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Lakers progress so far

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Sedale Threatt
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#21 » by Sedale Threatt » Thu Nov 7, 2019 10:11 pm

More on LeBron, he has his best defensive rating as measured at Basketball Reference since 2011-12, and he (and Davis) are both ranked Top 7 in the league. Overall he's got the NBA's second-best VORP behind Giannis. A loooooong way to go, but he's having a great season.
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#22 » by thomas1897 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 2:03 pm

Yes, the Lakers have started off very well. Comparing the start from 2018 the Lakers started off very good. Being optimistic and hope that there are no injuries be patient and see how consistent, resilient and resourceful this Laker team can be. The rival teams in the Western Conference need a little time to adjust to new teammates, injuries and rounding the teams into shape. Take a long look to January, 2020 and see if the Lakers are resilient enough to take on the rigors of the NBA. Last year a collapse happened after Christmas and the season was a calamity. Can the management and coaching staff get the right personnel and do it right this time. Remember this is a 82 regular season not 20 game season.
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#23 » by kobe808lak » Fri Nov 8, 2019 3:06 pm

Spanish_Laker wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
lalalaker wrote:6-1 into the season we start seeing wat this lakers is about.
Of course after game 1 a ranted about running more pick and roll offense which i am satisfied they did it.
Defense is delightful to see as they are really banging hard to stop opponents which helps us get back late in games.
offense gets stagnant at times when its all iso one on one lebron or davis but it is a simply good option to run when we really need buckets. caruso needs to be more aggressive on defense and rim run more on offense. lakers need more set plays when lebron sits cause the ball isnt moving around enough. either make kuzma the focal point of offense or run more pick and roll on high screen for open dish out. We need some blow out games to allow other players to get more touches and rest LBJ and Davis for sure.


The defense is suffocating and I love it. Offensively, it would be nice to have another perimeter player who can consistently create for himself and others. Preferably one who doesn’t suck, like Rondo.

I’m starting to wonder about Kuzma’s fit. He’s such an inconsistent 3 point shooter, and he’s still a very inconsistent defender.

Still, a lot to like about this team.


If Kuzma doesn't provide at least 35% 3pt shooting and average defense, I see him getting shipped before ASB for a PG.


Do you have a PG in mind? Curious to see who may be out there available for a deal..
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#24 » by tamaraw08 » Fri Nov 8, 2019 3:48 pm

kobe808lak wrote:
Spanish_Laker wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
The defense is suffocating and I love it. Offensively, it would be nice to have another perimeter player who can consistently create for himself and others. Preferably one who doesn’t suck, like Rondo.

I’m starting to wonder about Kuzma’s fit. He’s such an inconsistent 3 point shooter, and he’s still a very inconsistent defender.

Still, a lot to like about this team.


If Kuzma doesn't provide at least 35% 3pt shooting and average defense, I see him getting shipped before ASB for a PG.


Do you have a PG in mind? Curious to see who may be out there available for a deal..


I read that eventually CP3 would be traded for a team like Miami or he gets bought out the latter is unlikely.
If Miami gets him, Dragic would be dispensable and might be bought out... enter the Lakers. I don't necessarily like Goran but yes, having another guard playmaker would be nice esp if they don't have to trade a key piece like Kuzma.
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#25 » by Countdown » Fri Nov 8, 2019 7:42 pm

kobe808lak wrote:
Spanish_Laker wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
The defense is suffocating and I love it. Offensively, it would be nice to have another perimeter player who can consistently create for himself and others. Preferably one who doesn’t suck, like Rondo.

I’m starting to wonder about Kuzma’s fit. He’s such an inconsistent 3 point shooter, and he’s still a very inconsistent defender.

Still, a lot to like about this team.


If Kuzma doesn't provide at least 35% 3pt shooting and average defense, I see him getting shipped before ASB for a PG.


Do you have a PG in mind? Curious to see who may be out there available for a deal..


They have Lebron in the primary ball handler role. And as far as I’m concerned, Bradley, Caruso and Cook are playing fantastic in this system.

