ImageImageImageImageImage

The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in?

Moderators: TyCobb, Kilroy, Danny Darko

should Caruso start? is Dwight forgiven?

Poll runs till Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:20 am

yes, Caruso should start.
18
19%
yes, Dwight is aaight.
27
28%
no, Caruso belongs in the G-league
5
5%
no, Dwight is soft
1
1%
i'm in the Carushow and Dwight bandwagon
15
16%
I need a bigger sample size
25
26%
no, I will never jump on the bandwagon
4
4%
 
Total votes: 95

Pythagoras
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,813
And1: 1,268
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Location: KC, Mo
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#41 » by Pythagoras » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:13 pm

Ball so hard wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
It's interesting you mention confirmation bias then went on to highlight stats that are largely misleading. I know it's like beating a dead horse, but I'll nonetheless give it another try. The stats you and other Caruso proponents are using are limited. Your entire argument is based on stats from approximately a third of the season, a season in which he primarily played against scrubs; this is by definition confirmation bias. Stats without context is virtually meaningless.


Ah yes, the old he played good only against scrubs argument. You know I was pretty sure this argument was bunk, but nonetheless I just decided to pick a good guard in the West to check myself. Let’s do Lou Williams, since he torched us in the first game:

Here were Lou’s stats against us when Caruso wasn’t on the floor last year:

56.9 FG%, +4.3 in 25.9 mpg in 4 games

When Caruso was on the floor, Lou’s stats:

33.3 FG%, -0.3 in 9.7 mpg in 3 games

So you want to tell me why these stats don’t matter either? Or let’s try another way, outside of Danny Green, you tell which our current crop of guards deserves more pt than Caruso?


Again, you continue to post misleading stats. Do you know what a sample size is, or do you not care what a sample size is?

Causo played in 3 games against the Clipper last year as you correctly noted. He played 38, 5, and 1 minute, respectively. Caruso was matched up against Lou for a total of 3.17 min... let that sink in for a minute. A quick review of an analysis I did in another thread shows he was actually a net negative while defending Lou. Lou's fg% was also excellent while being guarded by Caruso. However, fg% is largely meaningless here given the extremely small sample size. Full disclosure: the analysis is based on individual stats and not team based stats. The stats you're using is based on the overall team performance...using this approach can be very tricky IMO and often reveal information that simply doesn't make much sense. For example, Korver was rated pretty well last year in terms of DRPM; he was rated well above some players who are clearly better on defense.


NBA.com is saying Caruso was on the floor for 28 min total last year when Lou Williams was on the floor. Where are you getting the 3.17 total minutes from? Additionally, show me his excellent fg% that he put up while guarded by Caruso? Cause the NBA.com numbers I gave show Lou’s numbers clearly dipped when Caruso stepped on the floor.
Numbers rule the universe.
Pythagoras
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,813
And1: 1,268
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Location: KC, Mo
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#42 » by Pythagoras » Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:18 pm

evilpimp972 wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
evilpimp972 wrote:You're the one who said his stats were that good because he played vs backups
Well this year his impacts stats have been absurd and he played mostly vs starters.
Next question?


:banghead: :banghead:

I really don't know what's so hard to understand. You simply shouldn't use an insignificant sample size to argue for or against a player. You haven't refuted a thing I said. You are tacitly trying to move the goalpost. You and other Caruso supporters are claiming his stats are so great and therefore he should start. The onus is on you to prove why he should start... your response is likely, "look how great his stats are."

Not even close. I'm not saying he should start.
I've responded to your claim that the sample size is against scrubs, which is a non fact. If you meant that he played "meaningless games" last year okay, but he didn't play scrubs.
I don't need sample size to know that he's a better defender than Cook or Rondo. For Rondo, it's been multiple years of him being one of the worst players in the league.
I'm not even using stats but watching the games as the stats for Caruso aren't that great. The little things he does is what we all should you like. Sorry if he's not fishing for assist like Rajon


