'd run pin downs for him, he'd catch lobs, he'd backcut the overplay for dunks/layups, etc. With the Lakers, if there's no options available in transition, he passes the ball to a wing or big on the elbow, and drifts away into the corner. Or he's getting a screen, the defenders are going under and he's shooting an open three. You can blame that on Lonzo Ball if you want, but I'll blame the coaching staff instead. If he's not running the actions he's supposed to be running, you sit him down. And that's never been talked about so clearly that isn't the issue. Get him in positions where the opposing D is chasing him and he has the option to drive to the hoop, or give it to a player like Ingram/KCP/Clarkson coming the other way from the weak side. We ran that type of action with Lou Williams and Clarkson so much last season. We ran DHO's with Julius Randle and it got Russell and Nick Young wide open looks. Where has it been?

And if we're expecting help to come after Dec. 15th arrives and all the free agents who signed with their teams would be eligible to be dealt? Think again. There's not many deals to be made when you don't want to take on salary past the current season in a league that's pretty much capped out and draft picks are at a premium.

Anyways, curious to know others thoughts. Am I being too negative regarding the state of this team? Fire away.

[Showtime:Part2]

eh, idk about the coaching culture, but i am unhappy with luke bc of his rotations and allocations of playing time. they are awful.

[XXBKXX]

Boy could I use a venting session!

(DEEP BREATH IN....)

As for the season and overall team play.. the frustrating part is that, on paper, we are actually a good team. We should be a little north of 500 and be in the mix for the 8th seed. We also have 3 players (Ingram/clarkson/Randle) having career years. To the teams credit they are showing up every night and giving solid effort/energy.. However The little things are killing them : free throws, TOs, 3 pt shooting.

These losses imo fall on Luke and the coaching staff. Whether it be his crazy rotations, his super chill approach, or style of play.... Luke HAS to find a way to get wins.. Because whatever's going on right now is clearly NOT working. Denver right now is 13-10 and are in 7th seed. Denvers roster is crap.. I would take our roster over their roster 100 times out of 100. And I dont think im being a homer in saying so. We have more talent in my opinion but they're able to get the wins. Id like to see Luke make the necessary tweaks and changes to his offense to play to our strengths.. He's not doing that.. He has me seriously doubting his Xs and Os ability.

Luke was linked with Brad Stevens as the two young up and coming coaches.. well, in his second year with the Celts Stevens finished in the 7th seed and went 40-42 after only winning 25 games the year before. Granted it's the East but we have a much more talented roster than they had. The Celts hate aside, Brad Stevens runs a disciplined team that can flawlessly run their offensive sets. I watched a breakdown of his schemes on YouTube and it's impressive how they run their half court sets. His schemes are so intricate it kind of reminds me of what Sean Mcvay is doing with the rams.. I cannot say that about Luke right now.

Beyond the team play, I'm beyond frustrated with Zo. I wasn't behind the pick to begin with. I wanted DSJ, JJ, or Taytum. For the most part, i was tired of having the rookie that we had to be patient with while watching other rookies tear it up... I was scared that that would be Zo.. I also wanted an alpha dog scoring player which we sorely lacked on this team. Lonzo was not that in college. He's good at pushing pace but he wasn't a bucket-getter. One thing that kept me on board with the pick was that he was a good shooter (even with his ugly form). Well, that certainly hasn't translated... and beyond that, I can't believe how soft Zo is. He just doesn't have that "dog" in him. He's 6'6 but let's oompa lumpa Marcus smart block his layup because he insists to attack the rim with a soft ass layup. Seriously, his ppg will increase by at least 6 pts when he finally figures out he can dunk the ball on his drives. The defense will give him that all day as they're more worried about the pass.

So while we are watching Zo brick open 3s (that he made in college) and attack the rim like a vagina -- Dennis Smith Jr is killing it and Taytum just had a 16 pt fourth quarter tonight. If it wasn't for Kuzma, this draft could have been disastrous for us. Yes it's still early and Zo will probably turn it around just like BI did. But still... its super frustrating when looking at how the team and specifically Zo is playing right now. The icing on the cake is that after all this, we are most likely going to have to watch Celts get our pick which could be top5... ughhhhhhh.. FML

(DEEP BREATH OUT....)

[hazy_01]

Start Kuzma and bench Nance please and wtf happend to Lopez? He's playing like Bargnani right now chucking up 3's with 20 seconds left on the shot clock. I might just get an aneurysm from him one day.

[SlimShady83]

Luke's rotations and decision making puzzles me at times ... Not knowing when and who to bench, when to put in hustle energy type of guys also a downer. I know his a rookie coach and coaching a young team etc, but these guys are pro's know the game inside and out have all the help in the world and can't figure out simple things such as rotations and when and who to put in - like really you're really gonna let KCP let loose on offense and shoot more then anyone?

Nance should only start if it's at center and too replace Lolpez his too inconsistent to have as a starter with this unit, would rather have Nance at C and Kuz at PF

hmm that's enough for me, for now.

[Laker_Kid]

yeah, i need to vent out that we lost 5 games we should have won. don't want to make this a blaming thread. but the lineups we have on the floor especially in the final stretch of games is head-scratching sometimes. Like Clarkson having a good game and suddenly replaced by Ball to finish. And Lopez, even though he won us a game or two, also caused us some guys because he decided to disappear. IMO, we need a few more shakeups in our roster before we can finally settle into our identity.

