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Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET

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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#161 » by Pythagoras » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:02 am

Sedale Threatt wrote:
thebigbird wrote:The Lakers just have to go 36-30 the rest of the year to finish with 50 wins. 41-25 will put them at 55 wins. It's been ugly as hell lately, but they're doing exactly what they needed to do by piling up easy wins early in the season so they can coast later on. The next three are all very winnable games too to finish the month.


Yeah, it was frustrating at times but you'll take road wins any way you can get them, especially on b2bs. I just want to see us recapture that defensive ferocity we played with in the first couple of weeks. Even with LeBron and Davis, we just don't have enough firepower to overwhelm the top teams. Defense has to be our calling card.


It was before Rondo returned to the lineup...
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#162 » by evilpimp972 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 8:19 am

Cafu wrote:Rondo is okay. 50% very good and 50% very bad.

Kuz was certainly bothered by the google, fumbling dribbles, being passive out there.
With AB and Caruso out and we have Cook and Daniels stinking up Rondo was the only one outside LBJ and AD trying to make some plays and did something well.
Even had some defensive plays.
We would not win this game without him so you guys should just get off his back for a while.

The defense is slipping since Rondo came back though. And I know he had to play a lot since we have injury but lets not act like he didnt hurt us tonight...bad spacing, meh shooting, terrible defense
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#163 » by LAKESHOW » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:27 am

Like.i said before, hes got giant bruises on his forearms. Zero calls. He needs to lead the team, but wont make it, if they allow him to get beat up like that.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#164 » by Spanish_Laker » Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:44 am

Defense has been an issue the last 3 games, we need to get back that defensive identity. We can't let scrubs like Crowder, Martin, Brooks, etc go off for 3 around 50%. Officiating was also terrible yesterday, but I'll always take the W.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#165 » by Cafu » Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:35 pm

evilpimp972 wrote:
Cafu wrote:Rondo is okay. 50% very good and 50% very bad.

Kuz was certainly bothered by the google, fumbling dribbles, being passive out there.
With AB and Caruso out and we have Cook and Daniels stinking up Rondo was the only one outside LBJ and AD trying to make some plays and did something well.
Even had some defensive plays.
We would not win this game without him so you guys should just get off his back for a while.

The defense is slipping since Rondo came back though. And I know he had to play a lot since we have injury but lets not act like he didnt hurt us tonight...bad spacing, meh shooting, terrible defense


You can’t put all that defensive problems on Rondo though.
Rondo is either bad or good this year but until now he is still somewhat plus net rating player.
This game is just the same, he had bad moments and good moments and Vogel clearly thought Rondo would help to put him there to close the game.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#166 » by Pythagoras » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:42 pm

Cafu wrote:
evilpimp972 wrote:
Cafu wrote:Rondo is okay. 50% very good and 50% very bad.

Kuz was certainly bothered by the google, fumbling dribbles, being passive out there.
With AB and Caruso out and we have Cook and Daniels stinking up Rondo was the only one outside LBJ and AD trying to make some plays and did something well.
Even had some defensive plays.
We would not win this game without him so you guys should just get off his back for a while.

The defense is slipping since Rondo came back though. And I know he had to play a lot since we have injury but lets not act like he didnt hurt us tonight...bad spacing, meh shooting, terrible defense


You can’t put all that defensive problems on Rondo though.
Rondo is either bad or good this year but until now he is still somewhat plus net rating player.
This game is just the same, he had bad moments and good moments and Vogel clearly thought Rondo would help to put him there to close the game.


90% of the defensive related issues are on Rondo. It’s not just that he’s a traffic cone out there, it’s also that he’s basically replaced Bradley, who was playing outstanding defense. It would be similar to replacing AD with Kanter.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#167 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:42 pm

Cafu wrote:
evilpimp972 wrote:
Cafu wrote:Rondo is okay. 50% very good and 50% very bad.

Kuz was certainly bothered by the google, fumbling dribbles, being passive out there.
With AB and Caruso out and we have Cook and Daniels stinking up Rondo was the only one outside LBJ and AD trying to make some plays and did something well.
Even had some defensive plays.
We would not win this game without him so you guys should just get off his back for a while.

