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Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET

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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#181 » by ROballer » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:00 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
Rakkasan wrote:If the Lakers don't get a quality point guard, or two way wing 3rd option they will not make it to the conference finals. If they were smart they would do whatever is necessary to get CP3 in their lineup with LeBron and AD.


There is absolutely no path to the Lakers finding 40 mil in salary to match a trade from CP3. I’d love to have him cause a healthy CP3, Lebron, and AD basically guarantees the chip this year, it’s just not possible.


Check the trade and transactions thread.

We can't do it on our own, yes...but it can be done with a 3rd team.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#182 » by Pythagoras » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:09 pm

ROballer wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
Rakkasan wrote:If the Lakers don't get a quality point guard, or two way wing 3rd option they will not make it to the conference finals. If they were smart they would do whatever is necessary to get CP3 in their lineup with LeBron and AD.


There is absolutely no path to the Lakers finding 40 mil in salary to match a trade from CP3. I’d love to have him cause a healthy CP3, Lebron, and AD basically guarantees the chip this year, it’s just not possible.


Check the trade and transactions thread.

We can't do it on our own, yes...but it can be done with a 3rd team.


Hmm. I didn’t realize that. If that’s the case we should be exploring that. Like now...
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#183 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:11 pm

Pythagoras wrote:
ROballer wrote:
Pythagoras wrote:
There is absolutely no path to the Lakers finding 40 mil in salary to match a trade from CP3. I’d love to have him cause a healthy CP3, Lebron, and AD basically guarantees the chip this year, it’s just not possible.


Check the trade and transactions thread.

We can't do it on our own, yes...but it can be done with a 3rd team.


Hmm. I didn’t realize that. If that’s the case we should be exploring that. Like now...

The Lakers would win the title this year if they got CP3. Just put him in a hyperbolic chamber until the playoffs so he's healthy, lol. If there's a way to make that trade then you have to do it.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#184 » by iamworthy » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:23 pm

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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#185 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:32 pm

We all want the Lakers to win a title this year, right? The biggest problem with LeBron's past teams has been that they crater whenever he sits. You used to be able to remedy that a bit in the playoffs by playing him 40+ minutes every game, but you can't count on him being able to do that this year at 35. They have to be able to play without LeBron.

This year the Lakers have a +12.9 net rating with LeBron on the floor and a -6.9 net rating with LeBron off the floor. The Lakers have a positive net rating when any other Laker sits on the bench.

Vogel staggers LeBron and AD to the point that there almost never is a time in the game where both are on the bench at the same time. AD is a top 10 player in the NBA (on the low end) and quite possibly the best defender in the NBA. There is no reason why they shouldn't have a positive net rating when he plays and LeBron is on the bench. The Lakers need to make a trade to find a guard to run the second unit when LeBron's on the bench.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#186 » by Pythagoras » Sun Nov 24, 2019 4:48 pm

thebigbird wrote:We all want the Lakers to win a title this year, right? The biggest problem with LeBron's past teams has been that they crater whenever he sits. You used to be able to remedy that a bit in the playoffs by playing him 40+ minutes every game, but you can't count on him being able to do that this year at 35. They have to be able to play without LeBron.

This year the Lakers have a +12.9 net rating with LeBron on the floor and a -6.9 net rating with LeBron off the floor. The Lakers have a positive net rating when any other Laker sits on the bench.

Vogel staggers LeBron and AD to the point that there almost never is a time in the game where both are on the bench at the same time. AD is a top 10 player in the NBA (on the low end) and quite possibly the best defender in the NBA. There is no reason why they shouldn't have a positive net rating when he plays and LeBron is on the bench. The Lakers need to make a trade to find a guard to run the second unit when LeBron's on the bench.


This. CP3, Teague, Dragic... Any of those guys could fill the void the Lakers need
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#187 » by Landsberger » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:14 pm

thebigbird wrote:I don't care if AD likes him or not. The easiest way to keep AD is to go deep in the playoffs, and that's never going to happen with rondo getting 25+ minutes a game and playing in crunch time.


