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The problem with making a Big 3

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Which option do you prefer, A or B?

A - Kyrie, Hart, LeBron, Kuzma, AD plus no bench
14
82%
B - Kyrie, Covington, LeBron, Markannen, Clarke plus decent bench
3
18%
 
Total votes: 17

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The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#1 » by zimpy27 » Fri May 17, 2019 3:45 am

The only way Lakers can get 3 max FA's is to trade for 1. This scenario means that the Lakers need to turn 3 or 4 assets into 1.
That will significantly limit their ability to put out a deep roster.


OPTION A
With AD and Kyrie. Give up Lonzo, Ingram, Wagner, 4th pick.
Year 1: Team is Kyrie, Hart, LeBron, Kuzma, AD, Bonga, 1x MLE at 5m, minimum contracts for the rest.
Year 2: Re-sign AD and can add a late 1st pick, 1xMLE at 9m and 1xBAE at 4m - will be paying 5m luxury tax, total salary of 143m
Year 3: Re-sign a Hart and Kuzma, add a late 1st pick and 1xMLE at 6m- luxury hell starting 20+m, total salary of 150+m

Team not deep enough until Year 2. year 2 probably the best season with Hart, Bonga, the 1st MLE and Kuzma playing for contracts.
Year 3 will be an expensive team and probably gets brought back depending on year 2.
No opportunity to cull any of the young guys so they need to all be worth their spot.

OPTION B
The other side is to just get one max FA (Kyrie). Make some moves to bring in a certain cheap all-star and glue guy, for example: trade Ingram for Covington. Trade pick 4, Kuzma and Lonzo for pick 7 and Markannen.
Year 1: Team is Kyrie, Covington, LeBron, Markannen, Clarke, Bonga, Hart, Wagner, 1x MLE at 5m, a few minimums.
Year 2: Add a late 1st pick, 1xMLE at 6m - no tax, no minimums.
Year 3: Re-sign Markannen, Hart, add a late 1st pick. small tax, no minimums

This team essentially stays together for 3 years unchanging, has flexibility, minimum tax.


Option A has a better starting lineup. Kyrie, Hart, LeBron, Kuzma, AD vs Kyrie, Covington, LeBron, Markannen, Clarke

Option B has the better bench.



I think I'd still go option A but it's not a clear win because if it fails then it fails big.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#2 » by Dr Aki » Fri May 17, 2019 3:53 am

It's way harder to get a 25 yo superstar (if you even get him) then it is to fill out your roster with ring chasing vets and gleague standouts

Shoot your shot, a few young kids with unrealised upsides aren't standing in the way of an arguably more talented trio than Magic, Worthy and Kareem (my big 3 includes Kawhi)
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#3 » by zimpy27 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:11 am

Dr Aki wrote:It's way harder to get a 25 yo superstar (if you even get him) then it is to fill out your roster with ring chasing vets and gleague standouts

Shoot your shot, a few young kids with unrealised upsides aren't standing in the way of an arguably more talented trio than Magic, Worthy and Karerm (my big 3 includes Kawhi)


Yeah I tend to agree but it's interesting to see how limited you can be with a big 3 and I worry about the diminishing returns of having 3 guys take all that money because of what they do on-ball while only 1 can have the ball at a time.

I agree Kawhi, LeBron, AD is the best possible outcome. Likely keeping only Hart as the starting SG, there are a number of cheap PGs coming up in free agency that'd take the $5m MLE available. Rose, Collison, Rozier, Payton, Rubio, Beverley, Rondo, Rivers,IT, Smith, McConnell.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#4 » by Dr Aki » Fri May 17, 2019 4:41 am

zimpy27 wrote:
Dr Aki wrote:It's way harder to get a 25 yo superstar (if you even get him) then it is to fill out your roster with ring chasing vets and gleague standouts

Shoot your shot, a few young kids with unrealised upsides aren't standing in the way of an arguably more talented trio than Magic, Worthy and Karerm (my big 3 includes Kawhi)


Yeah I tend to agree but it's interesting to see how limited you can be with a big 3 and I worry about the diminishing returns of having 3 guys take all that money because of what they do on-ball while only 1 can have the ball at a time.

