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The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in?

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should Caruso start? is Dwight forgiven?

Poll runs till Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:20 am

yes, Caruso should start.
18
19%
yes, Dwight is aaight.
27
28%
no, Caruso belongs in the G-league
5
5%
no, Dwight is soft
1
1%
i'm in the Carushow and Dwight bandwagon
15
16%
I need a bigger sample size
25
26%
no, I will never jump on the bandwagon
4
4%
 
Total votes: 95

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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#61 » by danfantastk32 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:20 am

Landsberger wrote:What everyone ignores is that the post season isn't about so called advanced stats or league average this or that.... it comes down to experience. We went and got guys who've done it before for a reason. Caruso, even in the best outcomes, is an average player. The facts are that he's never played in a truly meaningful game in his career. The truth is also that his limited experience has been on very poor teams with most of it in situations where the players on the court were fighting for their NBA lives (otherwise known as garbage time). Someone argue how that basis for evaluation translates to a 24 minute a game role in a 7 game series against.... say... Houston? We've gone through a couple coaches, about a dozen first round draft picks and some developing youngsters to get back to this spot. Why would we put the ball in the hands of someone who still needs to prove himself? My guess is that his ceiling with us is a rotational 3rd PG off the bench and maybe more in injury situations.


I think you bring up a good point. But I do think everyone has a right to prove themselves. If Caruso balls out, then why not put him out there in more and more high-leverage situations throughout the season? We signed him right? You gotta think we have some hope for the guy. I don't think he needs to start. I don't think he's there yet. And I do think you bring up a 'reality' that will no doubt come into play. But I wouldn't close the door on a guy. If he keeps improving, and works his way into the starting spot, great.

I don't think we have anyone at the point who is some clear #1. None of them should be starting, IMO. At least Caruso is rising.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#62 » by Landsberger » Thu Oct 31, 2019 3:39 am

danfantastk32 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:What everyone ignores is that the post season isn't about so called advanced stats or league average this or that.... it comes down to experience. We went and got guys who've done it before for a reason. Caruso, even in the best outcomes, is an average player. The facts are that he's never played in a truly meaningful game in his career. The truth is also that his limited experience has been on very poor teams with most of it in situations where the players on the court were fighting for their NBA lives (otherwise known as garbage time). Someone argue how that basis for evaluation translates to a 24 minute a game role in a 7 game series against.... say... Houston? We've gone through a couple coaches, about a dozen first round draft picks and some developing youngsters to get back to this spot. Why would we put the ball in the hands of someone who still needs to prove himself? My guess is that his ceiling with us is a rotational 3rd PG off the bench and maybe more in injury situations.


I think you bring up a good point. But I do think everyone has a right to prove themselves. If Caruso balls out, then why not put him out there in more and more high-leverage situations throughout the season? We signed him right? You gotta think we have some hope for the guy. I don't think he needs to start. I don't think he's there yet. And I do think you bring up a 'reality' that will no doubt come into play. But I wouldn't close the door on a guy. If he keeps improving, and works his way into the starting spot, great.

I don't think we have anyone at the point who is some clear #1. None of them should be starting, IMO. At least Caruso is rising.


I'm not closing the door on the guy but I do think that he's got a fairly high hurdle to clear with guys like LeBron and Davis. Championship teams are just that... teams. Not experiments. We'll have injuries and we'll have opportunities for him to prove himself. Rondo is going to get the benefit of the doubt over a guy like him to start with. He's familiar with Davis and LeBron. He's played in the playoffs a lot and pretty well. He's a veteran and understands the game at a higher level. You can't just sweep that away because some silly advanced stats say he's not performed at a meaningless level with LeBron while on a bad team in chaotic situations.

The guy is being touted as our best option at the one by many here. To me that's something you get a shot at being on a 35 win team... not one looking to win 55+ without showing a lot more than he has to this point.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#63 » by danfantastk32 » Thu Oct 31, 2019 4:35 am

Landsberger wrote: The guy is being touted as our best option at the one by many here. To me that's something you get a shot at being on a 35 win team... not one looking to win 55+ without showing a lot more than he has to this point.