Is there an advanced stat for that?
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#188 » by Landsberger » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:18 pm

thebigbird wrote:We all want the Lakers to win a title this year, right? The biggest problem with LeBron's past teams has been that they crater whenever he sits. You used to be able to remedy that a bit in the playoffs by playing him 40+ minutes every game, but you can't count on him being able to do that this year at 35. They have to be able to play without LeBron.

This year the Lakers have a +12.9 net rating with LeBron on the floor and a -6.9 net rating with LeBron off the floor. The Lakers have a positive net rating when any other Laker sits on the bench.

Vogel staggers LeBron and AD to the point that there almost never is a time in the game where both are on the bench at the same time. AD is a top 10 player in the NBA (on the low end) and quite possibly the best defender in the NBA. There is no reason why they shouldn't have a positive net rating when he plays and LeBron is on the bench. The Lakers need to make a trade to find a guard to run the second unit when LeBron's on the bench.


The Lakers are 14-2 with 12 new players from last year's team not following your divine guidance. I'll take the experts on the sidelines and in the front office over a few so called advanced stats taken out of context and erroneously used as predictive of future game outcomes.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#189 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:27 pm

Landsberger wrote:
thebigbird wrote:We all want the Lakers to win a title this year, right? The biggest problem with LeBron's past teams has been that they crater whenever he sits. You used to be able to remedy that a bit in the playoffs by playing him 40+ minutes every game, but you can't count on him being able to do that this year at 35. They have to be able to play without LeBron.

This year the Lakers have a +12.9 net rating with LeBron on the floor and a -6.9 net rating with LeBron off the floor. The Lakers have a positive net rating when any other Laker sits on the bench.

Vogel staggers LeBron and AD to the point that there almost never is a time in the game where both are on the bench at the same time. AD is a top 10 player in the NBA (on the low end) and quite possibly the best defender in the NBA. There is no reason why they shouldn't have a positive net rating when he plays and LeBron is on the bench. The Lakers need to make a trade to find a guard to run the second unit when LeBron's on the bench.


The Lakers are 14-2 with 12 new players from last year's team not following your divine guidance. I'll take the experts on the sidelines and in the front office over a few so called advanced stats taken out of context and erroneously used as predictive of future game outcomes.

The "expert on the sideline" said "Rajon’s statistics are not measured on the stat sheet, it’s measured in swag," so forgive me for not having complete faith in him.

Rondo isn't getting minutes because of his play, he's getting minutes because of locker room politics. They don't want to make AD mad, and they know that Rondo will become a locker room cancer if he doesn't get the role he wants like he did in Dallas, Sacramento, and Chicago. So they're playing him to the detriment of the team.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#190 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:30 pm

Landsberger wrote:
TylersLakers wrote:
Kilroy wrote:Rewatching this... The refs have completely swallowed their whistles around LeBron... Don't know what he did, but they hate him now.


I didn't see the game but 39 minutes? 27 shot attempts? ZERO.. free throws?

That's a joke, especially considering how much that guy lives in the paint.


He could have had a few FT's but it's a little misleading... He settled for some pretty weak shots because he was tired IMHO. The Refs gave us plenty of FT's in the game. It isn't like we didn't out shoot Memphis at the line by a large margin.

16 of LeBron's shots were in the paint. How many times do players take 16 shots in the paint and end up with 0 free throws?
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#191 » by Landsberger » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:39 pm

thebigbird wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
TylersLakers wrote:
I didn't see the game but 39 minutes? 27 shot attempts? ZERO.. free throws?

That's a joke, especially considering how much that guy lives in the paint.


He could have had a few FT's but it's a little misleading... He settled for some pretty weak shots because he was tired IMHO. The Refs gave us plenty of FT's in the game. It isn't like we didn't out shoot Memphis at the line by a large margin.

