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Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob!

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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#21 » by Kilroy » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:52 pm

This team is basically a Klutch Sports platform at this point... I'd really like to give Rob all the credit, but I think that would be incredibly naive or oblivious... Kudos for getting out of the way and letting it happen, maybe. Kudos for not screwing it up.

I don't really care honestly, I'm just glad it happened... I'm still not sure about our coaching staff, but the players are all good pickups...
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#22 » by snaquille oatmeal » Fri Nov 1, 2019 12:39 am

Where is Miles?
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#23 » by mcscotty » Fri Nov 1, 2019 5:47 am

I'm still cautiously optimistic. We've had a tendency to come strong out of the gates in recent years, only to fizzle out after 20-30 games. However, it does feel different this year. Seems sustainable.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#24 » by Kilroy » Fri Nov 1, 2019 6:43 am

I think it feels sustainable because we're winning games in spite of the fact we aren't really playing that well. The stars are having good games but we lack cohesiveness. So it feels like there's actually a lot of room for improvement just with the guys on the court. And we're getting Kuz back...

I think optimism is justified. If we're still playing kind of disjointed ball by Christmas, it might be time to take the rose colored glasses off, but not yet.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#25 » by stan francisco » Fri Nov 1, 2019 2:16 pm

Kilroy wrote:I think it feels sustainable because we're winning games in spite of the fact we aren't really playing that well. The stars are having good games but we lack cohesiveness. So it feels like there's actually a lot of room for improvement just with the guys on the court. And we're getting Kuz back...


Exactly!
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PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#26 » by tamaraw08 » Fri Nov 1, 2019 4:43 pm

93.7 combined PTS/GAME for 7 ex Lakers currently,
Ingram, 27 pts, 5 APG, 8 rebs,
BAll, 12.4 pts, 7.4 assists, 75% FT%
Hart, 13.8 pts, 6 rebs, 40% 3pt%
Wagner, 11 pts, 72% EFG%
Bryant, 14.5pts, 10.3 rebs, 20.0 PER
Zubac, 8.7 pts, 6 rebs, 25.8 PER,
Bonga, 6.3 pts, 4.5 rebs.
I understand BI and BAll were drafted very high but ,Is Rob Pelinka an under rated Talent evaluator? AD has been balling out but it just seems like NO didn't really get a raw deal here. Yes, they are not winning but it's more about them not playing great defense and making mistakes in the 2ND half IMO.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#27 » by tamaraw08 » Fri Nov 1, 2019 4:58 pm

Kilroy wrote:I think it feels sustainable because we're winning games in spite of the fact we aren't really playing that well. The stars are having good games but we lack cohesiveness. So it feels like there's actually a lot of room for improvement just with the guys on the court. And we're getting Kuz back...

I think optimism is justified. If we're still playing kind of disjointed ball by Christmas, it might be time to take the rose colored glasses off, but not yet.


It seems like they lack some fluidity on offense but the bright spot has been their focus on defense, currently 4th in DRTG inspite of the Clippers getting 117.5 ORTG and 58.6 EFG %. I'm not sure if Pelinka should be the bulk of the current success tho. Lebron and AD along with most of the team have been really working hard on defense.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#28 » by valrond1 » Fri Nov 1, 2019 7:44 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:93.7 combined PTS/GAME for 7 ex Lakers currently,
Ingram, 27 pts, 5 APG, 8 rebs,
BAll, 12.4 pts, 7.4 assists, 75% FT%
Hart, 13.8 pts, 6 rebs, 40% 3pt%
Wagner, 11 pts, 72% EFG%
Bryant, 14.5pts, 10.3 rebs, 20.0 PER
Zubac, 8.7 pts, 6 rebs, 25.8 PER,
Bonga, 6.3 pts, 4.5 rebs.
I understand BI and BAll were drafted very high but ,Is Rob Pelinka an under rated Talent evaluator? AD has been balling out but it just seems like NO didn't really get a raw deal here. Yes, they are not winning but it's more about them not playing great defense and making mistakes in the 2ND half IMO.


Yep, they gave away way too much for AD. I had been a loyal Laker fan since 1988, when I first started watching the NBA, but no more. This is just idiotic. I have endured, what, 6-7 years of sucking to get all those high draft picks to turn them into... a 35 y.o. Lebron and A.D.? And Davis could be just a one year rental.