The defense is slipping since Rondo came back though. And I know he had to play a lot since we have injury but lets not act like he didnt hurt us tonight...bad spacing, meh shooting, terrible defense


You can’t put all that defensive problems on Rondo though.
Rondo is either bad or good this year but until now he is still somewhat plus net rating player.
This game is just the same, he had bad moments and good moments and Vogel clearly thought Rondo would help to put him there to close the game.

He didn't help to close the game though, and as soon as Vogel took him out the Lakers went on an 8-0 run. Rondo should only be closing games out if every other player on the team is either injured or fouled out.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#168 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:44 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
Cafu wrote:
evilpimp972 wrote:The defense is slipping since Rondo came back though. And I know he had to play a lot since we have injury but lets not act like he didnt hurt us tonight...bad spacing, meh shooting, terrible defense


You can’t put all that defensive problems on Rondo though.
Rondo is either bad or good this year but until now he is still somewhat plus net rating player.
This game is just the same, he had bad moments and good moments and Vogel clearly thought Rondo would help to put him there to close the game.


90% of the defensive related issues are on Rondo. It’s not just that he’s a traffic cone out there, it’s also that he’s basically replaced Bradley, who was playing outstanding defense. It would be similar to replacing AD with Kanter.

Read on Twitter
?s=21

The whole idea of having Rondo is that he can be the "floor general" while LeBron sits. But, he has been a disaster running the second unit.

LeBron comes out around the 4 minute mark in the first quarter. Rondo is playing 4.6 minutes per first quarter, so it's basically him without LeBron on the court. He has a 95.5 offensive rating and a 123.9 defensive rating. That's good for a -28.4 net rating.

He's also a negative when he runs the show with lebron on the bench in third quarters. He has a -0.3 net rating compared to the 14.1 net rating in third quarters with him off the court.

The only time he's not a complete disaster is when he's playing with LeBron, and the Rondo + LeBron lineups are not good lineups. Rondo has been a disaster. He has also been a disaster when playing with Anthony Davis, which was pretty much the whole point of signing Rondo. They're a -11 in 67 minutes together. If Rondo can't run the second unit then what is the point of him playing at all?
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#169 » by Cafu » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:15 pm

thebigbird wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
Cafu wrote:
You can’t put all that defensive problems on Rondo though.
Rondo is either bad or good this year but until now he is still somewhat plus net rating player.
This game is just the same, he had bad moments and good moments and Vogel clearly thought Rondo would help to put him there to close the game.


90% of the defensive related issues are on Rondo. It’s not just that he’s a traffic cone out there, it’s also that he’s basically replaced Bradley, who was playing outstanding defense. It would be similar to replacing AD with Kanter.

Read on Twitter
?s=21


AB going down is playing a large part to it because he is the 1st to defense the point of attack.
Vogel was playing Rondo, Cook and Kuz 3 bad defensive players leads to the defense breaking down also etc
The defense is a the team effort and I think it should not fall on only Rondo.


Look, I know that you guys don’t like Rondo, I am not a fan of him either but since KCP shooting well Rondo is becoming a sole whipping boy and I think it is just not fair. He is not that bad and doing smt good since coming back too.
How about we as fans looking the players in a more fair view.
Since we are at it So should we put 90% of improvements of the offense on Rondo too?
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#170 » by Landsberger » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:21 pm

TylersLakers wrote:
Kilroy wrote:Rewatching this... The refs have completely swallowed their whistles around LeBron... Don't know what he did, but they hate him now.


I didn't see the game but 39 minutes? 27 shot attempts? ZERO.. free throws?

That's a joke, especially considering how much that guy lives in the paint.