They don’t necessarily need an all star caliber PG
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#26 » by LAKESHOW » Fri Nov 8, 2019 9:18 pm

Iggy would complete the deal
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#27 » by iamworthy » Fri Nov 8, 2019 10:17 pm

Sedale Threatt wrote:
iamworthy wrote:I actually expect AD to be a little better than this graph portrays. I expect his jumper to improve as the year goes on.


Hopefully. He's five and six pct points below his career average in overall and 3-point shooting, respectively, so there's a lot of room for improvement. He's actually shooting fewer jumpers this year, but I'd really like to see some more focus on the pick-and-roll with LeBron. That should be devastating but it seems merely pretty good, and not nearly frequent enough.

The great thing about Davis is that he can have an average night, and it's still 25/10/3. There are only a few players on that tier and, if LeBron can stay in one piece, we have two of them. And the great thing about LeBron is, while I wouldn't expect him to stay at this ridiculous pace all season (26/8/11 !!!), it's at least a possibility.

Overall, we're playing championship-caliber defense, which is awesome and encouraging, but the offense is pretty mediocre at this point. I don't have much faith in Rondo but there's certainly a chance chis return can give us a little bump. Davis shooting better and Kuzma getting back into playing shape should as well.

My big fear is that, again, our shooting is going to be a huge issue. Green helps, and Bradley's 35 pct is just solid enough where you can give him good minutes and capitalize on his D. But overall we're still pretty poor. I expect a lot of guys to shoot better than they are now, for sure, but we still don't have the consistency or the skill.


I agree with all of your points. Honestly I feel like LeBron and AD are saving the pick n roll for when it matters. That's the only thing I can think of as to why they don't run it more. LeBron is playing the PG spot much better now than he was few games ago. Seemed like he was too comfortable crossing half court and dumping it down to AD... That's changed now. LeBron is on a pay back tour, no telling what this guy is going to do this year. The more I watch this team play the more I think we NEED rondo. Other than LeBron, I don't trust anyone dribbling the ball. I'm just hoping Vogel can sprinkle some defense dust on rondo to get him to put in the effort. But I have to believe there's no way in hell AD or LeBron is going to let rondo sleep on the defensive end. I think we have capable shooters but currently shots are just not going in. I was listening to lakers film room and he made a point to say that w8th the defense that's currently being played, maybe guys are not conditioned well enough to play that well on defense and knock down long jumpers. As conditioning improves maybe guys start to knock down shots.
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#28 » by TheHartBreakKid » Sat Nov 9, 2019 1:47 am

I think we are forcing going to AD sometimes, which is exactly what we should be doing when he can opt out this summer. Come playoff time though, I expect even more Lebron and slightly less AD. I think Lebron is very calculated with how he's using AD, even if it might not be the most efficient play for the team, and as long as we are getting the results, I don't mind it at all in the regular season.


The more important thing is the defense, which has been incredible. I also don't know if we need a traditional pg, but we definitely need more playmaking from the perimeter. That can hopefully be provided by a healthier Kuz,Rondo, or a bought out Iggy, but if not, then we might need to consider a trade.


All that said though, I'm very confident in this team if, and it's a huge if, Lebron/AD/(to a lesser extent Dwight) stay healthy. I think the team as it is assembled right now can compete with any team in the league in a 7 game series.
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#29 » by Dupp » Sat Nov 9, 2019 7:20 am

The defense is great. I don’t think people realise how bad lebrons cavs cast were defensively outside of him. Legit worst defensive team in the nba outside of him. No surprise he’s looked so good on d when he’s got other defenders around him.


For a 7-1 start the lakers have a number of ways they can improve.

- The offense could be real good if they hit their 3s. Shooting is a bit of an issue. It would open things a lot for lebron and AD.

- ADs jumper comes back. He also needs to take better shots than some of the fade away twos. The team need to do a better job of getting him closer to the basket, especially in the fourth.

- Kuzma becomes above average. Can spark the bench or something.

- Depth sucks. Kcp is bad. Magee too. For some of the guys it is consistency and being comfortable in their roles. I think Caruso is a good player.

If lakers could get Iggy they’d be insane. I worry about rondo though, he really sucks.


