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[stan francisco]

For the sake of discussion, besides his inflated salary — great “role star” but gets paid as if he were the man — ...

... what would you trade for him from a strict player exchange basketball reasons perspective?


There’s no doubt he is an elite defender and a tough competitor with a solid all around game, obviously. He’s an impact player and star for sure. And as always, when you trade two or three lesser players for one better, your starting lineup immediately packs a heavier punch.

But in the Lakers case, I personally don’t think so. Our young core is not easy to beat for minutes. Who’s minutes would he get? KCP? Hart? Ingram? LBJ? It’s not exactly a shoe-in for 30 min plus per game.

I would do a one year lease but he’s not interested in that. If he changed his mind, I would be willing to trade KCP and fillers. Bonga is the first young talent to go in my book. Who next? Stephenson?

I believe Hart is our future SG and will prove it this fall. He’ll start and finish games before season ends, beat out KCP for the job. With Ingram and Stephenson and Caruso and even Ball as depth behind a starting Hart, it could be argued we don’t need KCP.

Butler would be a step up from KCP. Hart would not steal the starting job from Butler.


Edit
PG: Ball/Rondo
SG: Butler
SF: Ingram
PF: Kuzma
C: LBJ

Any opponent any position will look at that and know they’re in for a long night.

[tugs]

Aye with that type of attitude plus the money he wants, I don't want him.

[Spens1]

Lebron is a bit of a worry in one way. Him coming is the best thing to happen to the team since we won the title but he is a bit of an anti-draw in terms of attracting quality teammates, Kyrie couldn't wait to get away from him and Love kept of being thrown under the bus because of him.

Its clear why Butler and Leonard prefer the Clippers.

[Danny Darko]

Kawhi and Jimmy are free to become the Microsoft Zunes of Anaheim. meh.
Their injury tendencies will probably **** the bed at the same time frustrating Mighty Ducks fans around the... Downtown Disney area.

[Spens1]

Kawhi and Jimmy are free to become the Microsoft Zunes of Anaheim. meh.
Their injury tendencies will probably **** the bed at the same time frustrating Mighty Ducks fans around the... Downtown Disney area.

I would much rather have one of them come here and be a legit 2nd option. Ingram sure as hell ain't ready yet for it so for now it would be good to at least get one of them to come so we have two proper stars whilst we have Ingram develop (i somehow doubt he's going from 17PPG as a primary offensive player to 20PPG as a secondary offensive option).

[tugs]

That can happen though. With LeBron attracting multiple defenders and his and Rondo's vision, all they need to do is get to their sweet spots or move off ball closer to the basket and buckets are almost certain.

[Danny Darko]

Kawhi and Jimmy are free to become the Microsoft Zunes of Anaheim. meh.
Their injury tendencies will probably **** the bed at the same time frustrating Mighty Ducks fans around the... Downtown Disney area.

I would much rather have one of them come here and be a legit 2nd option. Ingram sure as hell ain't ready yet for it so for now it would be good to at least get one of them to come so we have two proper stars whilst we have Ingram develop (i somehow doubt he's going from 17PPG as a primary offensive player to 20PPG as a secondary offensive option).

He wants out now and we can't trade for him without giving up the guys we would not give up for Kawhi, so i'm sure part of the Clippers push is exactly what Pincus is saying:

Read on Twitter

[Spens1]

Kawhi and Jimmy are free to become the Microsoft Zunes of Anaheim. meh.
Their injury tendencies will probably **** the bed at the same time frustrating Mighty Ducks fans around the... Downtown Disney area.

I would much rather have one of them come here and be a legit 2nd option. Ingram sure as hell ain't ready yet for it so for now it would be good to at least get one of them to come so we have two proper stars whilst we have Ingram develop (i somehow doubt he's going from 17PPG as a primary offensive player to 20PPG as a secondary offensive option).

He wants out now and we can't trade for him without giving up the guys we would not give up for Kawhi, so i'm sure part of the Clippers push is exactly what Pincus is saying:

Read on Twitter

could be the case, especially as he expanded the list, that he wants to GTFO now. Ironically enough, we may have been better off waiting and dealing Deng off to Thibs

[kblo247]

Kawhi and Jimmy are free to become the Microsoft Zunes of Anaheim. meh.
Their injury tendencies will probably **** the bed at the same time frustrating Mighty Ducks fans around the... Downtown Disney area.

I would much rather have one of them come here and be a legit 2nd option. Ingram sure as hell ain't ready yet for it so for now it would be good to at least get one of them to come so we have two proper stars whilst we have Ingram develop (i somehow doubt he's going from 17PPG as a primary offensive player to 20PPG as a secondary offensive option).

I'm in the Ingram puts it all together or gets shipped out group. I don't want to hear bull **** about age either. Kobe at 21 was **** elite and that's the standard I'm judging him by, not some wiggins or league standard, but a LAker lotto pick standard which is Kobe, Worthy, and Magic.

