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LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday

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Kilroy
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#21 » by Kilroy » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:17 pm

zimpy27 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:Too much LeBron though... Over the last few games Howard AD and McGee have been much less effective as a group. We need more from Howard and McGee...
KCP heating up is timely... We need Bradly back because apparently, he's our entire defensive identity...

And we need more consistent offense from the rest of our guys to have more flow and balance, and take the weight off AD and LeBron a little.


It really is just LeBron though.

No other team in the top 4 of either conference has a player that when he sits the team starts losing. LeBron is it.


But does that make sense? SHOULD this team automatically start losing when he sits?

I mean he's LeBron... He's at the worst a top 5 player in the league any night of the season... But shouldn't a team with AD on it still be able to win games when he sits?

To me, this smells of poor rotations as much as it does LeBron's greatness... I'm baffled by a lot of the in game adjustments and the combos of players that the coaching staff rolls out there at times...

That said, it also could be indicative of guys who just play much better with LeBron on the court... Whether that's Lebron feeding them or them just feeling more confident when he's out there, who knows...

I'm just saying, this team isn't winning anything if it can't succeed when LeBron sits... They need an identity that allows LeBron to take a night off here and there and still be a formidable team... Because I think we have the talent for that.
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#22 » by stan francisco » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:33 pm

Kilroy wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:Too much LeBron though... Over the last few games Howard AD and McGee have been much less effective as a group. We need more from Howard and McGee...
KCP heating up is timely... We need Bradly back because apparently, he's our entire defensive identity...

And we need more consistent offense from the rest of our guys to have more flow and balance, and take the weight off AD and LeBron a little.


It really is just LeBron though.

No other team in the top 4 of either conference has a player that when he sits the team starts losing. LeBron is it.


But does that make sense? SHOULD this team automatically start losing when he sits?

I mean he's LeBron... He's at the worst a top 5 player in the league any night of the season... But shouldn't a team with AD on it still be able to win games when he sits?

To me, this smells of poor rotations as much as it does LeBron's greatness... I'm baffled by a lot of the in game adjustments and the combos of players that the coaching staff rolls out there at times...

That said, it also could be indicative of guys who just play much better with LeBron on the court... Whether that's Lebron feeding them or them just feeling more confident when he's out there, who knows...

I'm just saying, this team isn't winning anything if it can't succeed when LeBron sits... They need an identity that allows LeBron to take a night off here and there and still be a formidable team... Because I think we have the talent for that.


This is why we should start

Caruso
James
Kuzma
Davis
Howard (Cousins)

So that the second unit can become a unit where Rondo lobs alley oops to JaVale (Howard) all night. Bradley will cause absolute havoc against second units on the defensive end, allow Rondo to play positional defense. On offense, Rondo will cover for Bradley’s playmaking shortcomings.

LeBron is absolutely beasting it. He should be at 32 minutes a game before I can relax a bit, though.

A second unit of

Rondo
Bradley
Green
Kuzma/Cacok/Caroline
McGee/Howard

... is a tough opponent for other benches. Identity: speed and defensive intensity (sans Rondo).
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#23 » by zimpy27 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:57 pm

Kilroy wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:Too much LeBron though... Over the last few games Howard AD and McGee have been much less effective as a group. We need more from Howard and McGee...
KCP heating up is timely... We need Bradly back because apparently, he's our entire defensive identity...

And we need more consistent offense from the rest of our guys to have more flow and balance, and take the weight off AD and LeBron a little.


It really is just LeBron though.

No other team in the top 4 of either conference has a player that when he sits the team starts losing. LeBron is it.


But does that make sense? SHOULD this team automatically start losing when he sits?

I mean he's LeBron... He's at the worst a top 5 player in the league any night of the season... But shouldn't a team with AD on it still be able to win games when he sits?

To me, this smells of poor rotations as much as it does LeBron's greatness... I'm baffled by a lot of the in game adjustments and the combos of players that the coaching staff rolls out there at times...

