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Cap Space plan has players frustrated

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Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#1 » by dockingsched » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:47 pm

This was bound to happen with young players and a front office so unapologetic about wanting to create cap room

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This might get worse after the trade deadline when it starts to set in for some that they’re simply playing for a contract or to raise off-season trade value with no real future with the team.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#2 » by TyCobb » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:06 pm

My reaction was nearly identical for this, so I figured I'd just respond with it :) :

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I'd stop after 'words', but close enough. Kind of hoping they do something at the deadline with the guys they don't want longterm so we can get this off the team. We already have two large expiring in KCP and Brook, so the FA swap this offseason is already in place. Time to start prepping the rest of the core and team so we don't have a negative influence around.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#3 » by jigga_man » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:33 pm

Maybe there is locker room tension but I don't see how it affected the last game. Both Randle & Clarkson played really well against Portland in limited minutes. Kuzma & Ball are the ones that struggled the most and they're undoubtedly a part of the future.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#4 » by tugs » Sun Dec 24, 2017 4:30 pm

JC and JR are professionals, I won't be surprised. Also, if they pout, they know they'll be in the doghouse if they're not dealt.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#5 » by dub81 » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:04 pm

When you have Alex Caruso and Thomas Bryant playing crucial minutes, you know what Luke is trying to do now. It's about developing players and seeing what they have. It's not about winning right now.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#6 » by MelosSoreWrist » Sun Dec 24, 2017 5:38 pm

jigga_man wrote:Maybe there is locker room tension but I don't see how it affected the last game. Both Randle & Clarkson played really well against Portland in limited minutes. Kuzma & Ball are the ones that struggled the most and they're undoubtedly a part of the future.

Yup this can basically only be about JR and JC. They probably are peeved they are about to be shuttled out for free agents. But this isnt a unique situation to nba players. The whole team shouldnt be affected by this. KCP knew exactly what he was getting into when he signed the 1 year contract. Its what he wanted since he couldnt find a long term contract elsewhere. Lakers did him a favor.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#7 » by Landsberger » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:02 pm

MelosSoreWrist wrote:
jigga_man wrote:Maybe there is locker room tension but I don't see how it affected the last game. Both Randle & Clarkson played really well against Portland in limited minutes. Kuzma & Ball are the ones that struggled the most and they're undoubtedly a part of the future.

Yup this can basically only be about JR and JC. They probably are peeved they are about to be shuttled out for free agents. But this isnt a unique situation to nba players. The whole team shouldnt be affected by this. KCP knew exactly what he was getting into when he signed the 1 year contract. Its what he wanted since he couldnt find a long term contract elsewhere. Lakers did him a favor.


Clarkson has a legitimate issue IMHO. He took less and didn't even look elsewhere when he was up to be re-signed. I'm sure he was given some assurances that if he elevated his play he'd have a future here. Clarkson has been a differentiator in many of our wins and I think even the most down on him are taking another look with his play this year.

Magic is a rookie in his position and he's made a lot of rookie mistakes yappin' in the press. This is where 99% of this is starting.

...as for KCP knowing what he was "getting" into.... he is serving a jail sentence, making over 17M and playing below average for his position while being paid well above average. I want into these situations....

In the end, Luke, Clarkson, Randle and even Ingram are all choices made before the Magic regime started. My guess is that if he gets what he wants completely we could see a lot or most of those guys gone by this time next year.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#8 » by Michael Lucky » Sun Dec 24, 2017 7:15 pm

No surprise really. It must suck to play for a team in which management is so forward about not wanting you there.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#9 » by TheHartBreakKid » Sun Dec 24, 2017 11:54 pm

Honestly, there are two players that have a right to be frustrated, and two players only.

Out of the players affected by this capspace plan, KCP actually chose this life, so he has no right to complain. Then you have Brewer who is a vetern/journey man who is a bench player at best, so he should know better than to be pouting. Lopez surely knows about the league atthis point, and he's gotten every opportunity to play despite playing like crap, and he shouldn't feel any loyalty to the Lakers considering he's been here for half a season.



So these two players, of course, are Clarkson and Randle, with one of them being way more justified if he was unhappy and pouting, and that is Randle. A third guy in Deng might have a point too, but he's not even with the team anymore, so he's irrelevant.