I was always very high on the kids, specially Ingram and Ball. Ingram was steadly improving every year, and Ball is the kind of player you need in a team to win. Plus all the other players you but, AND the future draft picks. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is not how you build a dinasty. The Lakers will have a shot at the title this year, and that's it. If things go south, that's another 10 years of sucking. Hard. I pass.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#29 » by SweetTouch » Fri Nov 1, 2019 10:31 pm

The reason to be optimistic is that a title contender needs to be able to lock in defensively for consecutive possessions

This team has shown to be capable of that

Previous laker teams got away offensively
Stop being so disrespectful.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#30 » by Landsberger » Sat Nov 2, 2019 12:44 am

tamaraw08 wrote:93.7 combined PTS/GAME for 7 ex Lakers currently,
Ingram, 27 pts, 5 APG, 8 rebs,
BAll, 12.4 pts, 7.4 assists, 75% FT%
Hart, 13.8 pts, 6 rebs, 40% 3pt%
Wagner, 11 pts, 72% EFG%
Bryant, 14.5pts, 10.3 rebs, 20.0 PER
Zubac, 8.7 pts, 6 rebs, 25.8 PER,
Bonga, 6.3 pts, 4.5 rebs.
I understand BI and BAll were drafted very high but ,Is Rob Pelinka an under rated Talent evaluator? AD has been balling out but it just seems like NO didn't really get a raw deal here. Yes, they are not winning but it's more about them not playing great defense and making mistakes in the 2ND half IMO.


Isn't this just what our team did last year and the year before? Not winning and no defense and making dumb mistakes in key situations? Seems like somehow that's in NO and not here any longer.

The problem with our drafts is that during that time there is only one true top tier player so far and that's KAT. Even he's not at a point where he can truly change the outcome of a game by himself. The NBA has always been about having that type of guy. None of our your picks will every be that guy. Some will be very productive players and be on winning teams but we had a chance to put 2 of those types of players together. I think the price was high and I hoped we could save Ingram from the Davis trade and move him for more pieces but in the end we had to dump all of them but Kuzma.

The Zubac trade is the only one that didn't make sense from a rebuild standpoint.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#31 » by stan francisco » Sat Nov 2, 2019 4:49 am

Yeah, we gave away a full roster of great talent, that’s how we are contenders now. I didn’t like it, but we’re now contenders. Win now mode. Well done.
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#32 » by Sedale Threatt » Sat Nov 2, 2019 5:11 am

valrond1 wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:93.7 combined PTS/GAME for 7 ex Lakers currently,
Ingram, 27 pts, 5 APG, 8 rebs,
BAll, 12.4 pts, 7.4 assists, 75% FT%
Hart, 13.8 pts, 6 rebs, 40% 3pt%
Wagner, 11 pts, 72% EFG%
Bryant, 14.5pts, 10.3 rebs, 20.0 PER
Zubac, 8.7 pts, 6 rebs, 25.8 PER,
Bonga, 6.3 pts, 4.5 rebs.
I understand BI and BAll were drafted very high but ,Is Rob Pelinka an under rated Talent evaluator? AD has been balling out but it just seems like NO didn't really get a raw deal here. Yes, they are not winning but it's more about them not playing great defense and making mistakes in the 2ND half IMO.


Yep, they gave away way too much for AD. I had been a loyal Laker fan since 1988, when I first started watching the NBA, but no more. This is just idiotic. I have endured, what, 6-7 years of sucking to get all those high draft picks to turn them into... a 35 y.o. Lebron and A.D.? And Davis could be just a one year rental.

I was always very high on the kids, specially Ingram and Ball. Ingram was steadly improving every year, and Ball is the kind of player you need in a team to win. Plus all the other players you but, AND the future draft picks. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is not how you build a dinasty. The Lakers will have a shot at the title this year, and that's it. If things go south, that's another 10 years of sucking. Hard. I pass.


What football team did you similarly abandon to hop on New England's bandwagon?
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#33 » by zimpy27 » Sat Nov 2, 2019 6:21 am

Kilroy wrote:This team is basically a Klutch Sports platform at this point... I'd really like to give Rob all the credit, but I think that would be incredibly naive or oblivious... Kudos for getting out of the way and letting it happen, maybe. Kudos for not screwing it up.

I don't really care honestly, I'm just glad it happened... I'm still not sure about our coaching staff, but the players are all good pickups...