This. Seriously, forget the stats, just watch him play. He’s a well above defender who’s smart and competent offensively. I don’t really understand why people are having a hard time wrapping their head around a guy with a skill set like that could be a solid player.
Numbers rule the universe.
Ball so hard
Rookie
Posts: 1,105
And1: 399
Joined: Jul 04, 2017
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#43 » by Ball so hard » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:43 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
Ah yes, the old he played good only against scrubs argument. You know I was pretty sure this argument was bunk, but nonetheless I just decided to pick a good guard in the West to check myself. Let’s do Lou Williams, since he torched us in the first game:

Here were Lou’s stats against us when Caruso wasn’t on the floor last year:

56.9 FG%, +4.3 in 25.9 mpg in 4 games

When Caruso was on the floor, Lou’s stats:

33.3 FG%, -0.3 in 9.7 mpg in 3 games

So you want to tell me why these stats don’t matter either? Or let’s try another way, outside of Danny Green, you tell which our current crop of guards deserves more pt than Caruso?


Again, you continue to post misleading stats. Do you know what a sample size is, or do you not care what a sample size is?

Causo played in 3 games against the Clipper last year as you correctly noted. He played 38, 5, and 1 minute, respectively. Caruso was matched up against Lou for a total of 3.17 min... let that sink in for a minute. A quick review of an analysis I did in another thread shows he was actually a net negative while defending Lou. Lou's fg% was also excellent while being guarded by Caruso. However, fg% is largely meaningless here given the extremely small sample size. Full disclosure: the analysis is based on individual stats and not team based stats. The stats you're using is based on the overall team performance...using this approach can be very tricky IMO and often reveal information that simply doesn't make much sense. For example, Korver was rated pretty well last year in terms of DRPM; he was rated well above some players who are clearly better on defense.


NBA.com is saying Caruso was on the floor for 28 min total last year when Lou Williams was on the floor. Where are you getting the 3.17 total minutes from? Additionally, show me his excellent fg% that he put up while guarded by Caruso? Cause the NBA.com numbers I gave show Lou’s numbers clearly dipped when Caruso stepped on the floor.


You're looking at total minutes shared on the court together, which is also quite small. 3.17 is the total minutes he was credited for guarding Lou as per NBA.com. There's really no point in discussing fg% given the number of possessions. Can you really decipher anything meaningful from 3 min? You're giving Caruso credit for merely being on the court at the same time as Lou... does this make any sense to you? Sure you can get some information from sharing the court at the same time. However, to make a blanket statement by saying Caruso is the reason Lou struggled is preposterous.
Sedale Threatt
RealGM
Posts: 35,776
And1: 18,441
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Location: Clearing space in the trophy case.

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#44 » by Sedale Threatt » Tue Oct 29, 2019 8:54 pm

I can't put a finger on exactly why, but I really don't mind Caruso being a part of the rotation. He's not much better than replacement level, if that. But I appreciate the fact that there's never any question about his effort level and mental engagement. I sure as sh*t respect him more than somebody like Pope, who gets paid enormously more to provide essentially the same impact.

The thing is, he and pretty much the rest of our supporting cast are all going to be inconsistent. It's not like, say, the Clippers, who know exactly what they can count on from Beverley, Williams and Harrell every night. Vogel is just gonna have to come up with answers on a nightly basis as we move forward, and that's going to be a frustrating process.

But again, with somebody like Caruso, you at least know he's going to play hard and generally not make a bunch of dumb mistakes, and there's something to be said for that.
"Is Donald Trump an intellectual? Trust me. I’m, like, a smart person" - Donald Trump

"Suck it, and keep on sucking" - Diego Maradona

"Don't ask me for my autograph. Ask me about the rage that's inside of me" - Dennis Scott
Sedale Threatt
RealGM
Posts: 35,776
And1: 18,441
Joined: Feb 06, 2007
Location: Clearing space in the trophy case.