I agree Kawhi, LeBron, AD is the best possible outcome. Likely keeping only Hart as the starting SG, there are a number of cheap PGs coming up in free agency that'd take the $5m MLE available. Rose, Collison, Rozier, Payton, Rubio, Beverley, Rondo, Rivers,IT, Smith, McConnell.


2 years of (split) MLEs, the BAE, vet mins for 10+ year vets.

That's probably 4-6 guys, trade for other players with Early Bird rights and you can pay them up to the MLE or players with Bird rights and you can fill out a team full of energy.

Then there's the vet buyout market around the trade deadline.

There's a FRP every two years as well as buying a few 2nd rounders here and there.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#5 » by nzahir » Fri May 17, 2019 5:48 am

Dr Aki wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Dr Aki wrote:It's way harder to get a 25 yo superstar (if you even get him) then it is to fill out your roster with ring chasing vets and gleague standouts

Shoot your shot, a few young kids with unrealised upsides aren't standing in the way of an arguably more talented trio than Magic, Worthy and Karerm (my big 3 includes Kawhi)


Yeah I tend to agree but it's interesting to see how limited you can be with a big 3 and I worry about the diminishing returns of having 3 guys take all that money because of what they do on-ball while only 1 can have the ball at a time.

I agree Kawhi, LeBron, AD is the best possible outcome. Likely keeping only Hart as the starting SG, there are a number of cheap PGs coming up in free agency that'd take the $5m MLE available. Rose, Collison, Rozier, Payton, Rubio, Beverley, Rondo, Rivers,IT, Smith, McConnell.


2 years of (split) MLEs, the BAE, vet mins for 10+ year vets.

That's probably 4-6 guys, trade for other players with Early Bird rights and you can pay them up to the MLE or players with Bird rights and you can fill out a team full of energy.

Then there's the vet buyout market around the trade deadline.

There's a FRP every of years as well as buying a few 2nd rounders here and there.

Splitting a 4.75 room exception/mle is nothing. If you split it, its going to be 2 meh guys likely. Rather one guy I can trust in a tough playoff series.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#6 » by Landsberger » Fri May 17, 2019 5:55 am

For me it seems like debate for just us fans. Ownership has shown their hand IMHO. They were going to trade everyone not named LeBron, picks etc. to get a guy who can't seem to play a full season..... but has "star power". That one failed move says a whole lot if you're listening.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#7 » by zimpy27 » Fri May 17, 2019 5:59 am

Dr Aki wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Dr Aki wrote:It's way harder to get a 25 yo superstar (if you even get him) then it is to fill out your roster with ring chasing vets and gleague standouts

Shoot your shot, a few young kids with unrealised upsides aren't standing in the way of an arguably more talented trio than Magic, Worthy and Karerm (my big 3 includes Kawhi)


Yeah I tend to agree but it's interesting to see how limited you can be with a big 3 and I worry about the diminishing returns of having 3 guys take all that money because of what they do on-ball while only 1 can have the ball at a time.

I agree Kawhi, LeBron, AD is the best possible outcome. Likely keeping only Hart as the starting SG, there are a number of cheap PGs coming up in free agency that'd take the $5m MLE available. Rose, Collison, Rozier, Payton, Rubio, Beverley, Rondo, Rivers,IT, Smith, McConnell.


2 years of (split) MLEs, the BAE, vet mins for 10+ year vets.

That's probably 4-6 guys, trade for other players with Early Bird rights and you can pay them up to the MLE or players with Bird rights and you can fill out a team full of energy.

Then there's the vet buyout market around the trade deadline.

There's a FRP every of years as well as buying a few 2nd rounders here and there.


Depends how many FRPs go to the Pels. I can't see much in the way of trades happening. I wouldn't want to split the MLEs, you need those 5m players.

Probably best bet is getting 2 MLEs and the BAE, then mix of 2-ways and vet mins.

It will be all or nothing on year 2
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#8 » by zimpy27 » Fri May 17, 2019 6:39 am

Landsberger wrote:For me it seems like debate for just us fans. Ownership has shown their hand IMHO. They were going to trade everyone not named LeBron, picks etc. to get a guy who can't seem to play a full season..... but has "star power". That one failed move says a whole lot if you're listening.


It certainly seems that way. It's big risk though. 35 year old LeBron, Kyrie (who never seems to play consecutive playoffs because of health) and AD (who is a liability health wise for sure).