I will say the thing I don't get is how the **** Toronto isn't getting this **** done this weekend. It is the easiest way to rid themselves of the Lowry and Derozan years. IT is also the easiest way to get Kawhi to stay. If they deal a package based around Lowry for Butler the Wolves save face, ship him out the conference, and Kawhi/Jimmy get to play together in a weaker conference that they can dominate and take games off. To me Toronto needs to get a trade done.

If I'm the Sixers I'm also calling about Fultz and Covington for Butler. Keep Saric because Butler can hypothetically be a rental, but no team is **** with Simmons, Butler, Embid, Redick, and Saric in a 7 game series out east. Jimmy can be the best guy there and as he comes off his peak, he weill have two studs entering their prime.

[stan francisco]

Ingram was already showing promise of future dominance, last year. Extendo-man was looking hard to stop, even took it to both Giannis and KD.

I agree that this is the season he blows up. If not, I’ll worry about his under achievement when it happens. Kobe’s first two seasons weren’t that great. This is the time for BI.

[Jedi32]

Kawhi and Jimmy are free to become the Microsoft Zunes of Anaheim. meh.
Their injury tendencies will probably **** the bed at the same time frustrating Mighty Ducks fans around the... Downtown Disney area.

I would much rather have one of them come here and be a legit 2nd option. Ingram sure as hell ain't ready yet for it so for now it would be good to at least get one of them to come so we have two proper stars whilst we have Ingram develop (i somehow doubt he's going from 17PPG as a primary offensive player to 20PPG as a secondary offensive option).

He wants out now and we can't trade for him without giving up the guys we would not give up for Kawhi, so i'm sure part of the Clippers push is exactly what Pincus is saying:

Read on Twitter

It's easier to push the bs narrative that no one wants to play with lebron.

[Kilroy]

I'm a big Towns fan... But damn... $38M/yr for 5?!?!

[Michael Lucky]

That's the going rate these days for top young players. No surprises really.

[Kilroy]

Not surprised he got it... But the "going rate" thing is a little off IMO... It's not really a going rate if a guy like Randle struggles to get a 9m/2yr deal... Meaning the max coupled with the Cap creates a pay gap between the 'top' and the 'good' that's a little silly. Towns is better than Randle for sure, but he's not $29M/yr better... And signing him to that contract leaves what... $60M for the team to build around him with over the next 5 years?...

Honestly, I don't care what any of these guys get paid at the end of the day... But the whole cap/max thing is ridiculously skewed to make sure the top players get richer and the midling players hunt for scraps.

[kblo247]

Not surprised he got it... But the "going rate" thing is a little off IMO... It's not really a going rate if a guy like Randle struggles to get a 9m/2yr deal... Meaning the max coupled with the Cap creates a pay gap between the 'top' and the 'good' that's a little silly. Towns is better than Randle for sure, but he's not $29M/yr better... And signing him to that contract leaves what... $60M for the team to build around him with over the next 5 years?...

Honestly, I don't care what any of these guys get paid at the end of the day... But the whole cap/max thing is ridiculously skewed to make sure the top players get richer and the midling players hunt for scraps.

Honestly the gap should be bigger between what a towns gets and what a Randle gets. The middling players eat off what the stars generate. Randle isn’t selling tickets, jerseys, merch, sponsorships for a team. Heck wasn’t even winning games for a team or making any all nba notice with his play.

The fact is the cap has always **** the top guys and let the middle and end of the bench guys eat. It’s laughable that Kobe, Lebron, Shaq, T-Mac, AI, and guys like that get limited to how much food they can have on their plate. There should never be a max limit for guys who generate the real cash. There should have always been a much larger gulf between a guy like Kobe to a guy like Ray allen and then a guy like Ray Allen to a Rip Hamilton. And so we are clear Randle is more like Kerry Kittles based off play and accomplishment.

The stars should eat and the rest get it how they live. This free agency was perhaps the best at that because it made guys like Randle settle for less and didn’t give them bs maxes, lots or years, and **** they haven’t earned as a basketball player or or off the court as a marketing tool

[Landsberger]

Not surprised he got it... But the "going rate" thing is a little off IMO... It's not really a going rate if a guy like Randle struggles to get a 9m/2yr deal... Meaning the max coupled with the Cap creates a pay gap between the 'top' and the 'good' that's a little silly. Towns is better than Randle for sure, but he's not $29M/yr better... And signing him to that contract leaves what... $60M for the team to build around him with over the next 5 years?...

Honestly, I don't care what any of these guys get paid at the end of the day... But the whole cap/max thing is ridiculously skewed to make sure the top players get richer and the midling players hunt for scraps.

While I agree to a certain point on the Randle vs KAT comparison I would also point out that Randle isn't a guy who will have everyone in the stands wearing his jersey. Nor will he be the best player on a team unless it's a very bad team. Not a knock on Randle... he's a good player but KAT is a guy who creates revenue off the court. Randle isn't. The face of any franchise.....even Min.... will get a significant premium for no other reason than to be the reason to go to bad games.

[dockingsched]

Honestly, I don't care what any of these guys get paid at the end of the day... But the whole cap/max thing is ridiculously skewed to make sure the top players get richer and the midling players hunt for scraps.