He could have had a few FT's but it's a little misleading... He settled for some pretty weak shots because he was tired IMHO. The Refs gave us plenty of FT's in the game. It isn't like we didn't out shoot Memphis at the line by a large margin.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#171 » by Cafu » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:23 pm

thebigbird wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
Cafu wrote:
You can’t put all that defensive problems on Rondo though.
Rondo is either bad or good this year but until now he is still somewhat plus net rating player.
This game is just the same, he had bad moments and good moments and Vogel clearly thought Rondo would help to put him there to close the game.


90% of the defensive related issues are on Rondo. It’s not just that he’s a traffic cone out there, it’s also that he’s basically replaced Bradley, who was playing outstanding defense. It would be similar to replacing AD with Kanter.

Read on Twitter
?s=21

The whole idea of having Rondo is that he can be the "floor general" while LeBron sits. But, he has been a disaster running the second unit.

LeBron comes out around the 4 minute mark in the first quarter. Rondo is playing 4.6 minutes per first quarter, so it's basically him without LeBron on the court. He has a 95.5 offensive rating and a 123.9 defensive rating. That's good for a -28.4 net rating.

He's also a negative when he runs the show with lebron on the bench in third quarters. He has a -0.3 net rating compared to the 14.1 net rating in third quarters with him off the court.

The only time he's not a complete disaster is when he's playing with LeBron, and the Rondo + LeBron lineups are not good lineups. Rondo has been a disaster. He has also been a disaster when playing with Anthony Davis, which was pretty much the whole point of signing Rondo. They're a -11 in 67 minutes together. If Rondo can't run the second unit then what is the point of him playing at all?


For the season Rondo is having a defensive rating of 105, miles year ahead of last season 113 and a plus 2.1 net rating too.
So I don’t know, he is not the answer to our problems but not the disaster you guys making it to be.

He is playing with Lebron because we have no one to share the loads of bringing the ball up, setting the offense etc with Lebron and maybe that’s why Vogel playing him with Lebron often.
Hey he was having minus net rating playing with Lebron last season so this season is surely an improvement lol
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#172 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:25 pm

Cafu wrote:
thebigbird wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
90% of the defensive related issues are on Rondo. It’s not just that he’s a traffic cone out there, it’s also that he’s basically replaced Bradley, who was playing outstanding defense. It would be similar to replacing AD with Kanter.

Read on Twitter
?s=21


AB going down is playing a large part to it because he is the 1st to defense the point of attack.
Vogel was playing Rondo, Cook and Kuz 3 bad defensive players leads to the defense breaking down also etc
The defense is a the team effort and I think it should not fall on only Rondo.


Look, I know that you guys don’t like Rondo, I am not a fan of him either but since KCP shooting well Rondo is becoming a sole whipping boy and I think it is just not fair. He is not that bad and doing smt good since coming back too.
How about we as fans looking the players in a more fair view.
Since we are at it So should we put 90% of improvements of the offense on Rondo too?

Rondo is the whipping boy because the team is much better without him than with him. The whole point of having Rondo is to have someone to run the second unit when LeBron is on the bench, but the only way that Rondo is anything close to a positive player is when he's playing with LeBron. And having a positive rating with LeBron isn't anything special because LeBron has a + rating with literally every player he's played with this year. So what's the point of playing him? He can't shoot, he can't space the floor, he can't play defense, and he can't run the team with LeBron on the bench. He has an over -15 net rating when he plays without LeBron, and his skill set (to the extent he still has any skills) isn't needed when he plays with LeBron.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#173 » by Landsberger » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:30 pm

Defensive rating is a poor stat IMHO. If you watch last nights have we gave up very low percentage shots (3 pointers) to a team that shoots 3 pointers at nearly the lowest % in the league... at one point they hit 10 in a row. That's not on Rondo and it's not because Bradley and Caruso didn't play. It's because Memphis had a hot game shooting 3's. A large portion of them were by front court players anyway. The way the stat is touted you'd think that defense has an advantage over offense in the game of basketball. A stat, even a poor one like defensive rating, in exclusion of relative dynamic variables is useless.

