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How good defensively could this team be?

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How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#1 » by zimpy27 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 4:10 am

I added up the defensive RPM scores of last season for the starting lineup of teams this coming season.

Caruso, Green, LeBron, AD, Cousins actually has the highest score in the league.

Defensive stats love Cousins, both seasons on the Pelicans he had the best defensive RPM and defensive rating per 100 with AD coming second both years.

The starting unit could be the number 1 defensive lineup in the league but the bench defense is very bad. Caruso had the worst defensive RPM of the Lakers starters at 0.77. Only two bench players had an RPM above 0, Dudley with 0.74 and McGee with 0.16.

What ranking would you give the defense of this team?
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#2 » by SlimShady83 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:06 am

Don't know about stats. But I think a lot of people gonna be shocked by Kuzma this year both Defensive and shooting ;)
Apart from my mighty Lakers team I'm rooting for Houston, because I like Westbrook and think he deserves to win a chip - he is like Charles Barkley of this Era ... Great player but doesn't get to win :(
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#3 » by danfantastk32 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:49 am

Issue #1: Age tends to = injury. Hard to develop defensive cohesion when it's a revolving door.
Issue #2: Guys gotta play together a bit...get on same page.

That aside.....I think we will be fine defensively. Not great, but fine. Playoffs, I think we will turn it up a notch. I think we will be pretty good defensively come playoffs. Issue #1 overrides all of this, of course....but you get the idea.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#4 » by zimpy27 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:44 pm

SlimShady83 wrote:Don't know about stats. But I think a lot of people gonna be shocked by Kuzma this year both Defensive and shooting ;)

Kuzma could be better. I really like the idea of a Kuzma-Cousins pairing.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#5 » by zimpy27 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 5:48 pm

danfantastk32 wrote:Issue #1: Age tends to = injury. Hard to develop defensive cohesion when it's a revolving door.
Issue #2: Guys gotta play together a bit...get on same page.

That aside.....I think we will be fine defensively. Not great, but fine. Playoffs, I think we will turn it up a notch. I think we will be pretty good defensively come playoffs. Issue #1 overrides all of this, of course....but you get the idea.


Yes true, but the C rotation of AD, Cousins, McGee is at least a lot of size. That and the stability of having a couple decent perimeter defenders like Caruso, Bradley, KCP, Green on the court at all times. I think rotations can be made that are tight. It will have to come together in the playoffs though.
Ideally you have 3 defensive players on the court at all times.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#6 » by Kilroy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 6:19 pm

Hopefully Cousins is going to see that after the injuries he's had and the stage of his career, he needs to start focusing more on being a role player rather than a star, and sees playing elite D as part of that...
LeBron probably won't play defense this season, like he basically didn't last season... But AD can be a great defender, AB can be a great Defender, Green is a solid defender, Caruso is solid in certain situations, McGee is a solid rim protector, KCP can be a solid defender, Rondo can be pesky...

We have the tools, it all comes down to desire and execution... These guys have to realize that as great as AD/LeBron with Green, Cousins, Kuzma, etc are, they still aren't likely to be the team that outscores the league every night like GSW... They're going to have to be elite on both ends of the floor to dominate and ensure a championship...
If they do that, get solid coaching, and commit... I think we can be a top 3 Defense in the league... If we're top 5, I think we can win it all, because at top 5, I'm pretty sure we'll be top 3 in offense.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#7 » by SweetTouch » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:14 pm

Just need them to have a top 10 defense in the last 5 minutes of a game
Stop being so disrespectful.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#8 » by kblo247 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:42 pm

Kilroy wrote:Hopefully Cousins is going to see that after the injuries he's had and the stage of his career, he needs to start focusing more on being a role player rather than a star, and sees playing elite D as part of that...
LeBron probably won't play defense this season, like he basically didn't last season... But AD can be a great defender, AB can be a great Defender, Green is a solid defender, Caruso is solid in certain situations, McGee is a solid rim protector, KCP can be a solid defender, Rondo can be pesky...

We have the tools, it all comes down to desire and execution... These guys have to realize that as great as AD/LeBron with Green, Cousins, Kuzma, etc are, they still aren't likely to be the team that outscores the league every night like GSW... They're going to have to be elite on both ends of the floor to dominate and ensure a championship...
If they do that, get solid coaching, and commit... I think we can be a top 3 Defense in the league... If we're top 5, I think we can win it all, because at top 5, I'm pretty sure we'll be top 3 in offense.

This narrative that Cousins is the weak link comes from what?