16 of LeBron's shots were in the paint. How many times do players take 16 shots in the paint and end up with 0 free throws?


OK... the refs hate Lebron. Feel better now. Do you even watch the games or do you just cruise the stats and form your opinions?

I guess in addition to the staff playing Rondo and Kuzma the refs are now part of the conspiracy.... They all suck at it apparently... we have a 14-2 record with all this horrible stuff going on.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#192 » by Landsberger » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:40 pm

thebigbird wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
thebigbird wrote:We all want the Lakers to win a title this year, right? The biggest problem with LeBron's past teams has been that they crater whenever he sits. You used to be able to remedy that a bit in the playoffs by playing him 40+ minutes every game, but you can't count on him being able to do that this year at 35. They have to be able to play without LeBron.

This year the Lakers have a +12.9 net rating with LeBron on the floor and a -6.9 net rating with LeBron off the floor. The Lakers have a positive net rating when any other Laker sits on the bench.

Vogel staggers LeBron and AD to the point that there almost never is a time in the game where both are on the bench at the same time. AD is a top 10 player in the NBA (on the low end) and quite possibly the best defender in the NBA. There is no reason why they shouldn't have a positive net rating when he plays and LeBron is on the bench. The Lakers need to make a trade to find a guard to run the second unit when LeBron's on the bench.


The Lakers are 14-2 with 12 new players from last year's team not following your divine guidance. I'll take the experts on the sidelines and in the front office over a few so called advanced stats taken out of context and erroneously used as predictive of future game outcomes.

The "expert on the sideline" said "Rajon’s statistics are not measured on the stat sheet, it’s measured in swag," so forgive me for not having complete faith in him.

Rondo isn't getting minutes because of his play, he's getting minutes because of locker room politics. They don't want to make AD mad, and they know that Rondo will become a locker room cancer if he doesn't get the role he wants like he did in Dallas, Sacramento, and Chicago. So they're playing him to the detriment of the team.


So the solution for the Lakers seems to be to let AD walk since he's the reason Rondo plays. Got it!
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#193 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:51 pm

Landsberger wrote:
thebigbird wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
He could have had a few FT's but it's a little misleading... He settled for some pretty weak shots because he was tired IMHO. The Refs gave us plenty of FT's in the game. It isn't like we didn't out shoot Memphis at the line by a large margin.

16 of LeBron's shots were in the paint. How many times do players take 16 shots in the paint and end up with 0 free throws?


OK... the refs hate Lebron. Feel better now. Do you even watch the games or do you just cruise the stats and form your opinions?

I guess in addition to the staff playing Rondo and Kuzma the refs are now part of the conspiracy.... They all suck at it apparently... we have a 14-2 record with all this horrible stuff going on.

Lol, I've watched every single game this year. LeBron is averaging 5.6 free throws per game this year. Harden is taking 9 more free throws per game than him despite 57% of his shots being 3s. LeBron doesn't flop so he doesn't get calls. It is clear as day that he is not getting nearly as many free throws as he should. If you think that I'm just being a homer then look at what Kilroy said about it:

Kilroy wrote:Rewatching this... The refs have completely swallowed their whistles around LeBron... Don't know what he did, but they hate him now.


Since you think I'm being ridiculous about Rondo, point me to the data that shows he's helping the Lakers this season and that I'm wrong. Before the season started everyone was saying that his job was to run the second unit when LeBron sits. When he has done that this year the numbers have been horrible. So, where is the evidence that I'm wrong?
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#194 » by Beethoven » Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:52 pm

LeBron is a steam engine train no one can stop him
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#195 » by Landsberger » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:04 pm

thebigbird wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
thebigbird wrote:16 of LeBron's shots were in the paint. How many times do players take 16 shots in the paint and end up with 0 free throws?


OK... the refs hate Lebron. Feel better now. Do you even watch the games or do you just cruise the stats and form your opinions?

