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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways 

Post#81 » by tamaraw08 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 2:25 am

gts1 wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:Jeanie knows enough that they were a mess with the bad contracts of Mozgov and Deng but also realize that she has very limited knowledge of the game. She asked the help of someone she trusts, one individual his family loved like a son, the player so great he helped the team win championships. What were her other alternative, hand the keys to a complete stranger?
In hindsight, she could have hired 1-2 more trusted confidants and form a committee.
With Magic's vision, I felt, hiring a very smart Rondo and an athletic big in Mcgee wasn't horrible. He probably saw what I saw how Houston who beat GSW 3 times with defense even with bad 3pt shooting could be working formula.
Yes, Beasley and Lance hire was a disaster esp letting Brook go but it's not like these guys made only bad mistakes and none of the good ones.


YES! somebody that knows the game, not some former player that led them to greatness on the floor, that's not a quality to run a team.. She admits she doesn't know the BB side of the game, that alone should disqualify her from running it but since she is going to she needs to find a mentor type to run the team, she needs to learn that side of the game.


Imagine yourself as son of Jerry Buss, A real estate businessman who never owned a Sports team before. He hires Jerry West, a former player who led them greatness on the floor as his GM and actually asked him coach too. Didn't have much experience doing that but was great. He then hires Pat Riley as coach. Previous experience as HC? none. turned out to be great.
West drafts an 18 year old player who never played one game in college. Turned out to be a hall of famer. She followed an old blue print that worked over and over but now in hindsight turned out to be a mistake. n
Jesse Buss, Ryan West seems like competent but yes, they didn't exactly started at the top but they had to start somewhere.
Again, in hindsight, simply getting Magic with so much responsibility was a mistake. I just can't help but wonder if Lebron didn't get injured with no trade rumors and Hart, KCP and Kuzma maintained their above 37% from the 3pt area, would all these chaos really happen.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways 

Post#82 » by gts1 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:38 am

tamaraw08 wrote:
gts1 wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:Jeanie knows enough that they were a mess with the bad contracts of Mozgov and Deng but also realize that she has very limited knowledge of the game. She asked the help of someone she trusts, one individual his family loved like a son, the player so great he helped the team win championships. What were her other alternative, hand the keys to a complete stranger?
In hindsight, she could have hired 1-2 more trusted confidants and form a committee.
With Magic's vision, I felt, hiring a very smart Rondo and an athletic big in Mcgee wasn't horrible. He probably saw what I saw how Houston who beat GSW 3 times with defense even with bad 3pt shooting could be working formula.
Yes, Beasley and Lance hire was a disaster esp letting Brook go but it's not like these guys made only bad mistakes and none of the good ones.


YES! somebody that knows the game, not some former player that led them to greatness on the floor, that's not a quality to run a team.. She admits she doesn't know the BB side of the game, that alone should disqualify her from running it but since she is going to she needs to find a mentor type to run the team, she needs to learn that side of the game.


Imagine yourself as son of Jerry Buss, A real estate businessman who never owned a Sports team before. He hires Jerry West, a former player who led them greatness on the floor as his GM and actually asked him coach too. Didn't have much experience doing that but was great. He then hires Pat Riley as coach. Previous experience as HC? none. turned out to be great.
West drafts an 18 year old player who never played one game in college. Turned out to be a hall of famer. She followed an old blue print that worked over and over but now in hindsight turned out to be a mistake. n
Jesse Buss, Ryan West seems like competent but yes, they didn't exactly started at the top but they had to start somewhere.
Again, in hindsight, simply getting Magic with so much responsibility was a mistake. I just can't help but wonder if Lebron didn't get injured with no trade rumors and Hart, KCP and Kuzma maintained their above 37% from the 3pt area, would all these chaos really happen.


West was already in the FO when Buss bought the team, Jack Kent Cooke put him there. West became the coach following Sharman when Sharman became the scout and later West became the scout when Sharman became GM (and besides head scout he acted as an assistant GM to Sharman) Buss moved him to GM spot after Sharman recommended him when Sharman retired, West had been groomed for the spot for years under Cooke's management system and it made smooth transition. Also the NBA in 1982 was so much simpler and there really was no such position as head of basketball ops, the GM handled it all and West had been helping in that capacity for years.. There were no crazy cap rules, trades were straight forward, some things were settled with a flip of a coin and there was no such thing as free agency as we know now. Buss moving West to GM highlights my point also, West had vastly more experience than Buss did in basketball operations, he'd literally held every position on a team you could. he knew all the ins and outs from all angles. That's what Jeanie needs she needs a modern day Jerry West because she lacks so much understanding of that one aspect of the organization

Riles was not Buss's hire, Buss wanted West to coach the team, he didn't want Riley he wanted somebody who had coached before. (On Chick Hearns' recommendation to West) Riley was hired to be a co head coach with West right next to him but West passed it off to Riley never having had the intention to be a coach again. It was actually a sore spot between Buss and West for a period of time but in that case it makes a very good example of what having the proper people in place can do for a team when the owner is not as informed.

