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Myth: BI is not a Good Defender

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Myth: BI is not a Good Defender 

Post#1 » by kblo247 » Tue May 28, 2019 6:00 pm

By RPM he is the 54th best defensive SF in the league and the 330th best defensive player in the league.


He is a bum at that end up to this point. So why do people keep talking about how he, Zo (who is an actual factual good defender), and Jimmy/Kawhi will lockdown when Lebron had a better defensive season with his laziness and age?
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Re: Myth: BI is a Good Defender 

Post#2 » by stan francisco » Tue May 28, 2019 8:55 pm

Watch his impact, don’t blindly read stats. Especially not in a season with some 100 games being lost to injuries of starters and stars.

His lateral quickness isn’t great but it doesn’t matter much because he’s very deceptive when it comes to his reach. He often looks beat but more often than not still deflects and alters both shots and passes due to his length. I’m not sure what stats you read but I see guards turning around and reconsidering when BI with his 15’9” wingspan goes down into his defensive stance. I see small forward avoiding the jumper they’d otherwise like to take. I see PFs surprised by his blocks from what should be too far away, hesitating next possession. BI’s positional defense is good. He reads and anticipates really well. Those details and more are things that stats don’t reveal.
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PG: Caruso / Bradley / Rondo / Norvell
SG: Green / Cook / KCP / Daniels
SF: James / **Iggy**/ THT
PF: Davis / Kuzma / Cacok / Dudley
C: McGee / Cousins / **Pau**

Starters: PG: LBJ / SG: DG / SF: KK / PF: AD / C: JMG
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Re: Myth: BI is a Good Defender 

Post#3 » by Slava » Tue May 28, 2019 9:26 pm

I'm happy to hear you have evolved to the point of discovering RPM, now the next step is to try and put it into context.

While you're at RPM, your personal Jesus, Kobe had more seasons with negative defensive BPM than positive.
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Re: Myth: BI is a Good Defender 

Post#4 » by Pythagoras » Wed May 29, 2019 2:35 am

Meanwhile his other advanced defensive stats such as net defensive field goal%: -3.5, and defensive win shares: .106, both rank him firmly in the top 20th percentile for the league. So yeah, he’s a pretty damn good defender.
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Re: Myth: BI is a Good Defender 

Post#5 » by Slink » Wed May 29, 2019 3:16 am

This article assumes a lot but here goes: https://lakeshowlife.com/2019/05/07/los-angeles-lakers-player-comps-brandon-ingram-vs-kobe-bryant/

How did Los Angeles Lakers forward, Brandon Ingram‘s third season in the NBA compared to the legendary Kobe Bryant? Let’s take a look.

Here’s Brandon Ingram’s 3rd-year statistics:

Age 21, 52 games played, 18.3 PPG, 5.1 RPG, 3 APG, 14 FGA, .497 FG%, .330 3P%, .518 eFG%

Here’s Kobe Bryant’s 3rd-year statistics:

Age 20, 50 games played, 19.9 PPG, 5.3 RPG, 3.8 APG, 15.6 FGA, .465 FG%, .267 3P%, .482 eFG%

Before you kill me for comparing Brandon Ingram to an all-time great, give a hard look at their statistics: their strangely similar, with Ingram actually having slightly better shooting numbers.


Statistics aren’t everything, so breath in everything you know about Brandon Ingram, let it swirl around your stomach for a moment, and then allow it land at the bottom of your belly. What does your gut tell you about Ingram’s future? Can he become a superstar?

My gut tells me that Brandon Ingram’s going to be the next Kobe Bryant. Here’s why.

Brandon Ingram’s mentality differentiates him from the other young NBA players. During the beginning of the season, Ingram shot too many off-the-dribble mid-range jumpers, most of which clanged off the rim.

It was ugly watching Brandon try to take over the offense time and time again throughout the first portion of the year, only to see him miss, but his confidence was very similar to another young and brash NBA player; Kobe Bryant.


Brandon Ingram and Kobe Bryant’s games on the court are also very similar. Both players have the ability to score at every level of the court.

Here’s Brandon Ingram’s 3rd year shooting statistics:

0-3 feet: 68%
3-10 feet: 44%
10-16 feet: 39%
16- 3PT: 44%
3P: 33%

Here’s Kobe Bryant’s 5th season shot chart (Unfortunately, Kobe’s 3rd season shooting numbers aren’t available on www.basketball-reference.com, however, the website does have his 5th-year statistics):

0-3 feet: 65%
3-10 feet: 40%
10-16 feet: 46%
16- 3PT: 41%
3P: 30%
Brandon Ingram managed to shoot better than Kobe Bryant during his 5th season (one in which he was an All-Star and averaged over 25 points per game) at every area on the court except from 10-16 feet, but many of the talking heads who chirp on the major sports networks act like he’s a scrub.

Ingram was also 5th in defensive win shares among all players 21 or younger, making Brandon the only fledgling player to finish the season as a great offensive player and an exceptional ball hawk as well. Compare Brandon’s defensive numbers to the top-5 offensive players:

Brandon Ingram: 0.106 DWS

Luka Doncic: 0.084 DWS

Lauri Markkanen: 0.063 DWS

John Collins: 0.058 DWS

Trae Young: 0.045 DWS

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Re: Myth: BI is a Good Defender 

Post#6 » by what would jack bauer do? » Wed May 29, 2019 4:01 am

So should we change the thread title?
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Re: Myth: BI is a Good Defender 

Post#7 » by Showtime:Part2 » Wed May 29, 2019 4:06 am

kblo247 wrote:By RPM he is the 54th best defensive SF in the league and the 330th best defensive player in the league.


