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Assuming for a second that Lakers can recruit and sign Kyrie and Butler, do you think that's a strong enough big 3 to win it all? (assuming a proper supporting cast is put in place).

They can’t get both.
They have one max slot.

We're going to pass on them and just sign Kawhi.

Lebron and butler with our core is a big upgrade than last year. 2-4 seed in west.


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Can only have one, I'd prefer LeBron and Butler because of what positions they cover between them.

LeBron and Butler surrounded by the young guys and some shooters would be a 3-seed in the west even without AD.

If Durant leaves Golden State then LeBron just needs a max free agent + shooters to put the Lakers in contention to win the West.

Kyrie &Butler is a BAD Idea

Both them two and Lebron need the ball.

I would Take Butler and Shooters who can Defensd
Butler and KD works better

Kawhi and KD would be the best

Kawhi and Klay is 2nd best and not far behind the KD in terms of chemistry

Kyrie and Butler sounds like a butting of heads.


Kyrie, Butler & Lebron = Bad Chemistry

Lonzo, Klay, Kawhi & Lebron - Championship Contenders with the right bench

Lonzo, KD, Kawhi & Lebron - Same a great team but the Lakers can only sign one Max guy. Perhaps a little less than max or 1 year deal for one or both to make it work. Guys want to win and they already have enough. More $ and Max is about ego's & agents than needing the extra $.

Hearing LeGroin’s self congratulatory victory speaches is enough. I couldn’t stand seeing Kyrie adding to that, the way he learned how from the king.

Lonzo, Leonard, Ingram, Durant, AD

That’s good on-court chemistry.

Is Butler worth the Max, that is the question?

SlimShady83 wrote:Is Butler worth the Max, that is the question?

The answer is, not as long as Ingram is on the roster filling the exact same role.

Penberthy wrote:

SlimShady83 wrote:Is Butler worth the Max, that is the question?

The answer is, not as long as Ingram is on the roster filling the exact same role.

The explanation should be Ingram isn't 20mil player himself which he will be after this year and even at his age, he can't outplay or out defend Butler, let alone out work or help a team win more than him.

If you have the choice of Kyrie and Butler in the back court replacing Ingram and Ball from last year there is no choice. You just tell them bye bitch and enjoy Kuzma cheap contract starting next to them and LeBron.

And yeah Butler is better than Bradley Beal too and helps teams with more than AD has, so it's no question. If you know both will come and you can get a sucker like the Bulls to pay the 7th pick for Zo and another sucker to pay for Ingram coming off blood clots, a down year, and trying to get an extension, you do it for pure cap space and sign those two. Then pay a big with the exemption

kblo247 wrote:

Penberthy wrote:

SlimShady83 wrote:Is Butler worth the Max, that is the question?

The answer is, not as long as Ingram is on the roster filling the exact same role.

The explanation should be Ingram isn't 20mil player himself which he will be after this year and even at his age, he can't outplay or out defend Butler, let alone out work or help a team win more than him.

If you have the choice of Kyrie and Butler in the back court replacing Ingram and Ball from last year there is no choice. You just tell them bye bitch and enjoy Kuzma cheap contract starting next to them and LeBron.

And yeah Butler is better than Bradley Beal too and helps teams with more than AD has, so it's no question. If you know both will come and you can get a sucker like the Bulls to pay the 7th pick for Zo and another sucker to pay for Ingram coming off blood clots, a down year, and trying to get an extension, you do it for pure cap space and sign those two. Then pay a big with the exemption

Ingram is still young and developing, getting better every season - he can be used a 3rd string star OR Kuz - I really think we need to keep one of them as a 3rd string star type of role and develop them for the future - Lebum only going to be here for 3 more years (hopefully no more) and then what after that? by then ingram/kuz will "almost?" be in their prime *not sure on ages by then*.

Gotta stop letting OR trading players away just because we're afraid to pay them the $$$ "if you build it, they will come"

Ingram and Lonzo are both defensive stars. Elite. Kobe broke out in his third year. I expect both Lonzo and Ingram to blow up on the league this fall.

Ask Lillard and McCollum what happens in the playoffs to guards who don’t play defense.

No to no-defense and ball-hog Kyrie.

If we have a Ball, Leonard, Ingram as our frontline defense, watch out. Add Nurkic/McGee and LBJ can slack on defense for the first 60 games. We’ll still run the break into a 2-3 seed for the post season.