Jeanie may have thought she was following and old blueprint but she skipped the part where the guy from the Lakers family she hired had the experience for the position... West, player, head coach for multiple years, head scout then GM, all following in the footsteps of the same predecessor who had groomed him along the way over a ten year period... Magic player, interim coach for 15 games... disappears for 25+ years then becomes head of all basketball operations in the most complex times an NBA FO has ever had to operate under. Huge difference isn't it.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#83 » by tviper » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:54 am

H00PDREAMS wrote:I think Kobe snatching the throne from Magic sounds more and more believable. No Lue though. Absolutely not.


Kobe is more suited personality wise for the President role than Magic, and there are so many reasons for this to happen. More likely to get a max guy with Kobe calling the shots, knows Rob well and they get along great, positions himself with success over Magic as all time greatest Laker, knows the problems with the internal structure and probably has quite a few ideas on how to improve, won't let Klutch run the team, knows how to work the media, etc.

Plus, the hilarious notion of being Lebron's boss has to appeal to him, right? No better time than now. Oh, and if the Lakers win a Championship he has that over Jordan. If this is really a possibility, I can't wait for POBO Kobe to get started cleaning up this mess.

One more: Kobe would have no problem bringing in Jerry West in a VP role to help out the first couple of years and West would probably do it for him.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#84 » by stan francisco » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:15 am

Idiots.
2019-20
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SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#85 » by zimpy27 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:30 am

Danny Darko wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:The hate for Lue seems to be purely because it aligns with LeBron. He is not a bad coach.


Do explain that in depth please.


https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/5/4/17318860/raptors-dwane-casey-cavs-losing

This was a nice article about Lue. His coaching ability was best displayed last post season. He has good plays out of timeouts and he's a very good playoff coach.

Most of the poor qualities of Lue are his odd rotations in the regular season (which is likely a plan to not give away tactics) and his penchant for playing older players more. They are fair criticisms but not worth the drama he's getting.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#86 » by TylersLakers » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:10 am

This organization is so f***ing tone deaf, it's unbelievable.

The fact that Rob Pelinka is running this organization is a damn joke. Hey Lakers, you want Masai Ujiri, Jerry West, David Griffin, or Bob Meyers?

"Nah, we got Rob. We're good."

Embarrassing.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#87 » by LakerClipperFan » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:11 am

So exactly what #Cowherd said, nearly word for word :D

Do you guys know what Bryant said? He said he will not be involved with LAL in an "official capacity" b/c he enjoys his free time. Reportedly, he is very involved with his kids, enjoys spending time with them.

Cowhed lost some cred w/me when I heard him say this - basically sounds like you are parroting Cowherd below. :nod:


tviper wrote:Kobe is more suited personality wise for the President role than Magic, and there are so many reasons for this to happen. More likely to get a max guy with Kobe calling the shots, knows Rob well and they get along great, positions himself with success over Magic as all time greatest Laker, knows the problems with the internal structure and probably has quite a few ideas on how to improve, won't let Klutch run the team, knows how to work the media, etc.

Plus, the hilarious notion of being Lebron's boss has to appeal to him, right? No better time than now. Oh, and if the Lakers win a Championship he has that over Jordan. If this is really a possibility, I can't wait for POBO Kobe to get started cleaning up this mess.

One more: Kobe would have no problem bringing in Jerry West in a VP role to help out the first couple of years and West would probably do it for him.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#88 » by LakerClipperFan » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:24 am

Agree, I would love to see Lue come in and pair up with Bronny.

I also notice that many of the posters on the Lakers page hate the Lakers superstar. It's not just a casual hate, but rather a really passionate hate for the man. Odd to say the least.

zimpy27 wrote:The hate for Lue seems to be purely because it aligns with LeBron. He is not a bad coach.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#89 » by Danny Darko » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:56 am

zimpy27 wrote:
Danny Darko wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:The hate for Lue seems to be purely because it aligns with LeBron. He is not a bad coach.


