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In light of dejounte murray’s injury, young, physically undeveloped slashers may have a biomechanic predisposition for that injury. Particularly long and physically undeveloped - not necessarily heavier, but not having enough support to stabilize the knee. Many of these injuries are non-impact, aren’t the result of trauma. According to the report below, 40% of the injuries happened in the fourth quarter. That’s huge, because fatigue being a factor is a physical conditioning/development issue.

ACL tears have increased over the years, and it seems to happen to younger players. In addition to Murray, Zach Lavine, Jabari Parker, Dante Exum, Ricky Rubio, Derrick Rose, Danilo Galinari, Kristaps Porzingis, were all in their early 20s when they suffered the injury.

Considering how Brandon Ingram’s game is predominately attacking the basket, I have some concerns. He’s a long player, split high, and he I think he’s at a higher risk. I hope the training staff really works on his core and strengthening the muscles that support and protect his knee.

https://openi.nlm.nih.gov/detailedresult.php?img=PMC3806178_10.1177_1941738113495788-fig2&req=4

The study gives more detail about the fourth-quarter thing:

This study demonstrated that 40% of ACL tears occurred in the fourth quarter and nearly two-thirds (62%) in the second half. Although the difference between quarters and halves was not statistically significant (P > 0.05), this potentially implicates the role of fatigue in timing of ACL tears in the NBA. This fact may affect how coaches decide when to take their starting players out toward the end of games when their team is far ahead. In addition, the player’s position may have a role in injury incidence. Further, 65% (45/69) of ACL tears occurred during an in-season game.

So Lebron is getting hurt and Ingram is tearing his knee up, nice posts lately.

man how bored are you to think of all this ish.

And people get on my case for being a downer....

Michael Lucky wrote:And people get on my case for being a downer....

. You know what Mike you have a point. You are never this bad.


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Oh grow up. There's no agenda aside from concern about a phenomenon that might be applicable to our own players. What would be unforgivable would be ignoring the data. The data is indicating that ACL tears are not random. It's not just bad luck.

The injury has really hit mostly younger players (mean and median). And they tend to be perimeter players or slashers because ACL injuries are mostly non-impact, quick-cutting injuries, or landing awkwardly due to muscle imbalance between quad and hamstrings (small angle of knee flexion), along with the dominant fatigue factor, which, based on age, implies undeveloped physiques. It's all in the research, and also reiterated by Tim Grover.

Aside from Derrick Rose's MVP career's completely derailed by the injury (24), ACL tears have been hitting young guards or perimeter players, especially those who might not be physically developed - Ricky Rubio (22), Zach LaVine (21), Kristaps Porzingis (23), Jabari Parker (19, 21), Iman Shumpert (22), Brandon Rush (22), Corey Brewer (22), Jamal Crawford (21)... Dejuante Murray (22).

There seems to be a pattern emerging. If you're in your early 20's, a guard or perimeter player, especially physically undeveloped, and like to attack the basket, you are in a high risk category for ACL tears. Brandon Ingram checks all the boxes.

I'm concerned because I am high on Brandon Ingram. I think he's poised for a breakout year. I would trade Lebron at 34 to keep Brandon Ingram at 21. But ACL tears can be catastrophic. Not worth the risk to not take precautions, and I still see Brandon Ingram a bit physically undeveloped and relying too much on attacking the basket.

I would encourage him to take a page out of Durant's playbook. Shoot. Come off baseline screens. Let your body come around naturally. If I were his trainers and coaching staff, I would encourage him to expand his game so his body can catch up. The alternative, again, could be catastrophic. Why risk it? Similar players have been going down. It's science.

actual footage of Miles:

I miss those good old days when Miles actually made good thread discussions.

Correlation is not causation. Maybe they are just trying harder or making riskier plays, knowing that the game is on the line in the 4th. So what's your solution? Take all of your most valuable players out in the 4th so they don't get hurt?

This damn thread title freaks me out everytime I read it..

Penberthy wrote:Correlation is not causation. Maybe they are just trying harder or making riskier plays, knowing that the game is on the line in the 4th. So what's your solution? Take all of your most valuable players out in the 4th so they don't get hurt?

Read the post. There are patterns emerging. Young, long, physically undeveloped players who attack the basket are the high risk factors, and Ingram has all of them.

So I repeat, there are concrete ways to reduce his risk. Brandon Ingram should be expanding his game and shoot more. Take more threes! It’d help the team and his own longevity.

Also, the training staff should force him to follow a specialized workout program to strengthen and stabilize the knees. I don’t care about getting bigger. I hope that’s not what he’s focused on.

And I would definitely control and monitor his minutes. Not only total minutes, but distribution over the course of a game and season.

Zach LaVine was among the very top of the league in minutes when he had his injury. Tom thibbodeau needs to take some responsibility for that. Kobe did too when he tore his Achilles, and d’antoni has to take some responsibility for that. Fatigue absolutely is a factor, both within a game and season, for injuries.

Especially for a high risk player like Ingram. Once he gets into his mid-20s, he’d be out of the high risk area, and his expanded game will serve him well anyways for a long career.

Teams in the league are already doing some form of this. The Spurs did this very early, sitting their players, reducing their minutes, then many teams followed suit. But it’s clear there’s still a lot of work to do when applying sports science to actual gameplay. Ignoring the data would be reckless and negligent and self-defeating.

I just don't see the point in worrying or discussing about the potential of an injury when that exists for literally every player.