Butler will be 30 at the start of the season. Hard pass.

stan francisco wrote:Ingram and Lonzo are both defensive stars. Elite. Kobe broke out in his third year. I expect both Lonzo and Ingram to blow up on the league this fall.

Ask Lillard and McCollum what happens in the playoffs to guards who don’t play defense.

No to no-defense and ball-hog Kyrie.

If we have a Ball, Leonard, Ingram as our frontline defense, watch out. Add Nurkic/McGee and LBJ can slack on defense for the first 60 games. We’ll still run the break into a 2-3 seed for the post season.

Kobe was an all star in year 2 at 19, Ingram is 4th year trying to break out and Ball 3rd year trying to play enough games to equate to two seasons with shooting splits that make Fisher at the same stage of his career cringe. And to be clear at their age Kobe was a multiple time all sad, on way to being a champion, an all nba player both ways, and out played shaq in game 7. That's a laughable comparison to make because if you set the bar at Kobe, they should have made an all star team already and BI should be competing for all nba by now at this age instead of one of the worst RPMs there are out there for starters

Ask Ball and Ingram how to win games with guards who can't make free throws or shoot threes and stay hurt .. Oh yeah you the team end up in the lotto like they have been every year of their career and them in trade talks.

Ingram is not even elite defensively. No statistic shows him as an elite defender, it's laughable. He's not Tayshaun Prince. He should try to be but he gets his ass it up regularly. Butler is still better than him both ways and has been the past two years, and will be the next 2. A better defender and scorer. A better playmaker too

And do not compare CJ and Dame to Kyrie. Dame has been swept out the playoffs for a reason. He's a loser like a modern day Van Exel. He can show flashes versus a dummy Westbrook. But versus a real talent who is smarter than him, sees a play better, and can get in his head he's going to piss on himself which is what happened vs Curry and Rondo. Hell Rondo schooled him this past season here too while Dame kicked Zo's ass. Dame reminds me of Nick vs Stockton, a choker and front runner whose bravado goes away. Kyrie on the other hand has irrational confidence and does **** like he did to GS in the finals and game 7. Yeah Boston was a bad look, but Stevens should wear the majority of that blame because he could not coach talent or ego

Obviously Kawhi is the top target, but if it is between Butler and Kyrie, Butler is the better fit, while Kyrie has the experience both with Lebron and deep in the playoffs as well as being 3 years younger. At the end of the day, I would just defer to Lebron. If he wants Kyrie and Kyrie is willing to come, then sign him.

lakerRD wrote:They can’t get both.
They have one max slot.

Only way is if Butler or Kyrie opts in and we trade for them, highly unlikely though

kblo247 wrote:

Penberthy wrote:

SlimShady83 wrote:Is Butler worth the Max, that is the question?

The answer is, not as long as Ingram is on the roster filling the exact same role.

The explanation should be Ingram isn't 20mil player himself which he will be after this year and even at his age, he can't outplay or out defend Butler, let alone out work or help a team win more than him.

If you have the choice of Kyrie and Butler in the back court replacing Ingram and Ball from last year there is no choice. You just tell them bye bitch and enjoy Kuzma cheap contract starting next to them and LeBron.

And yeah Butler is better than Bradley Beal too and helps teams with more than AD has, so it's no question. If you know both will come and you can get a sucker like the Bulls to pay the 7th pick for Zo and another sucker to pay for Ingram coming off blood clots, a down year, and trying to get an extension, you do it for pure cap space and sign those two. Then pay a big with the exemption

This is where I'm at with Ingram as well. We need to move him. If we can get one of Kyrie or Butler to come for less than max that would be ideal. We could then move Ingram, Ball and the 4th for either another top player or pieces to fill out the roster.

kblo247 wrote:

stan francisco wrote:Ingram and Lonzo are both defensive stars. Elite. Kobe broke out in his third year. I expect both Lonzo and Ingram to blow up on the league this fall.

Ask Lillard and McCollum what happens in the playoffs to guards who don’t play defense.

No to no-defense and ball-hog Kyrie.

If we have a Ball, Leonard, Ingram as our frontline defense, watch out. Add Nurkic/McGee and LBJ can slack on defense for the first 60 games. We’ll still run the break into a 2-3 seed for the post season.

