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FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland

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FIRE MAGIC

HUG Magic
7
12%
FIRE Magic
31
53%
THANK Rob for our daily Manna from Heaven
3
5%
FIRE Rob
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KEEP The Priest and Fiance together
3
5%
Set the TROLLEY CAR on FIRE
14
24%
 
Total votes: 58

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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#81 » by walk with me » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:05 pm

LAKESHOW wrote:
walk with me wrote:
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That for me kind of cheapened the rings.

We gave you pat riley. We gave you your coaching staff. We gave you SHAQ. We gave you your Championships. Be more appreciative. And stop drinking the HATERade.

You’ve probably missed my prior post. I don’t post here ever. Not a laker fan. I love the lakers as my enemy and want the best for your brand . Stated that in another tread. I just think this Lebron thing won’t end well for the team, I think the lakers org is better than being manipulated by Klutch. That’s my only point.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#82 » by dockingsched » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:11 pm

walk with me wrote:Again speaking as an outsider...

I can’t tell anyone how to feel about magic and rob because I’m not a lakers fan. BUT, when you have Lebron on your team you’re essentially forefeiting your team over to him. 95% of decision making has to go through him and Klutch.

It happened in Miami
It happened in Cleveland once he came back
And now it’s happening in LA

I only say this so everyone understand how to temper their expectations. Lebron is the ultimate Ponzi scheme, you mortgage all your assets to let him have all the glory and deflect any of the blame. Once he’s leave your city all your assets are gone and you’re no longer built for sustainable success. Take it from a very long time heat fan, rob and magic may not be perfect but if Lebron wasn’t currently on the lakers the teams trajectory would be much better.

Klutch blew the ad trade and the rest of the nba didn’t want to participate because they’re sick of Klutch
Same goes with the Pg trade. You think PG would have scoffed at LA if Lebron coming wasn’t possible?
Now Klutch has isolated the younger guys and ruined team chemistry.

I hope I’m not speaking out of place but lakers fans should know the truth regarding the influence that Lebron has and the problems that come with making him a member of your team. Imo the problems aren’t worth it in the long run and that’s stated as a heat fan. Lakers fans may feel differently.

Edit:
Study the history of Lebron in miami
Study the history of Lebron in Cleveland

History is repeating itself. The only different is wade was waiting for LBJ in miami, Kyrie was waiting for LBJ in Cleveland. The lakers had nobody waiting for Lebron as the rest of the nba caught on to lebrons gimmick.


A question that never really seems to get answered when people talk about this idea that LeBron runs things....what exactly have superstar thirsty Magic and Rob done against their will just for Lebron that they wouldn’t have done on their own?
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#83 » by Kilroy » Wed Feb 13, 2019 5:59 pm

dockingsched wrote:
walk with me wrote:Again speaking as an outsider...

I can’t tell anyone how to feel about magic and rob because I’m not a lakers fan. BUT, when you have Lebron on your team you’re essentially forefeiting your team over to him. 95% of decision making has to go through him and Klutch.

It happened in Miami
It happened in Cleveland once he came back
And now it’s happening in LA

I only say this so everyone understand how to temper their expectations. Lebron is the ultimate Ponzi scheme, you mortgage all your assets to let him have all the glory and deflect any of the blame. Once he’s leave your city all your assets are gone and you’re no longer built for sustainable success. Take it from a very long time heat fan, rob and magic may not be perfect but if Lebron wasn’t currently on the lakers the teams trajectory would be much better.

Klutch blew the ad trade and the rest of the nba didn’t want to participate because they’re sick of Klutch
Same goes with the Pg trade. You think PG would have scoffed at LA if Lebron coming wasn’t possible?
Now Klutch has isolated the younger guys and ruined team chemistry.

I hope I’m not speaking out of place but lakers fans should know the truth regarding the influence that Lebron has and the problems that come with making him a member of your team. Imo the problems aren’t worth it in the long run and that’s stated as a heat fan. Lakers fans may feel differently.

Edit:
Study the history of Lebron in miami
Study the history of Lebron in Cleveland

History is repeating itself. The only different is wade was waiting for LBJ in miami, Kyrie was waiting for LBJ in Cleveland. The lakers had nobody waiting for Lebron as the rest of the nba caught on to lebrons gimmick.


