ImageImageImageImageImage

will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player?

Moderators: Danny Darko, TyCobb, Kilroy

Landsberger
Head Coach
Posts: 7,253
And1: 1,517
Joined: Jul 04, 2016
 

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#141 » by Landsberger » Sat Nov 16, 2019 5:21 pm

What is "All star potential"? Kuzma has surpassed James Worthy's "stats" for the first 2+ years of his career. He's in the HOF. The difference? Championships. Worthy had similar glaring holes in his game yet his timing was fantastic to be the 3rd wheel between 2 all time greats. Not saying Kuzma is heading in that direction at all but circumstance often makes one more popular and thus gets you invited to popularity contests like All Star Games and the HOF. I can think of a dozen players who have more impactful careers than Worthy yet they still are on the outside of the HOF. Nothing against Worthy... he was exactly what we needed when we needed it but more about situations.
Kilroy
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 17,186
And1: 7,561
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Location: The Motel 9 in Vegas
       

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#142 » by Kilroy » Sat Nov 16, 2019 8:35 pm

Landsberger wrote:What is "All star potential"? Kuzma has surpassed James Worthy's "stats" for the first 2+ years of his career. He's in the HOF. The difference? Championships. Worthy had similar glaring holes in his game yet his timing was fantastic to be the 3rd wheel between 2 all time greats. Not saying Kuzma is heading in that direction at all but circumstance often makes one more popular and thus gets you invited to popularity contests like All Star Games and the HOF. I can think of a dozen players who have more impactful careers than Worthy yet they still are on the outside of the HOF. Nothing against Worthy... he was exactly what we needed when we needed it but more about situations.


:lol: :lol: Cmon now... That whole post was against Worthy...

I get that you want Kuzma to be a star, but saying Worthy was opportunistic and lucky is a huge insult to Worthy. He was an all-star-quality player who accepted a role he was significantly better than, to play in LA and compete for rings.
He could have been a primary star on a decent team, but stuck with LA to be a multiple champion.

Worthy willed us to a few of those championships when our big 2 couldn't get it done. More impactful? I don't know how you quantify that... But if you came up with a handful of players, who've had 'more impactful' careers and not gotten the love Worthy did, I'd be surprised. During his career, Worthy was largely an afterthought... It wasn't until showtime was long gone that people started to appreciate him. He was under-rated as hell playing with Magic and Kareem. He clearly deserves the HOF...

Kuzma has a long way to go to even have his name mentioned in the same sentence as Worthy... To do so now is laughable.
Landsberger
Head Coach
Posts: 7,253
And1: 1,517
Joined: Jul 04, 2016
 

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#143 » by Landsberger » Sat Nov 16, 2019 9:52 pm

Kilroy wrote:
Landsberger wrote:What is "All star potential"? Kuzma has surpassed James Worthy's "stats" for the first 2+ years of his career. He's in the HOF. The difference? Championships. Worthy had similar glaring holes in his game yet his timing was fantastic to be the 3rd wheel between 2 all time greats. Not saying Kuzma is heading in that direction at all but circumstance often makes one more popular and thus gets you invited to popularity contests like All Star Games and the HOF. I can think of a dozen players who have more impactful careers than Worthy yet they still are on the outside of the HOF. Nothing against Worthy... he was exactly what we needed when we needed it but more about situations.


:lol: :lol: Cmon now... That whole post was against Worthy...

I get that you want Kuzma to be a star, but saying Worthy was opportunistic and lucky is a huge insult to Worthy. He was an all-star-quality player who accepted a role he was significantly better than, to play in LA and compete for rings.
He could have been a primary star on a decent team, but stuck with LA to be a multiple champion.

Worthy willed us to a few of those championships when our big 2 couldn't get it done. More impactful? I don't know how you quantify that... But if you came up with a handful of players, who've had 'more impactful' careers and not gotten the love Worthy did, I'd be surprised. During his career, Worthy was largely an afterthought... It wasn't until showtime was long gone that people started to appreciate him. He was under-rated as hell playing with Magic and Kareem. He clearly deserves the HOF...

Kuzma has a long way to go to even have his name mentioned in the same sentence as Worthy... To do so now is laughable.


You make a lot of assumptions about Worthy... could of... should of.... etc... and you made my point about stats to boot.

For me Worthy was the 3rd of the forwards I wanted in that draft. So now you know where I'm starting from on him. My point about Kuzma is that guys make all star teams as much because of who they play with as they do about what they do.