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#45 » by Sedale Threatt » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:00 pm

Also, there's still a long way to go, and I'm definitely not counting on a double-double off the bench every night. But I truly believe Dwight has been humbled and is ready to embrace this role. Not only has his game slipped tremendously in recent years, his reputation around the league is pretty much in the toilet. He's gone from being the face of a Finals team to playing on five different teams in five years. You'd be hard-pressed to find a superstar who has had a fall from grace of that magnitude, at least one that didn't involve injuries and/or legal woes. Not like he's ever had a lot of self-awareness, but you'd have to be cosmically stupid not to grasp all that. I think he does, and I think he's going to have a solid year.
"Is Donald Trump an intellectual? Trust me. I’m, like, a smart person" - Donald Trump

"Suck it, and keep on sucking" - Diego Maradona

"Don't ask me for my autograph. Ask me about the rage that's inside of me" - Dennis Scott
Ball so hard
Rookie
Posts: 1,105
And1: 399
Joined: Jul 04, 2017
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#46 » by Ball so hard » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:02 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
evilpimp972 wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
:banghead: :banghead:

I really don't know what's so hard to understand. You simply shouldn't use an insignificant sample size to argue for or against a player. You haven't refuted a thing I said. You are tacitly trying to move the goalpost. You and other Caruso supporters are claiming his stats are so great and therefore he should start. The onus is on you to prove why he should start... your response is likely, "look how great his stats are."

Not even close. I'm not saying he should start.
I've responded to your claim that the sample size is against scrubs, which is a non fact. If you meant that he played "meaningless games" last year okay, but he didn't play scrubs.
I don't need sample size to know that he's a better defender than Cook or Rondo. For Rondo, it's been multiple years of him being one of the worst players in the league.
I'm not even using stats but watching the games as the stats for Caruso aren't that great. The little things he does is what we all should you like. Sorry if he's not fishing for assist like Rajon


This. Seriously, forget the stats, just watch him play. He’s a well above defender who’s smart and competent offensively. I don’t really understand why people are having a hard time wrapping their head around a guy with a skill set like that could be a solid player.


Your arguments are all over the place. No one is saying Caruso isn't a solid player. The disagreement is with regard to how good people think Caruso is. You and a few others are saying he should start, based on how well he performed last year. In other words some people are consistently hyping the guy for a number of reasons, number one reason being his advanced stats, which i've pointed out many times are being misused. I'm in the camp of Caruso is still largely unproven and should first earn rotation minutes before he's even considered for a starting spot. To date I have not seen anything that suggest he deserves to start.
Ball so hard
Rookie
Posts: 1,105
And1: 399
Joined: Jul 04, 2017
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#47 » by Ball so hard » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:06 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:I can't put a finger on exactly why, but I really don't mind Caruso being a part of the rotation. He's not much better than replacement level, if that. But I appreciate the fact that there's never any question about his effort level and mental engagement. I sure as sh*t respect him more than somebody like Pope, who gets paid enormously more to provide essentially the same impact.

The thing is, he and pretty much the rest of our supporting cast are all going to be inconsistent. It's not like, say, the Clippers, who know exactly what they can count on from Beverley, Williams and Harrell every night. Vogel is just gonna have to come up with answers on a nightly basis as we move forward, and that's going to be a frustrating process.

But again, with somebody like Caruso, you at least know he's going to play hard and generally not make a bunch of dumb mistakes, and there's something to be said for that.


This is pretty much my sentiment. I like Caruso as a solid rotation guy. I just find the constant hype to be a bit ridiculous.
Landsberger
Head Coach
Posts: 6,959
And1: 1,468
Joined: Jul 04, 2016
 

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#48 » by Landsberger » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:56 am

Ball so hard wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:I can't put a finger on exactly why, but I really don't mind Caruso being a part of the rotation. He's not much better than replacement level, if that. But I appreciate the fact that there's never any question about his effort level and mental engagement. I sure as sh*t respect him more than somebody like Pope, who gets paid enormously more to provide essentially the same impact.

The thing is, he and pretty much the rest of our supporting cast are all going to be inconsistent. It's not like, say, the Clippers, who know exactly what they can count on from Beverley, Williams and Harrell every night. Vogel is just gonna have to come up with answers on a nightly basis as we move forward, and that's going to be a frustrating process.

But again, with somebody like Caruso, you at least know he's going to play hard and generally not make a bunch of dumb mistakes, and there's something to be said for that.


