ImageImageImageImageImage

If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for?

Moderators: TyCobb, Kilroy, Danny Darko

User avatar
Kilroy
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 16,476
And1: 7,171
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Location: The Motel 9 in Vegas
       

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#21 » by Kilroy » Wed Jun 5, 2019 7:24 pm

tv24lakers wrote:Allow me to say this again, as I believe the point has been lost.

From a PR perspective alone, trading Lebron would be incredibly disastrous. It essentially conveys to the outside world the ineptitude of Lakers front office in trading away the biggest name in all of sports today after just 1 season. Forget free agency signings, highly sought out players would not want to join the Lakers knowing how we royally eff'd up Lebron. It would take a minimum of 5 years and all new management to make up for that blunder.

At this point we just need to accept and make the best of the situation.


It would only look stupid if you made a stupid trade and the team suffered... Don't over-estimate how concerned fans are with a team having a certain player... Laker fans are already turning on LeBron...
Also don't overestimate how much other players care what we do to LeBron... Players are concerned with themselves first.

And caring what other teams around the league think about the moves you make is a weak-sister stance... And one that ensures mediocrity.

"The Optics" is generally, some BS people bring out who secretly hope the Lakers don't get better...

The reason why we shouldn't trade LeBron at this point is much simpler than all that... We shouldn't trade him because pairing him with AD and potentially Kawhi or Kyrie, would make us way better than trading him for whoever we could get for him...
And because we probably wouldn't get a whole lot right now anyway, because those same teams in the "Optics" discussions wouldn't want to give up a whole lot for LeBron right now, thinking if we want to trade him, it's because we're desperate.
Which is why the OP decided to ridiculously include the #4 pick in a LeBron trade... Because we might have to include it in order to get anything of equal value to LeBron... Hence why trading LeBron right now would be like buying a Lamborghini, driving it around the block a couple times, and then trading it in...
Adrian "ThaClippers" Wojnarowski
NBAWestFan
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,353
And1: 109
Joined: Mar 20, 2006

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#22 » by NBAWestFan » Wed Jun 5, 2019 8:54 pm

There are two players that come to mind in trading for LBJ

AD we know about.

A sign and trade for the Klaw. If he says I want out of Toronto then there is an opportunity for the Raptors to get
something for Kawhi that makes the Eastern favorites.

This allows the Lakers to get Kawhi without adding salary because Lebrons salary is outbound.

Then, The Lakers could add another Top guy and maybe still get AD in 2020.
iQon
Senior
Posts: 656
And1: 164
Joined: Jul 10, 2008

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#23 » by iQon » Wed Jun 5, 2019 8:56 pm

We're stooping to new lows devaluing LeBron on this board.

Regardless of your feelings towards him. Whether you've never liked him at all, or you're just bitter about year 1. The only offer I'm even considering for LeBron James AND that pick, is KD + Steph. Any other trade is dog food.
thebigbird
Starter
Posts: 2,042
And1: 4,164
Joined: Jul 11, 2018

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#24 » by thebigbird » Wed Jun 5, 2019 9:48 pm

NBAWestFan wrote:There are two players that come to mind in trading for LBJ

AD we know about.

A sign and trade for the Klaw. If he says I want out of Toronto then there is an opportunity for the Raptors to get
something for Kawhi that makes the Eastern favorites.

This allows the Lakers to get Kawhi without adding salary because Lebrons salary is outbound.

Then, The Lakers could add another Top guy and maybe still get AD in 2020.

Why wouldn't you just keep LeBron and then sign Kawhi? They have the space for him, and a LeBron/Kawhi duo is about as good as it can get. Sure you might sign another player in the offseason, but there's no one available that would make a better duo than LeBron + Kawhi.
TKainZero
Head Coach
Posts: 6,351
And1: 3,096
Joined: Jul 31, 2014
       

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#25 » by TKainZero » Wed Jun 5, 2019 10:37 pm

In all honesty, Lakers fans just don’t want lebron around
thebigbird
Starter
Posts: 2,042
And1: 4,164
Joined: Jul 11, 2018

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#26 » by thebigbird » Thu Jun 6, 2019 12:01 am

TKainZero wrote:In all honesty, Lakers fans just don’t want lebron around

Pretty much. I've never understood why. It's not like there's any kind of rivalry between LeBron and the lakers. They've never faced off in the playoffs. If he had signed with Boston I'd understood it, but there's no bad history between Bron and LA.
User avatar
Kilroy
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 16,476
And1: 7,171
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Location: The Motel 9 in Vegas
       

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#27 » by Kilroy » Thu Jun 6, 2019 12:14 am

No real mystery...