Warriors were massively BETTER defensively with Cousins on court in the finals

Warriors With Cousins off court: 122.4 Drtg in 180 minutes
Warriors with Cousins On court: 108.6 DRtg in 108 minutes


I decided to check out Boogie's stats and advanced stats for last year.

16/8/4 in 25min ~ per 36, 23/11/5.

His TS% was just as good as it's ever been, WS/48 just as high as it's ever been. His advanced +- stats are still a plus across the board. And this was his first year coming back from his injury.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#9 » by Kilroy » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:51 pm

kblo247 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:Hopefully Cousins is going to see that after the injuries he's had and the stage of his career, he needs to start focusing more on being a role player rather than a star, and sees playing elite D as part of that...
LeBron probably won't play defense this season, like he basically didn't last season... But AD can be a great defender, AB can be a great Defender, Green is a solid defender, Caruso is solid in certain situations, McGee is a solid rim protector, KCP can be a solid defender, Rondo can be pesky...

We have the tools, it all comes down to desire and execution... These guys have to realize that as great as AD/LeBron with Green, Cousins, Kuzma, etc are, they still aren't likely to be the team that outscores the league every night like GSW... They're going to have to be elite on both ends of the floor to dominate and ensure a championship...
If they do that, get solid coaching, and commit... I think we can be a top 3 Defense in the league... If we're top 5, I think we can win it all, because at top 5, I'm pretty sure we'll be top 3 in offense.

This narrative that Cousins is the weak link comes from what?

Warriors were massively BETTER defensively with Cousins on court in the finals

Warriors With Cousins off court: 122.4 Drtg in 180 minutes
Warriors with Cousins On court: 108.6 DRtg in 108 minutes


I decided to check out Boogie's stats and advanced stats for last year.

16/8/4 in 25min ~ per 36, 23/11/5.

His TS% was just as good as it's ever been, WS/48 just as high as it's ever been. His advanced +- stats are still a plus across the board. And this was his first year coming back from his injury.


The stats were posted previously... Cousins has been pretty bad defending the post recently... He's a decent defender, but if we want him to be our starting 5, next to Davis, he'll have to better in the post on defense, otherwise he might have to backup McGee and work with Kuz on the second unit.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#10 » by Landsberger » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:09 am

Defense is not an individual part of the game. Individual stats for defense are puff IMHO. The scheme, the effort and the continuity are what's important. By all measures our team the last couple of years paid lip service to defense. There was no cohesive scheme in place and rarely players were in the same position within the defense for more than a few games.

Health will help us and a consistent rotation will as well. The new coach will help us quit a bit IMO. He understands that defense is a mindset over a skill set.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#11 » by zimpy27 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:13 am

Kilroy wrote:
kblo247 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:Hopefully Cousins is going to see that after the injuries he's had and the stage of his career, he needs to start focusing more on being a role player rather than a star, and sees playing elite D as part of that...
LeBron probably won't play defense this season, like he basically didn't last season... But AD can be a great defender, AB can be a great Defender, Green is a solid defender, Caruso is solid in certain situations, McGee is a solid rim protector, KCP can be a solid defender, Rondo can be pesky...

We have the tools, it all comes down to desire and execution... These guys have to realize that as great as AD/LeBron with Green, Cousins, Kuzma, etc are, they still aren't likely to be the team that outscores the league every night like GSW... They're going to have to be elite on both ends of the floor to dominate and ensure a championship...
If they do that, get solid coaching, and commit... I think we can be a top 3 Defense in the league... If we're top 5, I think we can win it all, because at top 5, I'm pretty sure we'll be top 3 in offense.

This narrative that Cousins is the weak link comes from what?

Warriors were massively BETTER defensively with Cousins on court in the finals

Warriors With Cousins off court: 122.4 Drtg in 180 minutes
Warriors with Cousins On court: 108.6 DRtg in 108 minutes


I decided to check out Boogie's stats and advanced stats for last year.

16/8/4 in 25min ~ per 36, 23/11/5.

His TS% was just as good as it's ever been, WS/48 just as high as it's ever been. His advanced +- stats are still a plus across the board. And this was his first year coming back from his injury.


The stats were posted previously... Cousins has been pretty bad defending the post recently... He's a decent defender, but if we want him to be our starting 5, next to Davis, he'll have to better in the post on defense, otherwise he might have to backup McGee and work with Kuz on the second unit.


I've convinced myself that the Kuzma-Cousins pairing will be great actually. I think Kuzma will work really well off of Cousins.