Clarkson's right to be frustrated comes from the fact that FO has been very clear about him needing to be traded for this two max plan to work. Then you have the fact that he has arguably been outplaying KCP, yet he doesn't finish any of the games (unless he's finishing for Lonzo) with the Laker FO/Coaching staff seemingly doing their best to kiss KCP and Rich Paul's ass.All that said, I could see why he's frustrated, but I think he should man up....atleast his financial situation is set in stone, and he's getting a very respectable number of minutes and has a clear role in this team.


Randle, however, has every right to be frustrated. He's been getting dicked around all season, in the most important season of his career, and it's not because he's been a poor player, or because he hasn't done what's asked of him.


Randle worked hard this off season...I think even some of his biggest critics (such as myself) have to admit that. He worked hard on his body, first and foremost, and the results are damn impressive in terms of the impact it's had on his game. Despite his lack of real imporvement in his shooting, I also do believe he worked in that area as well...I think his form and mechanics are what's holding him back.

Most importantly, desptie being sent to the bench in the most important year of his career, he showed major imporvement in his attitude and his effort, clearly being evident in the change of energy whenever he comes in the game, and in the very tangible difference in defense, both team wise, and from RAndle individually.

Finally, you have the fact that Kuzma isn't even the main reason for Randle not getting enough minutes...if that's the case then it would be understandable considering how good Kuz has been. Randle has had Bogut playing ahead of him off the bench despite how good Randle has been against backup 5's, and also Nance seemingly have his spot in the rotation set despite how poor he plays and how good JR plays. Finally, there is the lack of consistency....Luke has been all over the place regarding his rotations with Julius, seemingly with it having little to do with actually how he is playing, and a lot to do with secret reasons that only Luke knows about.



So combine all of that with the fact that Julius is 23-24, and is in a very unclear situation financially as well, and you can't blame the guy for pouting. It's a business yeah, but as some point the player has a right to be upset. I would hope that we either trade him asap or atleast have some form of clear consistency regarding his role and future. The treatment right now screams of purposefully trying to decrease his value in case things don't go our way in the FA and we can retain him for cheap....and honestly that's more than normal business practices at that point....that's sketchy Danny Ainge business practices, and I personally don't support that from the FO..I'm glad they are more business minded incomparison to the past regime, but culture, loyalty, etc absoloutely matter, and are a huge part of what makes the Lakers the Lakers. I don't want us to become Morey's Rockets or Ainge's Celtics or Hinkies Sixers, even if those teams have made a lot of great business decisions as of late.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#10 » by LAKESHOW » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:19 am

You can only control what you can control. Players facing expiring contracts didn't just happen in 2017. Free agency hits teams every year. Play for each other as teammates. Give it all you have. And like Kobe said, enjoy the journey. Value the process, your development.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#11 » by thankyouKOBE » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:40 am

Can't say I blame 'em! Jeanie, Magic & Pelinka are putting all eggs into a single basket next summer. Has that much changed since they struck out last time and made horrible mistakes instead? Mosgov was okay, I thought, but then they dealt him with D'Lo. I like Lonzo, and kudos for Kuzma, but this whole "trade everybody but Ingram and Lonzo (is Kuzma safe?)" just so they can enter the LeBron sweepstakes is so foolhardy.

Paul George would be cool, I guess, but why not just settle for one star? Why go for broke and trade away half the team when this team hasn't even been able to land a single marquee free agent in recent memory?

My friend and I were discussing this. Maybe they can nab Cousins in a trade or trade with OKC for George. My friend doesn't want Cousins around the youngsters, and I kind of agree. But they didn't sign Rondo instead of KCP, and I wish they had. Lonzo having 20 points and 4-6 assists is not very promising. Guys on the Nets can drop 20 (Allen Crabbe, Spencer Dinwiddie). It's about putting together a cohesive unit on the court. Some guys aren't even getting playing time at this point. I know they're practicing and training, but if it's not in live mode, it's not as helpful when games that matter happen in real time in this league.