It's because LeBron has a history of remaking every team he plays on in his image... That may be fine for Miami and Cleveland, but Lakers fans are proud of their team's legacy and don't want it remade in the image of LeBron... They want players that elevate the Lakers, they don't want players that use the Lakers to elevate themselves... They had enough of that with Dwight and Nash...

Not saying LeBron is doing that here, but he and Klutch do exert all sorts of influence... And I think a lot of Laker fans would rather see LeBron gone than watch the team they grew up with start toadie-ing to them...
Adrian "ThaClippers" Wojnarowski
tv24lakers
Junior
Posts: 336
And1: 69
Joined: May 24, 2019
 

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#28 » by tv24lakers » Thu Jun 6, 2019 1:12 am

Kilroy wrote:It would only look stupid if you made a stupid trade and the team suffered... Don't over-estimate how concerned fans are with a team having a certain player... Laker fans are already turning on LeBron...
Also don't overestimate how much other players care what we do to LeBron... Players are concerned with themselves first.

And caring what other teams around the league think about the moves you make is a weak-sister stance... And one that ensures mediocrity.

"The Optics" is generally, some BS people bring out who secretly hope the Lakers don't get better...

The reason why we shouldn't trade LeBron at this point is much simpler than all that... We shouldn't trade him because pairing him with AD and potentially Kawhi or Kyrie, would make us way better than trading him for whoever we could get for him...
And because we probably wouldn't get a whole lot right now anyway, because those same teams in the "Optics" discussions wouldn't want to give up a whole lot for LeBron right now, thinking if we want to trade him, it's because we're desperate.
Which is why the OP decided to ridiculously include the #4 pick in a LeBron trade... Because we might have to include it in order to get anything of equal value to LeBron... Hence why trading LeBron right now would be like buying a Lamborghini, driving it around the block a couple times, and then trading it in...


My contention is not how this would play out to fans, because I am very well aware of how fickle fans can be, but the optics in the basketball community.

To put this in relatable terms, allow me to share my experience job hunting. Last year I decided to leave my office in search of an opportunity to further my career. With a good deal of experience and education on my resume, I knew that finding a new job would not be a challenge, and it afforded me the ability to be very selective in terms of my new employer. I scouted Employers, looking for a wide range of aspects including employee morale. Having worked for firms that treat their employees well, you can appreciate the value that it offers. In the same regard, if you mistreat your star the word is going to get around and players are less inclined to work with you. Or should they be more forgiving to past transgressions it may be way of a richer pay.

I wouldn't put much stock in the draw of playing with Lebron at this stage of his career. More so players may see the broader benefits the LA market has to offer, along the lines of playing for the Knicks in NY.
thebigbird
Starter
Posts: 2,042
And1: 4,164
Joined: Jul 11, 2018

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#29 » by thebigbird » Thu Jun 6, 2019 2:56 am

Kilroy wrote:No real mystery...

It's because LeBron has a history of remaking every team he plays on in his image... That may be fine for Miami and Cleveland, but Lakers fans are proud of their team's legacy and don't want it remade in the image of LeBron... They want players that elevate the Lakers, they don't want players that use the Lakers to elevate themselves... They had enough of that with Dwight and Nash...

Not saying LeBron is doing that here, but he and Klutch do exert all sorts of influence... And I think a lot of Laker fans would rather see LeBron gone than watch the team they grew up with start toadie-ing to them...

But it worked out well for Miami and Cleveland. Those two teams were remade in his image because they didn't have much history before LeBron, especially Cleveland. With the Lakers' history, if LeBron got them back to the finals it would be about how the Lakers have returned to glory. There's too much history there for the team to be remade in his image. He would just be adding to their history.