A bench of Caruso-Bradley-KCP-Kuzma-Cousins is a nice balance of passing/shooting/defense. Vogel is going to earn his money building a system for lineups without LeBron.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#12 » by iamworthy » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:33 am

SlimShady83 wrote:Don't know about stats. But I think a lot of people gonna be shocked by Kuzma this year both Defensive and shooting ;)


That's one way to put it.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#13 » by kblo247 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:40 am

Kilroy wrote:
kblo247 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:Hopefully Cousins is going to see that after the injuries he's had and the stage of his career, he needs to start focusing more on being a role player rather than a star, and sees playing elite D as part of that...
LeBron probably won't play defense this season, like he basically didn't last season... But AD can be a great defender, AB can be a great Defender, Green is a solid defender, Caruso is solid in certain situations, McGee is a solid rim protector, KCP can be a solid defender, Rondo can be pesky...

We have the tools, it all comes down to desire and execution... These guys have to realize that as great as AD/LeBron with Green, Cousins, Kuzma, etc are, they still aren't likely to be the team that outscores the league every night like GSW... They're going to have to be elite on both ends of the floor to dominate and ensure a championship...
If they do that, get solid coaching, and commit... I think we can be a top 3 Defense in the league... If we're top 5, I think we can win it all, because at top 5, I'm pretty sure we'll be top 3 in offense.

This narrative that Cousins is the weak link comes from what?

Warriors were massively BETTER defensively with Cousins on court in the finals

Warriors With Cousins off court: 122.4 Drtg in 180 minutes
Warriors with Cousins On court: 108.6 DRtg in 108 minutes


I decided to check out Boogie's stats and advanced stats for last year.

16/8/4 in 25min ~ per 36, 23/11/5.

His TS% was just as good as it's ever been, WS/48 just as high as it's ever been. His advanced +- stats are still a plus across the board. And this was his first year coming back from his injury.


The stats were posted previously... Cousins has been pretty bad defending the post recently... He's a decent defender, but if we want him to be our starting 5, next to Davis, he'll have to better in the post on defense, otherwise he might have to backup McGee and work with Kuz on the second unit.

DID you watch Cousins punk Jokic to end the year before the playoffs when he was getting his feet under him before tearing his quad? He was rounding into form all around at the end of the year before the playoffs.

They could let Kuzma and Cousins come off the bench together with Rondo if they chose and utilize everyone to the best of their abilities. Cousins should be the secondary facilitator with his passing and ball handling no matter which unit he’s in because he can pretty much play Vlade Divac and hit everyone in the right stride.

Rondo can control the tempo and pace but Boogie should be the guy getting fed to post up, make drop offs, shoot the ball, and get put backs. Kuz cuts off him and does his thing as the true lone perimeter threat. Then you just put KCP next to them and whoever of Cook, Dudley, Caruso.

Vogel created a scheme for George, Lance, and Hibbert that worked on defense. He can do the same here.

Idc who starts but one could argue you get the most out of Javale if you let him start each half and go all out. Then let Cousins come in and dominate
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#14 » by kblo247 » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:45 am

zimpy27 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
kblo247 wrote:This narrative that Cousins is the weak link comes from what?

Warriors were massively BETTER defensively with Cousins on court in the finals

Warriors With Cousins off court: 122.4 Drtg in 180 minutes
Warriors with Cousins On court: 108.6 DRtg in 108 minutes


I decided to check out Boogie's stats and advanced stats for last year.

16/8/4 in 25min ~ per 36, 23/11/5.

His TS% was just as good as it's ever been, WS/48 just as high as it's ever been. His advanced +- stats are still a plus across the board. And this was his first year coming back from his injury.


The stats were posted previously... Cousins has been pretty bad defending the post recently... He's a decent defender, but if we want him to be our starting 5, next to Davis, he'll have to better in the post on defense, otherwise he might have to backup McGee and work with Kuz on the second unit.


I've convinced myself that the Kuzma-Cousins pairing will be great actually. I think Kuzma will work really well off of Cousins.

A bench of Caruso-Bradley-KCP-Kuzma-Cousins is a nice balance of passing/shooting/defense. Vogel is going to earn his money building a system for lineups without LeBron.

Honestly they should sit AD and Bron a handful of games together and just let Kuzma and Cousins start and eat

Bradley Green Kuzma Cousins McGee
Rondo Caruso Cook KCP Dudley
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#15 » by lazybatman » Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:23 am

kblo247 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
kblo247 wrote:This narrative that Cousins is the weak link comes from what?

Warriors were massively BETTER defensively with Cousins on court in the finals

Warriors With Cousins off court: 122.4 Drtg in 180 minutes
Warriors with Cousins On court: 108.6 DRtg in 108 minutes


I decided to check out Boogie's stats and advanced stats for last year.