Do explain that in depth please.


https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/5/4/17318860/raptors-dwane-casey-cavs-losing

This was a nice article about Lue. His coaching ability was best displayed last post season. He has good plays out of timeouts and he's a very good playoff coach.

Most of the poor qualities of Lue are his odd rotations in the regular season (which is likely a plan to not give away tactics) and his penchant for playing older players more. They are fair criticisms but not worth the drama he's getting.



That article is long (I read it all) and basically the whole principle is
A- Lue went to a big lineup vs Toronto.
B- Casey wasn't competent enough to try a better matchup.

It also features this punchline in the end, which is totally my perception of Lue:

Lue, in many ways, is the inverse of Casey. He doesn’t have a system or a coherent set of principles to fall back on, and his teams can look undisciplined and unprepared in the regular season. He just falls back on LeBron, and then shuffles players around him until he finds something that works.


And again they mention really the one thing he did again (change to a bigger lineup):

However, in the playoffs, when flexibility is at a premium, his lack of consistency can become an advantage. Lue can quickly change his team’s identity and adjust to a matchup in a particular series.


IDK man, he's not someone I've ever heard other coaches or experts say "this is a great coach" at all.

I even went hunting for those types of mentions and in response to Lue getting 0 coach of the year votes all you get is Brad Stevens saying:
"I thought it was a lot really good decisions by them and there are 29 really great coaches that I get to steal from all the time and I appreciate that about this league," Stevens said. "Ty is one of them."


Exactly he was one of 29 coaches in the league, with zero coach of the year votes with a team that won the east on talent basically.
The one thing he does is keep fiddling for matchups, which i do appreciate, because some coaches won't do that, but is this is a guy I want to coach this team? No. Still no.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#90 » by Showtime:Part2 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:57 am

LakerClipperFan wrote:Agree, I would love to see Lue come in and pair up with Bronny.

I also notice that many of the posters on the Lakers page hate the Lakers superstar. It's not just a casual hate, but rather a really passionate hate for the man. Odd to say the least.

zimpy27 wrote:The hate for Lue seems to be purely because it aligns with LeBron. He is not a bad coach.


And you’re a lebron homer we get it. Ur not a laker fan. He’s not my superstar pal, guy is a locker room cancer, garbage defender, and led us to the same record as last year. We sacrificed our youth for him and went nowhere. He’s treating the lakers like a retirement home where he can hang w his buddies, drink wine, make movies, and hang w the la elite. I’ve seen enough of your posts, you belong on the cavs forum not here
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#91 » by Showtime:Part2 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 8:01 am

lue Is garbage. He knows one system... lebron ball. Everyone stand around and wait for the kickout. How anyone can defend him is beyond me. Can we just change our logo to team klutch? Christ I feel sick. Might officially jump ship to my local knicks until lebrons stink has left this once great franchise. Growing up in la watching a successful organization seems like a childhood memory
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Prince + filler for Kobe Bryant

To be honest the way Prince has played and with Kobes injury/age/mileage Im not sure I would do that deal either. Still Prince is more important and he wins the head to head battles with Kobe.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#92 » by Revived » Sat Apr 13, 2019 9:16 am

Michael Lucky wrote:No one is arguing this. Our roster isnt at all fit for that system and that is a major problem when hiring a coach who has done it that way only, even if justified.

The firing of Luke was pointless. The good coaches have jobs in the league and arent available.



This isn’t always true though is it? The Bucks hired their HC when he was available last summer.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#93 » by Pythagoras » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:43 pm

I have incredibly strong doubts that Lue and Rob will be a sell to any of the big name FAs this offseason. I know now what it feels like to be a Knicks fan.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#94 » by zimpy27 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:10 pm

Danny Darko wrote:
Spoiler:
zimpy27 wrote:
Danny Darko wrote:
Do explain that in depth please.


https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/5/4/17318860/raptors-dwane-casey-cavs-losing

This was a nice article about Lue. His coaching ability was best displayed last post season. He has good plays out of timeouts and he's a very good playoff coach.

Most of the poor qualities of Lue are his odd rotations in the regular season (which is likely a plan to not give away tactics) and his penchant for playing older players more. They are fair criticisms but not worth the drama he's getting.



That article is long (I read it all) and basically the whole principle is
A- Lue went to a big lineup vs Toronto.
B- Casey wasn't competent enough to try a better matchup.