Maybe 34 year old LeBron can't lead a team to the finals anymore, but I'm still confident that a healthy LeBron can. If he does then I think the majority of lakers fans would get past their prior feelings and embrace him. But, I live on the east coast and don't have much interaction with lakers fans so I might be wrong on that.
stan francisco
Analyst
Posts: 3,044
And1: 811
Joined: Oct 20, 2015
 

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#30 » by stan francisco » Thu Jun 6, 2019 3:09 pm

thebigbird wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
LeBron_da_Don wrote:
This....but ya know, some folks think he's the biggest problem with the Lakers so this narrative will never end.


That easily happens when you backstab ALL of your team mates and drive their favorite young coach in the league out of town. You end up doing the same to their loyal fans. I was a Laker fan decades before LeBron joined. Not putting him above my team no matter how good.

I felt the same about Kobe but didn’t want to trade him out of the simple fear of opposing him. Not the same with an aging LBJ.

He’s operating from the standpoint that he’s bigger than the team. That’s why I want to ship him out, bring Leonard and Davis in instead.

You know, chemistry.

The chemistry was fine when LeBron returned. Ingram was playing really well, and Kuzma was solid too. It was the veterans who sucked at that time, and most of them luckily will not be back. And since your plan is to trade LeBron to get Kawhi, and then trade the young players for Davis, team chemistry issues won't even matter. It will be a whole different team than this year.

Did the players like Luke Walton? Sure, maybe. But his job wasn't to be their buddy, it was to be a good coach, and he wasn't one. The staff has been improved with the hiring of Vogel and the assistants. Not only was Luke not a good coach, but he also has the sexual misconduct allegation now too. That would have added to the front office dysfunction. It's good that he's gone and the Lakers have one less thing to worry about.

The only thing Kawhi has on LeBron is age, and even there Kawhi has a degenerative leg issue. Who knows how he will hold up over the next four years. A Kawhi/Davis pairing is only marginally better than a LeBron/Davis one. And then there is also the fact that Davis wants traded to the Lakers because he wants to play with LeBron.

Trade LeBron and you're still stuck with Jeanie Buss, Rob Pelinka and the Rambii. They're the problems with the organization, not LeBron. You don't have to like LeBron. You can hate him for all I care. The fact remains that he is the best, most stable part of the franchise right now. Your best shot at winning a ring over the next five years is keeping LeBron, signing a max free agent this offseason, and trading for Anthony Davis. Do that and you have as good a shot as anyone.


There are pictures of the chemistry after the backstabbing job. So, I disagree there.

On the part about AD wanting to play with LBJ. Well, if that’s the case, let’s keep LeBron. We’re in win now mode since we signed LBJ.

I watched Leonard limp to an easy 30 points yesterday. It’s worrisome how his left knee doesn’t seem able to explode on some nights. Still, LeBron is past his prime, has his highest trade value now. It will only go down from here.
2019-20
PG: Caruso / Bradley / Rondo / Norvell
SG: Green / Cook / KCP / Daniels
SF: James / **Iggy**/ THT
PF: Davis / Kuzma / Cacok / Dudley
C: McGee / Cousins / **Pau**

Starters: PG: LBJ / SG: DG / SF: KK / PF: AD / C: JMG
stan francisco
Analyst
Posts: 3,044
And1: 811
Joined: Oct 20, 2015
 

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#31 » by stan francisco » Thu Jun 6, 2019 3:19 pm

thebigbird wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
thebigbird wrote:The chemistry was fine when LeBron returned. Ingram was playing really well, and Kuzma was solid too. It was the veterans who sucked at that time, and most of them luckily will not be back. And since your plan is to trade LeBron to get Kawhi, and then trade the young players for Davis, team chemistry issues won't even matter. It will be a whole different team than this year.

Did the players like Luke Walton? Sure, maybe. But his job wasn't to be their buddy, it was to be a good coach, and he wasn't one. The staff has been improved with the hiring of Vogel and the assistants. Not only was Luke not a good coach, but he also has the sexual misconduct allegation now too. That would have added to the front office dysfunction. It's good that he's gone and the Lakers have one less thing to worry about.

The only thing Kawhi has on LeBron is age, and even there Kawhi has a degenerative leg issue. Who knows how he will hold up over the next four years. A Kawhi/Davis pairing is only marginally better than a LeBron/Davis one. And then there is also the fact that Davis wants traded to the Lakers because he wants to play with LeBron.

