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Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense

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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#21 » by Landsberger » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:28 am

thebigbird wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
nzahir wrote:Lol kobe at the end of his career was a poor defender. The nostalgia is pretty funny


See my reply to your buddy above. Wrong tree to bark up. Never was a Kobe homer. At least he wasn’t a poser.

LBJ is so extremely gifted physically. It’s a shame to see him choose not to play defense. Maybe it’s the knees...?

LeBron has actually played really well on defense in the first two games. He's extremely gifted physically, but he's also in his 17th season. The vast majority of hall of famers were already retired by their 17th seasons. Yet LeBron is still arguably the best player in the NBA, top 5 at worst. He's not going to be able to go 100% every day like he could 10 years ago. It just is what it is.


Kareem was finals MVP at age 37... the next year he averaged over 36 a game against Hakeem and Sampson at 38.
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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#22 » by thebigbird » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:40 am

Landsberger wrote:
thebigbird wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
See my reply to your buddy above. Wrong tree to bark up. Never was a Kobe homer. At least he wasn’t a poser.

LBJ is so extremely gifted physically. It’s a shame to see him choose not to play defense. Maybe it’s the knees...?

LeBron has actually played really well on defense in the first two games. He's extremely gifted physically, but he's also in his 17th season. The vast majority of hall of famers were already retired by their 17th seasons. Yet LeBron is still arguably the best player in the NBA, top 5 at worst. He's not going to be able to go 100% every day like he could 10 years ago. It just is what it is.


Kareem was finals MVP at age 37... the next year he averaged over 36 a game against Hakeem and Sampson at 38.

Kareem was a 7'2 center playing during an era where centers primarily stayed on the block. That's a lot less movement than what LeBron is doing. He wasn't chasing guys around the perimeter, initiating the offense, bull rushing the rim a couple dozen times a game. You can't compare a wing to a center in that regard. Plus, Kareem only averaged 33 mpg in the regular season and 32 mpg in the playoffs.

And if you're talking about the playoff series against Houston he next season, Kareem averaged 27 ppg, not over 36. Unless you're talking about minutes.

If the Lakers want to go deep in the playoffs then LeBron will need to be playing 40+ minutes per game. That's not happening if he wears himself out throughout the season. It's not reasonably to expect a player in his 17th season to run the offense, score 30+ points a night, and guard the other team's best player. The point of having AD is to have him carry the load during the regular season and have LeBron take over once the playoffs get here.
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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#23 » by stan francisco » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:55 am

nzahir wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
nzahir wrote:Lol kobe at the end of his career was a poor defender. The nostalgia is pretty funny


See my reply to your buddy above. Wrong tree to bark up. Never was a Kobe homer. At least he wasn’t a poser.

LBJ is so extremely gifted physically. It’s a shame to see him choose not to play defense. Maybe it’s the knees...?

The way people rate him though makes is ridiculous, his best effort at his older age wasn't good enough consistently

Lebron has played good d the last 2 nights. And its not like Kawhi is playing 82 games of elite d vs the other teams best stars

DO you want Lebron to be more fresh and less chance of an injury or give some more effort in reg szn that wont be the biggest difference.

Better O>Better D anyways. Some of the shots kawhi makes is unbelievable and Lebron has such a huge role on offense. The 2nd best ball handler is rajon rondo lol

Kawhi has Lou and PG



As the leader of this team, yes, I want him to set the tone for the rest of the guys. If he plays harder when on the floor, rest of team will follow. Then he can sit more because we’ll blow most teams out. If he mails it in, so will the rest of the roster. If he plays hard...

No, I don’t want him worn down by the playoffs. And, yes, he’s played “better defense than last year” (0 defense) in his first two games this season, but a block and a grimace doesn’t do it for me.
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#24 » by Landsberger » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:58 am

thebigbird wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
thebigbird wrote:LeBron has actually played really well on defense in the first two games. He's extremely gifted physically, but he's also in his 17th season. The vast majority of hall of famers were already retired by their 17th seasons. Yet LeBron is still arguably the best player in the NBA, top 5 at worst. He's not going to be able to go 100% every day like he could 10 years ago. It just is what it is.


Kareem was finals MVP at age 37... the next year he averaged over 36 a game against Hakeem and Sampson at 38.