This is pretty much my sentiment. I like Caruso as a solid rotation guy. I just find the constant hype to be a bit ridiculous.



The hype is from the "I know more than you" faction. You can't base it on stats or on eye test..... yet. I agree that he should get a shot but I see him as having a ceiling no higher than our other more seasoned choices. I'm with you on why it's even a thing until he shows he deserves consistent playing time. The idea that you just bench Rondo at the end of the bench for this guy is just flat out ridiculous if anyone understands how a team works and how experience is valued on teams playing for more than pride.
stan francisco
Analyst
Posts: 3,324
And1: 868
Joined: Oct 20, 2015
 

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#49 » by stan francisco » Wed Oct 30, 2019 2:05 am

Gus McCrae wrote:I don’t want to promote Dwight too early. He’s great in his humbled role, my concern is he starts believing he’s a star and reverts to his “wanting to post up” ways. Let’s keep him right where he is. I would, however, like to see Caruso and Bradley as the starting back court. Caruso makes the right plays, is unselfish, is athletic (!) and hustles, plus he can hit the open shot. He’s a great fit.


Agreed on all counts.

On Howard, I’d add that there’s a different look in his eyes and personality, he seems inspired and hungry AND, if you ask me, he seems happy to not have to carry any pressure. It actually seems like he finally grew up, got a grip, can finally play free, without expectations. Too early to say of course but it kind of seems to me like we don’t have to worry about relapses. He’s finally found his niche, his true comfortable role. Is in great(!) shape and light on his feet.

If Howard embraces the dirt dog job he’s been given and waves the finger like Mutombo every night and is happy with that, I’ll forgive him for all former Laker sins and get on his bandwagon. If he can just keep doing what he’s doing now and then just do it better and better... The crowd loves this Howard.

Hey, DH12, take a pay cut next year, too. The no pressure is working well for you!

We’re talking about a C that was the best C in the league for like 6-7 years, annual DPOY candidate.
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
User avatar
EArl
RealGM
Posts: 46,016
And1: 10,088
Joined: Mar 14, 2012
Location: Santa Cruz
   

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#50 » by EArl » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:04 am

Officially on the Dwight Bandwagon.
Deep into that darkness peering, long I stood there wondering, fearing, Doubting, dreaming dreams no mortal ever dared to dream before;
Kilroy
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 17,047
And1: 7,443
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Location: The Motel 9 in Vegas
       

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#51 » by Kilroy » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:06 am

There's something to be said for second chances... Good for him.
tamaraw08
Junior
Posts: 367
And1: 65
Joined: Feb 13, 2019
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#52 » by tamaraw08 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:51 pm

Ball so hard wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
Again, you continue to post misleading stats. Do you know what a sample size is, or do you not care what a sample size is?

Causo played in 3 games against the Clipper last year as you correctly noted. He played 38, 5, and 1 minute, respectively. Caruso was matched up against Lou for a total of 3.17 min... let that sink in for a minute. A quick review of an analysis I did in another thread shows he was actually a net negative while defending Lou. Lou's fg% was also excellent while being guarded by Caruso. However, fg% is largely meaningless here given the extremely small sample size. Full disclosure: the analysis is based on individual stats and not team based stats. The stats you're using is based on the overall team performance...using this approach can be very tricky IMO and often reveal information that simply doesn't make much sense. For example, Korver was rated pretty well last year in terms of DRPM; he was rated well above some players who are clearly better on defense.


NBA.com is saying Caruso was on the floor for 28 min total last year when Lou Williams was on the floor. Where are you getting the 3.17 total minutes from? Additionally, show me his excellent fg% that he put up while guarded by Caruso? Cause the NBA.com numbers I gave show Lou’s numbers clearly dipped when Caruso stepped on the floor.


You're looking at total minutes shared on the court together, which is also quite small. 3.17 is the total minutes he was credited for guarding Lou as per NBA.com. There's really no point in discussing fg% given the number of possessions. Can you really decipher anything meaningful from 3 min? You're giving Caruso credit for merely being on the court at the same time as Lou... does this make any sense to you? Sure you can get some information from sharing the court at the same time. However, to make a blanket statement by saying Caruso is the reason Lou struggled is preposterous.

