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Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:40 am
by Naero
After enduring our losingest seasons under Byron Scott from 2014-2016, the Lakers have measurably improved under his successor, having added onto their previous-win total by 9 wins each season under Luke Walton. There's still a long way to trek before they're renascently title-contending, but it's conclusible enough that we're no longer in the ninth circle as Lakers fans.

It is the most precarious position to hire for the team because it's naturally fraught with wildcards as to how the coach will jell with his team; naturally, it's also the jumpiest, as us Lakers fans can attest to, having seen the stead switch hands 4 times this decade so far. Walton will be longer-tenured than his last-three predecessors according to the front office, who have repeatedly declared him as their "coach of the future;" now, with two seasons under his tenure in the books, I'm curious to see how the fanbase feels about it.

As for my personal stance...

I'm all but sold on Walton as our long-term head coach at this point. Having been chastened by our recent years in the doldrums, I've become much more appreciative of whatever modicum of success we find in the regular season at this stage, and I would have found it fanciful to expect much more than 35 wins with our roster's unseasoned youth and fitful health.

Where do I see Luke Walton's fingerprints on our upsurgent success?

1. Defense.

A team's defense—the good and the bad—is primordially attributable to the coaching staff, as it behooves them to not only architect the defensive schemes but to motivate players to buy in it—easier said than done with the typical immaturities and egos of a rebuilding team. A roster's personnel can palliate defensive deficiencies, but the onus of teamwork logistics is mainly on the coach.

As such, it's no coincidence that our defensive culture deteriorated with the turnover of coaches we've been subjected to this decade, plummeting to the bottom rung once our last title-contention team (to put it liberally) disformed in 2013. Every coach rightly proclaimed it as a priority to improve the team's defense in these rebuilding efforts; but it was more platitudinous than substantive under Byron Scott, whose team was ranked dead-last on that end of the floor by his termination in 2016.

This continued throughout Luke's first season; and I started having misgivings towards him because of it, but they've been banished this season where we've finally seen appreciable improvement on that end. We're now ranked 13th in defensive efficiency—a mountainous improvement from dead-last in the previous season and the biggest attributability to our improved win total. The defensive personnel deserves credit—namely Brook Lopez (good rim-protector), KCP, and Lonzo Ball (he's been a nice revelation on that end of the floor), but the needle wouldn't have moved that meteorically if Walton weren't upholding his own role as coach.

Do I think Luke Walton will be an elite defensive coach? Probably not, since he seems to be too mellow to maximize his team's intensity; however, it didn't prevent Phil Jackson from forging a championship-acceptable defensive culture, and I think Luke is intelligent enough of a coach to devise sound defensive schemes while doing enough to motivate his players to buy into it.

Lakers still had their inconsistencies on that end this year, but it's a great upgrade from being consistently putrid on it for all of the previous-four seasons.

2. Rapport-building and player development.

As a young, millennial-friendly coach, the players seem to have been nothing but supportive towards Luke. He's been the good cop to contrast from the bad cop in his predecessor, as Byron Scott repeatedly impugned his players' efforts in the press-conference probably just as much as, if not more than, in the locker-room—and indelicately enough that his players didn't always mince their words with him when it was their turn on the podium.

Diplomacy is an indispensable skill for coach, because they are the biggest adversary of player egos. Walton has shown to be the type of coach that players can banter with and be lavished with praise on, but they still sense his gravitas whenever he needs to hold them accountable; that makes his criticism all the more respectable to them, as some have noted him as the type of coach you'd want to play hard for just to avoid disappointing.

Convincing players to buy into a system is just as vital for devising the system itself, which Luke Walton has shown the expressive leadership to do.

3. Walton's own upside.

Remember that Luke Walton is a project in his own right; as the youngest coach in the league with only a smattering of prior head-coaching experience under his belt before this tenure, he has similar upgrowth to be done as his players do. I personally wished he had at least 2-3 more assistant-coaching years under his belt moving into the head-coaching gig, but it won't bog him down from improving while he already has his foot in the door.

As a studious and open-minded coach, his own prime has yet to come. Naturally, he still has his own shortcomings as a coach, but they are much more endurable when they can be considered growing pains rather than rigid flaws that would more likely be entrenched in much older, better-tenured coaches.

Working in the shadows of Phil Jackson and Steve Kerr, he's already had a wealth of empirical insight moving into the role, and everything about his personality has indicated to me that he's pliable enough to continue improving. What he already knows has helped usher this franchise in the right direction, and what he currently doesn't know can, and likely will, be learned as he grows with his team.

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:23 am
by Landsberger
I'm undecided. He still puts youngsters, who need consistency, in constantly changing lineups. He seems to play favorites for no reason as well. Why Bogut, KCP and Lopez played as much as they did is odd given the "development" year designation by the FO.

We're a 35 win team. Does he have the strategy, sophistication and ability to coach if we were actually a contender with all the pressure that comes with that? That's the rub for me. It's completely different when you are expected to lose 45 to 50 games.... when that's turned around and anything less than 50 is a failure is when we'll find out what we have.

