Core 4 and 3 key subs

[zimpy27]

The teams with the best 25 lineups last season showed that the best teams had multiple lineups with a core group of 4 players that had 3 players sub in for the 5th spot.


GSW
Core 4: Curry, Klay, KD, Dray
3 key subs: Iggy, Cousins, Looney

Portland
Core 4: Lillard, CJ, Aminu, Nurkic
3 key subs: Layman, Turner, Harkless

Philly
Core 4: Simmons, Redick, Butler, Embiid
3 key subs: Harris, Ennis, Scott

Toronto
Core 4: Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Siakam
3 key subs: Ibaka, FVV, Gasol


Who will be the Lakers core 4 and there 3 key subs?

Do the Lakers need to consolidate some depth by trading for better quality players that boost their top 7?

[MAMBAEMD]

Core 4 : LBJ, AD, Kuz, Green
Subs: DMC, KCP, Dudley,

Unless we get Iggy, then he will be one of the key subs and probably KCP out

[zimpy27]

Core 4 : LBJ, AD, Kuz, Green
Subs: DMC, KCP, Dudley,

Well the missing piece in the core 4 looks like a PG, so you'd probably need at least 2 of the subs to be able to fill that, KCP can but I'd suggest Caruso over Dudley.

[zimpy27]

Right now I see a core 3 of Green, LBJ, AD

I'm hoping Caruso comes from nowhere and becomes the 4th guy. Maybe Iggy is the 4th guy if he comes.

I think 2 key subs will be Kuz and Cousins, not sure who the 3rd is, could be KCP, Caruso or Iggy.

[MAMBAEMD]

I think Kuz would be very good off the bench, but can also see him getting a lot of open looks with AD and LBJ on the floor.
I think he'll get a lot of minutes with the core 4 specially if he shows some improvement in his D

[Landsberger]

The teams with the best 25 lineups last season showed that the best teams had multiple lineups with a core group of 4 players that had 3 players sub in for the 5th spot.


GSW
Core 4: Curry, Klay, KD, Dray
3 key subs: Iggy, Cousins, Looney

Portland
Core 4: Lillard, CJ, Aminu, Nurkic
3 key subs: Layman, Turner, Harkless

Philly
Core 4: Simmons, Redick, Butler, Embiid
3 key subs: Harris, Ennis, Scott

Toronto
Core 4: Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Siakam
3 key subs: Ibaka, FVV, Gasol


Who will be the Lakers core 4 and there 3 key subs?

Do the Lakers need to consolidate some depth by trading for better quality players that boost their top 7?

I think this is interesting but have you tested this back at all? What about the Miami teams with the big 3.... I can barely remember anyone other than Wade, Bosh and Bron. The Bron Cleveland teams were not as strong 1-7 were they (again, I can't remember beyond JR and Korver what they had behind Love, Kyrie and Bron).

I think it all depends on matchups when you get to the playoffs. Coaching is huge as well. It's really the only time coaching can be a true differentiator these days IMHO.

I think our top 7 is pretty good.... especially if Cousins "gets it" and recovers another 20% of his best days. Kuzma is in a position to do what he does best and don't sleep on Rondo's ability to contribute as he has had success with Davis and Cousins.

Our key will be health and getting adequate ball handling when Bron is not on the court.

[zimpy27]

The teams with the best 25 lineups last season showed that the best teams had multiple lineups with a core group of 4 players that had 3 players sub in for the 5th spot.


GSW
Core 4: Curry, Klay, KD, Dray
3 key subs: Iggy, Cousins, Looney

Portland
Core 4: Lillard, CJ, Aminu, Nurkic
3 key subs: Layman, Turner, Harkless

Philly
Core 4: Simmons, Redick, Butler, Embiid
3 key subs: Harris, Ennis, Scott

Toronto
Core 4: Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Siakam
3 key subs: Ibaka, FVV, Gasol


Who will be the Lakers core 4 and there 3 key subs?