Trade LeBron and you're still stuck with Jeanie Buss, Rob Pelinka and the Rambii. They're the problems with the organization, not LeBron. You don't have to like LeBron. You can hate him for all I care. The fact remains that he is the best, most stable part of the franchise right now. Your best shot at winning a ring over the next five years is keeping LeBron, signing a max free agent this offseason, and trading for Anthony Davis. Do that and you have as good a shot as anyone.


Ok, so there are some serious misunderstandings in the first paragraph of yours. My plan is not to trade LeBron to get Kawhi. I want to trade LeBron for AD. That way, NOP actually agree to do the trade. That’s how we get AD. Then sign Leonard. We can forget Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart for AD because it’ll take too many unproven future star players and it won’t happen.

Ball, Leonard, Ingram, Kuzma, Davis.

Luke has us looking fantastic and beating GSW by 28(?) points at Christmas. If we want to pretend like LBJ and Rondo didn’t get injured in that game, and then Lonzo and then Kuzma, sure, Luke was a bad coach when half of his starters were out. Or it could’ve been injuries. The sexual misconduct is something I don’t know enough about to comment on.

I don’t want the Rambii making decisions either. I’d rather have LeBron do the GMingbthan any of them. But he’s not gonna get AD here unless he forces Oelinka to give up too much.

But why would NOP want to trade Davis for LeBron? They'd be getting rid of one superstar who doesn't want to be there for another one. They're not close to contention right now so they'd be better off loading up on assets for the future. And if you trade LeBron for Davis you still run the risk of striking out in free agency. Davis didn't have NOP in the playoffs before the trade request with a supporting cast that was arguably better than the Lakers' last year. Davis alone, even when completely healthy, isn't a lock to get a team to the playoffs.

My issues with Luke started before the Christmas game. His rotations drove me crazy, and he played Rondo way too much. The LeBron/Rondo pairing was really bad yet he seemed to use it all the time. Often times we'd see the Lakers close out third quarters with LeBron, Ingram, and Kuzma all on the bench, and they'd lose leads they had built up. As a coach you shouldn't have any lineups with your three best players all on the bench, especially not consistently. Maybe Luke would've done better if the front office had done a better job building the team. We'll see how he does in Sacramento.

When a team has LeBron they really have to go all in on the LeBron way. Give him control, put players around him that fit his play style, get a coach he likes, etc. I'm not saying that the LeBron way is the right way to do things or that fans should like it, but the middle of the road approach the Lakers have taken hasn't worked out. LeBron is a control freak, but that wasn't a secret. Every basketball fan out there knows it. If they didn't want to do things that way then I don't understand why they signed him.


Given the weird puzzle pieces, Luke had to experiment with rotations deep into the season. Then came the injuries to multiple starters at once...

I’m gonna make a prediction. We will all come to hate facing SAC as long as Luke is their coach.

Well, LeBron is now in ‘save face mode’. I trust that his vanity will make him do what's needed to help Pelinka put together a coherent roster. He’s now the Lakers’ MVP, GM, Prez, and King.

I still want to know what you guys think teams would trade for that package. What team could trade us the best return? Hypothetically speaking...

I think trading him will make us better. He’s #1 in jersey sales.
2019-20
PG: Caruso / Bradley / Rondo / Norvell
SG: Green / Cook / KCP / Daniels
SF: James / **Iggy**/ THT
PF: Davis / Kuzma / Cacok / Dudley
C: McGee / Cousins / **Pau**

Starters: PG: LBJ / SG: DG / SF: KK / PF: AD / C: JMG
NBAWestFan
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,353
And1: 109
Joined: Mar 20, 2006

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#32 » by NBAWestFan » Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:29 am

thebigbird wrote:
NBAWestFan wrote:There are two players that come to mind in trading for LBJ

AD we know about.

A sign and trade for the Klaw. If he says I want out of Toronto then there is an opportunity for the Raptors to get
something for Kawhi that makes the Eastern favorites.

This allows the Lakers to get Kawhi without adding salary because Lebrons salary is outbound.

Then, The Lakers could add another Top guy and maybe still get AD in 2020.

Why wouldn't you just keep LeBron and then sign Kawhi? They have the space for him, and a LeBron/Kawhi duo is about as good as it can get. Sure you might sign another player in the offseason, but there's no one available that would make a better duo than LeBron + Kawhi.