While I agree with you that he's not a legit starting PG (not yet at least) I think some people are speaking more to what the other guys lack. I think I fall in that camp. I don't know that we have much at the 1. I'll buy Rondo's experience trumping the rest for now...but I'm ok with someone clearing that hurdle with better play. There's room for serious improvement at the 1.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#64 » by Spanish_Laker » Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:44 pm

I'm not going to jump in any bandwagon yet, the season is way too long so I will wait until at least December to make claims or join bandwagoners.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#65 » by Dr Aki » Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:17 pm

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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#66 » by Beethoven » Thu Oct 31, 2019 5:42 pm

Me likey dwight
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#67 » by iQon » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:38 pm

I don't believe any of this matters. If AD is truly open to playing the 5, he will play the 5 when Kuz returns.

And while I'm comfortable with Caruso running the offense, he hasn't shown enough to start over Rondo, and he's certainly not outplayed Avery.

Dwight has been great for the team, though. I did not monitor him when he bolted, but he's damn sure grown as a professional.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#68 » by ScHoolBoy B » Thu Oct 31, 2019 8:44 pm

Dr Aki wrote:eat crow thread


I was one of the few that was open to Howard.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#69 » by Landsberger » Thu Oct 31, 2019 11:57 pm

After the first game I was not liking him much. He chased a ton of blocks and didn't come close while letting up offensive rebounds and easy points. I think a lot of people stop watching those plays when he and other "shot blockers" alter the shot and don't follow the ball through the balance of the possession. Very often when he leaves his man to chase a shot his man ends up scoring or getting a board. Howard has never learned to do that in the right situations like other bigs have over time.

That said, his game 2 was fantastic in almost every way. Game 3 was meh... So I think this will sum up Dwight Howard as far as how he will play.

Now after his good game 2 we started to see the childish stuff peek out. Posing for the crowd, running through a player with his hands over his head acting like he didn't do it etc. This is the mental stuff with him that could be a distraction for a team that needs to focus on winning games rather than the tit for tat stuff. I'm hoping to see some humility and what he did in game 2 while choosing when to leave the middle open to chase shots.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#70 » by SlimShady83 » Fri Nov 1, 2019 7:32 am

I want this thread to be kept alive at least until the allstar break maybe entire season

I have a feeling Howard will ask/demand a starter role eventually ... If he does and Coach etc says No I want see his reaction, only then will I make a Judgement on him.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#71 » by snaquille oatmeal » Fri Nov 1, 2019 2:07 pm

SlimShady83 wrote:I want this thread to be kept alive at least until the allstar break maybe entire season

I have a feeling Howard will ask/demand a starter role eventually ... If he does and Coach etc says No I want see his reaction, only then will I make a Judgement on him.

The poll is only good for ten days, I’ll see if I can extend it.

As far as our point guard issues I feel like on a scale of 1 to 10 we have a bunch of 4 and 5s. So I’m not saying AC is a 9 or 10 but he does bring better stability and decent defense so as of now I would give him the starting spot until Rondo comes back.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#72 » by Beethoven » Fri Nov 1, 2019 6:17 pm

Let see how these two do tonite in their first real test of a road game in a hostile environment w a good team.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#73 » by zimpy27 » Sat Nov 2, 2019 6:30 am

Beethoven wrote:Let see how these two do tonite in their first real test of a road game in a hostile environment w a good team.


Both played very well.

Bradley, Green, LeBron, AD, Howard
Caruso (PG/SG), KCP (SG/SF), Kuzma (SF/PF) off the bench

That's the playoff rotation right now.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#74 » by Pythagoras » Sat Nov 2, 2019 10:33 am

Something’s going to have to give with McGee. I think his skill set is better suited off the bench anyway and he seems to be dragging the first unit down. We’re almost never able to get off to a fast start because of him.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#75 » by Landsberger » Sat Nov 2, 2019 2:40 pm

We got good minutes from both.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#76 » by tamaraw08 » Sat Nov 2, 2019 2:59 pm

Pythagoras wrote:Something’s going to have to give with McGee. I think his skill set is better suited off the bench anyway and he seems to be dragging the first unit down. We’re almost never able to get off to a fast start because of him.