The offense was a large part of the problem last night with Davis fumbling several passes away in the paint, Bron settling for jumpers with open lanes in front of him and not getting Kuzma involved in any plays going to the hoop. KCP hit some shots and Rondo filled in the some gaps offensively as well.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#174 » by Rakkasan » Sun Nov 24, 2019 2:56 pm

If the Lakers don't get a quality point guard, or two way wing 3rd option they will not make it to the conference finals. If they were smart they would do whatever is necessary to get CP3 in their lineup with LeBron and AD.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#175 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:02 pm

Landsberger wrote:Defensive rating is a poor stat IMHO. If you watch last nights have we gave up very low percentage shots (3 pointers) to a team that shoots 3 pointers at nearly the lowest % in the league... at one point they hit 10 in a row. That's not on Rondo and it's not because Bradley and Caruso didn't play. It's because Memphis had a hot game shooting 3's. A large portion of them were by front court players anyway. The way the stat is touted you'd think that defense has an advantage over offense in the game of basketball. A stat, even a poor one like defensive rating, in exclusion of relative dynamic variables is useless.

The offense was a large part of the problem last night with Davis fumbling several passes away in the paint, Bron settling for jumpers with open lanes in front of him and not getting Kuzma involved in any plays going to the hoop. KCP hit some shots and Rondo filled in the some gaps offensively as well.

Is there a stat that portrays Rondo negatively that you don't think is a bad stat? I don't understand why he's the hill you're dying on when he very clearly makes the team worse. He was signed to run the second unit when LeBron sits, and so far he is running the second unit into the ground on both offense and defense.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#176 » by Pythagoras » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:20 pm

thebigbird wrote:
Landsberger wrote:Defensive rating is a poor stat IMHO. If you watch last nights have we gave up very low percentage shots (3 pointers) to a team that shoots 3 pointers at nearly the lowest % in the league... at one point they hit 10 in a row. That's not on Rondo and it's not because Bradley and Caruso didn't play. It's because Memphis had a hot game shooting 3's. A large portion of them were by front court players anyway. The way the stat is touted you'd think that defense has an advantage over offense in the game of basketball. A stat, even a poor one like defensive rating, in exclusion of relative dynamic variables is useless.

The offense was a large part of the problem last night with Davis fumbling several passes away in the paint, Bron settling for jumpers with open lanes in front of him and not getting Kuzma involved in any plays going to the hoop. KCP hit some shots and Rondo filled in the some gaps offensively as well.

Is there a stat that portrays Rondo negatively that you don't think is a bad stat? I don't understand why he's the hill you're dying on when he very clearly makes the team worse. He was signed to run the second unit when LeBron sits, and so far he is running the second unit into the ground on both offense and defense.


I mean, seriously... Just watch him play (or not play) defense. He’s awful and doesn’t stay in front of anyone. People harp on Kuzma’s defense, understandably so, but a lot of Kuzma’s issues are poor instincts. He actually does give effort on that end. A lot of Rondo’s issues are just related to lazy ass effort.

Don’t even get me started on him offensively. He’s a ball dominant guard who can’t score efficiently and is dependent on others to create space for him. It’s a terrible combination.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#177 » by LAKESHOW » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:34 pm

And theres my point. Andre Iguodala. Can bring the ball up. Can pass and run offense. Can defend and has a solid defensive reputation. Amd can shoot. No one is sagging off of Iggy.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#178 » by Landsberger » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:38 pm

thebigbird wrote:
Landsberger wrote:Defensive rating is a poor stat IMHO. If you watch last nights have we gave up very low percentage shots (3 pointers) to a team that shoots 3 pointers at nearly the lowest % in the league... at one point they hit 10 in a row. That's not on Rondo and it's not because Bradley and Caruso didn't play. It's because Memphis had a hot game shooting 3's. A large portion of them were by front court players anyway. The way the stat is touted you'd think that defense has an advantage over offense in the game of basketball. A stat, even a poor one like defensive rating, in exclusion of relative dynamic variables is useless.

The offense was a large part of the problem last night with Davis fumbling several passes away in the paint, Bron settling for jumpers with open lanes in front of him and not getting Kuzma involved in any plays going to the hoop. KCP hit some shots and Rondo filled in the some gaps offensively as well.

