Pre-Season GM 1: Lakers vs Warriors - Win

[Kilroy]

Because he is taking touches away from AD and LBJ if they dare him to shoot. It's pretty easy to see, the stats back this up and I'm not sure how you can spin that he's a good fit with LBJ.

Davis and LeBron both shot 33% from 3 last season, Rondo shot 35%...

When the opposing team is manning up Davis and LeBron on the perimeter, and leaving Rondo wide open, he has to take the shot... And if he makes enough of them, they won't leave him anymore... Which he did... This is BBALL 101 level stuff here.

There's just no argument that can be made for Rondo shooting 5 wide open 3s and making 2 of them, 'takes touches' from LeBron or Davis (I mean we're not arguing that Davis and LeBron didn't get enough touches are we?) or that this specific criteria is clear proof that Rondo is a bad fit next to them.

The educated eye test, the stats, and LeBron and Davis' opinions, all say you're wrong...

Rondo is a horrible fit next to LeBron. Well, next to pretty much everyone. Vogel will stunt the team if he insists on playing LeBron and Rondo together. It is a horrible pairing.

Rondo should NEVER play with LeBron since Rondo cannot shoot nor can he defend at all.

LeBron ON court, Rondo OFF

1,336 minutes, 2,835 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 113.2 (equivalent to 5th best offense)
Lakers’ DRtg: 107.5 (equivalent to 5th best defense)
NET: +5.8 (equivalent to 4th best rating)

LeBron and Rondo ON court

602 minutes, 1271 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 105.5 ORtg
Lakers’ DRtg: 110.9 DRtg
NET: (-5.4, equivalent to 5th worst rating

Rondo ON court, LeBron OFF

766 minutes, 1,620 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 106.0 (equivalent to 27th best offense)
Lakers’ DRtg: 117.3 (equivalent to 29th best offense)
NET: -11.3 (equivalent to worst net rating)

Rondo+ Zubac, +6.1
Rondo + anyone else a negative https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/lineups-advanced/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=2&sort=GROUP_NAME&dir=-1

Last year's stats are virtually meaningless to this years team... Davis is such a unicorn, he changes everything.

Rondo's going to be taking much more wide open shots, and he's not going to have to work as hard on D.

And frankly, those stats are far too superficial to be overly meaningful anyway. The guys who were ON with LeBron, when Rondo was OFF, are all gone this season...

[thebigbird]

Davis and LeBron both shot 33% from 3 last season, Rondo shot 35%...

When the opposing team is manning up Davis and LeBron on the perimeter, and leaving Rondo wide open, he has to take the shot... And if he makes enough of them, they won't leave him anymore... Which he did... This is BBALL 101 level stuff here.

There's just no argument that can be made for Rondo shooting 5 wide open 3s and making 2 of them, 'takes touches' from LeBron or Davis (I mean we're not arguing that Davis and LeBron didn't get enough touches are we?) or that this specific criteria is clear proof that Rondo is a bad fit next to them.

The educated eye test, the stats, and LeBron and Davis' opinions, all say you're wrong...

Rondo is a horrible fit next to LeBron. Well, next to pretty much everyone. Vogel will stunt the team if he insists on playing LeBron and Rondo together. It is a horrible pairing.

Rondo should NEVER play with LeBron since Rondo cannot shoot nor can he defend at all.

LeBron ON court, Rondo OFF

1,336 minutes, 2,835 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 113.2 (equivalent to 5th best offense)
Lakers’ DRtg: 107.5 (equivalent to 5th best defense)
NET: +5.8 (equivalent to 4th best rating)

LeBron and Rondo ON court

602 minutes, 1271 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 105.5 ORtg
Lakers’ DRtg: 110.9 DRtg
NET: (-5.4, equivalent to 5th worst rating

Rondo ON court, LeBron OFF

766 minutes, 1,620 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 106.0 (equivalent to 27th best offense)
Lakers’ DRtg: 117.3 (equivalent to 29th best offense)
NET: -11.3 (equivalent to worst net rating)

Rondo+ Zubac, +6.1
Rondo + anyone else a negative https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/lineups-advanced/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=2&sort=GROUP_NAME&dir=-1

Last year's stats are virtually meaningless to this years team... Davis is such a unicorn, he changes everything.

Rondo's going to be taking much more wide open shots, and he's not going to have to work as hard on D.

And frankly, those stats are far too superficial to be overly meaningful anyway. The guys who were ON with LeBron, when Rondo was OFF, are all gone this season...