That said, it also could be indicative of guys who just play much better with LeBron on the court... Whether that's Lebron feeding them or them just feeling more confident when he's out there, who knows...

I'm just saying, this team isn't winning anything if it can't succeed when LeBron sits... They need an identity that allows LeBron to take a night off here and there and still be a formidable team... Because I think we have the talent for that.


Ofcourse it's bad.

Team has a net rating of -6 when he's not playing. The Knicks are -6.8 without LeBron this season. This sts is like adding LeBron to the Knicks and then they become the top team. It's a huge feather in LeBrons MVP cap but it's terrible for the team.

It's due to a poor lineup choice when he sits and probably due to the fact that Rondo, Kuzma and Davis are all terrible fits together and they need to play when he sits to keep their minutes up. Iggy would be an amazing get for this team but ideally they just need to find a good lineup for LeBrons his bench time.

One of the nicest could be one based around Davis. Cook, KCP, Davis, Howard have had really high net rating with either Green or Daniels at SF. I think it'd be an amazing lineup with Iggy.
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#24 » by thebigbird » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:21 pm

Kilroy wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:Too much LeBron though... Over the last few games Howard AD and McGee have been much less effective as a group. We need more from Howard and McGee...
KCP heating up is timely... We need Bradly back because apparently, he's our entire defensive identity...

And we need more consistent offense from the rest of our guys to have more flow and balance, and take the weight off AD and LeBron a little.


It really is just LeBron though.

No other team in the top 4 of either conference has a player that when he sits the team starts losing. LeBron is it.


But does that make sense? SHOULD this team automatically start losing when he sits?

I mean he's LeBron... He's at the worst a top 5 player in the league any night of the season... But shouldn't a team with AD on it still be able to win games when he sits?

To me, this smells of poor rotations as much as it does LeBron's greatness... I'm baffled by a lot of the in game adjustments and the combos of players that the coaching staff rolls out there at times...

That said, it also could be indicative of guys who just play much better with LeBron on the court... Whether that's Lebron feeding them or them just feeling more confident when he's out there, who knows...

I'm just saying, this team isn't winning anything if it can't succeed when LeBron sits... They need an identity that allows LeBron to take a night off here and there and still be a formidable team... Because I think we have the talent for that.

Lebron is great but they need to figure out a way to at least be a net neutral when he sits. There's no reason why they should be a negative when they have a top 5 guy in AD on the court without LeBron. They have the pieces to do it. Its not like last year where they only had one star and then a big drop off.
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#25 » by thebigbird » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:27 pm

stan francisco wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
It really is just LeBron though.

No other team in the top 4 of either conference has a player that when he sits the team starts losing. LeBron is it.


But does that make sense? SHOULD this team automatically start losing when he sits?

I mean he's LeBron... He's at the worst a top 5 player in the league any night of the season... But shouldn't a team with AD on it still be able to win games when he sits?

To me, this smells of poor rotations as much as it does LeBron's greatness... I'm baffled by a lot of the in game adjustments and the combos of players that the coaching staff rolls out there at times...

That said, it also could be indicative of guys who just play much better with LeBron on the court... Whether that's Lebron feeding them or them just feeling more confident when he's out there, who knows...

I'm just saying, this team isn't winning anything if it can't succeed when LeBron sits... They need an identity that allows LeBron to take a night off here and there and still be a formidable team... Because I think we have the talent for that.


This is why we should start

Caruso
James
Kuzma
Davis
Howard (Cousins)

So that the second unit can become a unit where Rondo lobs alley oops to JaVale (Howard) all night. Bradley will cause absolute havoc against second units on the defensive end, allow Rondo to play positional defense. On offense, Rondo will cover for Bradley’s playmaking shortcomings.

LeBron is absolutely beasting it. He should be at 32 minutes a game before I can relax a bit, though.

A second unit of

Rondo
Bradley
Green
Kuzma/Cacok/Caroline
McGee/Howard

... is a tough opponent for other benches. Identity: speed and defensive intensity (sans Rondo).