OK.. Worthy's HOF'er... Is he one of the 50 greatest of all time? He was given that moniker in his 8th year over a lot of better players. Fact is that because he was a Laker in the era of the 3 team league he got exposure that a lot of other players never hoped to. Kuzma is getting the same.

As for what I want for Kuzma.... I want him to be our 3rd scorer and lead the bench in a championship season. If you've followed anything I've written over the my time here you'd know I couldn't care less about All Stars or the HOF for that matter. That's popularity contest stuff. I just hope he doesn't end up hiring 2 hookers in Houston some day....

If you want a list of guys who were every bit as impactful as Worthy....Off the top of my head

Walter Davis
Chris Webber
Kevin Johnson
Tim Hardaway
Reggie Theus
Rakkasan
Freshman
Posts: 96
And1: 52
Joined: Jan 29, 2019
       

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#144 » by Rakkasan » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:33 pm

Kilroy wrote:
Landsberger wrote:What is "All star potential"? Kuzma has surpassed James Worthy's "stats" for the first 2+ years of his career. He's in the HOF. The difference? Championships. Worthy had similar glaring holes in his game yet his timing was fantastic to be the 3rd wheel between 2 all time greats. Not saying Kuzma is heading in that direction at all but circumstance often makes one more popular and thus gets you invited to popularity contests like All Star Games and the HOF. I can think of a dozen players who have more impactful careers than Worthy yet they still are on the outside of the HOF. Nothing against Worthy... he was exactly what we needed when we needed it but more about situations.


:lol: :lol: Cmon now... That whole post was against Worthy...

I get that you want Kuzma to be a star, but saying Worthy was opportunistic and lucky is a huge insult to Worthy. He was an all-star-quality player who accepted a role he was significantly better than, to play in LA and compete for rings.
He could have been a primary star on a decent team, but stuck with LA to be a multiple champion.

Worthy willed us to a few of those championships when our big 2 couldn't get it done. More impactful? I don't know how you quantify that... But if you came up with a handful of players, who've had 'more impactful' careers and not gotten the love Worthy did, I'd be surprised. During his career, Worthy was largely an afterthought... It wasn't until showtime was long gone that people started to appreciate him. He was under-rated as hell playing with Magic and Kareem. He clearly deserves the HOF...

Kuzma has a long way to go to even have his name mentioned in the same sentence as Worthy... To do so now is laughable.


Big Game James! Enough said!
Rakkasan
Freshman
Posts: 96
And1: 52
Joined: Jan 29, 2019
       

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#145 » by Rakkasan » Sun Nov 17, 2019 10:38 pm

Landsberger wrote:What is "All star potential"? Kuzma has surpassed James Worthy's "stats" for the first 2+ years of his career. He's in the HOF. The difference? Championships. Worthy had similar glaring holes in his game yet his timing was fantastic to be the 3rd wheel between 2 all time greats. Not saying Kuzma is heading in that direction at all but circumstance often makes one more popular and thus gets you invited to popularity contests like All Star Games and the HOF. I can think of a dozen players who have more impactful careers than Worthy yet they still are on the outside of the HOF. Nothing against Worthy... he was exactly what we needed when we needed it but more about situations.


Worthy was known as "Big Game James" I would love to know who are the dozens of players who were more impactful than Worthy during his Lakers run.
Pythagoras
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,850
And1: 1,311
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Location: KC, Mo
     

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#146 » by Pythagoras » Sun Nov 17, 2019 11:20 pm

Man, and I thought people were overrating Kuzma when they were comparing him to recent top 5 picks. Now we’re comparing him to HOFers...
Numbers rule the universe.
NippySudz
Junior
Posts: 332
And1: 121
Joined: Jul 08, 2019

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#147 » by NippySudz » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:01 am

zimpy27 wrote:All Star talent because of his scoring, probably could be one in 3 years when he's in prime.
He's going to be 25. In three years, kuzma is going to be 28. I think he went to college all four yrs which is why it's so late.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 13,163
And1: 12,488
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#148 » by zimpy27 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:33 am

NippySudz wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:All Star talent because of his scoring, probably could be one in 3 years when he's in prime.
He's going to be 25. In three years, kuzma is going to be 28. I think he went to college all four yrs which is why it's so late.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk

Yes 28 is the prime I mean.
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
NippySudz
Junior
Posts: 332
And1: 121
Joined: Jul 08, 2019

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#149 » by NippySudz » Mon Nov 18, 2019 6:39 am

zimpy27 wrote:
NippySudz wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:All Star talent because of his scoring, probably could be one in 3 years when he's in prime.
He's going to be 25. In three years, kuzma is going to be 28. I think he went to college all four yrs which is why it's so late.