Now, they admit they're stuck with Deng so quit screwing around and stretch waive him today, not this August. I wish they'd traded him instead of Mozgov, honestly. Guess the Nets didn't bite. Anyway, maybe they'll trade for Marc Gasol or someone like that. But my friend and I were having trouble picking big name free agents that are actually worth a damn moving forward. It's nice to see them go at Golden State and look competitive. Kuzma has been a nice surprise, but the front office needs to be more aggressive and actually determine a vision for this team.

"Go all-in at free agency" is not a plan. What kind of team are we going to be? I think they should be an up-tempo, ball-movement oriented team. Get some actual quality, reliable shooters from 3PT range and get a solid center/rim protector down low to help balance things out. I really don't see how fishing for LeBron helps this team. He's terrific, sure, but do you really see him making Lonzo and Ingram better? Paul George would be a solid contributor, and less of a headache. Who else is even available next summer?

Lonzo is the point guard, so that thins the herd. We're not going to sign Durant, let's be real. Cousins is the most logical choice. Isiah Thomas might be worth thinking about, but I dunno how he'd fit with Lonzo and being a liability on defense. DeAndre Jordan is a great dunker and rebounder and kinda sorta shot blocker, that's it. We need scoring, seriously. It would be overdue justice if Chris Paul chose to sign with us, but again, Lonzo's Show. Aaron Gordon has sparked severely, and will command a long term deal. Avery Bradley played for the enemy, but he's a solid defender and is starting to be more of a scorer. Then you got your Carmelos, Jabari Parkers, Zach LaVines--lots of losing and injuries here--Marcus Smart is decent, KCP has not earned a second contract with us yet...

Really, look at this list, guys.

http://hoopshype.com/2017/11/08/nba-free-agency-2018-the-top-players/

Are the Lakers seeing something I'm not? It's not THAT great. You already have reports of Magic saying "hmm 2019 looks interesting" so why fire sale the team?
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#12 » by tugs » Mon Dec 25, 2017 10:40 am

Can't help but think Luke playing Alex, TBryant is a way of looking of what he has and easing them into the rotation before Clarkson and Randle are dealt.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#13 » by Dr Aki » Mon Dec 25, 2017 11:50 am

frankly, magic and pelinka needs to clear at least some of the logjam before the trade deadline

it would make forecasting future direction a lot easier to predict
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#14 » by Landsberger » Mon Dec 25, 2017 5:38 pm

tugs wrote:Can't help but think Luke playing Alex, TBryant is a way of looking of what he has and easing them into the rotation before Clarkson and Randle are dealt.


Yup. I also think the stint in the G league for Zubac where he was dominant was to show his value as a sweetener in any deal.

I only hope we find a taker for Lopez and get some value from him. He's not going to be here next year unless we strike out big time in FA and his game isn't what it used to be.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#15 » by TylersLakers » Mon Dec 25, 2017 6:44 pm

The cap space plan has always been awful, it's just now that Luke, Earvin & Rob are figuring it out. That's why Earvin backtracked in that interview with Spectrum.

The plan should be:

1) Play the young core major minutes together. That includes:

- Lonzo Ball
- Brandon Ingram
- Kyle Kuzma
- Julius Randle
- Jordan Clarkson
- Josh Hart
- Ivica Zubac
- Thomas Bryant

If that leaves KCP and Brook Lopez playing no minutes, I'm fine with that. Shut your mouths, emphasize the young core, and develop them.

2) Keep flexibility:

- Don't sign Luol Deng/Mozgov types to major deals in the off-season. Try to bring in a max player with the salary cap space we already have.

- Attempt to land a max player with the salary cap space we already have. If Paul George comes, great. If he doesn't, sign team friendly deals to players who can come in and make a difference. Re-sign Randle.

- If we get an agreement to two max players, make the necessary moves to get the cap space done.

The way they're going about it now is awful. Leaking information to Rob's right hand man (Wojnarowski), openly talking about two max free agents when we don't have the space, playing veterans over young guys (Bogut, KCP, Lopez), etc. An absolute mess.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#16 » by Michael Lucky » Mon Dec 25, 2017 7:35 pm

Ugh Randle should not be plan B especially considering the contract he will probably receive. I rather keep the cap space.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#17 » by Jody Smokz » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:46 pm

What contract is that? Not many teams have cap space and the ones that do aren't exactly the ones that are going to offer Randle the bulk of it. Im sure he can be retained at about 4years 50M at the min to 60M at the max. TJ Warren got 4year 50M and Covington got 4 years 60M. Randle should fall somewhere in that spectrum. That is not a bad price for what he's shown this year.