Do the Lakers need to consolidate some depth by trading for better quality players that boost their top 7?

I think this is interesting but have you tested this back at all? What about the Miami teams with the big 3.... I can barely remember anyone other than Wade, Bosh and Bron. The Bron Cleveland teams were not as strong 1-7 were they (again, I can't remember beyond JR and Korver what they had behind Love, Kyrie and Bron).

I think it all depends on matchups when you get to the playoffs. Coaching is huge as well. It's really the only time coaching can be a true differentiator these days IMHO.

I think our top 7 is pretty good.... especially if Cousins "gets it" and recovers another 20% of his best days. Kuzma is in a position to do what he does best and don't sleep on Rondo's ability to contribute as he has had success with Davis and Cousins.

Our key will be health and getting adequate ball handling when Bron is not on the court.

This was based on the top 25 lineup ratings of last year. The top teams I listed had 3 or more.

Typically it's been the GSW blueprint that other teams have adopted to great effect.

Doesn't hold back to Miami. They probably had big 3 and 4 subs.

A top 7 has largely been important in playoff teams.

[Landsberger]

The teams with the best 25 lineups last season showed that the best teams had multiple lineups with a core group of 4 players that had 3 players sub in for the 5th spot.


GSW
Core 4: Curry, Klay, KD, Dray
3 key subs: Iggy, Cousins, Looney

Portland
Core 4: Lillard, CJ, Aminu, Nurkic
3 key subs: Layman, Turner, Harkless

Philly
Core 4: Simmons, Redick, Butler, Embiid
3 key subs: Harris, Ennis, Scott

Toronto
Core 4: Lowry, Green, Kawhi, Siakam
3 key subs: Ibaka, FVV, Gasol


Who will be the Lakers core 4 and there 3 key subs?

Do the Lakers need to consolidate some depth by trading for better quality players that boost their top 7?

I think this is interesting but have you tested this back at all? What about the Miami teams with the big 3.... I can barely remember anyone other than Wade, Bosh and Bron. The Bron Cleveland teams were not as strong 1-7 were they (again, I can't remember beyond JR and Korver what they had behind Love, Kyrie and Bron).

I think it all depends on matchups when you get to the playoffs. Coaching is huge as well. It's really the only time coaching can be a true differentiator these days IMHO.

I think our top 7 is pretty good.... especially if Cousins "gets it" and recovers another 20% of his best days. Kuzma is in a position to do what he does best and don't sleep on Rondo's ability to contribute as he has had success with Davis and Cousins.

Our key will be health and getting adequate ball handling when Bron is not on the court.

This was based on the top 25 lineup ratings of last year. The top teams I listed had 3 or more.

Typically it's been the GSW blueprint that other teams have adopted to great effect.

Doesn't hold back to Miami. They probably had big 3 and 4 subs.

A top 7 has largely been important in playoff teams.

OK.... thanks. That helps.

The GS model has only worked for GS. Like most teams, if not all, that win multiple titles they have a purely unique talent set that is the core of why they are successful. Just because you have a top 7 doesn't mean you will have success. All those teams but Toronto finished without a title. Toronto, without Kawhi but say with Butler would still have a top 7.... would the outcome be the same? It seems like looking backward and looking for a common theme more than something that is predictive. Too many variables and not enough constants.

Since titles are what we will need to be considered a success I guess I'd want a little more data other than just a top 7 to go on. I'd say how the top 7 complement each other is more important than who they are in a lot of cases. For us, I think health will one of our top 7. If this team gels I think looking back after we win one we could then identify the top 7 but maybe not until then.

Who in our top 7 needs to be swapped out to make us stronger and realistically how would we do that in our current position?

[zimpy27]

I think this is interesting but have you tested this back at all? What about the Miami teams with the big 3.... I can barely remember anyone other than Wade, Bosh and Bron. The Bron Cleveland teams were not as strong 1-7 were they (again, I can't remember beyond JR and Korver what they had behind Love, Kyrie and Bron).