It also features this punchline in the end, which is totally my perception of Lue:

Lue, in many ways, is the inverse of Casey. He doesn’t have a system or a coherent set of principles to fall back on, and his teams can look undisciplined and unprepared in the regular season. He just falls back on LeBron, and then shuffles players around him until he finds something that works.


And again they mention really the one thing he did again (change to a bigger lineup):

However, in the playoffs, when flexibility is at a premium, his lack of consistency can become an advantage. Lue can quickly change his team’s identity and adjust to a matchup in a particular series.


IDK man, he's not someone I've ever heard other coaches or experts say "this is a great coach" at all.

I even went hunting for those types of mentions and in response to Lue getting 0 coach of the year votes all you get is Brad Stevens saying:
"I thought it was a lot really good decisions by them and there are 29 really great coaches that I get to steal from all the time and I appreciate that about this league," Stevens said. "Ty is one of them."


Exactly he was one of 29 coaches in the league, with zero coach of the year votes with a team that won the east on talent basically.
The one thing he does is keep fiddling for matchups, which i do appreciate, because some coaches won't do that, but is this is a guy I want to coach this team? No. Still no.


Brad Stevens, Steve Kerr, Stan Van Gundy have referred to him as a great coach.
He won an ESPY coach of the year award.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways 

Post#95 » by tamaraw08 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:34 pm

gts1 wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
gts1 wrote:
YES! somebody that knows the game, not some former player that led them to greatness on the floor, that's not a quality to run a team.. She admits she doesn't know the BB side of the game, that alone should disqualify her from running it but since she is going to she needs to find a mentor type to run the team, she needs to learn that side of the game.


Imagine yourself as son of Jerry Buss, A real estate businessman who never owned a Sports team before. He hires Jerry West, a former player who led them greatness on the floor as his GM and actually asked him coach too. Didn't have much experience doing that but was great. He then hires Pat Riley as coach. Previous experience as HC? none. turned out to be great.
West drafts an 18 year old player who never played one game in college. Turned out to be a hall of famer. She followed an old blue print that worked over and over but now in hindsight turned out to be a mistake. n
Jesse Buss, Ryan West seems like competent but yes, they didn't exactly started at the top but they had to start somewhere.
Again, in hindsight, simply getting Magic with so much responsibility was a mistake. I just can't help but wonder if Lebron didn't get injured with no trade rumors and Hart, KCP and Kuzma maintained their above 37% from the 3pt area, would all these chaos really happen.




Riles was not Buss's hire, Buss wanted West to coach the team, he didn't want Riley he wanted somebody who had coached before. (On Chick Hearns' recommendation to West) Riley was hired to be a co head coach with West right next to him but West passed it off to Riley never having had the intention to be a coach again. It was actually a sore spot between Buss and West for a period of time but in that case it makes a very good example of what having the proper people in place can do for a team when the owner is not as informed.

Jeanie may have thought she was following and old blueprint but she skipped the part where the guy from the Lakers family she hired had the experience for the position... West, player, head coach for multiple years, head scout then GM, all following in the footsteps of the same predecessor who had groomed him along the way over a ten year period... Magic player, interim coach for 15 games... disappears for 25+ years then becomes head of all basketball operations in the most complex times an NBA FO has ever had to operate under. Huge difference isn't it.

Thanks for the lengthy info, again, I am not arguing your point. Jeanie skipped some key details about the process of grooming and training part etc.
I hated the Yankees, but they were good esp in pirating assets mostly proven players. I am actually sweating right now thinking about the possibility of them hiring another unproven coach.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#96 » by TylersLakers » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:35 pm

Pythagoras wrote:I have incredibly strong doubts that Lue and Rob will be a sell to any of the big name FAs this offseason. I know now what it feels like to be a Knicks fan.


The only hope at getting a free agent now is if someone like Ujiri or Meyers comes in. That's it.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#97 » by tamaraw08 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 3:49 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
Danny Darko wrote:
Spoiler:
zimpy27 wrote:
https://www.theringer.com/nba/2018/5/4/17318860/raptors-dwane-casey-cavs-losing

This was a nice article about Lue. His coaching ability was best displayed last post season. He has good plays out of timeouts and he's a very good playoff coach.

Most of the poor qualities of Lue are his odd rotations in the regular season (which is likely a plan to not give away tactics) and his penchant for playing older players more. They are fair criticisms but not worth the drama he's getting.



That article is long (I read it all) and basically the whole principle is
A- Lue went to a big lineup vs Toronto.
B- Casey wasn't competent enough to try a better matchup.