A question that never really seems to get answered when people talk about this idea that LeBron runs things....what exactly have superstar thirsty Magic and Rob done against their will just for Lebron that they wouldn’t have done on their own?


Well, the short answer to that is probably 'Nothing.'
But that's also probably a gross over-simplification.

I think the stain of collusion may be lifted enough to provide some more room for creativity if Klutch wasn't around... I think Klutch takes Magic from 'Loveably naive Legend' to 'Sinister Evil Mastermind' around the league...

That said, I'm not sure Magic and Rob would have had the balls to suggest a LeBron/AD pairing when they got LeBron, if it wasn't for LeBron/Klutch...

I just don't see the whole AD thing even being on the radar. In retrospect, our pursuit of AD sure felt like a team who thought the deal was in the bag... And then wanted it to be known that we did everything we could to get him once it became clear it wasn't going to happen...

So, IMO they're all bad-actors in this... LeBron/Klutch couldn't do this without Magic/Rob... And Magic/Rob wouldn't dream of doing it without LeBron/Klutch...

But I think Magic and Rob are more guilty of simply providing a forum for LeBron/Klutch to work... Whereas it feels like the heavy lifting is being done by Klutch...

Can't discount the fact that LeBron and Klutch now have a media company in LA either... They've moved in and set up shop in more ways than one... And I'm sure if the Lakers hadn't opened the door, they'd be doing it with Red White and Blue Cs on their chests across the hall..
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#84 » by milesfides » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:45 pm

KCP, both times around, was a favor to Klutch, Lebron Inc. He wasn't worth his first contract, he wasn't worth his second. Why would anybody pay an undersized two guard with a career below average 3-pt percentage? Nobody. Just the Lakers, for Lebron Inc.

And why trade our best center asset (possibly the best under 23 league-wide) for a redundant and free-agent Muscala? Oh, somebody who can space the floor for Lebron for the next two months.

And of course, the Lakers just tried to trade the entire team (and future assets) to appease Lebron. Pretty sure that wouldn't have happened without Lebron. They could also have done the sensible thing, you know, just wait and sign free agents like Kawhi Leonard while losing nothing.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#85 » by dockingsched » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:59 pm

I don’t see any samples of Magic/Rob doing anything they believed was against the interest of the team.

What seems to be happening is that some fans are starting to equate any action taken by the front office that benefits LeBron as some sort of proof that the front office is bending to the will Lebron.

Where one could reasonable say that the front office brought in KCP to open lines of communication with Klutch, others without evidence claim Lebron demanded that KCP be taken care of.

Where one can reasonably accept Pelinka’s explanation of the Zu trade where he stated that in concert with Luke they believed they needed more spacing, others claim without evidence that the front office was held hostage and forced to trade a young asset against their will.

Where one could take Magic’s dozens of comments and statements about the desire to acquire superstars to explain their pursuit of AD, others without evidence want to claim Magic would’ve never pursued AD if not forced to.

Kind of crazy how it gets spun.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#86 » by TyCobb » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:03 pm

To be fair, it's always been about signing the stars in FA and adding them to the group we already have on rookie deals. It was LeBron who wants the entire team traded.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#87 » by zimpy27 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:15 pm

TyCobb wrote:To be fair, it's always been about signing the stars in FA and adding them to the group we already have on rookie deals. It was LeBron who wants the entire team traded.

Where do you get the information that LeBron wants the entire team traded and not Magic/Pelinka?
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#88 » by Sushisensei26 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:39 pm

I love Magic. He has brought a lot of joy to this city.

But we need forward thinking people in charge. I thought Pelinka was that but he just seems to be a Magic disciple with weird thoughts. Adding Klutch to this mix has been so toxic.

It's not all on Lebron and Klutch too. We had a perception problem in the league before that thanks to Magic and Pelinka and the way they conduct business. Now it just seems everyone is clearly against us and telling each other to stick it to us. How do we thrive in an environment like that. Maybe if we had a Kobe type player coming then we could give everyone the middle finger and carry on. But we don't have such a player coming. We have Ingram and Lonzo. We need people to work with us to improve. We can't be making enemies everywhere.

After this season if things don't improve I would honestly fire Magic. I know Jeannie won't do it. I would fire Magic and maybe keep Pelinka with Jerry West overseeing him (if Jerry even wants to come now SMH).