[johnx]

Lopez is terrible maybe just give Thomas Bryant some of his minutes

[Dloading99]

Magic magic man magic Johnson

This guy told us we were going to win. Cool magic you don't want jerry west cool all I wanted was the value of our young talent there are laker fans that don't want to talk about trades and whatever magic does is great. So we won't mention players but I'll say this when you trade the three point shooting you might want to get three point shooting you might want to draft three point shooters we were doing what philly was doing. Look what they did. Did they trade talent? And we keep talking about free agents I'm starting to think know one in this organization knows what they're doing like doesn't know shlit. I used to think Ryan west did but maybe he's a glorified yes man hire Sam presti. We are not going to bring any free agents this roster looks horrible nobody compliments anybody kupchack drafted Ingram and you would think magic would draft a compliment jayson Tatum but he drafted the face of the lakers.


Hey lonzo if you're gonna come in and say the team needs a leader then walk the walk play like you want to ball. Don't play timid and all the ESPN bull that's why they are commentators are basketball exec magic went for it and I'm assuming people like Luke were like we shouldn't draft him and magic pushed for the 2nd workout and said were drafting him but really were is the draft preparation were royally flucked if he busts. all I hear from lavar is this is the best guy in the draft we as laker fans how did we get duped we got Steve Alford when Reggie miller got picked in the same draft.



Big baller big baller liagelo looks like a better shooter then lonzo really magic this was the plan feel up the roster full of the ball brothers. Damn Brandon Ingram is a beast a great talent to watch. Lonzo you gotta show the lakers fans something jimmer ed obannon Johnny Flynn nick stauskas Kendall Marshall Trajon Langdon miles Simon I've seen this story before



No more excuses from the fans no more well he's learning the games no more the lakers gotta coach him better lonzo step up go to the basket and start scoring man. We used the number two pick on you. Face of the Lakers that's Brandon Ingram. We still got that cap space lebron is coming. Just like Kevin durant. Magic says he can sign star players. They all want to play for the lakers.

[Lakernut4ever]

Luke's stupid rotations are to blame...he seems clueless on how to stop other teams except Golden State(which we were competitive)

[Ball so hard]

I’ve been critical of Luke so I’m not going to repeat that here. I do find it interesting that in one year, Lopez has become a certified scrub. The drop off in his play is truly breathtaking. I doubt he’s suddenly forgotten how to be effective on offense. I do not think he’s being used correctly... this is similar to how Dantoni turned Pau (an effective post scorer) into a full time face up player. I wish more coaches tailored their system around their personnel, rather than force their players to change (sometimes radically change) their game. I get it, very few coaches do that these days.

[The Skyhook]

I'm worried these loses are going to pile up and cause the team to lose motivation on the defensive end. We need a stretch of wins bad because if these guys stop giving effort on defense, this season is going to spiral out of control fast.

[iQon]

This will probably be our toughest month on our schedule for the entire season.

It is what it is. Our team is young and it already shows. We'll see if they have any type of resolve after getting punched in the mouth for the first time in their basketball lives.

[Laker_Kid]

just friggin start Kuzma already. why does it have to be so difficult??? ugh

Lopez Kuzma BI KCP Lonzo
Nance Randle Brewer Hart Clarkson

[TylersLakers]

I love this thread. Maybe it'll get stickied.

LET IT OUT LAKERS FANS!

[TyCobb]

Our fans

[One Love]

Luke is going to LOSE his respect from his squad if he keeps screwing with the lineups... Our 2nd unit routinely beats the 1st unit in practices... Start Kuzz & give Nance some backup minutes at the 5... Hart shouldn’t see the floor in the 4th... These are very simple solutions and very clear...

[TylersLakers]

Lopez is terrible maybe just give Thomas Bryant some of his minutes

When does Luke get to the point where instead of playing Lopez, we play Zubac/Bryant?

My main problem with that question when I ask myself that is why not now? This year shouldn't be about the playoffs. If the playoffs come, great. If not, oh well. It should be about developing the youth and putting them in positions to be successful. If all goes well, Lopez will not be here next year. And to make things worse, instead of giving back-up and spot minutes to Bryant or Zubac, it's going to Bogut!

If I was Earvin Johnson, I'd do the following:

- Waive Tyler Ennis, Andrew Bogut
- Sign Deron Williams, Mike Dunleavy -- Two veterans in positions of need. Both are quality 3PT shooters.
- If trade opportunities come up with Larry Nance, seriously evaluate them.
- Lonzo/Clarkson/Ingram/Kuzma/Randle as the starting group, with KCP/Lopez (for now)/Hart/Nance off the bench. If Nance is dealt, that opens up spot minutes for someone like Dunleavy/Zubac/Bryant.

[meetbishop]

just friggin start Kuzma already. why does it have to be so difficult??? ugh

Lopez Kuzma BI KCP Lonzo
Nance Randle Brewer Hart Clarkson

What about Clarkson? Doesn't he deserve a start also? Or since he is not a 1st round pick he is doomed in the NBA? We need to win some games more than we need to build players confidence. Lonzo needs to sit!! He is not ready to start. In fact him starting from the bench will help build his confidence since he will be playing against lesser competition.

[TylersLakers]

Our fans

Come on Ty, I know there's some rage inside you just waiting to come out!

As Jerry Seinfeld would say, "It's fun to talk!"

[TyCobb]

I can't! Mine would be a poster call out hahah.

Long story short, stop the overreaction everywhere...rookies players and rookie coaches on the job learning.. we'll be better for it in the long run.