Great point Ballsohard, so we need to use a more extensive research made by you know who? :nod:
here's what he said.Caruso's Weighted Player PTS DIFF by position is as follows:

2018

PG - 272 possessions. PG combined under performed their their season average by -141 points.

2017

PG - 292 possessions. PG combined under performed their their season average by -81 point.

A few patterns are evident:
- He struggled in both years guarding SGs.
- He was very good in both years guarding PGs.
- More than double the time he spent guarding SF in 2018 and he became a negative. He did well guarding SFs on a limited basis.

For context, he spent a good amount of time defending some quality players at the PG spot. Some of which includes Bledsoe, Lillard, Kyrie, D'angelo, Dinwiddie, etc.
Do you know who spent countless hours doing this extensive research? hint hint, look in the mirror. :lol:
tamaraw08
Junior
Posts: 367
And1: 65
Joined: Feb 13, 2019
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#53 » by tamaraw08 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 5:54 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
NBA.com is saying Caruso was on the floor for 28 min total last year when Lou Williams was on the floor. Where are you getting the 3.17 total minutes from? Additionally, show me his excellent fg% that he put up while guarded by Caruso? Cause the NBA.com numbers I gave show Lou’s numbers clearly dipped when Caruso stepped on the floor.


You're looking at total minutes shared on the court together, which is also quite small. 3.17 is the total minutes he was credited for guarding Lou as per NBA.com. There's really no point in discussing fg% given the number of possessions. Can you really decipher anything meaningful from 3 min? You're giving Caruso credit for merely being on the court at the same time as Lou... does this make any sense to you? Sure you can get some information from sharing the court at the same time. However, to make a blanket statement by saying Caruso is the reason Lou struggled is preposterous.

Great point Ballsohard, so we need to use a more extensive research made by you know who? :nod:
here's what he said.Caruso's Weighted Player PTS DIFF by position is as follows:

2018

PG - 272 possessions. PG combined under performed their their season average by -141 points.

2017

PG - 292 possessions. PG combined under performed their their season average by -81 point.

A few patterns are evident:
- He struggled in both years guarding SGs.
- He was very good in both years guarding PGs.
- More than double the time he spent guarding SF in 2018 and he became a negative. He did well guarding SFs on a limited basis.

For context, he spent a good amount of time defending some quality players at the PG spot. Some of which includes Bledsoe, Lillard, Kyrie, D'angelo, Dinwiddie, etc.
Do you know who spent countless hours doing this extensive research? hint hint, look in the mirror. :lol:

oops I forgot to include the link, in case you think I doctored the results.
scroll down to message #4.
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1889028
User avatar
zimpy27
Forum Mod
Forum Mod
Posts: 12,859
And1: 12,062
Joined: Jul 13, 2014

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#54 » by zimpy27 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:01 pm

Ball so hard wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:I can't put a finger on exactly why, but I really don't mind Caruso being a part of the rotation. He's not much better than replacement level, if that. But I appreciate the fact that there's never any question about his effort level and mental engagement. I sure as sh*t respect him more than somebody like Pope, who gets paid enormously more to provide essentially the same impact.

The thing is, he and pretty much the rest of our supporting cast are all going to be inconsistent. It's not like, say, the Clippers, who know exactly what they can count on from Beverley, Williams and Harrell every night. Vogel is just gonna have to come up with answers on a nightly basis as we move forward, and that's going to be a frustrating process.

But again, with somebody like Caruso, you at least know he's going to play hard and generally not make a bunch of dumb mistakes, and there's something to be said for that.


This is pretty much my sentiment. I like Caruso as a solid rotation guy. I just find the constant hype to be a bit ridiculous.


I think being NBA-average at everything on a basketball court is underrated.

That's what Caruso is, he can do everything to an average degree but perhaps is an above-average shooter.

