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Rondo's 2-man +/- with current roster

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Re: Rondo's 2-man +/- with current roster 

Post#41 » by Pythagoras » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:02 am

stan francisco wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
Stats and no stats I think he shouldn't play Next to Lebron, bec he can't shoot and he loves to dominate the ball. Haberstroh had an advanced stat that they had a combined -54.
Per basketball ref, 602 mins, -3.7 pts the ONLY combo with Lebron with the ONLY negative stat aside from Bullock who played 360 mins with a -1.7.
Btw Caruso has a pretty high +11.2 next to Lebron but just for 146 minutes https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/carusal01/lineups/2019
however Rondo had a + 3.5 pts regular and +3.3 playoffs next to AD,
His highest was playing for a good shooter like Mirotic, so if Dudley or Kuz hit those 3's from the bench, then I think he would be effective with the 2nd unit.


I mean, part of my problem with Rondo, is how many minutes he’s going to play. He had a net negative rating with 3 of our 5 best players the last season he was on the floor with them: Lebron, Kuzma, and Cousins. His overall numbers have been negative in each season for five consecutive seasons. In those seasons, he’s had a multitude of opportunities with a multitude of different casts and hasn’t been able to have a positive impact. He most certainly doesn’t deserve 20 min/night but how many can he realistically get? In order to get him even 15 minutes a night, he’s going to have to push a more deserving player out of the rotation: KCP, Bradley, Cook, Daniels, or Caruso. People are enamored with his name and ignoring his consistently negative impact to justify him getting minutes.


Caruso 24 minutes
Bradley 12 minutes
Cook 6 minutes
Rondo 6 minutes

Rondo’s strategic veteran know-how is worth his paycheck even if he doesn’t play a minute.


I’m good with this. Rondo as a glorified “player coach” who’s barely on the floor is fine with me.
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Re: Rondo's 2-man +/- with current roster 

Post#42 » by stan francisco » Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:08 am

Pythagoras wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
I mean, part of my problem with Rondo, is how many minutes he’s going to play. He had a net negative rating with 3 of our 5 best players the last season he was on the floor with them: Lebron, Kuzma, and Cousins. His overall numbers have been negative in each season for five consecutive seasons. In those seasons, he’s had a multitude of opportunities with a multitude of different casts and hasn’t been able to have a positive impact. He most certainly doesn’t deserve 20 min/night but how many can he realistically get? In order to get him even 15 minutes a night, he’s going to have to push a more deserving player out of the rotation: KCP, Bradley, Cook, Daniels, or Caruso. People are enamored with his name and ignoring his consistently negative impact to justify him getting minutes.


Caruso 24 minutes
Bradley 12 minutes
Cook 6 minutes
Rondo 6 minutes

Rondo’s strategic veteran know-how is worth his paycheck even if he doesn’t play a minute.


I’m good with this. Rondo as a glorified “player coach” who’s barely on the floor is fine with me.


It’s actually a HUGE value to have him as an extra coach on the bench. Talk about a great teacher to have for Caruso. I used to hate him, then he became a Laker.
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso24, Bradley4, Rondo3, Norvell1
SG: Green24, Pope12, Bradley8, Daniels3, Cook1
SF: Kuzma24, James16, THT6, Caroline2
PF: Davis32, Kuzma12, Dudley3, Cacok1
C: Cousins24, McGee20, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: Rondo's 2-man +/- with current roster 

Post#43 » by hoosierdaddy34 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:43 pm

Rondo should never touch the floor. Luckily of all the guards the Lakers brought in, Rondo was paid the least. I don’t think they are very invested in him, he’s basically a glorified assistant.
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Re: Rondo's 2-man +/- with current roster 

Post#44 » by bb22 » Sun Jul 21, 2019 11:14 pm

Seems like he played a large part in recruiting Boogie, so he's worth the min for now. They can trade him or release him if things go sour.
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Re: Rondo's 2-man +/- with current roster 

Post#45 » by tugs » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:15 am

Classic case of Eye Test vs. Advanced Stats

Will wait for a couple of games.
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Re: Rondo's 2-man +/- with current roster 

Post#46 » by tamaraw08 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 3:24 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:He played 6 games in November and 3 games in December.

But interestingly all of them were off the bench. Whereas most of the rest of the year he started. Maybe that's the link to his success.


Stats and no stats I think he shouldn't play Next to Lebron, bec he can't shoot and he loves to dominate the ball. Haberstroh had an advanced stat that they had a combined -54.
Per basketball ref, 602 mins, -3.7 pts the ONLY combo with Lebron with the ONLY negative stat aside from Bullock who played 360 mins with a -1.7.
Btw Caruso has a pretty high +11.2 next to Lebron but just for 146 minutes https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/carusal01/lineups/2019
however Rondo had a + 3.5 pts regular and +3.3 playoffs next to AD,
His highest was playing for a good shooter like Mirotic, so if Dudley or Kuz hit those 3's from the bench, then I think he would be effective with the 2nd unit.