I guess on the flip of all these upsides is Dwight. Can he be this good all season and in the playoffs?
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#30 » by thebigbird » Sat Nov 9, 2019 3:02 pm

We had a good run boys. Losing streak incoming.

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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#31 » by Sedale Threatt » Sat Nov 9, 2019 5:46 pm

iamworthy wrote:
Sedale Threatt wrote:
iamworthy wrote:I actually expect AD to be a little better than this graph portrays. I expect his jumper to improve as the year goes on.


Hopefully. He's five and six pct points below his career average in overall and 3-point shooting, respectively, so there's a lot of room for improvement. He's actually shooting fewer jumpers this year, but I'd really like to see some more focus on the pick-and-roll with LeBron. That should be devastating but it seems merely pretty good, and not nearly frequent enough.

The great thing about Davis is that he can have an average night, and it's still 25/10/3. There are only a few players on that tier and, if LeBron can stay in one piece, we have two of them. And the great thing about LeBron is, while I wouldn't expect him to stay at this ridiculous pace all season (26/8/11 !!!), it's at least a possibility.

Overall, we're playing championship-caliber defense, which is awesome and encouraging, but the offense is pretty mediocre at this point. I don't have much faith in Rondo but there's certainly a chance chis return can give us a little bump. Davis shooting better and Kuzma getting back into playing shape should as well.

My big fear is that, again, our shooting is going to be a huge issue. Green helps, and Bradley's 35 pct is just solid enough where you can give him good minutes and capitalize on his D. But overall we're still pretty poor. I expect a lot of guys to shoot better than they are now, for sure, but we still don't have the consistency or the skill.


I agree with all of your points. Honestly I feel like LeBron and AD are saving the pick n roll for when it matters. That's the only thing I can think of as to why they don't run it more. LeBron is playing the PG spot much better now than he was few games ago. Seemed like he was too comfortable crossing half court and dumping it down to AD... That's changed now. LeBron is on a pay back tour, no telling what this guy is going to do this year. The more I watch this team play the more I think we NEED rondo. Other than LeBron, I don't trust anyone dribbling the ball. I'm just hoping Vogel can sprinkle some defense dust on rondo to get him to put in the effort. But I have to believe there's no way in hell AD or LeBron is going to let rondo sleep on the defensive end. I think we have capable shooters but currently shots are just not going in. I was listening to lakers film room and he made a point to say that w8th the defense that's currently being played, maybe guys are not conditioned well enough to play that well on defense and knock down long jumpers. As conditioning improves maybe guys start to knock down shots.


Maybe. But you have to also be realistic. Among our top nine or 10 players, Green is really the only proven shooter. Cook and Daniels have good career pcts, but they’re limited so you can’t really count on them for bigger roles. So does Caruso, but he’s only taken something like 100 3s in his career so who knows what he’s capable of? Everybody else is mediocre/inconsistent and while you’d definitely expect us to improve a bit as a whole, that’s just who we are as a team and a big reason we look so underwhelming at times on O. And I have a hard time seeing post-prime Rondo making much of a dent in that.
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#32 » by SweetTouch » Sat Nov 9, 2019 6:43 pm

So you mean to tel me the Kings defense got better when he got veteran players who are willing to defend with him every night and are not youngstas fighting for a sweet contract

Didn’t see this coming

The King has always preferred vets

Wait till we pick up that SF Battier type towards the end of the season
Stop being so disrespectful.
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#33 » by zimpy27 » Sat Nov 9, 2019 8:09 pm

Dupp wrote:The defense is great. I don’t think people realise how bad lebrons cavs cast were defensively outside of him. Legit worst defensive team in the nba outside of him. No surprise he’s looked so good on d when he’s got other defenders around him.


For a 7-1 start the lakers have a number of ways they can improve.

- The offense could be real good if they hit their 3s. Shooting is a bit of an issue. It would open things a lot for lebron and AD.

- ADs jumper comes back. He also needs to take better shots than some of the fade away twos. The team need to do a better job of getting him closer to the basket, especially in the fourth.

- Kuzma becomes above average. Can spark the bench or something.