This is the same game that Lowry has and CP3 (though both are elite passes on top). At their base they are all players that have no weakness and can do everything to an average NBA level. That makes them incredibly tough to stop but also very reliable and impactful for a team. With the ball in their hands, they don' have to rush, they don't have to keep the ball away from an area of their game that they can't do, an area that the defense is trying to force them into.
"Let's play some basketball!" - Fergie
Ball so hard
Rookie
Posts: 1,105
And1: 399
Joined: Jul 04, 2017
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#55 » by Ball so hard » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:27 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
NBA.com is saying Caruso was on the floor for 28 min total last year when Lou Williams was on the floor. Where are you getting the 3.17 total minutes from? Additionally, show me his excellent fg% that he put up while guarded by Caruso? Cause the NBA.com numbers I gave show Lou’s numbers clearly dipped when Caruso stepped on the floor.


You're looking at total minutes shared on the court together, which is also quite small. 3.17 is the total minutes he was credited for guarding Lou as per NBA.com. There's really no point in discussing fg% given the number of possessions. Can you really decipher anything meaningful from 3 min? You're giving Caruso credit for merely being on the court at the same time as Lou... does this make any sense to you? Sure you can get some information from sharing the court at the same time. However, to make a blanket statement by saying Caruso is the reason Lou struggled is preposterous.

Great point Ballsohard, so we need to use a more extensive research made by you know who? :nod:
here's what he said.Caruso's Weighted Player PTS DIFF by position is as follows:

2018

PG - 272 possessions. PG combined under performed their their season average by -141 points.

2017

PG - 292 possessions. PG combined under performed their their season average by -81 point.

A few patterns are evident:
- He struggled in both years guarding SGs.
- He was very good in both years guarding PGs.
- More than double the time he spent guarding SF in 2018 and he became a negative. He did well guarding SFs on a limited basis.

For context, he spent a good amount of time defending some quality players at the PG spot. Some of which includes Bledsoe, Lillard, Kyrie, D'angelo, Dinwiddie, etc.
Do you know who spent countless hours doing this extensive research? hint hint, look in the mirror. :lol:


You're not very good at trying to pinpoint one of those gotcha moments. I usually don't take issue with people trying to trap me, but your attempt was cringe-worthy. I see a pattern in your responses... they suggest you might have some reading comprehension issue.

He spent a good amount of time defending some quality players... is this supposed to be a contradiction? I initially said he mostly guarded scrubs; I later admitted this might've been a slight exaggeration. I also went on to say that Caruso did in fact spend a majority of his minutes guarding non starters.

Your attempt at sarcasm is also quite terrible. I never claimed to have spent countless hours nor have I claimed I performed extensive research. I thought I clearly stated the steps I performed... somehow you either misunderstood what I did or didn't bother to read. I didn't do anything sophisticated in my analysis.
Pythagoras
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,813
And1: 1,268
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Location: KC, Mo
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#56 » by Pythagoras » Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:39 pm

Ball so hard wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
You're looking at total minutes shared on the court together, which is also quite small. 3.17 is the total minutes he was credited for guarding Lou as per NBA.com. There's really no point in discussing fg% given the number of possessions. Can you really decipher anything meaningful from 3 min? You're giving Caruso credit for merely being on the court at the same time as Lou... does this make any sense to you? Sure you can get some information from sharing the court at the same time. However, to make a blanket statement by saying Caruso is the reason Lou struggled is preposterous.

Great point Ballsohard, so we need to use a more extensive research made by you know who? :nod:
here's what he said.Caruso's Weighted Player PTS DIFF by position is as follows:

2018

PG - 272 possessions. PG combined under performed their their season average by -141 points.

2017

PG - 292 possessions. PG combined under performed their their season average by -81 point.

A few patterns are evident:
- He struggled in both years guarding SGs.
- He was very good in both years guarding PGs.
- More than double the time he spent guarding SF in 2018 and he became a negative. He did well guarding SFs on a limited basis.

For context, he spent a good amount of time defending some quality players at the PG spot. Some of which includes Bledsoe, Lillard, Kyrie, D'angelo, Dinwiddie, etc.
Do you know who spent countless hours doing this extensive research? hint hint, look in the mirror. :lol:


You're not very good at trying to pinpoint one of those gotcha moments. I usually don't take issue with people trying to trap me, but your attempt was cringe-worthy. I see a pattern in your responses... they suggest you might have some reading comprehension issue.