Truthfully, getting out the way can be the hardest thing to do. You need to be both smart enough to realize others know better but also have low enough ego to let go. That's pretty damn rare.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#34 » by valrond1 » Sat Nov 2, 2019 10:54 am

Sedale Threatt wrote:
valrond1 wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:93.7 combined PTS/GAME for 7 ex Lakers currently,
Ingram, 27 pts, 5 APG, 8 rebs,
BAll, 12.4 pts, 7.4 assists, 75% FT%
Hart, 13.8 pts, 6 rebs, 40% 3pt%
Wagner, 11 pts, 72% EFG%
Bryant, 14.5pts, 10.3 rebs, 20.0 PER
Zubac, 8.7 pts, 6 rebs, 25.8 PER,
Bonga, 6.3 pts, 4.5 rebs.
I understand BI and BAll were drafted very high but ,Is Rob Pelinka an under rated Talent evaluator? AD has been balling out but it just seems like NO didn't really get a raw deal here. Yes, they are not winning but it's more about them not playing great defense and making mistakes in the 2ND half IMO.


Yep, they gave away way too much for AD. I had been a loyal Laker fan since 1988, when I first started watching the NBA, but no more. This is just idiotic. I have endured, what, 6-7 years of sucking to get all those high draft picks to turn them into... a 35 y.o. Lebron and A.D.? And Davis could be just a one year rental.

I was always very high on the kids, specially Ingram and Ball. Ingram was steadly improving every year, and Ball is the kind of player you need in a team to win. Plus all the other players you but, AND the future draft picks. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is not how you build a dinasty. The Lakers will have a shot at the title this year, and that's it. If things go south, that's another 10 years of sucking. Hard. I pass.


What football team did you similarly abandon to hop on New England's bandwagon?


None. The only FOOTBALL team I follow is Real Madrid (and Granada CF, which is my local team). As for NFL, I picked Pats cause they are good and have been good for 20 years.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#35 » by tamaraw08 » Sat Nov 2, 2019 2:40 pm

Landsberger wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:93.7 combined PTS/GAME for 7 ex Lakers currently,
Ingram, 27 pts, 5 APG, 8 rebs,
BAll, 12.4 pts, 7.4 assists, 75% FT%
Hart, 13.8 pts, 6 rebs, 40% 3pt%
Wagner, 11 pts, 72% EFG%
Bryant, 14.5pts, 10.3 rebs, 20.0 PER
Zubac, 8.7 pts, 6 rebs, 25.8 PER,
Bonga, 6.3 pts, 4.5 rebs.
I understand BI and BAll were drafted very high but ,Is Rob Pelinka an under rated Talent evaluator? AD has been balling out but it just seems like NO didn't really get a raw deal here. Yes, they are not winning but it's more about them not playing great defense and making mistakes in the 2ND half IMO.


Isn't this just what our team did last year and the year before? Not winning and no defense and making dumb mistakes in key situations? Seems like somehow that's in NO and not here any longer.

The problem with our drafts is that during that time there is only one true top tier player so far and that's KAT. Even he's not at a point where he can truly change the outcome of a game by himself. The NBA has always been about having that type of guy. None of our your picks will every be that guy. Some will be very productive players and be on winning teams but we had a chance to put 2 of those types of players together. I think the price was high and I hoped we could save Ingram from the Davis trade and move him for more pieces but in the end we had to dump all of them but Kuzma.

The Zubac trade is the only one that didn't make sense from a rebuild standpoint.

No defense? basketballref ranked them at 12th best in ORTG last season. NBA.COM ranked them 13th overall
They could have ranked higher if not for injuries and trade rumors that demoralized the young core.
For the month of November, 14 games, Lakers were actually ranked 3rd best at 103.5, December ranked 10th at 106.7 then Lebron got injured in Christmas, followed by Rondo then Ball in January.
Again the trade rumors were like in Feb were the walls came off dropping them to 26th at 116.4 and March ranked 19th at 110.8
https://stats.nba.com/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_NAME*E*&Month=6
The year before, with no trade rumors and pre- Lebron, the team ranked 12th best in defense with Ball's, Kuz,Hart's first year... so I disagree about them not playing defense. Yes, they made rookie mistakes, yes they had their share of issues like health etc.
I brought up these numbers not to insinuate that the Lakers gave up too much but to bring attention about how Rob and esp his staff did to find these talent, esp Thomas Byant, Hart etc which were picked late in the draft.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#36 » by Landsberger » Sat Nov 2, 2019 2:46 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:93.7 combined PTS/GAME for 7 ex Lakers currently,
Ingram, 27 pts, 5 APG, 8 rebs,
BAll, 12.4 pts, 7.4 assists, 75% FT%
Hart, 13.8 pts, 6 rebs, 40% 3pt%
Wagner, 11 pts, 72% EFG%
Bryant, 14.5pts, 10.3 rebs, 20.0 PER
Zubac, 8.7 pts, 6 rebs, 25.8 PER,
Bonga, 6.3 pts, 4.5 rebs.
I understand BI and BAll were drafted very high but ,Is Rob Pelinka an under rated Talent evaluator? AD has been balling out but it just seems like NO didn't really get a raw deal here. Yes, they are not winning but it's more about them not playing great defense and making mistakes in the 2ND half IMO.