The players are almost all different from last year, but I still think that, because the numbers are so extreme, we can conclude that the LeBron/Rondo pairing is a bad fit. LeBron/AD/Rondo will more than likely be a plus lineup this year because AD is a monster, but I think it will be less effective than any other LeBron/AD lineup you can put out there.

I'm not a rondo fan, but he has a role on this team because they need a guy to run the offense when LeBron is sitting. Rondo and AD have chemistry together from their NO days, so those lineups will probably be good. I just think it'd be a mistake to have him out there with LeBron, especially if AD is on the bench.

[thebigbird]

Rondo is a horrible fit next to LeBron. Well, next to pretty much everyone. Vogel will stunt the team if he insists on playing LeBron and Rondo together. It is a horrible pairing.

Rondo should NEVER play with LeBron since Rondo cannot shoot nor can he defend at all.

LeBron ON court, Rondo OFF

1,336 minutes, 2,835 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 113.2 (equivalent to 5th best offense)
Lakers’ DRtg: 107.5 (equivalent to 5th best defense)
NET: +5.8 (equivalent to 4th best rating)

LeBron and Rondo ON court

602 minutes, 1271 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 105.5 ORtg
Lakers’ DRtg: 110.9 DRtg
NET: (-5.4, equivalent to 5th worst rating

Rondo ON court, LeBron OFF

766 minutes, 1,620 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 106.0 (equivalent to 27th best offense)
Lakers’ DRtg: 117.3 (equivalent to 29th best offense)
NET: -11.3 (equivalent to worst net rating)

Rondo+ Zubac, +6.1
Rondo + anyone else a negative https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/lineups-advanced/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=2&sort=GROUP_NAME&dir=-1

I think nearly all would agree Rondo is a bad fit next to Lebron. However, I think you're vastly overstating things by saying he's a bad fit next to just about everyone. I think Rondo would thrive in a lineup with AD and other bench players. Like Landsberger mentioned, you simply can't project last year's stats... nearly half the players from last year are gone, nearly the entire coaching staff is gone, constant lineup changes, injuries, etc. Rondo might be the only other player on our roster that is capable of running an offense.[/quote]
That's fair. Last year's roster was very poorly constructed. The lack of shooting hurt everyone, even LeBron. I'm cool with him playing every single non-LeBron minute, honestly. I'll just lose my mind if we see the LeBron/Rondo lineup as often as we did last year.

[stan francisco]

Not a big fan of the cacock

He’s a banger, bruiser and effort guy, a useful role player. The way I see it, he’s a few hard fouls on an opposing forward. A scrappy, energetic rookie with young legs who will dive to the floor, run the break. Every team needs a guy like that. Caroline is similar. I like both of them, although neither is starter material just yet.

[tamaraw08]

Rondo is a horrible fit next to LeBron. Well, next to pretty much everyone. Vogel will stunt the team if he insists on playing LeBron and Rondo together. It is a horrible pairing.

Rondo should NEVER play with LeBron since Rondo cannot shoot nor can he defend at all.

LeBron ON court, Rondo OFF

1,336 minutes, 2,835 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 113.2 (equivalent to 5th best offense)
Lakers’ DRtg: 107.5 (equivalent to 5th best defense)
NET: +5.8 (equivalent to 4th best rating)

LeBron and Rondo ON court

602 minutes, 1271 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 105.5 ORtg
Lakers’ DRtg: 110.9 DRtg
NET: (-5.4, equivalent to 5th worst rating

Rondo ON court, LeBron OFF

766 minutes, 1,620 possessions
Lakers’ ORtg: 106.0 (equivalent to 27th best offense)
Lakers’ DRtg: 117.3 (equivalent to 29th best offense)
NET: -11.3 (equivalent to worst net rating)

Rondo+ Zubac, +6.1
Rondo + anyone else a negative https://stats.nba.com/team/1610612747/lineups-advanced/?Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GroupQuantity=2&sort=GROUP_NAME&dir=-1

I think nearly all would agree Rondo is a bad fit next to Lebron. However, I think you're vastly overstating things by saying he's a bad fit next to just about everyone. I think Rondo would thrive in a lineup with AD and other bench players. Like Landsberger mentioned, you simply can't project last year's stats... nearly half the players from last year are gone, nearly the entire coaching staff is gone, constant lineup changes, injuries, etc. Rondo might be the only other player on our roster that is capable of running an offense.