It also features this punchline in the end, which is totally my perception of Lue:

Lue, in many ways, is the inverse of Casey. He doesn’t have a system or a coherent set of principles to fall back on, and his teams can look undisciplined and unprepared in the regular season. He just falls back on LeBron, and then shuffles players around him until he finds something that works.


And again they mention really the one thing he did again (change to a bigger lineup):

However, in the playoffs, when flexibility is at a premium, his lack of consistency can become an advantage. Lue can quickly change his team’s identity and adjust to a matchup in a particular series.


IDK man, he's not someone I've ever heard other coaches or experts say "this is a great coach" at all.

I even went hunting for those types of mentions and in response to Lue getting 0 coach of the year votes all you get is Brad Stevens saying:
"I thought it was a lot really good decisions by them and there are 29 really great coaches that I get to steal from all the time and I appreciate that about this league," Stevens said. "Ty is one of them."


Exactly he was one of 29 coaches in the league, with zero coach of the year votes with a team that won the east on talent basically.
The one thing he does is keep fiddling for matchups, which i do appreciate, because some coaches won't do that, but is this is a guy I want to coach this team? No. Still no.


Brad Stevens, Steve Kerr, Stan Van Gundy have referred to him as a great coach.
He won an ESPY coach of the year award.

I don't know if this is true, and even if it is not, I just don't understand all this hatred towards him as if he made so many fatal mistakes before. Some here have suggested great college coaches and assistants who have zero NBA HC experience and I for one do not want to go that route. I hate bashing coaches but I am also not impressed with Monty Williams, the guy have not proven to win at least in the first round of the playoffs. He has a record of under 44%, winning with ONE Western coach of the month, won 2 out of 10 playoff games. And don't get me started with Jason Kidd.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#98 » by Kilroy » Sat Apr 13, 2019 4:52 pm

I don't think anyone is saying Lue is a terrible coach, I think we're saying he's ok...
But we have the opportunity to hire a great coach, and we're talking about hiring an average one who gets along with LeBron... And we also just ran off another at least OK coach... So we're swapping one form of mediocrity for another...
With the main benefit being, this form of Mediocrity is endorsed by LeBron...
And in all honesty, I don't have any faith anything like what we saw in Cleveland would be successful in the West... Especially with the version of LeBron we have now.
Lue was successful because LeBron was a head and shoulders, the best player in the league... He's not anymore.

So bringing in LeBron's guy when we're about to add another star... Potentially a star like AD... Seems short sighted...

Nothing against Lue, he's just not the right coach for this team right now...

And hiring a head coach isn't even our biggest problem right now... It feels like a distraction honestly... Like ignore the fact that we're sticking with Pelinka, because we're desperately searching for our next head coach.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#99 » by tamaraw08 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:05 pm

Kilroy wrote:I don't think anyone is saying Lue is a terrible coach, I think we're saying he's ok...
But we have the opportunity to hire a great coach, and we're talking about hiring an average one who gets along with LeBron... And we also just ran off another at least OK coach... So we're swapping one form of mediocrity for another...
With the main benefit being, this form of Mediocrity is endorsed by LeBron...
And in all honesty, I don't have any faith anything like what we saw in Cleveland would be successful in the West... Especially with the version of LeBron we have now.
Lue was successful because LeBron was a head and shoulders, the best player in the league... He's not anymore.

So bringing in LeBron's guy when we're about to add another star... Potentially a star like AD... Seems short sighted...

Nothing against Lue, he's just not the right coach for this team right now...

And hiring a head coach isn't even our biggest problem right now... It feels like a distraction honestly... Like ignore the fact that we're sticking with Pelinka, because we're desperately searching for our next head coach.

There are so many better coaches than Lue but the problem is that most of them are currently under contract by other teams. I live JVG but I don't think he will leave his cushy/ non stressful job at ESPN.
I really want to know your preference.
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Re: Luke and Lakers part ways; Rob will lead coaching search 

Post#100 » by tamaraw08 » Sat Apr 13, 2019 5:09 pm

TylersLakers wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:I have incredibly strong doubts that Lue and Rob will be a sell to any of the big name FAs this offseason. I know now what it feels like to be a Knicks fan.


The only hope at getting a free agent now is if someone like Ujiri or Meyers comes in. That's it.

I am not sure why theres so much love on Ujiri. He lied to DeRozan and he didn't have to make a promise to him.
If Leonard didn't have a falling out with the Spurs, he will be stuck with the same team that has failed repeatedly the past several years.

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