I really think JMG would be much better with Rondo next to him coming from the bench. Vogel needs to challenge Jason Kidd to come up with his best offensive sets for the bench players to use like Rondo and JMG using screen rolls and lobs. A rub/curl play with Rondo setting up Daniels and Kuzma from the perimeter. Rondo was most productive when he played with lethal shooter stretch 4 Mirotic, 2 years ago, that they had a +10.4 pts in 476 minutes of playing together. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01/lineups/2018 actually better than a Rondo-AD combo which netted a +3.5.
Kuzma worked hard in the summer to improve his shooting form/follow-through and hopefully he can somewhat fill in the Mirotic role. Daniels would be great being a good threat in the perimeter/floor spacer but he can be liability on defense. enter the 6-5 Caruso. KCP would be tasked to defend the opposing team's best perimeter player. If they can hold their own for 4-6 minutes, then Lebron and AD would be fresh to finish the first half for final 6 mins together with the other starters.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#77 » by Pythagoras » Sat Nov 2, 2019 3:04 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:Something’s going to have to give with McGee. I think his skill set is better suited off the bench anyway and he seems to be dragging the first unit down. We’re almost never able to get off to a fast start because of him.


I really think JMG would be much better with Rondo next to him coming from the bench. Vogel needs to challenge Jason Kidd to come up with his best offensive sets for the bench players to use like Rondo and JMG using screen rolls and lobs. A rub/curl play with Rondo setting up Daniels and Kuzma from the perimeter. Rondo was most productive when he played with lethal shooter stretch 4 Mirotic, 2 years ago, that they had a +10.4 pts in 476 minutes of playing together. https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rondora01/lineups/2018 actually better than a Rondo-AD combo which netted a +3.5.
Kuzma worked hard in the summer to improve his shooting form/follow-through and hopefully he can somewhat fill in the Mirotic role. Daniels would be great being a good threat in the perimeter/floor spacer but he can be liability on defense. enter the 6-5 Caruso. KCP would be tasked to defend the opposing team's best perimeter player. If they can hold their own for 4-6 minutes, then Lebron and AD would be fresh to finish the first half for final 6 mins together with the other starters.


I 100% agree with everything you just said in that post.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#78 » by Landsberger » Sat Nov 2, 2019 3:58 pm

McGee off the bench means Howard in the starting lineup. I think Howard's energy is much better suited for a faster group which will be the bench on this team.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#79 » by tamaraw08 » Sat Nov 2, 2019 4:59 pm

Landsberger wrote:McGee off the bench means Howard in the starting lineup. I think Howard's energy is much better suited for a faster group which will be the bench on this team.

you might be right but I am still concerned with their lack of offense coming from the bench. I saw Dwight barely being productive, catching those lobs from Rondo during the preseason, I don't know if it's the lack of familiarity but I think it's him not having his usual vertical jump unlike before. JMG has shown he can easily catch those lobs for alley-oops.
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Re: The Dwight redemption and Caruso to start @ the 1 bandwagons, you in? 

Post#80 » by Landsberger » Sat Nov 2, 2019 5:03 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:McGee off the bench means Howard in the starting lineup. I think Howard's energy is much better suited for a faster group which will be the bench on this team.

you might be right but I am still concerned with their lack of offense coming from the bench. I saw Dwight barely being productive, catching those lobs from Rondo during the preseason, I don't know if it's the lack of familiarity but I think it's him not having his usual vertical jump unlike before. JMG has shown he can easily catch those lobs for alley-oops.


Hopefully Kuzma fills the slot of scorer off the bench along with maybe a mix of Bron and Davis. Howard in the starting lineup seems to diminish what he can bring IMHO. He's better than most back ups at his position. Is he still better than most starters?

McGee is a guy who I question having a large roll the more I see him quite frankly .

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