Alternative to all is just keep existing team and go for 3 and D FAs. Maybe try make the most of LeBron.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#9 » by SlimShady83 » Fri May 17, 2019 6:46 am

I just don't like the idea of giving BOTH of Ingram or Kuzma ... 1 or the other is OK, but not both

1 of them if not both of them gonna be an allstar soon IMO
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#10 » by Landsberger » Fri May 17, 2019 3:38 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:For me it seems like debate for just us fans. Ownership has shown their hand IMHO. They were going to trade everyone not named LeBron, picks etc. to get a guy who can't seem to play a full season..... but has "star power". That one failed move says a whole lot if you're listening.


It certainly seems that way. It's big risk though. 35 year old LeBron, Kyrie (who never seems to play consecutive playoffs because of health) and AD (who is a liability health wise for sure).

Alternative to all is just keep existing team and go for 3 and D FAs. Maybe try make the most of LeBron.


The rumblings we're hiring from inside the organization I'm sure are connected to this path they seem to be on.

The problem with championships is that they are lightening in a bottle. A guy like LeBon, even at this age, puts you in a position few other teams are in if you support him the right way. Question is..... can we do that and can we do it before he declines. It's going to take everyone we have I'm afraid because they've already shown that they'd trade everyone and the future for Davis who I think is a very good player but not transcendent. It's like their playing a video game.....
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#11 » by zimpy27 » Fri May 17, 2019 4:41 pm

Landsberger wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:For me it seems like debate for just us fans. Ownership has shown their hand IMHO. They were going to trade everyone not named LeBron, picks etc. to get a guy who can't seem to play a full season..... but has "star power". That one failed move says a whole lot if you're listening.


It certainly seems that way. It's big risk though. 35 year old LeBron, Kyrie (who never seems to play consecutive playoffs because of health) and AD (who is a liability health wise for sure).

Alternative to all is just keep existing team and go for 3 and D FAs. Maybe try make the most of LeBron.


The rumblings we're hiring from inside the organization I'm sure are connected to this path they seem to be on.

The problem with championships is that they are lightening in a bottle. A guy like LeBon, even at this age, puts you in a position few other teams are in if you support him the right way. Question is..... can we do that and can we do it before he declines. It's going to take everyone we have I'm afraid because they've already shown that they'd trade everyone and the future for Davis who I think is a very good player but not transcendent. It's like their playing a video game.....


The good thing about AD is if you reimagine the LeBron, Kyrie, Love Cavs then AD essentially is one of the best players to have Love's role.

My thoughts are that Lonzo, Hart, LeBron, Kuzma all had really good fit together. And the 3 without LeBron cost $14m a year. That's such good value. The ideal to me would be to just add a great C, upgrade the SG and get a 6th man. Something as simple as trading ingram for Covington, get Vucevic and Millsap, draft Garland or Hunter.
Lonzo, Covington, LeBron, Millsap, Vucevic
Garland, Hart and Kuzma off the bench.

No max FA but a valuable lineup nonetheless. Much more flexiblility as well.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#12 » by Landsberger » Fri May 17, 2019 6:30 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
It certainly seems that way. It's big risk though. 35 year old LeBron, Kyrie (who never seems to play consecutive playoffs because of health) and AD (who is a liability health wise for sure).

Alternative to all is just keep existing team and go for 3 and D FAs. Maybe try make the most of LeBron.


The rumblings we're hiring from inside the organization I'm sure are connected to this path they seem to be on.

The problem with championships is that they are lightening in a bottle. A guy like LeBon, even at this age, puts you in a position few other teams are in if you support him the right way. Question is..... can we do that and can we do it before he declines. It's going to take everyone we have I'm afraid because they've already shown that they'd trade everyone and the future for Davis who I think is a very good player but not transcendent. It's like their playing a video game.....


The good thing about AD is if you reimagine the LeBron, Kyrie, Love Cavs then AD essentially is one of the best players to have Love's role.

My thoughts are that Lonzo, Hart, LeBron, Kuzma all had really good fit together. And the 3 without LeBron cost $14m a year. That's such good value. The ideal to me would be to just add a great C, upgrade the SG and get a 6th man. Something as simple as trading ingram for Covington, get Vucevic and Millsap, draft Garland or Hunter.
Lonzo, Covington, LeBron, Millsap, Vucevic
Garland, Hart and Kuzma off the bench.