Why would you take Bradley and Green out of the starting lineup and KCP out of the rotation entirely? The spacing in that starting lineup would be nonexistent with LeBron being the best shooter.
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#26 » by zimpy27 » Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:34 pm

thebigbird wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
It really is just LeBron though.

No other team in the top 4 of either conference has a player that when he sits the team starts losing. LeBron is it.


But does that make sense? SHOULD this team automatically start losing when he sits?

I mean he's LeBron... He's at the worst a top 5 player in the league any night of the season... But shouldn't a team with AD on it still be able to win games when he sits?

To me, this smells of poor rotations as much as it does LeBron's greatness... I'm baffled by a lot of the in game adjustments and the combos of players that the coaching staff rolls out there at times...

That said, it also could be indicative of guys who just play much better with LeBron on the court... Whether that's Lebron feeding them or them just feeling more confident when he's out there, who knows...

I'm just saying, this team isn't winning anything if it can't succeed when LeBron sits... They need an identity that allows LeBron to take a night off here and there and still be a formidable team... Because I think we have the talent for that.

Lebron is great but they need to figure out a way to at least be a net neutral when he sits. There's no reason why they should be a negative when they have a top 5 guy in AD on the court without LeBron. They have the pieces to do it. Its not like last year where they only had one star and then a big drop off.


Image

Anthony Davis has both the best on-court rating off his career and the worst on/off rating of his career.
Just bizarre right now.

Dwight and Davis together is an incredible combo. They should play together when LeBron sit with any 3 of these guards (KCP, Caruso, Bradley, Green, Cook). They should keep it simple.

Right now the most pleasant surprise is that Rondo and LeBron are playing well together.
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#27 » by Ball so hard » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:09 pm

thebigbird wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
But does that make sense? SHOULD this team automatically start losing when he sits?

I mean he's LeBron... He's at the worst a top 5 player in the league any night of the season... But shouldn't a team with AD on it still be able to win games when he sits?

To me, this smells of poor rotations as much as it does LeBron's greatness... I'm baffled by a lot of the in game adjustments and the combos of players that the coaching staff rolls out there at times...

That said, it also could be indicative of guys who just play much better with LeBron on the court... Whether that's Lebron feeding them or them just feeling more confident when he's out there, who knows...

I'm just saying, this team isn't winning anything if it can't succeed when LeBron sits... They need an identity that allows LeBron to take a night off here and there and still be a formidable team... Because I think we have the talent for that.


This is why we should start

Caruso
James
Kuzma
Davis
Howard (Cousins)

So that the second unit can become a unit where Rondo lobs alley oops to JaVale (Howard) all night. Bradley will cause absolute havoc against second units on the defensive end, allow Rondo to play positional defense. On offense, Rondo will cover for Bradley’s playmaking shortcomings.

LeBron is absolutely beasting it. He should be at 32 minutes a game before I can relax a bit, though.

A second unit of

Rondo
Bradley
Green
Kuzma/Cacok/Caroline
McGee/Howard

... is a tough opponent for other benches. Identity: speed and defensive intensity (sans Rondo).

Why would you take Bradley and Green out of the starting lineup and KCP out of the rotation entirely? The spacing in that starting lineup would be nonexistent with LeBron being the best shooter.


Yea that lineup is pure fantasy. He didn't even try to hide to hide his "I hate KCP and Caruso is awesome agenda."
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#28 » by Ball so hard » Wed Nov 27, 2019 3:22 pm

Kilroy wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
Kilroy wrote:Too much LeBron though... Over the last few games Howard AD and McGee have been much less effective as a group. We need more from Howard and McGee...
KCP heating up is timely... We need Bradly back because apparently, he's our entire defensive identity...

And we need more consistent offense from the rest of our guys to have more flow and balance, and take the weight off AD and LeBron a little.


It really is just LeBron though.

No other team in the top 4 of either conference has a player that when he sits the team starts losing. LeBron is it.