It's not just about the inability to trade for star players...…….. it's the general aura around the Lakers that has gone putrid. Dysfunction can be tolerated when you have transcendent people like Shaq or Kobe but it destroys most other teams and organizations. For me that starts with Magic and Pelinka.

It might sound harsh but if Magic decides to trade Lebron and does a major course correction in the way he is handling things then and only then would I want to keep him around. The successful teams in the league have forward thinking people in charge of decisions. We have to adapt our get left behind.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#89 » by Ball so hard » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:13 am

zimpy27 wrote:
TyCobb wrote:To be fair, it's always been about signing the stars in FA and adding them to the group we already have on rookie deals. It was LeBron who wants the entire team traded.

Where do you get the information that LeBron wants the entire team traded and not Magic/Pelinka?


I think it kind of goes without saying... what star players in their 30s have the patience to wait for young players to develop? This is hardly unique.
Frankly, if I were in Lebron's shoe I'd want the exact same thing.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#90 » by zimpy27 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:27 am

Ball so hard wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
TyCobb wrote:To be fair, it's always been about signing the stars in FA and adding them to the group we already have on rookie deals. It was LeBron who wants the entire team traded.

Where do you get the information that LeBron wants the entire team traded and not Magic/Pelinka?


I think it kind of goes without saying... what star players in their 30s have the patience to wait for young players to develop? This is hardly unique.
Frankly, if I were in Lebron's shoe I'd want the exact same thing.


Why was he recruited to Lakers by Magic and Pelinka then? Why would they do that and promise to get a second star if they aren't the ones pushing this? It doesn't make any sense.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#91 » by Kilroy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:35 am

zimpy27 wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:Where do you get the information that LeBron wants the entire team traded and not Magic/Pelinka?


I think it kind of goes without saying... what star players in their 30s have the patience to wait for young players to develop? This is hardly unique.
Frankly, if I were in Lebron's shoe I'd want the exact same thing.


Why was he recruited to Lakers by Magic and Pelinka then? Why would they do that and promise to get a second star if they aren't the ones pushing this? It doesn't make any sense.


Do you really "recruit" LeBron James? Or does he 'choose' you...
There were lots of rumors out there that James wanted to move to LA for his family (and his business)...

An argument could be made that Magic just went to his house when called and listened to James and Paul outline the gameplan going forward, and they asked Magic if he thought he could make it happen... Magic saying yes being the extent of the 'recruitment.'

Judging from how smug he and Pelinka were after that meeting and all the rumors that started to come out about AD becoming a Laker even though he had years left on his contract, it sure seems possible if not outright, probable, that Magic was presented the possibility of AD joining LeBron later at that first meeting with LeBron...

LeBron hyped Randle, Ingram, Kuz and especially Ball over the last couple years... That was either genuine, or simply an effort to increase their trade value... Your choice...
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#92 » by zimpy27 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:48 am

Kilroy wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
I think it kind of goes without saying... what star players in their 30s have the patience to wait for young players to develop? This is hardly unique.
Frankly, if I were in Lebron's shoe I'd want the exact same thing.


Why was he recruited to Lakers by Magic and Pelinka then? Why would they do that and promise to get a second star if they aren't the ones pushing this? It doesn't make any sense.


Do you really "recruit" LeBron James? Or does he 'choose' you...
There were lots of rumors out there that James wanted to move to LA for his family (and his business)...

An argument could be made that Magic just went to his house when called and listened to James and Paul outline the gameplan going forward, and they asked Magic if he thought he could make it happen... Magic saying yes being the extent of the 'recruitment.'

Judging from how smug he and Pelinka were after that meeting and all the rumors that started to come out about AD becoming a Laker even though he had years left on his contract, it sure seems possible if not outright, probable, that Magic was presented the possibility of AD joining LeBron later at that first meeting with LeBron...

LeBron hyped Randle, Ingram, Kuz and especially Ball over the last couple years... That was either genuine, or simply an effort to increase their trade value... Your choice...


Magic traded DLo to get cap space for free agents over a year ago. The plan since Magic came was to attract UFAs. I feel like revisionist history is happening here. This all started with PG13.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#93 » by TyCobb » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:56 am

Yeah, UFA's... not trade prospects for them. Exactly, it did start with PG13... where we refused to trade off players for him. LeBron is the one that wants it sped up.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#94 » by madmaxmedia » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:05 am

dockingsched wrote:
walk with me wrote:Again speaking as an outsider...