The coach isn't the issue to getting us back to the top IMHO. We need the vet players to mix with youth. When that happens we'll find out abut Luke.

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:28 am
by danfantastk32
Landsberger wrote:I'm undecided. He still puts youngsters, who need consistency, in constantly changing lineups. He seems to play favorites for no reason as well. Why Bogut, KCP and Lopez played as much as they did is odd given the "development" year designation by the FO.

We're a 35 win team. Does he have the strategy, sophistication and ability to coach if we were actually a contender with all the pressure that comes with that? That's the rub for me. It's completely different when you are expected to lose 45 to 50 games.... when that's turned around and anything less than 50 is a failure is when we'll find out what we have.

The coach isn't the issue to getting us back to the top IMHO. We need the vet players to mix with youth. When that happens we'll find out abut Luke.


Agree with much of that. Listen....I am very happy with Luke, but there are a couple points to bring up: A) Scott didn't have a chance is hell with the team he was given. The Lakers were trying to milk the remainder of Kobe's star-power, while desperately hoping some super-star would join. Luke was given the team at he moment we officially quit lying to ourselves, and went full rebuild.

B) We've made some gains....but we're far from elite. And as Landsberger points out...let's see what this guy has come the 'real season'.

With that said....I am perfectly happy with how he's doing. Yeah....he's learning. But so is 90% of this squad. The team has had GREAT rapport with each-other. The ball is moving (one of Luke's themes) and the defense has actually become semi-respectable.

There is much work to do...and room to grow. But I think we'd be fools to dump Luke at this point. Things are moving up nicely, and there are no glaring 'flaws' that I see. Maybe Freethrows, but how much of that is coaching?? Your an NBA player....make your damn freethrows.

Not ready to give the guy the keys to the palace.....but I am completely happy with what I've seen so far. Next year (assuming a super star or two arrives) will be an interesting year for everyone involved. The new Star(s) the young guys....and the coach. There will be new expectations. Young guys will start to see less shots...less participation. Can Luke tread those waters ok....and continue to get the best out of not only his young guys.....but the new stars as well? Can he stand toe-to-toe with Thibs in round-one, and not get schooled? We will have to see. I think Luke's more than earned the opportunity to get in the ring. I happily stand behind him for now.

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:26 am
by TylersLakers
Earlier in the year I would have voted for the flawed response. But he's redeemed himself and made great progress himself this year. Totally on board with Luke, when I wasn't early on in the season.

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 4:38 am
by thankyouKOBE
If they don't make the playoffs next season,

Image

Fire him mid-season if it looks grim and he is still doing the inconsistent rotations. We need identity, spearheaded by the coach.

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:39 am
by Electron
The way i see it, he knows we are not making the playoffs that is why he had to go through bad rotations, to see how the players react and which lineup fits best (julius randle thing). He's going to be a solid coach plus he already had ties with the franchise, so he got everyone on his back. A no brainer he would be our coach long term.

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:44 am
by Spens1
Great long term option, wants to develop our talent. I think he isn't hard enough on them sometimes (he should have flat out benched lonzo with his shooting).

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:15 pm
by SlimShady83
Geez people give him time - much like our players his still a virgin in re-gards too coaching.

Besides what else is there out there?

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:09 pm
by Revived
EZ GG LOSER wrote:Besides what else is there out there?

For what it’s worth (maybe nothing), the Hawks are letting Budenholzer take interviews with other teams. I think Ingram in that Spurs system could turn into Kawhi lite.

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:20 pm
by SlimShady83
Revived wrote:
EZ GG LOSER wrote:Besides what else is there out there?

For what it’s worth (maybe nothing), the Hawks are letting Budenholzer take interviews with other teams. I think Ingram in that Spurs system could turn into Kawhi lite.


Exactly - so my guess is unless walton does something really bad - he'll play out his contract no doubt - then after that who knows

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:18 pm
by Landsberger
danfantastk32 wrote: Maybe Freethrows, but how much of that is coaching?? Your an NBA player....make your damn freethrows.


I'd say a coach can have a profound impact on a player who is missing key free throws. From coaching directly to putting an emphasis on it with young players and connecting it to playing time.

I don't get why people excuse coaches for teams lack of fundamentals and especially free throw shooting. If a coach can help a player get better at shooting 3's why not free throws. It's fundamental form, practice and mental preparedness. All of that is well within coaching's responsibility IMHO.

As for Luke specifically. I've always thought he's the previous groups pick and that gives Magic and Co. some cover to jump to a "star" coach when they get the "star" players. I wouldn't be surprised that if we get the stars and don't perform almost immediately the pressure will mount. Luke doesn't have much experience in leading veteran players and that is an art form that is not easily mastered. That's the part we know nothing about with him. I think he'd be fine going forward if we just kept this group together for the most part but then again I don't think this group is going to grow into a true contender without a veteran star.