He spent a good amount of time defending some quality players... is this supposed to be a contradiction? I initially said he mostly guarded scrubs; I later admitted this might've been a slight exaggeration. I also went on to say that Caruso did in fact spend a majority of his minutes guarding non starters.

Your attempt at sarcasm is also quite terrible. I never claimed to have spent countless hours nor have I claimed I performed extensive research. I thought I clearly stated the steps I performed... somehow you either misunderstood what I did or didn't bother to read. I didn't do anything sophisticated in my analysis.


I would say it’s pretty weird that you’re belaboring a point that you’re clearly wrong on, but being an American I’m used to it, seeing as so many of my fellow countrymen/countrywomen do it.
Numbers rule the universe.
Ball so hard
Rookie
Posts: 1,105
And1: 399
Joined: Jul 04, 2017
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#57 » by Ball so hard » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:00 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:Great point Ballsohard, so we need to use a more extensive research made by you know who? :nod:
here's what he said.Caruso's Weighted Player PTS DIFF by position is as follows:

2018

PG - 272 possessions. PG combined under performed their their season average by -141 points.

2017

PG - 292 possessions. PG combined under performed their their season average by -81 point.

A few patterns are evident:
- He struggled in both years guarding SGs.
- He was very good in both years guarding PGs.
- More than double the time he spent guarding SF in 2018 and he became a negative. He did well guarding SFs on a limited basis.

For context, he spent a good amount of time defending some quality players at the PG spot. Some of which includes Bledsoe, Lillard, Kyrie, D'angelo, Dinwiddie, etc.
Do you know who spent countless hours doing this extensive research? hint hint, look in the mirror. :lol:


You're not very good at trying to pinpoint one of those gotcha moments. I usually don't take issue with people trying to trap me, but your attempt was cringe-worthy. I see a pattern in your responses... they suggest you might have some reading comprehension issue.

He spent a good amount of time defending some quality players... is this supposed to be a contradiction? I initially said he mostly guarded scrubs; I later admitted this might've been a slight exaggeration. I also went on to say that Caruso did in fact spend a majority of his minutes guarding non starters.

Your attempt at sarcasm is also quite terrible. I never claimed to have spent countless hours nor have I claimed I performed extensive research. I thought I clearly stated the steps I performed... somehow you either misunderstood what I did or didn't bother to read. I didn't do anything sophisticated in my analysis.


I would say it’s pretty weird that you’re belaboring a point that you’re clearly wrong on, but being an American I’m used to it, seeing as so many of my fellow countrymen/countrywomen do it.


:lol: :lol:

This is truly one for the ages. I have no compunction to admit that i'm wrong when I am. I countered just about everything you said with empirical evidence... you didn't like the evidence so you cavort around and tried to move the goalpost. Facts are an anathema to folks like you so won't bother to waste my time on you. Also being an American, I'm quite aware that 'facts' can sometimes be a dirty word.

You brought up Lou and I proved why you're dead wrong. You then moved the goalpost by saying, ignore the stats and simply watch the games. You can't conveniently use stats only when they suit you... confirmation bias as you called it. Apparently confirmation bias only go in one direction.
Pythagoras
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,813
And1: 1,268
Joined: Aug 15, 2012
Location: KC, Mo
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#58 » by Pythagoras » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:36 pm

Ball so hard wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
You're not very good at trying to pinpoint one of those gotcha moments. I usually don't take issue with people trying to trap me, but your attempt was cringe-worthy. I see a pattern in your responses... they suggest you might have some reading comprehension issue.

He spent a good amount of time defending some quality players... is this supposed to be a contradiction? I initially said he mostly guarded scrubs; I later admitted this might've been a slight exaggeration. I also went on to say that Caruso did in fact spend a majority of his minutes guarding non starters.