No max FA but a valuable lineup nonetheless. Much more flexiblility as well.


I don't disagree. I couldn't care less about the star power of a given player over fit. I think Vucevic would be a fantastic fit with Kuzma and Bron in the front court. Get a 2 guard that can finish and stretch the floor and fill out the bench.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#13 » by zimpy27 » Fri May 17, 2019 7:09 pm

Landsberger wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
The rumblings we're hiring from inside the organization I'm sure are connected to this path they seem to be on.

The problem with championships is that they are lightening in a bottle. A guy like LeBon, even at this age, puts you in a position few other teams are in if you support him the right way. Question is..... can we do that and can we do it before he declines. It's going to take everyone we have I'm afraid because they've already shown that they'd trade everyone and the future for Davis who I think is a very good player but not transcendent. It's like their playing a video game.....


The good thing about AD is if you reimagine the LeBron, Kyrie, Love Cavs then AD essentially is one of the best players to have Love's role.

My thoughts are that Lonzo, Hart, LeBron, Kuzma all had really good fit together. And the 3 without LeBron cost $14m a year. That's such good value. The ideal to me would be to just add a great C, upgrade the SG and get a 6th man. Something as simple as trading ingram for Covington, get Vucevic and Millsap, draft Garland or Hunter.
Lonzo, Covington, LeBron, Millsap, Vucevic
Garland, Hart and Kuzma off the bench.

No max FA but a valuable lineup nonetheless. Much more flexiblility as well.


I don't disagree. I couldn't care less about the star power of a given player over fit. I think Vucevic would be a fantastic fit with Kuzma and Bron in the front court. Get a 2 guard that can finish and stretch the floor and fill out the bench.


Yeah, I think Vucevic would be great for under $25m, I hope Gasol did the Lakers a favor by shutting him down in the playoffs.

I've actually rethought the draft pick. I think it needs to be Brandon Clarke. If you want to win a championship you will need a guy to defend tall guys that can play perimeter on offense like Giannis, KD, AD. Clarke would also be a great PF complement to Vucevic as well as a great small ball C with Kuzma. I think it's worth trading down to get Clarke and another asset if going this route.

I think trading Ingram for Covington is a win-win for both teams but would wait until mid-season.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#14 » by thebigbird » Fri May 17, 2019 7:32 pm

SlimShady83 wrote:I just don't like the idea of giving BOTH of Ingram or Kuzma ... 1 or the other is OK, but not both

1 of them if not both of them gonna be an allstar soon IMO

Kuzma is the guy I want the Lakers to keep if possible. I'm not high on Ingram, but I like Kuzma. He can get buckets.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#15 » by Spanish_Laker » Fri May 17, 2019 9:23 pm

No Kyrie please. I don't want that toxic guy on our squad.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#16 » by NBAWestFan » Fri May 17, 2019 9:38 pm

I agree I don't really think Kyrie 2019/2020 is the same guy as 2015

Kawhi SF, Shooting Guard
Lebron PF, SF
AD Center

This is what the Big 3 should be.

Rondo,
McGee
Hopefully Kuzma is left

Sign JJ Redick and other shooters and other Free Agents will come just for a great chance to make it deep and for the ring
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#17 » by LAKESHOW » Fri May 17, 2019 11:46 pm

The whole.premise for the Knicks is KD. But thats all changed with KD out for the season. Kyrie aint goin. AD aint signing long term. No big 3 in NY means, big 3 opportunties for us.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#18 » by LBC SoCal » Sun May 19, 2019 12:47 am

I like the idea of 2 stars surrounded by a deeper team of players that compliment them. Three point shooters, lock down defenders, etc surrounding Lebron and preferebly Kawhi.

If we can't get Kawhi and we end up trading for AD, then we should use the cap space to fill up the roster with several quality players instead of 1 guy.
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#19 » by Dr Aki » Sun May 19, 2019 2:50 am

Spanish_Laker wrote:No Kyrie please. I don't want that toxic guy on our squad.


lol, we gonna start with the choosy beggar stuff?
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Re: The problem with making a Big 3 

Post#20 » by SlimShady83 » Thu May 23, 2019 9:21 am

Why can't we have Ingram OR "The real King" Kuz as a 3rd star player?
Bring back 80's 90's basketball please :)

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