He is a bum at that end up to this point. So why do people keep talking about how he, Zo (who is an actual factual good defender), and Jimmy/Kawhi will lockdown when Lebron had a better defensive season with his laziness and age?


He probably had a worse rpm than lebron but he was 10x the defensive player. Use your eyes
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Re: Myth: BI is a Good Defender 

Post#8 » by stan francisco » Wed May 29, 2019 4:24 am

what would jack bauer do? wrote:So should we change the thread title?


Yes.

“Fact: .... “
2019-20
PG: Caruso / Bradley / Rondo / Norvell
SG: Green / Cook / KCP / Daniels
SF: James / **Iggy**/ THT
PF: Davis / Kuzma / Cacok / Dudley
C: McGee / Cousins / **Pau**

Starters: PG: LBJ / SG: DG / SF: KK / PF: AD / C: JMG
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Re: Myth: BI is a Good Defender 

Post#9 » by stan francisco » Wed May 29, 2019 7:32 pm

Somebody please change the title before Linda Rambis reads it and believes it to be true.
2019-20
PG: Caruso / Bradley / Rondo / Norvell
SG: Green / Cook / KCP / Daniels
SF: James / **Iggy**/ THT
PF: Davis / Kuzma / Cacok / Dudley
C: McGee / Cousins / **Pau**

Starters: PG: LBJ / SG: DG / SF: KK / PF: AD / C: JMG
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Re: Myth: BI is a Good Defender 

Post#10 » by LAKESHOW » Wed May 29, 2019 8:24 pm

BIs breakout year comin up. Book it.
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Re: Myth: BI is a Good Defender 

Post#11 » by kblo247 » Wed May 29, 2019 10:10 pm

Slava wrote:I'm happy to hear you have evolved to the point of discovering RPM, now the next step is to try and put it into context.

While you're at RPM, your personal Jesus, Kobe had more seasons with negative defensive BPM than positive.

Let the gate go because you know I told the truth years ago when we traded for Nash and signed Dantoni, the team was going down.

Then I reiterated and said that Mitch and Jim was a mess but you would say no. Then you would say Mitch did well but when I brought up the fact he depleted the 3 peat team of all depth especially the 01 team losing Lue and Grant, the. Wasted Kobe’s prime you moved the goal post.

When I said Randle was not a starter and bad defensive player you said I was pushing an agenda yet here he is at a -1200 for his career on the court and no team he’s played a big role on is competive. Then when I was calling out JC for playing no D you would get mad.

Let’s be real here I speak the truth. Ingram is not an elite defensive player. He is not a scorer by any means. He’s not an elite play maker. I cited Kuzma vs him early this past year and pt them side but side and you had no argument but saying but I like BI, not results in the role.

As it stands now BI is a guy who hasn’t averaged 20, hasn’t been elite defensively, hasn’t made the leap to be considered as an all star like a young Kobe was at the age. He’s a piece that hasn’t panned out or earned his extension he’s due this summer

I’m your personal truth teller around these parts
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Re: Myth: BI is not a Good Defender 

Post#12 » by milesfides » Thu May 30, 2019 3:07 pm

He's inconsistent. He was phenomenal in some games, and transcendent in some stretches within a game. But to be a good defender, he has to be a problem for the other team most nights.

He's a young player in a bad situation. He's also had an insufficient physical development program, poor defensive coaching, and poor role models of what a great defender should be.

There's little question in my mind - if Ingram were drafted by the Spurs, he'd be an amazing two-way player right now. Or Golden State - what would Iguodala and Draymond teach that kid?

There's no doubt Ingram would be playing harder on defense, providing better weak side help, cleaning boards, reading passing lanes, etc.

In fact, I would hire Andrei Kirilenko as his personal defensive coach, the guy who put up 14 points, 8 rebounds, 9 assists, 6 steals, and 7 blocks.

That's what Ingram's true potential is, not a Kobe Bryant or a Kevin Durant. And that's a great thing.
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Re: Myth: BI is not a Good Defender 

Post#13 » by kblo247 » Thu May 30, 2019 7:12 pm

milesfides wrote:He's inconsistent. He was phenomenal in some games, and transcendent in some stretches within a game. But to be a good defender, he has to be a problem for the other team most nights.

He's a young player in a bad situation. He's also had an insufficient physical development program, poor defensive coaching, and poor role models of what a great defender should be.

There's little question in my mind - if Ingram were drafted by the Spurs, he'd be an amazing two-way player right now. Or Golden State - what would Iguodala and Draymond teach that kid?

There's no doubt Ingram would be playing harder on defense, providing better weak side help, cleaning boards, reading passing lanes, etc.

In fact, I would hire Andrei Kirilenko as his personal defensive coach, the guy who put up 14 points, 8 rebounds, 9 assists, 6 steals, and 7 blocks.

That's what Ingram's true potential is, not a Kobe Bryant or a Kevin Durant. And that's a great thing.


I would say more Tayshaun Prince than AK47. AK had phenomenal bounce to his steps. BI isn’t near the athlete that AK or a Marion is. He’s far more Plastic Man or Prince with his lack of speed and pop.
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