Kobe was an all star in year 2 at 19, Ingram is 4th year trying to break out and Ball 3rd year trying to play enough games to equate to two seasons with shooting splits that make Fisher at the same stage of his career cringe. And to be clear at their age Kobe was a multiple time all sad, on way to being a champion, an all nba player both ways, and out played shaq in game 7. That's a laughable comparison to make because if you set the bar at Kobe, they should have made an all star team already and BI should be competing for all nba by now at this age instead of one of the worst RPMs there are out there for starters

Ask Ball and Ingram how to win games with guards who can't make free throws or shoot threes and stay hurt .. Oh yeah you the team end up in the lotto like they have been every year of their career and them in trade talks.

Ingram is not even elite defensively. No statistic shows him as an elite defender, it's laughable. He's not Tayshaun Prince. He should try to be but he gets his ass it up regularly. Butler is still better than him both ways and has been the past two years, and will be the next 2. A better defender and scorer. A better playmaker too

And do not compare CJ and Dame to Kyrie. Dame has been swept out the playoffs for a reason. He's a loser like a modern day Van Exel. He can show flashes versus a dummy Westbrook. But versus a real talent who is smarter than him, sees a play better, and can get in his head he's going to piss on himself which is what happened vs Curry and Rondo. Hell Rondo schooled him this past season here too while Dame kicked Zo's ass. Dame reminds me of Nick vs Stockton, a choker and front runner whose bravado goes away. Kyrie on the other hand has irrational confidence and does **** like he did to GS in the finals and game 7. Yeah Boston was a bad look, but Stevens should wear the majority of that blame because he could not coach talent or ego

I agree with most of your take esp the bolded ones. Ingram is a pretty good defender but he's not elite. Lonzo looks good on defense but BOTH can't even stay healthy the past 2 years and yes missing 60% of your shots from 15 feet with NOBODY in front of you is alarming.
BTW, Boston with Kyrie ranked 6th best on defense while they ranked 14th without him in 2016 so I don't understand this notion that he's a weak link on defense when Cavs ranked 29th AFTER he got traded.
I am not sure I agree with your take about Dame though. I can't picture him chocking with a better supporting casts. Yes, they ambushed by Pelicans 2 playoffs ago but other than that, he was pretty good.

kblo247 wrote:

stan francisco wrote:Ingram and Lonzo are both defensive stars. Elite. Kobe broke out in his third year. I expect both Lonzo and Ingram to blow up on the league this fall.

Ask Lillard and McCollum what happens in the playoffs to guards who don’t play defense.

No to no-defense and ball-hog Kyrie.

If we have a Ball, Leonard, Ingram as our frontline defense, watch out. Add Nurkic/McGee and LBJ can slack on defense for the first 60 games. We’ll still run the break into a 2-3 seed for the post season.

Kobe was an all star in year 2 at 19, Ingram is 4th year trying to break out and Ball 3rd year trying to play enough games to equate to two seasons with shooting splits that make Fisher at the same stage of his career cringe. And to be clear at their age Kobe was a multiple time all sad, on way to being a champion, an all nba player both ways, and out played shaq in game 7. That's a laughable comparison to make because if you set the bar at Kobe, they should have made an all star team already and BI should be competing for all nba by now at this age instead of one of the worst RPMs there are out there for starters

Ask Ball and Ingram how to win games with guards who can't make free throws or shoot threes and stay hurt .. Oh yeah you the team end up in the lotto like they have been every year of their career and them in trade talks.

Ingram is not even elite defensively. No statistic shows him as an elite defender, it's laughable. He's not Tayshaun Prince. He should try to be but he gets his ass it up regularly. Butler is still better than him both ways and has been the past two years, and will be the next 2. A better defender and scorer. A better playmaker too

And do not compare CJ and Dame to Kyrie. Dame has been swept out the playoffs for a reason. He's a loser like a modern day Van Exel. He can show flashes versus a dummy Westbrook. But versus a real talent who is smarter than him, sees a play better, and can get in his head he's going to piss on himself which is what happened vs Curry and Rondo. Hell Rondo schooled him this past season here too while Dame kicked Zo's ass. Dame reminds me of Nick vs Stockton, a choker and front runner whose bravado goes away. Kyrie on the other hand has irrational confidence and does **** like he did to GS in the finals and game 7. Yeah Boston was a bad look, but Stevens should wear the majority of that blame because he could not coach talent or ego

Your horrible take on Dame aside. With all this being said about Ingram and Ball, what’s the incentive for other teams to give up allstars for them? At this point I think they can be very good complimentary players like Draymond Green but are they the guys you want to build your franchise around?