I think it all depends on matchups when you get to the playoffs. Coaching is huge as well. It's really the only time coaching can be a true differentiator these days IMHO.

I think our top 7 is pretty good.... especially if Cousins "gets it" and recovers another 20% of his best days. Kuzma is in a position to do what he does best and don't sleep on Rondo's ability to contribute as he has had success with Davis and Cousins.

Our key will be health and getting adequate ball handling when Bron is not on the court.

This was based on the top 25 lineup ratings of last year. The top teams I listed had 3 or more.

Typically it's been the GSW blueprint that other teams have adopted to great effect.

Doesn't hold back to Miami. They probably had big 3 and 4 subs.

A top 7 has largely been important in playoff teams.

OK.... thanks. That helps.

The GS model has only worked for GS. Like most teams, if not all, that win multiple titles they have a purely unique talent set that is the core of why they are successful. Just because you have a top 7 doesn't mean you will have success. All those teams but Toronto finished without a title. Toronto, without Kawhi but say with Butler would still have a top 7.... would the outcome be the same? It seems like looking backward and looking for a common theme more than something that is predictive. Too many variables and not enough constants.

Since titles are what we will need to be considered a success I guess I'd want a little more data other than just a top 7 to go on. I'd say how the top 7 complement each other is more important than who they are in a lot of cases. For us, I think health will one of our top 7. If this team gels I think looking back after we win one we could then identify the top 7 but maybe not until then.

Who in our top 7 needs to be swapped out to make us stronger and realistically how would we do that in our current position?

It may not be predictable but it's interesting that these were the top 25 lineups from the regular season.
And the top 4 teams were the 2 best teams in each conference when it came to the playoffs. Only exception may be Houston but their core lineup was similar with CP3, Harden, EG, PJ.

Top 7 in order is LeBron, AD, Green, Cousins, Kuzma, Caruso, KCP

Adding Iggy would pushout KCP.

The core is currently Green, LeBron, AD. Cousins and Kuzma are ideal subs as they can make AD a PF or C. I think the 4th core guy needs to have strong chemistry with Green, LeBron, AD. It would probably be a PG/SG.

The regular season will be an audition to see who out of Caruso, KCP, Rondo, Cook can take that role. Or whether they need to trade for someone.

[kblo247]

Top 7s in the playoffs have largely been crucial since Phil Jackson. Stretch 4s have largely been in place for title teams since you guessed it Phil Jackson.

People overlook the fact that he basically really only tried on BJ Armstrong and King in the playoffs with the first 3 peat. Then he did the same with Kerr and the stretch 4 who ushered in a Dirk prototype in Kukoc (would later repeat it with Horry and Odom)

Phil started Green here because of politics and played him because of the streak, same way he started Rice in year 1 despite not wanting him. But when rubber met the road he went to Fox and Horry over those two when he needed stops or big moments and he relied on Shaw and Fisher. The next year in the playoffs he largely relied on Kobe, Shaq, Fish, Fox, Horry, Horace, and Shaw. They depleted his team to all **** the next year so he made George a promotion to the rotation.

Even the Kobe and Pau teams largely saw His top 6 with the reliance of glimpses of Sasha, Shannon, Farmar, and Luke depending on a matchup.


If you’re looking at this team and saying who is the top 7. Then you are basically saying Lebron, AD, Cousins, Kuzma, Green, Rondo, and KCP when it’s playoff time.

What Kerr learned, he learned not from Pop, but from Phil.

The biggest trick Phil taught Kerr was keep everyone ready which is why Cook, Jerebko, Bell, and other guys can be called on. It’s the same way a Josh Powell, Mbenga, Slava, Kareem Rush, Buhler, Perdue, Wennington did the job for him when called on

[Landsberger]

It may not be predictable but it's interesting that these were the top 25 lineups from the regular season.
And the top 4 teams were the 2 best teams in each conference when it came to the playoffs. Only exception may be Houston but their core lineup was similar with CP3, Harden, EG, PJ.