16/8/4 in 25min ~ per 36, 23/11/5.

His TS% was just as good as it's ever been, WS/48 just as high as it's ever been. His advanced +- stats are still a plus across the board. And this was his first year coming back from his injury.


The stats were posted previously... Cousins has been pretty bad defending the post recently... He's a decent defender, but if we want him to be our starting 5, next to Davis, he'll have to better in the post on defense, otherwise he might have to backup McGee and work with Kuz on the second unit.

DID you watch Cousins punk Jokic to end the year before the playoffs when he was getting his feet under him before tearing his quad? He was rounding into form all around at the end of the year before the playoffs.

They could let Kuzma and Cousins come off the bench together with Rondo if they chose and utilize everyone to the best of their abilities. Cousins should be the secondary facilitator with his passing and ball handling no matter which unit he’s in because he can pretty much play Vlade Divac and hit everyone in the right stride.

Rondo can control the tempo and pace but Boogie should be the guy getting fed to post up, make drop offs, shoot the ball, and get put backs. Kuz cuts off him and does his thing as the true lone perimeter threat. Then you just put KCP next to them and whoever of Cook, Dudley, Caruso.

Vogel created a scheme for George, Lance, and Hibbert that worked on defense. He can do the same here.

Idc who starts but one could argue you get the most out of Javale if you let him start each half and go all out. Then let Cousins come in and dominate


I enjoyed reading that. Hope it gets to Vogel's ear. Very interesting and well though out bro!
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#16 » by TheHartBreakKid » Tue Jul 16, 2019 5:23 am

They could be very, very good defensively, if the coaching staff pushes defense first and Lebron/AD buy into it. I don't expect lebron to play lock down D, but him literally trying will set the tone for the whole team. The dude is amazing, and I can't blame him for taking last year off, but his effort on D last year was pathetic. We need Lebron and AD to set the tone, and we need the coaching staff to make sure that happens. I don't know if it'll happen, but with Vogel, AD, and hopefully a more dedicated Lebron, I think it's more realistic to think that it'll happen compared to last year. If this defensive culture is focused on by the stars and the coaching staff, we have very capable players on that end.


It's funny....all three of Lebron's rings were won by great defensive teams. Those heat teams got after it, and the numbers prove it. The Cavs weren't known for their defense but they played some amazing D in the finals.


We have the personnel to do it; we just need it to be a focus, from day one.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#17 » by lazybatman » Tue Jul 16, 2019 2:15 pm

I'd rather we reach the money rounds of the playoffs with full health and bad habits on D than otherwise.

Seeing how dependent our fortunes are to the health of this squad, I'm kinda hoping the coaching staff doesn't go too crazy about D in at least the regular season. Let Boogie & Lebron heal well enough with lots of load management. Bron's said a million times, it doesn't matter if he plays 32 or 42 minutes if hes active. What matters to his body is if he's playing or not cos of his extensive pregame prep routine.

Good system defense for 44 mins, and perhaps an extra push in the last 6 to coast through to the money rounds in the playoffs. I think we can make up for it with the extra rebounds we should get with this squad.

We could have 2 elite defenders - AD & Bradley. Playoff Bron, Green, KCP, Cook, Boogie & McGee are all willing defenders. So we should really be okay, as long as enough work is put in the film room.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#18 » by stan francisco » Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:33 pm

Minutes at point guard, considering defense only:

Caruso 24, Bradley 16, Cook 4, Rondo 4.

Not sure of Bradley’s current form but if he wants to take minutes away from Caruso he’ll have to earn them the hard way. On both ends.


Edit: how good can this team be defensively?

As good as LeBron wants us to be. His defensive play will dictate how well we fare.

He’s a beast on that end, too. When he wants to be.
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso24, Bradley4, Rondo3, Norvell1
SG: Green24, Pope12, Bradley8, Daniels3, Cook1
SF: Kuzma24, James16, THT6, Caroline2
PF: Davis32, Kuzma12, Dudley3, Cacok1
C: Cousins24, McGee20, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#19 » by dAdo dA dEvil » Fri Jul 19, 2019 12:38 am

I think we'll be fine defensively. Rondo / Green / Bradley / Caruso / Dudley / AD / McGee are good defenders. Put 3 - 4 players from that group at the same time inside the court then I can say that we gonna be just fine defensively.
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Re: How good defensively could this team be? 

Post#20 » by ShowtimeFan » Sat Jul 27, 2019 6:29 am

I do not believe the new Coach and his staff will keep the Matador-defense Luke ran last year, so yeah, it should MUCH better...

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