Kareem was a 7'2 center playing during an era where centers primarily stayed on the block. That's a lot less movement than what LeBron is doing. He wasn't chasing guys around the perimeter, initiating the offense, bull rushing the rim a couple dozen times a game. You can't compare a wing to a center in that regard. Plus, Kareem only averaged 33 mpg in the regular season and 32 mpg in the playoffs.

And if you're talking about the playoff series against Houston he next season, Kareem averaged 27 ppg, not over 36. Unless you're talking about minutes.

If the Lakers want to go deep in the playoffs then LeBron will need to be playing 40+ minutes per game. That's not happening if he wears himself out throughout the season. It's not reasonably to expect a player in his 17th season to run the offense, score 30+ points a night, and guard the other team's best player. The point of having AD is to have him carry the load during the regular season and have LeBron take over once the playoffs get here.


Kareem was a 225lb 7'-2"center in the center era. Banging against guys larger than him every night. Kobe played at 225lbs for comparison.

Posting up against a guy pushing you away from the basked and having 2 or 3 guys chip you as you cross the lane as the ball is rotated expends a lot of energy. I'd say what he did at 38 is the most impressive at that age ever.... and I don't think it's close. Bron won't be 38 for over 3 more years.

As for what he did against Houston... it's the regular season. He averaged 36.75 against Houston that year. EDIT: I missed a game... he also had an 18 point game so it's 33. He averaged 31 the year prior. All against the twin towers.

To LeBron, He can learn to play off Davis and pick his spots over the next couple of years. If Kuzma can be a 18 ppg guy it will take even more pressure off of him. This year we're about the big 2... and hopefully 3. Next year we should be able to augment the team a little and become even stronger.
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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#25 » by thebigbird » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:21 am

Landsberger wrote:
thebigbird wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
Kareem was finals MVP at age 37... the next year he averaged over 36 a game against Hakeem and Sampson at 38.

Kareem was a 7'2 center playing during an era where centers primarily stayed on the block. That's a lot less movement than what LeBron is doing. He wasn't chasing guys around the perimeter, initiating the offense, bull rushing the rim a couple dozen times a game. You can't compare a wing to a center in that regard. Plus, Kareem only averaged 33 mpg in the regular season and 32 mpg in the playoffs.

And if you're talking about the playoff series against Houston he next season, Kareem averaged 27 ppg, not over 36. Unless you're talking about minutes.

If the Lakers want to go deep in the playoffs then LeBron will need to be playing 40+ minutes per game. That's not happening if he wears himself out throughout the season. It's not reasonably to expect a player in his 17th season to run the offense, score 30+ points a night, and guard the other team's best player. The point of having AD is to have him carry the load during the regular season and have LeBron take over once the playoffs get here.


Kareem was a 225lb 7'-2"center in the center era. Banging against guys larger than him every night. Kobe played at 225lbs for comparison.

Posting up against a guy pushing you away from the basked and having 2 or 3 guys chip you as you cross the lane as the ball is rotated expends a lot of energy. I'd say what he did at 38 is the most impressive at that age ever.... and I don't think it's close. Bron won't be 38 for over 3 more years.

As for what he did against Houston... it's the regular season. He averaged 36.75 against Houston that year. EDIT: I missed a game... he also had an 18 point game so it's 33. He averaged 31 the year prior. All against the twin towers.

To LeBron, He can learn to play off Davis and pick his spots over the next couple of years. If Kuzma can be a 18 ppg guy it will take even more pressure off of him. This year we're about the big 2... and hopefully 3. Next year we should be able to augment the team a little and become even stronger.

It certainly was impressive. All I'm saying is that it's not realistic to expect him to go full throttle every single night during the regular season. He'll still play at a high level, just not at the level he could've ten years ago every night.
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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#26 » by Landsberger » Sun Oct 27, 2019 3:25 am

thebigbird wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
thebigbird wrote:Kareem was a 7'2 center playing during an era where centers primarily stayed on the block. That's a lot less movement than what LeBron is doing. He wasn't chasing guys around the perimeter, initiating the offense, bull rushing the rim a couple dozen times a game. You can't compare a wing to a center in that regard. Plus, Kareem only averaged 33 mpg in the regular season and 32 mpg in the playoffs.

And if you're talking about the playoff series against Houston he next season, Kareem averaged 27 ppg, not over 36. Unless you're talking about minutes.