I mean, part of my problem with Rondo, is how many minutes he’s going to play. He had a net negative rating with 3 of our 5 best players the last season he was on the floor with them: Lebron, Kuzma, and Cousins. His overall numbers have been negative in each season for five consecutive seasons. In those seasons, he’s had a multitude of opportunities with a multitude of different casts and hasn’t been able to have a positive impact. He most certainly doesn’t deserve 20 min/night but how many can he realistically get? In order to get him even 15 minutes a night, he’s going to have to push a more deserving player out of the rotation: KCP, Bradley, Cook, Daniels, or Caruso. People are enamored with his name and ignoring his consistently negative impact to justify him getting minutes.

I think we agree on certain things like Rondo not playing heavy minutes and esp playing next to lebron but we differ on some things like I am not ready to simply just put him in the doghouse right now when the training camp hasn't even started yet. The other poster also brought up a valid point in terms of not having enough LEGIT PGs in the team. Cook, Daniels, Bradley have not proven to be good court generals who reads defenses, dictate tempo and put everyone in their proper positions etc.
Unlike you, I just can't ignore what he did in NO esp the playoffs where he ave 13 assists and 7.5 rebs helping his team sweep the favored Blazers. Let me say again I didn't want him back but they got AD and DMC, I felt, he needed another shot.
Another thing is, I maybe in the minority here but I can't pencil in KCP being in the core of this team yet bec I can't find a specific role for him. He can't shoot and is an over rated defender IMO.
1. Shooting. Lebron and Ball goes down Christmas, When the Lakers NEEDED HIM MOST, he shoots a spectacular 31% FOR Jan AND FEB. :oops: 2 years ago, Before Lebron got here, Lakers lost a bunch of players bec of injuries too in December and he shot a whopping 29%. He is great though as soon as the Lakers get eliminated, improving his shot like 3-5% better. Rajon Rondo actually shoot better than him from the 3pt line overall as he only shot 34.7% for the year.
2. Defense. He is TIED for 17th in DRTG for the team, only Mikhailuk and Machado were WORST in the 22 man recorded roster. DRTG may be misleading?
he ranked 18th in DBPM with a -1.2, still not convinced.
ok, ESPN DRPM, He ranked 95th worst among SGs out of 107 recorded players playing that position.
3. Rondo might take his minutes? KCP was never a PG, he averaged 1.3 assists ranked 10TH in his team, career ave of 1.6 APG, RANKED 11TH in USG% But hey, he does great in training camp, then ok play him more minutes but I would also put him in a short leash based on what happened last 2 seasons IMO.
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Re: Rondo's 2-man +/- with current roster 

Post#47 » by evilpimp972 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 7:53 pm

tugs wrote:Classic case of Eye Test vs. Advanced Stats

Will wait for a couple of games.

Eye test tells me that he is the worst fit with Lebron :wink:
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Re: Rondo's 2-man +/- with current roster 

Post#48 » by Sedale Threatt » Mon Jul 22, 2019 9:00 pm

It gets worse. 538 just came up with some new defensive formula -- who knows if it's any good, but some of the names near the top of the list indicate it's got some value -- and, well, check out where Rondo is ranked over the totality of the past five seasons. If you're having a tough time finding him, just keep scrolling.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-better-way-to-evaluate-nba-defense/
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Re: Rondo's 2-man +/- with current roster 

Post#49 » by zimpy27 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:20 am

Sedale Threatt wrote:It gets worse. 538 just came up with some new defensive formula -- who knows if it's any good, but some of the names near the top of the list indicate it's got some value -- and, well, check out where Rondo is ranked over the totality of the past five seasons. If you're having a tough time finding him, just keep scrolling.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-better-way-to-evaluate-nba-defense/



Wow, worst defender in the league over the past 5 seasons. 20th worst last season.

Well this explains the poor net-ratings with all these players and why this hasn't been more obvious. He must be abysmal on defense but satisfactory on offense.

Cook, KCP look awful by that stat too..
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Re: Rondo's 2-man +/- with current roster 

Post#50 » by Sedale Threatt » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:54 am

zimpy27 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:It gets worse. 538 just came up with some new defensive formula -- who knows if it's any good, but some of the names near the top of the list indicate it's got some value -- and, well, check out where Rondo is ranked over the totality of the past five seasons. If you're having a tough time finding him, just keep scrolling.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-better-way-to-evaluate-nba-defense/


Wow, worst defender in the league over the past 5 seasons. 20th worst last season.

Well this explains the poor net-ratings with all these players and why this hasn't been more obvious. He must be abysmal on defense but satisfactory on offense.

Cook, KCP look awful by that stat too..


All of which jives with my eye test. How KCP got a rep as a defender is completely beyond me.
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