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:01 pm
by TheHartBreakKid
he's been everything I expected him to be. A coach that players like, with an actual system on both ends of the floor, but not some genius mastermind like Pop or even Stevens, and an inexperienced coach that makes inexperienced decisions some time. A great coach to have imo to grow with this team, attract free agents, and to contribute in the modernizing of the franchise. If he doesn't have what it takes when an actual contending team is in place, we'll deal with that then.

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 7:37 am
by Unbiased hater
Makeshift coach; replace him when/if there's a better option

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:42 am
by Rosque
Unbiased hater wrote:Makeshift coach; replace him when/if there's a better option

Why do you think that?

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 1:41 pm
by Unbiased hater
Rosque wrote:
Unbiased hater wrote:Makeshift coach; replace him when/if there's a better option

Why do you think that?


He is ok couch but thats it. At some point Lakers gonna need someone better . Current situation where you have young coach and young team where team and coach get support even when team lose is exeption bc Lakers arent franchise that are good for coaches at the beginning of their career so when Lakers finally become relevant again he is gonna have big pressure to win and if he dont deliver that he is gonna be replaced with some big name. Another thing that i see as problem is how he would work with veterans who have main role on his team and who are all stars or superstars which is tottaly different from current situation. If Lebron comes thats gonna be tougher bc he likes to be coach on the team, loves to have his friends as coaches and media and his fans love to use his coaches and teammates as scapegoats when he play bad or when his team isnt successful so they can save his image and his legacy . Because he dont have name as a coach he wont have their respect so he would have to earn respect in a short time or he is gonna lose the team.

I also think that this team could do better this year and that it should have been at least in same tier with Clippers and Denver bc this year teams from the west were without their best players for a long time, 8 teams in NBA were tanking and two more were mediocre ( Pistons and Hornets ) so they should have more wins and should've been in the playoff race until the end of regular season. Quiting at the half of the season and not trying to chase playoff after All Star break was big mistake of the menagement and Walton bc Utah is proof that it was posible to make it . End of the season was really bad and instead of finishing solid season in a good way and setting good vibe about this team, they had some shameful performances ( against Kings and Utah ).

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:51 pm
by stan francisco
Luuuuuuuuuuuuke!!!

I’ve been surprised over how firey he has been. I like it. Players love him, coaches fear him. Refs will hear the truth from him because he has his players’ back. He showed great flexibility with IT joining and JC and LN leaving, then all the injuries to key players.

I love our defensive tenacity when all starters are healthy. Impressively tenacious.

He gets an A from me. And I’d like to see if he can’t becone the west coast rival to Brad Stevens within two, three years. Yes, and that’s not easy but they’re gonna be the team to beat in the finals for years to come, once we can get there.

Again, his lineage:
Wooden, B Walton, Jackson, Tex, Kerr, Luke. There’s pedigree right there. A deep rooted knowledge of the game and coaching references to draw from, everything from Xs and Os to how to deal with role players as well as egos like Kobe and Shaq. He’s a championship winning player so he knows what mentality and focus it takes once we get there, too.

Can’t wait to see this team blow up under Luke, Mad Dog and B Shaw over the next few years, and to take down the Keltics every year in the finals, surpass their ring count.

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 6:04 pm
by Kilroy
Honestly, he's made some really confusing short term decisions... Weird rotations, starting inferior players over clearly superior ones, and inability to find a lineup that compliments the talent... But it always felt like the long term results were favorable.
Can't really fault him for the success of this talent.
We still don't have championship talent, and that's not a Coaching problem. If the FO can't get major talent this summer, they should be fired not Luke...
But if we do get the talent, and Luke can't figure out how to get the most out of it... And if he's clearly getting the support from the FO to have some sort of discipline in the locker room... Then we'll know for sure he's not up to the task and should go.

Personally, my gut tells me there are very few if any, better coaches out there for this team now and for the future. I'd be EXTREMELY patient with Luke, if I was in charge.

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:22 pm
by Ball so hard
Unbiased hater wrote:Makeshift coach; replace him when/if there's a better option


My exact response!

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2018 9:43 pm
by Ball so hard
Rosque wrote:
Unbiased hater wrote:Makeshift coach; replace him when/if there's a better option

Why do you think that?


At present, I can't seem to understand why anyone would think Luke is an Ideal long-term coach... this is based on what exactly? We won 26 games the year before and 35 games this year. At best, one could say the Lakers did ok over a two year period; at worst, the Lakers underachieved. IMO we did ok. I don't see anything to suggest ideal long-term coach.

Flawed, but will improve over time - similar to above. Considering how low the bar has been set, Luke can only get better. It goes without saying that every coach has a flaw or flaws; however, i'm not as optimistic Luke will become a better than average coach.

To name a few:
his substitution patterns
managing minutes
Xs and Os
Inability to get the most out of his players

Re: Consensus on Luke Walton?

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:27 am
by Wavy Q
1. Good way to put your franchise in limbo is by firing the coach year after year, thats what franchises like the Knicks and Kings do.

2. Even if you were at the most pessimistic end in your opinion of Luke, who are you going to replace him with? Give me a realistic name that would be better than Luke longterm. Saying fire him and replace him with someone better doesn't offer any actual insight.