I guess in addition to the staff playing Rondo and Kuzma the refs are now part of the conspiracy.... They all suck at it apparently... we have a 14-2 record with all this horrible stuff going on.

Lol, I've watched every single game this year. LeBron is averaging 5.6 free throws per game this year. Harden is taking 9 more free throws per game than him despite 57% of his shots being 3s. LeBron doesn't flop so he doesn't get calls. It is clear as day that he is not getting nearly as many free throws as he should. If you think that I'm just being a homer then look at what Kilroy said about it:

Kilroy wrote:Rewatching this... The refs have completely swallowed their whistles around LeBron... Don't know what he did, but they hate him now.


Since you think I'm being ridiculous about Rondo, point me to the data that shows he's helping the Lakers this season and that I'm wrong. Before the season started everyone was saying that his job was to run the second unit when LeBron sits. When he has done that this year the numbers have been horrible. So, where is the evidence that I'm wrong?


I said: OK the refs hate Lebron. What more do you want? I agree with your deductive powers. He should have had 5.6 FT's last night by your math....

As for pointing you to data.... did you not read that I don't hold any NBA statistical data in high regard.... especially if it's being held up as predictive in anyway. However, I hold in very high regard our 14-2 record and offer it as data proof that the so called advanced statistics are flat our wrong... or we're so good we can over come that. But then, where's the advanced stat that proves that? :lol:
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#196 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:20 pm

Landsberger wrote:
thebigbird wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
OK... the refs hate Lebron. Feel better now. Do you even watch the games or do you just cruise the stats and form your opinions?

I guess in addition to the staff playing Rondo and Kuzma the refs are now part of the conspiracy.... They all suck at it apparently... we have a 14-2 record with all this horrible stuff going on.

Lol, I've watched every single game this year. LeBron is averaging 5.6 free throws per game this year. Harden is taking 9 more free throws per game than him despite 57% of his shots being 3s. LeBron doesn't flop so he doesn't get calls. It is clear as day that he is not getting nearly as many free throws as he should. If you think that I'm just being a homer then look at what Kilroy said about it:

Kilroy wrote:Rewatching this... The refs have completely swallowed their whistles around LeBron... Don't know what he did, but they hate him now.


Since you think I'm being ridiculous about Rondo, point me to the data that shows he's helping the Lakers this season and that I'm wrong. Before the season started everyone was saying that his job was to run the second unit when LeBron sits. When he has done that this year the numbers have been horrible. So, where is the evidence that I'm wrong?


I said: OK the refs hate Lebron. What more do you want? I agree with your deductive powers. He should have had 5.6 FT's last night by your math....

As for pointing you to data.... did you not read that I don't hold any NBA statistical data in high regard.... especially if it's being held up as predictive in anyway. However, I hold in very high regard our 14-2 record and offer it as data proof that the so called advanced statistics are flat our wrong... or we're so good we can over come that. But then, where's the advanced stat that proves that? :lol:

By saying "I don't hold any NBA statistical data in high regard" you're just dismissing any evidence against your position. Since data is out of the picture for you, what do you consider an adequate approach to evaluating this issue? Why do you believe that I'm wrong about Rondo hurting the team? I said that Rondo is hurting the team, I explained why, and your response was "you're wrong because I don't like your data."

And sure, it's great that the Lakers have a 14-2 record. That doesn't mean that there aren't things to be concerned about. 3 of the last 4 wins have been a 1 point win against the 5-10 Grizzlies and 3 and 5 point wins against the 5-10 Thunder. The defense was the reason for many of the early season wins, but it has dropped quite a bit recently. 10 of the 14 wins have been against teams with losing records. I see no reason to close my eyes to the issues with this team just because they're currently 14-2.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#197 » by Landsberger » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:35 pm

thebigbird wrote:By saying "I don't hold any NBA statistical data in high regard" you're just dismissing any evidence against your position.