I can’t tell anyone how to feel about magic and rob because I’m not a lakers fan. BUT, when you have Lebron on your team you’re essentially forefeiting your team over to him. 95% of decision making has to go through him and Klutch.

It happened in Miami
It happened in Cleveland once he came back
And now it’s happening in LA

I only say this so everyone understand how to temper their expectations. Lebron is the ultimate Ponzi scheme, you mortgage all your assets to let him have all the glory and deflect any of the blame. Once he’s leave your city all your assets are gone and you’re no longer built for sustainable success. Take it from a very long time heat fan, rob and magic may not be perfect but if Lebron wasn’t currently on the lakers the teams trajectory would be much better.

Klutch blew the ad trade and the rest of the nba didn’t want to participate because they’re sick of Klutch
Same goes with the Pg trade. You think PG would have scoffed at LA if Lebron coming wasn’t possible?
Now Klutch has isolated the younger guys and ruined team chemistry.

I hope I’m not speaking out of place but lakers fans should know the truth regarding the influence that Lebron has and the problems that come with making him a member of your team. Imo the problems aren’t worth it in the long run and that’s stated as a heat fan. Lakers fans may feel differently.

Edit:
Study the history of Lebron in miami
Study the history of Lebron in Cleveland

History is repeating itself. The only different is wade was waiting for LBJ in miami, Kyrie was waiting for LBJ in Cleveland. The lakers had nobody waiting for Lebron as the rest of the nba caught on to lebrons gimmick.


A question that never really seems to get answered when people talk about this idea that LeBron runs things....what exactly have superstar thirsty Magic and Rob done against their will just for Lebron that they wouldn’t have done on their own?


Signing an aging GOAT makes you that much more desperate to win NOW, and I think having Klutch Klient #1 gave him a false sense of confidence that NOP eventually had to agree to a trade. OTOH, had Magic struck out in free agency last offseason maybe he'd be even more desperate now.

I don't consider Lebron to be 100% toxic, but as the self-proclaimed king he expects the gravity of the team to shift towards him, and that necessarily means a lot of unintended, thorny consequences shifting as well that he doesn't fully own up to, and the team isn't doing a good job of handling either IMO (these are the things KD was alluding to without actually blaming Lebron himself.)

OTOH, maybe it doesn't matter as long as Rich Paul gets one of his other big clients to go to LA to play with Lebron.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#95 » by Ballerhogger » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:07 am

Wait until next FA ends . Then we can bring this up. Step one was getting Lebron . We’re on step two . We get step 2 done Luke is will be gone given this years turn out . Has to be .
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#96 » by snaquille oatmeal » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:57 am

dockingsched wrote:I don’t see any samples of Magic/Rob doing anything they believed was against the interest of the team.

What seems to be happening is that some fans are starting to equate any action taken by the front office that benefits LeBron as some sort of proof that the front office is bending to the will Lebron.

Where one could reasonable say that the front office brought in KCP to open lines of communication with Klutch, others without evidence claim Lebron demanded that KCP be taken care of.

Where one can reasonably accept Pelinka’s explanation of the Zu trade where he stated that in concert with Luke they believed they needed more spacing, others claim without evidence that the front office was held hostage and forced to trade a young asset against their will.

Where one could take Magic’s dozens of comments and statements about the desire to acquire superstars to explain their pursuit of AD, others without evidence want to claim Magic would’ve never pursued AD if not forced to.

Kind of crazy how it gets spun.

so glad you said all that. agree 100%.
I'll even take it further and say that even though I had my reservations about Lebron when he came and I still do, I am not even sure that Lebron is the one to blame for what's happened. AD is a grown man and HE made the decision to fire his agent and hire Klutch. not Lebron. obviously he wanted out of NO and thought RP was the man to get it done. He gave the OK to ask for a trade not Lebron.

conventional wisdom dictated that when a "Generational talent" like AD is available you throw everything and kitchen sink to make it happen (at least that's what every talking head on TV, radio, internet forums barber shops were saying), and that is exactly what Maginca did. was it against the interest of team? I don't think that was their intention. I think that if Lebron had not been on the Lakers and the same situation would have presented itself Maginca would have done the same thing. call it panic, call it dumb, call it smart, call it what you will, but they would have offered everybody and the kitchen sink.