Top 7 in order is LeBron, AD, Green, Cousins, Kuzma, Caruso, KCP

Adding Iggy would pushout KCP.

The core is currently Green, LeBron, AD. Cousins and Kuzma are ideal subs as they can make AD a PF or C. I think the 4th core guy needs to have strong chemistry with Green, LeBron, AD. It would probably be a PG/SG.

The regular season will be an audition to see who out of Caruso, KCP, Rondo, Cook can take that role. Or whether they need to trade for someone.

Yeah.... I've been looking at the past few years. I can see top 5's being a little more relevant but then again that's "back testing" when suppositions can tilt logic because you know the outcome.

For us to be successful our top 3 need health. Without that the bottom 4 are irrelevant. That's how top heavy our top 7 will be to our success.

To me it's all about fit.... both in reality and in statistical analysis. So often we just project stats forward without context and a given top 7 with the bottom 2 swapped between two teams means little if the fit isn't right.

I see a few good potential lineups for us. We could use another P&R PG I think to maximize a second unit with Cousins and Kuzma. Maybe Caruso is that guy.... maybe not.

[zimpy27]

It may not be predictable but it's interesting that these were the top 25 lineups from the regular season.
And the top 4 teams were the 2 best teams in each conference when it came to the playoffs. Only exception may be Houston but their core lineup was similar with CP3, Harden, EG, PJ.

Top 7 in order is LeBron, AD, Green, Cousins, Kuzma, Caruso, KCP

Adding Iggy would pushout KCP.

The core is currently Green, LeBron, AD. Cousins and Kuzma are ideal subs as they can make AD a PF or C. I think the 4th core guy needs to have strong chemistry with Green, LeBron, AD. It would probably be a PG/SG.

The regular season will be an audition to see who out of Caruso, KCP, Rondo, Cook can take that role. Or whether they need to trade for someone.

Yeah.... I've been looking at the past few years. I can see top 5's being a little more relevant but then again that's "back testing" when suppositions can tilt logic because you know the outcome.

For us to be successful our top 3 need health. Without that the bottom 4 are irrelevant. That's how top heavy our top 7 will be to our success.

To me it's all about fit.... both in reality and in statistical analysis. So often we just project stats forward without context and a given top 7 with the bottom 2 swapped between two teams means little if the fit isn't right.

I see a few good potential lineups for us. We could use another P&R PG I think to maximize a second unit with Cousins and Kuzma. Maybe Caruso is that guy.... maybe not.

Right, it all boils down to maximum scoring efficiency and quality defensive lineups that can shut down the opponent's offense.

This is my shot at the best fit lineups with minute spacing in RS:

12 minutes = Caruso, Green, LeBron, Kuzma, AD

12 minutes = Caruso, KCP, LeBron, Kuzma, Cousins

12 minutes = Rondo, KCP, Green, AD, McGee

6 minutes = Cook, Caruso, LeBron, AD, Cousins

6 minutes = Rondo, Daniels, Green, Cousins, McGee

[Landsberger]

It may not be predictable but it's interesting that these were the top 25 lineups from the regular season.
And the top 4 teams were the 2 best teams in each conference when it came to the playoffs. Only exception may be Houston but their core lineup was similar with CP3, Harden, EG, PJ.

Top 7 in order is LeBron, AD, Green, Cousins, Kuzma, Caruso, KCP

Adding Iggy would pushout KCP.

The core is currently Green, LeBron, AD. Cousins and Kuzma are ideal subs as they can make AD a PF or C. I think the 4th core guy needs to have strong chemistry with Green, LeBron, AD. It would probably be a PG/SG.

The regular season will be an audition to see who out of Caruso, KCP, Rondo, Cook can take that role. Or whether they need to trade for someone.

Yeah.... I've been looking at the past few years. I can see top 5's being a little more relevant but then again that's "back testing" when suppositions can tilt logic because you know the outcome.