- Depth sucks. Kcp is bad. Magee too. For some of the guys it is consistency and being comfortable in their roles. I think Caruso is a good player.

If lakers could get Iggy they’d be insane. I worry about rondo though, he really sucks.


I guess on the flip of all these upsides is Dwight. Can he be this good all season and in the playoffs?



The poor outside shooting and the poor shooting of AD are all a consequence of poor spacing.

There is an element of small sample size and Lakers should improve but simply having 3 of the 5 guys on the court being PF/C (LeBron, AD, Kuzma, Howard, McGee) is making it tough. None are great 3 shooters and 3 of them are on the court at pretty much all times. It leaves 2 guards to shoot. Green has been excellent but only KCP works as hard to run on offense and his shooting has been off.

Unless Kuzma becomes a 37% 3 shooter he might have to be moved. He isn't going to see the floor when they best spacing lineup is probably going to have Green, LeBron and Davis as the 3/4/5 and Caruso, Cook, Daniels, Bradley, KCP rotating the 1/2.
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#34 » by stan francisco » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:18 am

Trading Kuzma when he makes $1.9M remains a bad idea no matter what. Who will give you more for that price? He will never again have such a high on-court value per dollar paid no matter how poorly he plays rest of season.

From a ball point of view, I have a strong incling that none of us here will want to trade him five or ten games from now. The fireworks are coming.

He’s what, three games into his season? Had an injury that took him away from full contact and game tempo practice. Our defense is furiously intense even for all the healthy players. They can’t even make their shots. In Kuz I trust!


Caruso. I’m sticking to the prediction that he’s our starting PG before Christmas. His shot will soon start falling, too. That’ll open up lanes for his drive and dish game. And he can finish.

Caruso, Green, LBJ, AD, Howard


It seems the whole team except LeBron need to do some serious cardio to keep up with this defense and also make shots, as noted above.


As someone who always preaches defense I’m beyond excited about what we’ve seen so far. I love the fourth quarter Boa Constrictor defense!!! They’re squeezing the life out of teams. Imagine when the shots fall.


Targets:
Iggy, Van Fleet
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#35 » by stan francisco » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:35 am

And I’m not one bit worried about Rondo. He’ll find a way to contribute. He was playing really well leading up to the injury last year, I thought. He gets too much crap around here, imo. AD loves to play with Rondo. Savvy, intelligent vet!!! Can never have too many in the playoffs. Makes his threes at a higher clip than he gets credit for.
2019-20
PG: James16, Caruso20, Bradley4, Rondo4, Norvell4
SG: Green24, Pope10, Bradley8, Daniels4, Cook2
SF: Kuzma22, James16, THT6, Caroline4
PF: Davis32, Kuzma10, Cacok4, Dudley2
C: McGee22, Howard22, Davis2, Antetokounmpo2
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#36 » by NippySudz » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:03 pm

Spanish_Laker wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
lalalaker wrote:6-1 into the season we start seeing wat this lakers is about.
Of course after game 1 a ranted about running more pick and roll offense which i am satisfied they did it.
Defense is delightful to see as they are really banging hard to stop opponents which helps us get back late in games.
offense gets stagnant at times when its all iso one on one lebron or davis but it is a simply good option to run when we really need buckets. caruso needs to be more aggressive on defense and rim run more on offense. lakers need more set plays when lebron sits cause the ball isnt moving around enough. either make kuzma the focal point of offense or run more pick and roll on high screen for open dish out. We need some blow out games to allow other players to get more touches and rest LBJ and Davis for sure.


The defense is suffocating and I love it. Offensively, it would be nice to have another perimeter player who can consistently create for himself and others. Preferably one who doesn’t suck, like Rondo.

I’m starting to wonder about Kuzma’s fit. He’s such an inconsistent 3 point shooter, and he’s still a very inconsistent defender.

Still, a lot to like about this team.