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk

Yes 28 is the prime I mean.
Oh ok. My mistake

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk
User avatar
EArl
RealGM
Posts: 46,035
And1: 10,096
Joined: Mar 14, 2012
Location: Santa Cruz
   

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#150 » by EArl » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:19 am

Comparing to Worthy? Come on that's embarrassing. I like Kuzma a lot, but wow.
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before;
nzahir
Veteran
Posts: 2,923
And1: 1,189
Joined: Nov 04, 2017

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#151 » by nzahir » Mon Nov 18, 2019 7:33 am

LMFAO comparing basic stats (also ignoring efficiency, defense, passing) in different eras w/o accounting for shooting back then, pace, etc

Worthy???
LAKESHOW
RealGM
Posts: 11,119
And1: 1,342
Joined: Mar 14, 2002
Location: HOME OF THE 16 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#152 » by LAKESHOW » Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:26 pm

I like Kuz, i really...really like Kuz. James worthy was straight Attack Dawg! When he was at north carolina, and then when he came here, Worthy was fearless. Nothing against Kuz, but worthy was just...man o man
Home of the 16 Time World Champions
User avatar
Danny Darko
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 16,355
And1: 4,417
Joined: Jun 24, 2005
         

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#153 » by Danny Darko » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:20 pm

I'm just glad that he and KCP seem to be exiting the lethal "to your career" shooter blues.

Read on Twitter
Image
stan francisco
Analyst
Posts: 3,354
And1: 873
Joined: Oct 20, 2015
 

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#154 » by stan francisco » Mon Nov 18, 2019 10:33 pm

Pythagoras wrote:Man, and I thought people were overrating Kuzma when they were comparing him to recent top 5 picks. Now we’re comparing him to HOFers...


Someone asked me once what I thought was his max ceiling for his career, I said third star on a dynasty team ceiling, like James Worthy in that respect. Then the twisting of the second hand tongue and the ensuing counter arguments against a distorted argument that was never made by anyone. Yeah.
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
tamaraw08
Junior
Posts: 386
And1: 66
Joined: Feb 13, 2019
     

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#155 » by tamaraw08 » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:02 pm

Landsberger wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
Landsberger wrote:What is "All star potential"? Kuzma has surpassed James Worthy's "stats" for the first 2+ years of his career. He's in the HOF. The difference? Championships. Worthy had similar glaring holes in his game yet his timing was fantastic to be the 3rd wheel between 2 all time greats. Not saying Kuzma is heading in that direction at all but circumstance often makes one more popular and thus gets you invited to popularity contests like All Star Games and the HOF. I can think of a dozen players who have more impactful careers than Worthy yet they still are on the outside of the HOF. Nothing against Worthy... he was exactly what we needed when we needed it but more about situations.


:lol: :lol: Cmon now... That whole post was against Worthy...

I get that you want Kuzma to be a star, but saying Worthy was opportunistic and lucky is a huge insult to Worthy. He was an all-star-quality player who accepted a role he was significantly better than, to play in LA and compete for rings.
He could have been a primary star on a decent team, but stuck with LA to be a multiple champion.

Worthy willed us to a few of those championships when our big 2 couldn't get it done. More impactful? I don't know how you quantify that... But if you came up with a handful of players, who've had 'more impactful' careers and not gotten the love Worthy did, I'd be surprised. During his career, Worthy was largely an afterthought... It wasn't until showtime was long gone that people started to appreciate him. He was under-rated as hell playing with Magic and Kareem. He clearly deserves the HOF...

Kuzma has a long way to go to even have his name mentioned in the same sentence as Worthy... To do so now is laughable.


You make a lot of assumptions about Worthy... could of... should of.... etc... and you made my point about stats to boot.

For me Worthy was the 3rd of the forwards I wanted in that draft. So now you know where I'm starting from on him. My point about Kuzma is that guys make all star teams as much because of who they play with as they do about what they do.

OK.. Worthy's HOF'er... Is he one of the 50 greatest of all time? He was given that moniker in his 8th year over a lot of better players. Fact is that because he was a Laker in the era of the 3 team league he got exposure that a lot of other players never hoped to. Kuzma is getting the same.