For us to be successful our top 3 need health. Without that the bottom 4 are irrelevant. That's how top heavy our top 7 will be to our success.

To me it's all about fit.... both in reality and in statistical analysis. So often we just project stats forward without context and a given top 7 with the bottom 2 swapped between two teams means little if the fit isn't right.

I see a few good potential lineups for us. We could use another P&R PG I think to maximize a second unit with Cousins and Kuzma. Maybe Caruso is that guy.... maybe not.

Right, it all boils down to maximum scoring efficiency and quality defensive lineups that can shut down the opponent's offense.

This is my shot at the best fit lineups with minute spacing in RS:

12 minutes = Caruso, Green, LeBron, Kuzma, AD

12 minutes = Caruso, KCP, LeBron, Kuzma, Cousins

12 minutes = Rondo, KCP, Green, AD, McGee

6 minutes = Cook, Caruso, LeBron, AD, Cousins

6 minutes = Rondo, Daniels, Green, Cousins, McGee

Hope Caruso can play that part... such a small sample size and it wasn't like anyone was game planning us when he had his successes. That will change next year.

I think a 3 with Rondo, Kuzma and Cousins with another shooter is an intriguing line up. Cousins can pick and roll and pick and pop. Rondo is good at playing either. Kuzma can stretch the floor as well as play off that set on the backside moving w/o the ball. Against other team's second unit this could be a potent line up.

[zimpy27]

Yeah.... I've been looking at the past few years. I can see top 5's being a little more relevant but then again that's "back testing" when suppositions can tilt logic because you know the outcome.

For us to be successful our top 3 need health. Without that the bottom 4 are irrelevant. That's how top heavy our top 7 will be to our success.

To me it's all about fit.... both in reality and in statistical analysis. So often we just project stats forward without context and a given top 7 with the bottom 2 swapped between two teams means little if the fit isn't right.

I see a few good potential lineups for us. We could use another P&R PG I think to maximize a second unit with Cousins and Kuzma. Maybe Caruso is that guy.... maybe not.

Right, it all boils down to maximum scoring efficiency and quality defensive lineups that can shut down the opponent's offense.

This is my shot at the best fit lineups with minute spacing in RS:

12 minutes = Caruso, Green, LeBron, Kuzma, AD

12 minutes = Caruso, KCP, LeBron, Kuzma, Cousins

12 minutes = Rondo, KCP, Green, AD, McGee

6 minutes = Cook, Caruso, LeBron, AD, Cousins

6 minutes = Rondo, Daniels, Green, Cousins, McGee

Hope Caruso can play that part... such a small sample size and it wasn't like anyone was game planning us when he had his successes. That will change next year.

I think a 3 with Rondo, Kuzma and Cousins with another shooter is an intriguing line up. Cousins can pick and roll and pick and pop. Rondo is good at playing either. Kuzma can stretch the floor as well as play off that set on the backside moving w/o the ball. Against other team's second unit this could be a potent line up.

Good point, maybe revise to:

12 minutes = Caruso, Green, LeBron, Kuzma, AD
12 minutes = Rondo, KCP, Green, Kuzma, Cousins
12 minutes = Caruso, KCP, LeBron, AD, McGee
6 minutes = Cook, Daniels, LeBron, AD, Cousins
6 minutes = Rondo, Caruso, Green, Cousins, McGee

[SlimShady83]

Core 4 ... Mcgee, AD, Bron, Kuz

Core 3 ... Cousins, Green, Rondo

[stan francisco]

Core Four:
AD, LeBron, Kuzma, Green

Key Three:
Caruso, Cousins, McGee

Iggy inches out McGee if we can get him. Iggy, Caruso, Cousins becomes the Key Three. Or ‘Key Three’ become ‘Four More’. Any stats for that from the last two seasons?

OT: Grizzlies made moves over the weekend. I’d be surprised if we did NOT find out that Iggy is a Laker, like today.

Do it, Rob!