Is there a stat that portrays Rondo negatively that you don't think is a bad stat? I don't understand why he's the hill you're dying on when he very clearly makes the team worse. He was signed to run the second unit when LeBron sits, and so far he is running the second unit into the ground on both offense and defense.


I'm not dying on any hill here dude. A quick review of your posts over the last month shows you're the one with an obsession. I do statistical analysis and quantitative modeling for a living. I think the so called advanced stats in sports are largely click bait for fans. It's what they were designed to do btw.

Is there a situation or a part of the game where you think a player we signed, Davis wanted here and the Coaching staff plays regularly is valuable? That's a valid question for someone who seems to be obsessed with smugly pointing out only Rondo's inadequacies while ignoring anything and everything else.

For gods sakes we played Jarred Dudley in meaningful minutes in this game and the focus in on Rondo. That tells us a lot with the Rondo should die group. At least move on to Kuzma. You guys have been quiet on him for a few hours.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#179 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:51 pm

Landsberger wrote:
thebigbird wrote:
Landsberger wrote:Defensive rating is a poor stat IMHO. If you watch last nights have we gave up very low percentage shots (3 pointers) to a team that shoots 3 pointers at nearly the lowest % in the league... at one point they hit 10 in a row. That's not on Rondo and it's not because Bradley and Caruso didn't play. It's because Memphis had a hot game shooting 3's. A large portion of them were by front court players anyway. The way the stat is touted you'd think that defense has an advantage over offense in the game of basketball. A stat, even a poor one like defensive rating, in exclusion of relative dynamic variables is useless.

The offense was a large part of the problem last night with Davis fumbling several passes away in the paint, Bron settling for jumpers with open lanes in front of him and not getting Kuzma involved in any plays going to the hoop. KCP hit some shots and Rondo filled in the some gaps offensively as well.

Is there a stat that portrays Rondo negatively that you don't think is a bad stat? I don't understand why he's the hill you're dying on when he very clearly makes the team worse. He was signed to run the second unit when LeBron sits, and so far he is running the second unit into the ground on both offense and defense.


I'm not dying on any hill here dude. A quick review of your posts over the last month shows you're the one with an obsession. I do statistical analysis and quantitative modeling for a living. I think the so called advanced stats in sports are largely click bait for fans. It's what they were designed to do btw.

Is there a situation or a part of the game where you think a player we signed, Davis wanted here and the Coaching staff plays regularly is valuable? That's a valid question for someone who seems to be obsessed with smugly pointing out only Rondo's inadequacies while ignoring anything and everything else.

For gods sakes we played Jarred Dudley in meaningful minutes in this game and the focus in on Rondo. That tells us a lot with the Rondo should die group. At least move on to Kuzma. You guys have been quiet on him for a few hours.

Dudley played 7 minutes and took 2 shots. That's in no way comparable to someone who played 26 minutes and took 15 shots (second most on the team). I would much rather play Dudley than Rondo because at least Dudley plays within himself. Teams leave rondo wide open because he can't shoot and he takes the bait almost every single time.

And the only place Rondo is valuable is seated on the bench. He almost blew the game Friday night by behaving like a petulant child and refusing to leave the court after getting ejected. You swept that under the rug. I thought Rondo could be valuable leading the second unit while LeBron is on the bench, but he's been dreadful in that role.

I don't care if AD likes him or not. The easiest way to keep AD is to go deep in the playoffs, and that's never going to happen with rondo getting 25+ minutes a game and playing in crunch time.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#180 » by Pythagoras » Sun Nov 24, 2019 3:57 pm

Rakkasan wrote:If the Lakers don't get a quality point guard, or two way wing 3rd option they will not make it to the conference finals. If they were smart they would do whatever is necessary to get CP3 in their lineup with LeBron and AD.


There is absolutely no path to the Lakers finding 40 mil in salary to match a trade for CP3. I’d love to have him cause a healthy CP3, Lebron, and AD basically guarantees the chip this year, it’s just not possible.
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