That's fair. Last year's roster was very poorly constructed. The lack of shooting hurt everyone, even LeBron. I'm cool with him playing every single non-LeBron minute, honestly. I'll just lose my mind if we see the LeBron/Rondo lineup as often as we did last year.[/quote]
I can picture Rondo being a good floor leader for the bench executing a variety of screen rolls with JMC and Davis along with a 3-D player like Danny Green on the corner. He was pretty good with the New Orleans team that swept the favored Blazers team 2 years ago too but it's not just the past stats along with future projections. Lebron is ok playing off the ball but he works best directing the offense IMO and I just can't see him doing that great with a non shooter like Rondo who ALSO loves to dominate the ball.
James found a way to play with other playmakers like Wade but he works best with shooters like Kyrie, Korver, JR Smith where his team was always top 5 in ORTG, TOP 3 actually with Kyrie.

[snaquille oatmeal]

Not a big fan of the cacock

He’s a banger, bruiser and effort guy, a useful role player. The way I see it, he’s a few hard fouls on an opposing forward. A scrappy, energetic rookie with young legs who will dive to the floor, run the break. Every team needs a guy like that. Caroline is similar. I like both of them, although neither is starter material just yet.

So you love the Cacock

[stan francisco]

Not a big fan of the cacock

He’s a banger, bruiser and effort guy, a useful role player. The way I see it, he’s a few hard fouls on an opposing forward. A scrappy, energetic rookie with young legs who will dive to the floor, run the break. Every team needs a guy like that. Caroline is similar. I like both of them, although neither is starter material just yet.

So you love the Cacock

If you watch more video of the Cacock, you may come to appreciate the Cacock more, snaq! Lol.

[lalalaker]

I hope caruso has a chance with the starters in this preseason After watching the first preseason game i got the impression rondo not really a good fit with the starters and found bradley to be a better fit to start the game with defense. teams will leave rondo open and he isnt that good of a shooter to begin with hence why he is open alot. bradley and caruso both gives a good balance of offense and defense and i am not at high at all on KCP dude is a mess and i hope he has at least a small reputation left to bring in a 2nd rounder come trade deadline. caruso is not afraid to attack the rim and is strong enough to take contact. rondo is more of a pg that waits for opportunity for assist rather than creating once which is why he is less of a threat. rondo in offense is like playing 4&1/2 players vs 5 especially if mcgee or howard who would only score off dunks is in together.

[stan francisco]

Rondos shot selection on threes is impeccable. He makes them at a high rate when open, like 50%, doesn’t take the shot if low percentage.

He’s gonna be left open a lot this season, which is why Frank thinks Rondo will have a great shooting year. I concur. To me that means good shot selection, him only taking the open threes.

If the opponents have to start covering Rondo by the three, that game is over.

[Landsberger]

OMG, that's all you understood from Lowe's comment?

yeah.... I'm an idiot. Not just for that but also for starting this discussion it seems.

[tamaraw08]

OMG, that's all you understood from Lowe's comment?

yeah.... I'm an idiot. Not just for that but also for starting this discussion it seems.

I apologize for offending you, I was hoping you will reply more about Lowe’s main point about how Rondo will hurt the team regardless of a specific stat that says otherwise.
Of course there will be stats that would be misleading it all depends on how we understand the context. We are all rendering our opinions here even writers like Lowe. Sometimes we agree on certain points, sometimes we dont.
I was a big critic of KCP and had discussions with BSH about it, but now I’m changing my tune a bit that he’s not a horrible defender. I still don’t like the Rondo-LEbron combo and it seems like a few are agreeing with me.
Again I apologize for offending you

[Landsberger]

OMG, that's all you understood from Lowe's comment?

yeah.... I'm an idiot. Not just for that but also for starting this discussion it seems.

I apologize for offending you, I was hoping you will reply more about Lowe’s main point about how Rondo will hurt the team regardless of a specific stat that says otherwise.
Of course there will be stats that would be misleading it all depends on how we understand the context. We are all rendering our opinions here even writers like Lowe. Sometimes we agree on certain points, sometimes we dont.
I was a big critic of KCP and had discussions with BSH about it, but now I’m changing my tune a bit that he’s not a horrible defender. I still don’t like the Rondo-LEbron combo and it seems like a few are agreeing with me.
Again I apologize for offending you

We could go back and forth on this forever. Bottom line is that Rondo will play a lot and so will LeBron so they will be on the floor together. If we win a lot of games one of two things is happening.... Lowe is wrong or we will win in spite of Rondo.