Your attempt at sarcasm is also quite terrible. I never claimed to have spent countless hours nor have I claimed I performed extensive research. I thought I clearly stated the steps I performed... somehow you either misunderstood what I did or didn't bother to read. I didn't do anything sophisticated in my analysis.


I would say it’s pretty weird that you’re belaboring a point that you’re clearly wrong on, but being an American I’m used to it, seeing as so many of my fellow countrymen/countrywomen do it.


:lol: :lol:

This is truly one for the ages. I have no compunction to admit that i'm wrong when I am. I countered just about everything you said with empirical evidence... you didn't like the evidence so you cavort around and tried to move the goalpost. Facts are an anathema to folks like you so won't bother to waste my time on you. Also being an American, I'm quite aware that 'facts' can sometimes be a dirty word.

You brought up Lou and I proved why you're dead wrong. You then moved the goalpost by saying, ignore the stats and simply watch the games. You can't conveniently use stats only when they suit you... confirmation bias as you called it. Apparently confirmation bias only go in one direction.


Alright fam, at this point we’re just going to have to agree to disagree on Caruso as we’re likely not going to find common ground on him. And I don’t really care to spend the year bickering with you about him given how good this season has the potential to be. I’d rather just enjoy the season with most everyone here.

Plus, I got to save up my energy for the upcoming Rondo debates... (only half kidding)
Numbers rule the universe.
tamaraw08
Junior
Posts: 367
And1: 65
Joined: Feb 13, 2019
     

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#59 » by tamaraw08 » Wed Oct 30, 2019 10:53 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:I can't put a finger on exactly why, but I really don't mind Caruso being a part of the rotation. He's not much better than replacement level, if that. But I appreciate the fact that there's never any question about his effort level and mental engagement. I sure as sh*t respect him more than somebody like Pope, who gets paid enormously more to provide essentially the same impact.

The thing is, he and pretty much the rest of our supporting cast are all going to be inconsistent. It's not like, say, the Clippers, who know exactly what they can count on from Beverley, Williams and Harrell every night. Vogel is just gonna have to come up with answers on a nightly basis as we move forward, and that's going to be a frustrating process.

But again, with somebody like Caruso, you at least know he's going to play hard and generally not make a bunch of dumb mistakes, and there's something to be said for that.


This is pretty much my sentiment. I like Caruso as a solid rotation guy. I just find the constant hype to be a bit ridiculous.


I think being NBA-average at everything on a basketball court is underrated.

That's what Caruso is, he can do everything to an average degree but perhaps is an above-average shooter.

This is the same game that Lowry has and CP3 (though both are elite passes on top). At their base they are all players that have no weakness and can do everything to an average NBA level. That makes them incredibly tough to stop but also very reliable and impactful for a team. With the ball in their hands, they don' have to rush, they don't have to keep the ball away from an area of their game that they can't do, an area that the defense is trying to force them into.

Caruso is not in the Top 3 among Laker PGs in 3 pt shooting, speed, midrange etc.
He’s not the best passer, setting the tempo, he may not be the best defender too but IMO , he has the least glaring weaknesses among the PGs . About the hype I dont see it, some posters might feel it because they have a clear cut preference on who should play the heavy minutes. Some love Rondo, another like KCP believe it or not.
Landsberger
Head Coach
Posts: 6,959
And1: 1,468
Joined: Jul 04, 2016
 

Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#60 » by Landsberger » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:33 am

What everyone ignores is that the post season isn't about so called advanced stats or league average this or that.... it comes down to experience. We went and got guys who've done it before for a reason. Caruso, even in the best outcomes, is an average player. The facts are that he's never played in a truly meaningful game in his career. The truth is also that his limited experience has been on very poor teams with most of it in situations where the players on the court were fighting for their NBA lives (otherwise known as garbage time). Someone argue how that basis for evaluation translates to a 24 minute a game role in a 7 game series against.... say... Houston? We've gone through a couple coaches, about a dozen first round draft picks and some developing youngsters to get back to this spot. Why would we put the ball in the hands of someone who still needs to prove himself? My guess is that his ceiling with us is a rotational 3rd PG off the bench and maybe more in injury situations.

Return to Los Angeles Lakers