Isn't this just what our team did last year and the year before? Not winning and no defense and making dumb mistakes in key situations? Seems like somehow that's in NO and not here any longer.


The problem with our drafts is that during that time there is only one true top tier player so far and that's KAT. Even he's not at a point where he can truly change the outcome of a game by himself. The NBA has always been about having that type of guy. None of our your picks will every be that guy. Some will be very productive players and be on winning teams but we had a chance to put 2 of those types of players together. I think the price was high and I hoped we could save Ingram from the Davis trade and move him for more pieces but in the end we had to dump all of them but Kuzma.

The Zubac trade is the only one that didn't make sense from a rebuild standpoint.

No defense? basketballref ranked them at 12th best in ORTG last season. NBA.COM ranked them 13th overall
They could have ranked higher if not for injuries and trade rumors that demoralized the young core.
For the month of November, 14 games, Lakers were actually ranked 3rd best at 103.5, December ranked 10th at 106.7 then Lebron got injured in Christmas, followed by Rondo then Ball in January.
Again the trade rumors were like in Feb were the walls came off dropping them to 26th at 116.4 and March ranked 19th at 110.8
https://stats.nba.com/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_NAME*E*&Month=6
The year before, with no trade rumors and pre- Lebron, the team ranked 12th best in defense with Ball's, Kuz,Hart's first year... so I disagree about them not playing defense. Yes, they made rookie mistakes, yes they had their share of issues like health etc.
I brought up these numbers not to insinuate that the Lakers gave up too much but to bring attention about how Rob and esp his staff did to find these talent, esp Thomas Byant, Hart etc which were picked late in the draft.


35 and 37 wins... shows the value of the defensive ranking stat doesn’t it. Giving up too much implies that those players were capable of getting us to the spot we’re in now by trading them. I’m firmly not in that camp.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#37 » by Sedale Threatt » Sat Nov 2, 2019 3:16 pm

valrond1 wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
valrond1 wrote:
Yep, they gave away way too much for AD. I had been a loyal Laker fan since 1988, when I first started watching the NBA, but no more. This is just idiotic. I have endured, what, 6-7 years of sucking to get all those high draft picks to turn them into... a 35 y.o. Lebron and A.D.? And Davis could be just a one year rental.

I was always very high on the kids, specially Ingram and Ball. Ingram was steadly improving every year, and Ball is the kind of player you need in a team to win. Plus all the other players you but, AND the future draft picks. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but this is not how you build a dinasty. The Lakers will have a shot at the title this year, and that's it. If things go south, that's another 10 years of sucking. Hard. I pass.


What football team did you similarly abandon to hop on New England's bandwagon?


None. The only FOOTBALL team I follow is Real Madrid (and Granada CF, which is my local team). As for NFL, I picked Pats cause they are good and have been good for 20 years.


lol, even better. Have you got your replacement lined up once Brady retires?
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#38 » by tamaraw08 » Sat Nov 2, 2019 3:17 pm

Landsberger wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
Isn't this just what our team did last year and the year before? Not winning and no defense and making dumb mistakes in key situations? Seems like somehow that's in NO and not here any longer.


The problem with our drafts is that during that time there is only one true top tier player so far and that's KAT. Even he's not at a point where he can truly change the outcome of a game by himself. The NBA has always been about having that type of guy. None of our your picks will every be that guy. Some will be very productive players and be on winning teams but we had a chance to put 2 of those types of players together. I think the price was high and I hoped we could save Ingram from the Davis trade and move him for more pieces but in the end we had to dump all of them but Kuzma.

The Zubac trade is the only one that didn't make sense from a rebuild standpoint.