AD and Kawhi is better Chemistry with Lonzo, BI, Kuzma

LBJ and Kawhi runs the risk the Kawhi stays in Toronto or goes to the Clippers

The Finals have to end and then you have to wait and see if Kawhi would rather play with AD or LBJ.

I would do that becaue of the age and you still keep your youth.
stan francisco
Analyst
Posts: 3,044
And1: 811
Joined: Oct 20, 2015
 

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#33 » by stan francisco » Mon Jun 10, 2019 8:23 am

iQon wrote:We're stooping to new lows devaluing LeBron on this board.

Regardless of your feelings towards him. Whether you've never liked him at all, or you're just bitter about year 1. The only offer I'm even considering for LeBron James AND that pick, is KD + Steph. Any other trade is dog food.


Cool. An answer. Thanks. LBJ and 4th for KD and Curry. They won’t do that but I of course would.

I thought we could speculate here. Hypothetically speaking...
2019-20
PG: Caruso / Bradley / Rondo / Norvell
SG: Green / Cook / KCP / Daniels
SF: James / **Iggy**/ THT
PF: Davis / Kuzma / Cacok / Dudley
C: McGee / Cousins / **Pau**

Starters: PG: LBJ / SG: DG / SF: KK / PF: AD / C: JMG
User avatar
milesfides
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 16,011
And1: 1,445
Joined: Nov 09, 2004
Location: Brooklyn, NY

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#34 » by milesfides » Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:34 am

4th pick wouldn’t be included; if we trade Lebron, it’d be back to rebuilding for us. I’d trade Lebron to the clippers for Montrezl Harrell and Gilgeous-Alexander. Lebron gets to play for Doc and the Clippers can land another big free agent, like Jimmy Butler, or chase Kawhi.
“OH! Caruso parachutes in! You cannot stop him - you can only hope to contain him!” -Kevin Harlan, LAL-GSW 4/4/19
User avatar
Kilroy
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 16,476
And1: 7,171
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Location: The Motel 9 in Vegas
       

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#35 » by Kilroy » Tue Jun 11, 2019 3:08 am

This thread is on the cusp of being pointless... That said, yeah, if you're trading Lebron, you're rebuilding and either want a crap ton of picks, or you want players on the same career trajectory as Ingram and Ball...
So adding the 4th pick is doubly stupid... One, because it's overpaying for anybody you could get other than maybe Giannis... And two, because you need the pick if you're rebuilding.
Adrian "ThaClippers" Wojnarowski
stan francisco
Analyst
Posts: 3,044
And1: 811
Joined: Oct 20, 2015
 

Re: If we traded LBJ + 4th, whom for? 

Post#36 » by stan francisco » Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:17 am

Kilroy wrote:This thread is on the cusp of being pointless... That said, yeah, if you're trading Lebron, you're rebuilding and either want a crap ton of picks, or you want players on the same career trajectory as Ingram and Ball...
So adding the 4th pick is doubly stupid... One, because it's overpaying for anybody you could get other than maybe Giannis... And two, because you need the pick if you're rebuilding.


It’s pointless now when we won’t have to fight that hard to get AD.

No, let’s not rebuild. I was suggesting to trade him and win now. A three team deal should land us half a team of quality players on good contracts.

We’re not in rebuild mode if we trade LeBron.

Keep Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, Caruso. Add any star(s) to that by trading LBJ. Add a max FA. Win now. LBJ or not, the three kids are ready to hit the big time, be our young big three.

Jokic? Gobert? With whom? Nurkic and Leonard plus filler from Portland? We could get anyone for LBJ, just saying.

If we keep the 4th to develop (Hunter) another young, then we’re rebuilding. That’s why I’m willing to trade one great player for many good ones, something I’m normally opposed to doing.

It all comes down to how much you believe in our youth.
2019-20
PG: Caruso / Bradley / Rondo / Norvell
SG: Green / Cook / KCP / Daniels
SF: James / **Iggy**/ THT
PF: Davis / Kuzma / Cacok / Dudley
C: McGee / Cousins / **Pau**

Starters: PG: LBJ / SG: DG / SF: KK / PF: AD / C: JMG

Return to Los Angeles Lakers