But does that make sense? SHOULD this team automatically start losing when he sits?

I mean he's LeBron... He's at the worst a top 5 player in the league any night of the season... But shouldn't a team with AD on it still be able to win games when he sits?

To me, this smells of poor rotations as much as it does LeBron's greatness... I'm baffled by a lot of the in game adjustments and the combos of players that the coaching staff rolls out there at times...

That said, it also could be indicative of guys who just play much better with LeBron on the court... Whether that's Lebron feeding them or them just feeling more confident when he's out there, who knows...

I'm just saying, this team isn't winning anything if it can't succeed when LeBron sits... They need an identity that allows LeBron to take a night off here and there and still be a formidable team... Because I think we have the talent for that.


I think we're all overthinking things a bit here. AD is an excellent talent, but one of his biggest criticism over the years is that he doesn't elevate his team--some call his production empty--and this much hasn't changed. When Lebron sits, nothing comes easy for AD... this is also similar to what happened in New Orleans without Jrue. AD is a guy that needs to be fed; Outside of Lebron, we simply do not have such a player on our roster. Rondo has been decent at setting up AD for easy buckets. The coaching staff is not entirely off the hook either. As many have mentioned, our offense looks very anemic most of the time. We simply need better offensive sets.

However, I disagree with the notion our rotations and in-game adjustments are poor. I think our rotations and in-game adjustments are generally good. Sure there are questionable substitutions at times... however, every coach does this from time to time.
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#29 » by stan francisco » Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:38 pm

Ball so hard wrote:
thebigbird wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
This is why we should start

Caruso
James
Kuzma
Davis
Howard (Cousins)

So that the second unit can become a unit where Rondo lobs alley oops to JaVale (Howard) all night. Bradley will cause absolute havoc against second units on the defensive end, allow Rondo to play positional defense. On offense, Rondo will cover for Bradley’s playmaking shortcomings.

LeBron is absolutely beasting it. He should be at 32 minutes a game before I can relax a bit, though.

A second unit of

Rondo
Bradley
Green
Kuzma/Cacok/Caroline
McGee/Howard

... is a tough opponent for other benches. Identity: speed and defensive intensity (sans Rondo).

Why would you take Bradley and Green out of the starting lineup and KCP out of the rotation entirely? The spacing in that starting lineup would be nonexistent with LeBron being the best shooter.


Yea that lineup is pure fantasy. He didn't even try to hide to hide his "I hate KCP and Caruso is awesome agenda."


I’ve more or less openly said I wanted to trade KCP since his first Laker game. Yes, I want him traded. He shoots 44%? Even better trade value...

I expect both Caruso and Kuzma to realize their potential, will start dropping three bombs soon.
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#30 » by thebigbird » Wed Nov 27, 2019 4:42 pm

stan francisco wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
thebigbird wrote:Why would you take Bradley and Green out of the starting lineup and KCP out of the rotation entirely? The spacing in that starting lineup would be nonexistent with LeBron being the best shooter.


Yea that lineup is pure fantasy. He didn't even try to hide to hide his "I hate KCP and Caruso is awesome agenda."


I’ve more or less openly said I wanted to trade KCP since his first Laker game. Yes, I want him traded. He shoots 44%? Even better trade value...

I expect both Caruso and Kuzma to realize their potential, will start dropping three bombs soon.

KCP is one of the team's best shooters and perimeter defenders. Who are you trading for to replace what he brings?
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#31 » by Kilroy » Wed Nov 27, 2019 6:57 pm

I think it defies logic to say that someone who produces the sheer amount AD does, that his production is empty. Even ignoring all the crucial plays he's made for us this season, and how much he sacrifices his body...

There's this annoying, faulty-logic, narrative on realgm that tries to discount individual performances, based on the W/L column of their teams... It's really pretty idiotic. We need to get better... AD was carrying his team. Ingram is having a tremendous season. Etc... Despite the standings.
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#32 » by zimpy27 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 9:42 pm

Kilroy wrote:I think it defies logic to say that someone who produces the sheer amount AD does, that his production is empty. Even ignoring all the crucial plays he's made for us this season, and how much he sacrifices his body...