I don't think they did it for Lebron. did Lebron put the Lakers in this position? did Lebron convince AD to drop his agent and hire RP and ask for a trade and walk away from millions of dollars? I really don't think so. did a conversation happen? it's possible, but I don't think Lebron can tell a grown ass man what to do.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#97 » by Landsberger » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:25 am

walk with me wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
It's not like Bron broke the door down and just jumped on our team. There was a long and drawn out process to get him here and it started higher than Magic. He was the target of our ownership and Magic.

As for the history of LeBron in Miami and Cleveland.... Wasn't there championships involved? Isn't that the ultimate goal? There were no assets left in Chicago or LA after Jordan and Kobe either. It's the price of contending in the modern league financial structure.


I think it kind of depends on your view of what a team should be willing to SACRIFICE for a ring.

A success depraved franchise like the cavs we’re willing to do anything at all costs to get a ring and they got one. I doubt any cavs fans resent their journey to a ring since they’ve never had any sustained playoff success before.

SPEAKING FOR MYSELF (not all heat fans) I always have mixed feelings about our journey under Lebron to get a ring. 4 finals trips 2 rings.... cool. Lebron leaves with out any notice and didn’t give us an opportunity to strategize for life after Lebron which sucked (the planning... not him leaving). That for me kind of cheapened the rings, he left us in a selfish way. If he’d conducted himself with more tact (putting in your two weeks before quitting a job) I would have felt like he had more respect for our franchise. He also didn’t think the fans which was confusing.

So I guess lakers fans have to ask what’s the ring worth to them. Do you want a ring so badly that you’re willing to sign Klutch as your team president and Lebron as your GM and head coach? When lebrons 4 years as a laker is up and he potentially leaves you without notice for some other advantageous situation, are you content with having getting a ring from a player that doesn’t really care about purple and gold in exchange? Lakers are the most storied franchise in the NBA so I’m sure that answer will be different for different laker fans.


I think only 5 or 6 teams account for over 50% of all NBA Championships. It’s the most lopsided in any pro sport I believe. So... I think any team in a small market would do a lot for a shot and even more for one.

Your underlying implication is one of integrity. When dealing with celeberty athletes, hundreds of millions of dollars and the power those provide I think looking for integrity in those situations will be nearly impossible to find. How many teams have cut vets loose toward the end of their careers? We’ve seen it both ways. Bron isn’t a new breed.... rather and enabled one in the modern NBA IMHO.

Look at the Shaq situation to find a similar thing in the Lakers history. He left us high and dry after a 3 our of 4 run.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#98 » by 76ciology » Thu Feb 14, 2019 3:58 am

Problems are
1.)you need an insane amount of talent to compete in the league.
2.)most players are about to retire at LeBron’s age
3.) Lakers doesnt really possess attractive assets for superstar in a fair trade
4.) league and agents maybe ganging up the lakers

Lakers has built their team by stealing other team’s stars. And that was the plan of everyone from ownership to LeBron.

And given the facts that the league has ganged up the Lakers, LeBron has limited window and Lakers doesnt have any assets, the Lakers have a really small margin for error. The last saving grace to make it all work is this offseason and it might not even be enough.
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#99 » by Spens1 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:40 pm

dockingsched wrote:I don’t see any samples of Magic/Rob doing anything they believed was against the interest of the team.

What seems to be happening is that some fans are starting to equate any action taken by the front office that benefits LeBron as some sort of proof that the front office is bending to the will Lebron.

Where one could reasonable say that the front office brought in KCP to open lines of communication with Klutch, others without evidence claim Lebron demanded that KCP be taken care of.

Where one can reasonably accept Pelinka’s explanation of the Zu trade where he stated that in concert with Luke they believed they needed more spacing, others claim without evidence that the front office was held hostage and forced to trade a young asset against their will.

Where one could take Magic’s dozens of comments and statements about the desire to acquire superstars to explain their pursuit of AD, others without evidence want to claim Magic would’ve never pursued AD if not forced to.

Kind of crazy how it gets spun.


Lou will for a low first (idc if it was for goodwill, that trade was still horrible).
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Re: FIRE MAGIC: Something Rotten in the State of Lakerland 

Post#100 » by Danny Darko » Thu Feb 14, 2019 4:07 pm

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