If the Lakers want to go deep in the playoffs then LeBron will need to be playing 40+ minutes per game. That's not happening if he wears himself out throughout the season. It's not reasonably to expect a player in his 17th season to run the offense, score 30+ points a night, and guard the other team's best player. The point of having AD is to have him carry the load during the regular season and have LeBron take over once the playoffs get here.


Kareem was a 225lb 7'-2"center in the center era. Banging against guys larger than him every night. Kobe played at 225lbs for comparison.

Posting up against a guy pushing you away from the basked and having 2 or 3 guys chip you as you cross the lane as the ball is rotated expends a lot of energy. I'd say what he did at 38 is the most impressive at that age ever.... and I don't think it's close. Bron won't be 38 for over 3 more years.

As for what he did against Houston... it's the regular season. He averaged 36.75 against Houston that year. EDIT: I missed a game... he also had an 18 point game so it's 33. He averaged 31 the year prior. All against the twin towers.

To LeBron, He can learn to play off Davis and pick his spots over the next couple of years. If Kuzma can be a 18 ppg guy it will take even more pressure off of him. This year we're about the big 2... and hopefully 3. Next year we should be able to augment the team a little and become even stronger.

It certainly was impressive. All I'm saying is that it's not realistic to expect him to go full throttle every single night during the regular season. He'll still play at a high level, just not at the level he could've ten years ago every night.


No one can... Kareem had the good fortune to have Magic. Let's hope Davis does what Magic did for Kareem.
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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#27 » by Cafu » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:58 am

stan francisco wrote:
nzahir wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
See my reply to your buddy above. Wrong tree to bark up. Never was a Kobe homer. At least he wasn’t a poser.

LBJ is so extremely gifted physically. It’s a shame to see him choose not to play defense. Maybe it’s the knees...?

The way people rate him though makes is ridiculous, his best effort at his older age wasn't good enough consistently

Lebron has played good d the last 2 nights. And its not like Kawhi is playing 82 games of elite d vs the other teams best stars

DO you want Lebron to be more fresh and less chance of an injury or give some more effort in reg szn that wont be the biggest difference.

Better O>Better D anyways. Some of the shots kawhi makes is unbelievable and Lebron has such a huge role on offense. The 2nd best ball handler is rajon rondo lol

Kawhi has Lou and PG



As the leader of this team, yes, I want him to set the tone for the rest of the guys. If he plays harder when on the floor, rest of team will follow. Then he can sit more because we’ll blow most teams out. If he mails it in, so will the rest of the roster. If he plays hard...

No, I don’t want him worn down by the playoffs. And, yes, he’s played “better defense than last year” (0 defense) in his first two games this season, but a block and a grimace doesn’t do it for me.


I hope that you are kidding.
Lebron played very good defense the last two games by any standard.
Numerous charges, closing out, steals or rebounds.
He sure is trying as the whole team are following.
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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#28 » by stan francisco » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:54 pm

Cafu wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
nzahir wrote:The way people rate him though makes is ridiculous, his best effort at his older age wasn't good enough consistently

Lebron has played good d the last 2 nights. And its not like Kawhi is playing 82 games of elite d vs the other teams best stars

DO you want Lebron to be more fresh and less chance of an injury or give some more effort in reg szn that wont be the biggest difference.

Better O>Better D anyways. Some of the shots kawhi makes is unbelievable and Lebron has such a huge role on offense. The 2nd best ball handler is rajon rondo lol

Kawhi has Lou and PG



As the leader of this team, yes, I want him to set the tone for the rest of the guys. If he plays harder when on the floor, rest of team will follow. Then he can sit more because we’ll blow most teams out. If he mails it in, so will the rest of the roster. If he plays hard...

No, I don’t want him worn down by the playoffs. And, yes, he’s played “better defense than last year” (0 defense) in his first two games this season, but a block and a grimace doesn’t do it for me.


I hope that you are kidding.
Lebron played very good defense the last two games by any standard.
Numerous charges, closing out, steals or rebounds.
He sure is trying as the whole team are following.


He played better defense than last year in the first two games, yes. Better than last year means nothing. He didn’t play defense at all last year. Kuzma had to literally push him onto his man and out of indifference.

As hard as Kawhi plays defense would be enough for LeBron. He needs to turn it up defensively period. If he does, the rest will follow. If not, we can forget rings this year. I care more about Lakers winning rings than putting the rose colored glasses on.