No defense? basketballref ranked them at 12th best in ORTG last season. NBA.COM ranked them 13th overall
They could have ranked higher if not for injuries and trade rumors that demoralized the young core.
For the month of November, 14 games, Lakers were actually ranked 3rd best at 103.5, December ranked 10th at 106.7 then Lebron got injured in Christmas, followed by Rondo then Ball in January.
Again the trade rumors were like in Feb were the walls came off dropping them to 26th at 116.4 and March ranked 19th at 110.8
https://stats.nba.com/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_NAME*E*&Month=6
The year before, with no trade rumors and pre- Lebron, the team ranked 12th best in defense with Ball's, Kuz,Hart's first year... so I disagree about them not playing defense. Yes, they made rookie mistakes, yes they had their share of issues like health etc.
I brought up these numbers not to insinuate that the Lakers gave up too much but to bring attention about how Rob and esp his staff did to find these talent, esp Thomas Byant, Hart etc which were picked late in the draft.


35 and 37 wins... shows the value of the defensive ranking stat doesn’t it. Giving up too much implies that those players were capable of getting us to the spot we’re in now by trading them. I’m firmly not in that camp.

But IMO, they fail to win more games not bec of defense but bec of other issues like being bottom 3rd in FT% and 3pt shooting AND INJURIES. Both years both BI and Ball missed a ton games, you can add Lebron last year too and again the trade rumors.
Having said that, yes I agree, if they kept the core and not trade for AD, I can't see them contending but not bec of talent but bec of bad fit. I never liked the ball dominant Ingram playing with another ball dominant Lebron and I also don't like the fact last year that if Ball wasn't missing games, he was missing a ton of open shots and FTs....
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#39 » by Landsberger » Sat Nov 2, 2019 3:52 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:No defense? basketballref ranked them at 12th best in ORTG last season. NBA.COM ranked them 13th overall
They could have ranked higher if not for injuries and trade rumors that demoralized the young core.
For the month of November, 14 games, Lakers were actually ranked 3rd best at 103.5, December ranked 10th at 106.7 then Lebron got injured in Christmas, followed by Rondo then Ball in January.
Again the trade rumors were like in Feb were the walls came off dropping them to 26th at 116.4 and March ranked 19th at 110.8
https://stats.nba.com/teams/defense/?sort=DEF_RATING&dir=-1&Season=2018-19&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&CF=TEAM_NAME*E*&Month=6
The year before, with no trade rumors and pre- Lebron, the team ranked 12th best in defense with Ball's, Kuz,Hart's first year... so I disagree about them not playing defense. Yes, they made rookie mistakes, yes they had their share of issues like health etc.
I brought up these numbers not to insinuate that the Lakers gave up too much but to bring attention about how Rob and esp his staff did to find these talent, esp Thomas Byant, Hart etc which were picked late in the draft.


35 and 37 wins... shows the value of the defensive ranking stat doesn’t it. Giving up too much implies that those players were capable of getting us to the spot we’re in now by trading them. I’m firmly not in that camp.

But IMO, they fail to win more games not bec of defense but bec of other issues like being bottom 3rd in FT% and 3pt shooting AND INJURIES. Both years both BI and Ball missed a ton games, you can add Lebron last year too and again the trade rumors.
Having said that, yes I agree, if they kept the core and not trade for AD, I can't see them contending but not bec of talent but bec of bad fit. I never liked the ball dominant Ingram playing with another ball dominant Lebron and I also don't like the fact last year that if Ball wasn't missing games, he was missing a ton of open shots and FTs....


I agree with the fit comment. Ingram seems to be an isolation player in a ball movement league. LeBron can get away with that because he's far more talented.

We'll have to agree to disagree on the "defense". I run quantitative modeling for a living and have done so for nearly 30 years. The so called advanced stats are not predictive and are based on variables that only exist looking rearward(meaning that they can only be quantified after they occur). The data needed to be able to create predictive modeling in something as dynamic as a basketball game is massive. Defensive rating is as flawed as the fundamental statistics it's based on. You can look at the rating and say injuries and offense were the problems.... or you can look at the rating and say the rating is the problem. You have made a statement that implies that the rating is right and something you can't clearly quantify is what's wrong.
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Re: Kudos, front office! Thanks, Rob! 

Post#40 » by stan francisco » Thu Nov 7, 2019 3:24 am

Again, thanks to the FO. For those who didn’t see it after game three, I hope you see it now. They built a legit contender. We are the team to beat this year. Period. And we’re deep...
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2

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