If it wasn’t for the max, the middle and lower tier players like Randle would be paid even less.

[Kilroy]

Not surprised he got it... But the "going rate" thing is a little off IMO... It's not really a going rate if a guy like Randle struggles to get a 9m/2yr deal... Meaning the max coupled with the Cap creates a pay gap between the 'top' and the 'good' that's a little silly. Towns is better than Randle for sure, but he's not $29M/yr better... And signing him to that contract leaves what... $60M for the team to build around him with over the next 5 years?...

Honestly, I don't care what any of these guys get paid at the end of the day... But the whole cap/max thing is ridiculously skewed to make sure the top players get richer and the midling players hunt for scraps.

While I agree to a certain point on the Randle vs KAT comparison I would also point out that Randle isn't a guy who will have everyone in the stands wearing his jersey. Nor will he be the best player on a team unless it's a very bad team. Not a knock on Randle... he's a good player but KAT is a guy who creates revenue off the court. Randle isn't. The face of any franchise.....even Min.... will get a significant premium for no other reason than to be the reason to go to bad games.

I get why the Wolves are willing to pay KAT what they did... Never questioned it.
Although, I'm not sure how great a marketing tool KAT is... How's his shoe doing?
I think they paid him because they had no one else better to pay and had to keep one top guy on their team if they wanted to stay even remotely relevant...
But at some point, in an unweighted market, that has to set the market value for similar players... And it did, up until the last few years... If a guy like Whiteside get's a massive contract, then a guy like Mozgov can too... (You guys may not like those names but the contracts made sense based on the market).

KAT got a contract based on basic rules set out by the cap... Nothing wrong with that, but it's created an exception rather than a rule for paying other players... Which is kind of goofy. And he's essentially untradeable now, because I highly doubt any team with a player worth $40M/yr is going to trade him for Towns... Anybody want to see if they'll take LeBron?

As the iPhone climbs from $600 to $1500, does it have 0 effect on the rest of the market? No... The top Samsungs go up in price too because the market can bear it.

[Landsberger]

Not surprised he got it... But the "going rate" thing is a little off IMO... It's not really a going rate if a guy like Randle struggles to get a 9m/2yr deal... Meaning the max coupled with the Cap creates a pay gap between the 'top' and the 'good' that's a little silly. Towns is better than Randle for sure, but he's not $29M/yr better... And signing him to that contract leaves what... $60M for the team to build around him with over the next 5 years?...

Honestly, I don't care what any of these guys get paid at the end of the day... But the whole cap/max thing is ridiculously skewed to make sure the top players get richer and the midling players hunt for scraps.

While I agree to a certain point on the Randle vs KAT comparison I would also point out that Randle isn't a guy who will have everyone in the stands wearing his jersey. Nor will he be the best player on a team unless it's a very bad team. Not a knock on Randle... he's a good player but KAT is a guy who creates revenue off the court. Randle isn't. The face of any franchise.....even Min.... will get a significant premium for no other reason than to be the reason to go to bad games.

I get why the Wolves are willing to pay KAT what they did... Never questioned it.
Although, I'm not sure how great a marketing tool KAT is... How's his shoe doing?
I think they paid him because they had no one else better to pay and had to keep one top guy on their team if they wanted to stay even remotely relevant...
But at some point, in an unweighted market, that has to set the market value for similar players... And it did, up until the last few years... If a guy like Whiteside get's a massive contract, then a guy like Mozgov can too... (You guys may not like those names but the contracts made sense based on the market).

KAT got a contract based on basic rules set out by the cap... Nothing wrong with that, but it's created an exception rather than a rule for paying other players... Which is kind of goofy. And he's essentially untradeable now, because I highly doubt any team with a player worth $40M/yr is going to trade him for Towns... Anybody want to see if they'll take LeBron?

As the iPhone climbs from $600 to $1500, does it have 0 effect on the rest of the market? No... The top Samsungs go up in price too because the market can bear it.

I don't disagree at all.... As you noted KAT is their only marketable asset. A contract like that is for the most marketable player on the team.

Randle's deal was mostly because teams ran out of cap space that could use him. If you want an exception to that look no further than KCP's deal last year. Was he worth $17.8M?

I'm in Phoenix and billboards around town have Booker all over them. Cardboard cutouts of him in the malls. Giant posters on the buildings downtown as the season approaches. While he's not as valuable as KAT (at least not yet) he's getting $36M in his final contract season as well.

[snaquille oatmeal]

Not surprised he got it... But the "going rate" thing is a little off IMO... It's not really a going rate if a guy like Randle struggles to get a 9m/2yr deal... Meaning the max coupled with the Cap creates a pay gap between the 'top' and the 'good' that's a little silly. Towns is better than Randle for sure, but he's not $29M/yr better... And signing him to that contract leaves what... $60M for the team to build around him with over the next 5 years?...

Honestly, I don't care what any of these guys get paid at the end of the day... But the whole cap/max thing is ridiculously skewed to make sure the top players get richer and the midling players hunt for scraps.

this sounds like the tax bill the republicans passed some months ago