Michael Lucky wrote:Ugh Randle should not be plan B especially considering the contract he will probably receive. I rather keep the cap space.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#18 » by Michael Lucky » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:48 pm

Jody Smokz wrote:What contract is that? Not many teams have cap space and the ones that do aren't exactly the ones that are going to offer Randle the bulk of it. Im sure he can be retained at about 4years 50M at the min to 60M at the max. TJ Warren got 4year 50M and Covington got 4 years 60M. Randle should fall somewhere in that spectrum. That is not a bad price for what he's shown this year.

Michael Lucky wrote:Ugh Randle should not be plan B especially considering the contract he will probably receive. I rather keep the cap space.

Bigs tend to get bigger contracts than Wing players. Even at the price you set, i don't want him. You can't fill your roster with above average players in order to contend.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#19 » by Landsberger » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:10 pm

Michael Lucky wrote:
Jody Smokz wrote:What contract is that? Not many teams have cap space and the ones that do aren't exactly the ones that are going to offer Randle the bulk of it. Im sure he can be retained at about 4years 50M at the min to 60M at the max. TJ Warren got 4year 50M and Covington got 4 years 60M. Randle should fall somewhere in that spectrum. That is not a bad price for what he's shown this year.

Michael Lucky wrote:Ugh Randle should not be plan B especially considering the contract he will probably receive. I rather keep the cap space.

Bigs tend to get bigger contracts than Wing players. Even at the price you set, i don't want him. You can't fill your roster with above average players in order to contend.


I agree. The production from where it happens with Randle isn't that hard to find in the NBA. If we were a complete and balanced team I'd be inclined to think differently but as it sits he's not a guy you cement in our lineup until the other pieces are in place.

Randle hasn't improved his shooting at all. He's just taking more shots at the hoop. His percentages from the "face up" spots tracked all show not improvement, in fact they show regression. He's shooting much better from 0-3' this year and he's taking more shots from there. That's improvement in decision making not necessarily shooting. Defensively he's been versatile as an on ball defender but often the team aspects of defense are not there.

I like the guy, I like the effort but I wouldn't spend big to keep him in our current situation. I would trade him if we can get a decent return or rid ourselves of Deng.

My other concern with him is that the effort we've seen this year really hasn't been there for the last 2 at any consistency. Combine that with his obvious drive for a new contract and If I offered him a contract it would be for no more than 3 years before I got options.
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Re: Cap Space plan has players frustrated 

Post#20 » by Jody Smokz » Tue Dec 26, 2017 8:14 pm

You obviously haven't been paying attention to the recent big market. Wings right now are at a premium and bigs are in oversupply. The Mavs may offer him a good offer but I doubt they over pay. You need the right stars to contend and a balanced roster. Randle is a bit better than average.

I don't believe the idea of adding 2 max players and 1 of them NOT being Lebron is going to put this team in "true" contention. Boogie Cousins is the last max player they need to add if they truly want to contend. Also having faith in the growth of the young guys

If BI, Kuz and Ball are continuing to get better you dont want to add 2 max HIGH USAGE to that. 1 is great, preferably Lebron, realistically Paul George but adding 2 and 1 of them isn't Lebron to keep the team focused on winning won't yield the results most want.

Michael Lucky wrote:
Jody Smokz wrote:What contract is that? Not many teams have cap space and the ones that do aren't exactly the ones that are going to offer Randle the bulk of it. Im sure he can be retained at about 4years 50M at the min to 60M at the max. TJ Warren got 4year 50M and Covington got 4 years 60M. Randle should fall somewhere in that spectrum. That is not a bad price for what he's shown this year.

Michael Lucky wrote:Ugh Randle should not be plan B especially considering the contract he will probably receive. I rather keep the cap space.

Bigs tend to get bigger contracts than Wing players. Even at the price you set, i don't want him. You can't fill your roster with above average players in order to contend.

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