As for what I want for Kuzma.... I want him to be our 3rd scorer and lead the bench in a championship season. If you've followed anything I've written over the my time here you'd know I couldn't care less about All Stars or the HOF for that matter. That's popularity contest stuff. I just hope he doesn't end up hiring 2 hookers in Houston some day....

If you want a list of guys who were every bit as impactful as Worthy....Off the top of my head

Walter Davis
Chris Webber
Kevin Johnson
Tim Hardaway
Reggie Theus

That's the irony bec we don't know how Kuzma would play when he's at his peak though, unlike Worthy even at age 24, he averaged 20 pts, 5 rebs, 20.4 PER, 61.3 TS%, USG% of 22.6 (higher than Magic).
Usually, the 3rd option gets less touches during the playoffs where competition is much tougher, but he still averaged 19.6 pts in 15 attempts.
Most of the players you mentioned who were more impactful were PGs, who dominated the ball. Chris Webber was not a PG but he also dominated the ball and was NEVER A 3rd option IMO.
User avatar
Beethoven
Starter
Posts: 2,042
And1: 700
Joined: May 03, 2012
Location: Utopian Dystopia
 

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#156 » by Beethoven » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:19 pm

Kuzma is what Kuzma does.
.
Pythagoras
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,850
And1: 1,311
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Location: KC, Mo
     

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#157 » by Pythagoras » Mon Nov 18, 2019 11:53 pm

stan francisco wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:Man, and I thought people were overrating Kuzma when they were comparing him to recent top 5 picks. Now we’re comparing him to HOFers...


Someone asked me once what I thought was his max ceiling for his career, I said third star on a dynasty team ceiling, like James Worthy in that respect. Then the twisting of the second hand tongue and the ensuing counter arguments against a distorted argument that was never made by anyone. Yeah.


Well no disrespect intended to you if you didn’t make that comparison.
Numbers rule the universe.
Landsberger
Head Coach
Posts: 7,253
And1: 1,517
Joined: Jul 04, 2016
 

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#158 » by Landsberger » Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:13 am

Pythagoras wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:Man, and I thought people were overrating Kuzma when they were comparing him to recent top 5 picks. Now we’re comparing him to HOFers...


Someone asked me once what I thought was his max ceiling for his career, I said third star on a dynasty team ceiling, like James Worthy in that respect. Then the twisting of the second hand tongue and the ensuing counter arguments against a distorted argument that was never made by anyone. Yeah.


Well no disrespect intended to you if you didn’t make that comparison.


Neither did I if anyone had any reading comprehension. But then that would make knee jerk generalizations irrelevant...
PKABOOICU
Analyst
Posts: 3,739
And1: 3,730
Joined: Jun 25, 2014

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#159 » by PKABOOICU » Tue Nov 19, 2019 4:00 pm

Kuzma is not an all-star and never will be. He is exactly what he is doing right now. A 3rd option, possibly 4th, on a very good team. He only has about 2 more years left to improve till he hits his plateau. That wont lead him to some type of untouchable all-star status being 3rd fiddle.
Now that said, He's not far behind a guy like Jayson Tatum. He's still a very good player, and his jump shot seems to be coming around. Im happy with his progress....but if a trade came up where we can get a more proven vet to win now, then Kuzma can go too- just like those other kids.
Landsberger
Head Coach
Posts: 7,253
And1: 1,517
Joined: Jul 04, 2016
 

Re: will kuzma be an all star for lakers or just a good role player? 

Post#160 » by Landsberger » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:03 am

So... after a rough start he seems to be rounding into shape. Still only 23 minutes a game but his shooting % are ahead of last year across the board. Per 36, which is not that great of a stat, is showing he's off to his best start... at least in that stat.

Where I'd like to see him concentrate is on taking more 2 pointers than 3 pointers. Unlike a lot of "stretch" 4's he shoots very well inside the arc. This year he's clipping along at nearly 60% inside the arc. Last year he was at 55%. If he gets back to the 30 minute area he should track at or over his 18 points from last year. For those who view the entire NBA through the 3 pointer, he's shooting at about 50% over the last 4 from that distance... so I'd say this very small sample is showing he's getting comfortable there as well.

I still say his defense is improved and especially so in the scheme. Not sure we had scheme previously but that's for another thread.

Return to Los Angeles Lakers