There's this annoying, faulty-logic, narrative on realgm that tries to discount individual performances, based on the W/L column of their teams... It's really pretty idiotic. We need to get better... AD was carrying his team. Ingram is having a tremendous season. Etc... Despite the standings.


It can be due to small sample size but it's hard to impact the game without contolling the game as the prime playmaker.

Davis could have the ball go through him every offensive possession that LeBron is on the bench but that won't happen with Rondo on the court still. It would happen with Cook and KCP. That might be why those lineups are so successful.
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#33 » by tamaraw08 » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:24 pm

Ball so hard wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:
It really is just LeBron though.

No other team in the top 4 of either conference has a player that when he sits the team starts losing. LeBron is it.


But does that make sense? SHOULD this team automatically start losing when he sits?

I mean he's LeBron... He's at the worst a top 5 player in the league any night of the season... But shouldn't a team with AD on it still be able to win games when he sits?

To me, this smells of poor rotations as much as it does LeBron's greatness... I'm baffled by a lot of the in game adjustments and the combos of players that the coaching staff rolls out there at times...

That said, it also could be indicative of guys who just play much better with LeBron on the court... Whether that's Lebron feeding them or them just feeling more confident when he's out there, who knows...

I'm just saying, this team isn't winning anything if it can't succeed when LeBron sits... They need an identity that allows LeBron to take a night off here and there and still be a formidable team... Because I think we have the talent for that.


I think we're all overthinking things a bit here. AD is an excellent talent, but one of his biggest criticism over the years is that he doesn't elevate his team--some call his production empty--and this much hasn't changed. When Lebron sits, nothing comes easy for AD... this is also similar to what happened in New Orleans without Jrue. AD is a guy that needs to be fed; Outside of Lebron, we simply do not have such a player on our roster. Rondo has been decent at setting up AD for easy buckets. The coaching staff is not entirely off the hook either. As many have mentioned, our offense looks very anemic most of the time. We simply need better offensive sets.

However, I disagree with the notion our rotations and in-game adjustments are poor. I think our rotations and in-game adjustments are generally good. Sure there are questionable substitutions at times... however, every coach does this from time to time.


Vogel needs to challenge Kidd and Hollins to assemble a bench lineup without Lebron and come up with their best possible sets with options. Whether it's Rondo/Green/JMG/Kuzma etc or whom ever and hold the fort for like 6 minutes.
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#34 » by stan francisco » Wed Nov 27, 2019 11:58 pm

thebigbird wrote:
stan francisco wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
Yea that lineup is pure fantasy. He didn't even try to hide to hide his "I hate KCP and Caruso is awesome agenda."


I’ve more or less openly said I wanted to trade KCP since his first Laker game. Yes, I want him traded. He shoots 44%? Even better trade value...

I expect both Caruso and Kuzma to realize their potential, will start dropping three bombs soon.

KCP is one of the team's best shooters and perimeter defenders. Who are you trading for to replace what he brings?


I want to trade for Van Fleet and Iggy. I want to trade KCP and McGee plus filler to make it happen. It makes us even better.
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: LeBron made some of us eat crow yesterday 

Post#35 » by dAdo dA dEvil » Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:14 am

Kilroy wrote:I think it defies logic to say that someone who produces the sheer amount AD does, that his production is empty. Even ignoring all the crucial plays he's made for us this season, and how much he sacrifices his body...

There's this annoying, faulty-logic, narrative on realgm that tries to discount individual performances, based on the W/L column of their teams... It's really pretty idiotic. We need to get better... AD was carrying his team. Ingram is having a tremendous season. Etc... Despite the standings.


This is because AD is already a Laker and Ingram is not anymore. They now "hate" on AD and starts to appreciate BI. Anyways, both are good player for me.

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