I want to see that leadership; you know, leading by pulling from the front, not by whipping from above.

The championship for us goes through the Clippers and vice versa. Next meeting w them, he’d better dominate Leonard on defense and get us the win. I’d like to see him completely shut him down, because he can; if he makes it his business. It’s a choice of his.

Frank said Smashmouth defense. Starts with Bron.
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#29 » by stan francisco » Sun Oct 27, 2019 2:03 pm

And to the OP, my view is not that the Lakers are hiding anything. They beat us by playing better defense and we were not conditioned to play at regular season pace because of the stupid China trip.

We’ll beat them next time. I want to see a real beat-down.
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#30 » by nzahir » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:04 pm

stan francisco wrote:
Cafu wrote:
stan francisco wrote:

As the leader of this team, yes, I want him to set the tone for the rest of the guys. If he plays harder when on the floor, rest of team will follow. Then he can sit more because we’ll blow most teams out. If he mails it in, so will the rest of the roster. If he plays hard...

No, I don’t want him worn down by the playoffs. And, yes, he’s played “better defense than last year” (0 defense) in his first two games this season, but a block and a grimace doesn’t do it for me.


I hope that you are kidding.
Lebron played very good defense the last two games by any standard.
Numerous charges, closing out, steals or rebounds.
He sure is trying as the whole team are following.


He played better defense than last year in the first two games, yes. Better than last year means nothing. He didn’t play defense at all last year. Kuzma had to literally push him onto his man and out of indifference.

As hard as Kawhi plays defense would be enough for LeBron. He needs to turn it up defensively period. If he does, the rest will follow. If not, we can forget rings this year. I care more about Lakers winning rings than putting the rose colored glasses on.

I want to see that leadership; you know, leading by pulling from the front, not by whipping from above.

The championship for us goes through the Clippers and vice versa. Next meeting w them, he’d better dominate Leonard on defense and get us the win. I’d like to see him completely shut him down, because he can; if he makes it his business. It’s a choice of his.

Frank said Smashmouth defense. Starts with Bron.

I hope you’re kidding or you’re lost

Nobody is shutting down Kawhi rn.

You can contain him some nights but most of it really just depends if the shot goes in or out

Kawhi in his defensive prime a few years ago couldn’t do anything to KD
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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#31 » by bb22 » Sun Oct 27, 2019 5:13 pm

myersia wrote:
stan francisco wrote:Kobe would’ve been attached to Kawhi’s hip from start to finish. Weak sauce LeBron.


Not to start the whole Kobe vs Lebron debate but honestly since Lebron joined our team I’ve realized how underrated and unappreciated Kobe was. Take away the stats and all the bs analytics. Kobe too me was so much better than most say he was. Call me crazy but I think prime Kobe was better than Bron. For reasons like stan said. Dude played hard as hell.


No doubt prime Kobe was better than this 35 year old version of Lebron. But Lebron was a relentless monster on both ends of the floor for a little over a decade. His effort has fallen off, as expected.
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Re: Lebron+AD Pick n' roll hidden from the Clippers - Game Theory or just great defense 

Post#32 » by dockingsched » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:03 pm

stan francisco wrote:
Cafu wrote:
stan francisco wrote:

As the leader of this team, yes, I want him to set the tone for the rest of the guys. If he plays harder when on the floor, rest of team will follow. Then he can sit more because we’ll blow most teams out. If he mails it in, so will the rest of the roster. If he plays hard...

No, I don’t want him worn down by the playoffs. And, yes, he’s played “better defense than last year” (0 defense) in his first two games this season, but a block and a grimace doesn’t do it for me.


I hope that you are kidding.
Lebron played very good defense the last two games by any standard.
Numerous charges, closing out, steals or rebounds.
He sure is trying as the whole team are following.


He played better defense than last year in the first two games, yes. Better than last year means nothing. He didn’t play defense at all last year. Kuzma had to literally push him onto his man and out of indifference.


If you don’t bother to understand the plays you are discussing, then better not to even pretend to know what you’re talking about. Lebron didn’t get pushed by Kuzma because of some indifference, it was because Kuzma had a total mental lapse which he couldn’t recover from, and tried to get Lebron to cover for him when Lebron had no business leaving his spot based on the coverage they were implementing.

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/03/lebron-james-kyle-kuzma-push-defense/amp

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