If Kuzma doesn't provide at least 35% 3pt shooting and average defense, I see him getting shipped before ASB for a PG.
Who can the Lakers get for his price? Kuzma is cheaper than a veterans minimum

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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#37 » by NippySudz » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:12 pm

stan francisco wrote:Trading Kuzma when he makes $1.9M remains a bad idea no matter what. Who will give you more for that price? He will never again have such a high on-court value per dollar paid no matter how poorly he plays rest of season.

From a ball point of view, I have a strong incling that none of us here will want to trade him five or ten games from now. The fireworks are coming.

He’s what, three games into his season? Had an injury that took him away from full contact and game tempo practice. Our defense is furiously intense even for all the healthy players. They can’t even make their shots. In Kuz I trust!


Caruso. I’m sticking to the prediction that he’s our starting PG before Christmas. His shot will soon start falling, too. That’ll open up lanes for his drive and dish game. And he can finish.

Caruso, Green, LBJ, AD, Howard


It seems the whole team except LeBron need to do some serious cardio to keep up with this defense and also make shots, as noted above.


As someone who always preaches defense I’m beyond excited about what we’ve seen so far. I love the fourth quarter Boa Constrictor defense!!! They’re squeezing the life out of teams. Imagine when the shots fall.


Targets:
Iggy, Van Fleet
Ab will remain the starting pg. Caruso will not be able to stay with the westbrooks,dames, currys of the world. AB will.

You're on this kuz train hard. While I agree his performance per dollar is great, kuz himself isn't that very good. You projected him to be the third star. It's still early but even if he returns to last year's form 45% from the field and 30% from three will not cut it fora team with championship aspirations.

Just imagine what Ingram would be doing on this team right now. Dude is having a great year so far.

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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#38 » by LAKESHOW » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:15 pm

Get iggy all problems solved
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#39 » by Kilroy » Sun Nov 10, 2019 6:41 pm

NippySudz wrote:
Spanish_Laker wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
The defense is suffocating and I love it. Offensively, it would be nice to have another perimeter player who can consistently create for himself and others. Preferably one who doesn’t suck, like Rondo.

I’m starting to wonder about Kuzma’s fit. He’s such an inconsistent 3 point shooter, and he’s still a very inconsistent defender.

Still, a lot to like about this team.


If Kuzma doesn't provide at least 35% 3pt shooting and average defense, I see him getting shipped before ASB for a PG.
Who can the Lakers get for his price? Kuzma is cheaper than a veterans minimum

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Kuzma is the piece that helps you trade KCP... He's not the straight trade piece...

Kuzma's value comes from the fact he's on his rookie contract, and teams know, despite his shortcomings, he's going to be worth a whole lot more... So trading for him now, gets them first shot at defining that future.

KCP is overpaid but serviceable in the right role, but you wouldn't trade for him unless you were getting something else you wanted too...

Basically, I think there's only one realistic (you decide how realistic) trade for either KCP or Kuzma... That's both of them for Iggy.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7245361

Can't happen until the Dec 15th tho... And Iggy is way over-paid right now and that's a whole lot to give up for him... And despite all that, he'd pretty much have to threaten to retire to get Memphis to accept that for him.
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Re: Lakers progress so far 

Post#40 » by NippySudz » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:46 pm

Kilroy wrote:
NippySudz wrote:
Spanish_Laker wrote:
If Kuzma doesn't provide at least 35% 3pt shooting and average defense, I see him getting shipped before ASB for a PG.
Who can the Lakers get for his price? Kuzma is cheaper than a veterans minimum

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Kuzma is the piece that helps you trade KCP... He's not the straight trade piece...

Kuzma's value comes from the fact he's on his rookie contract, and teams know, despite his shortcomings, he's going to be worth a whole lot more... So trading for him now, gets them first shot at defining that future.

KCP is overpaid but serviceable in the right role, but you wouldn't trade for him unless you were getting something else you wanted too...

Basically, I think there's only one realistic (you decide how realistic) trade for either KCP or Kuzma... That's both of them for Iggy.

https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7245361

Can't happen until the Dec 15th tho... And Iggy is way over-paid right now and that's a whole lot to give up for him... And despite all that, he'd pretty much have to threaten to retire to get Memphis to accept that for him.

KCP and Rondo have defacto no trade clauses.

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