Statistics, the ones kept by the sports bureaus for years, are recordings of what has happened. Many are very flawed (Blocked shots, steals, assists and individual rebounds are ones I believe are very poor) and are the result of a very dynamic and interdependent set of circumstances. To mix these into statistical analysis methods and believe that you can predict future outcomes is not considered viable by anyone who really knows about predictive modeling. This is what I do not hold in high regard at all. I do know a little about it as well. I began modeling predictively the financial markets out of college in the late 80's through the early 2000's. I've modeled voter data for both national and local elections, for the healthcare industry, for the department of defense as a contractor and for NOAA as a 3rd party contractor. I actually have worked with a couple people who have tried to find a way of predictive modeling for the NFL to use to bet on games.... it's failed miserably and these guys can tell you where an untested missile will land 100 miles downrange within a foot. The data needed to predict a game with literally hundreds of thousands of variables just doesn't exist. Advanced statistics are all based on very flawed rearward looking stats that were largely invented by agents to get players paid more 40-50 years ago.

I'm done.... Rondo sucks... Kuzma sucks... Lebron is hated by the refs and I'm an idiot. That should stop this....
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#198 » by thebigbird » Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:50 pm

Landsberger wrote:
thebigbird wrote:By saying "I don't hold any NBA statistical data in high regard" you're just dismissing any evidence against your position.


Statistics, the ones kept by the sports bureaus for years, are recordings of what has happened. Many are very flawed (Blocked shots, steals, assists and individual rebounds are ones I believe are very poor) and are the result of a very dynamic and interdependent set of circumstances. To mix these into statistical analysis methods and believe that you can predict future outcomes is not considered viable by anyone who really knows about predictive modeling. This is what I do not hold in high regard at all. I do know a little about it as well. I began modeling predictively the financial markets out of college in the last 80's through the early 2000's. I've modeled voter data for both national and local elections, for the healthcare industry, for the department of defense as a contractor employee and for NOAA as a 3rd party contractor. I actually have worked with a couple people who have tried to find a way of predictive modeling for the NFL to use to bet on games.... it's failed miserably and these guys can tell you where an untested missile will land 100 miles downrange within a foot. The data needed to predict a game with literally hundreds of thousands of variables just doesn't exist. Advanced statistics area all based on very flawed rearward looking stats that were largely invented by agents to get players paid more 40-50 years ago.

I'm done.... Rondo sucks... Kuzma sucks... Lebron is hated by the refs and I'm an idiot. That should stop this....

Kuzma doesn't suck, though, and I haven't said that he does, so not sure why that was included.

And okay, even if you don't believe you can use the statistics to predict future outcomes, you can still use them to look at past outcomes. And we're not talking about making precise predictions. You can look at past outcomes in the NBA to make general future predictions. It's not a stretch for me to say hey, the second unit has sucked with Rondo playing and LeBron sitting, the eye test and the numbers both reflect that, they're probably going to keep sucking. But, it's clear neither of us is going to change our stance here so I am done too.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#199 » by danfantastk32 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:54 pm

ROballer wrote:Check the trade and transactions thread.
We can't do it on our own, yes...but it can be done with a 3rd team.


Why do we want a grumpy over-the-hill PG who's A) Convinced he is the one who knows how to win a title. B) Is a GUARANTEE to get injured when the moment really matters, and C) is leading his team down the toilet? How's he so good?

Does this trade and transactions thread have a list of teams who want to do the Lakers a solid? Not that they'd be doing a solid tbh. But that aside.....I'm looking at Hoopshype team salaries, and I see only one team who might be under the cap (number 30 is Atlanta at $108 mil in salary this season....im not totally sure if that even is under the cap). Either way, they most certainly will be over the cap getting him, as will we (we already are) so that trade needs to be 80-85%, to my understanding. That would be about $30 mil we'd have to lose.

Danny Green, KCP, remainder of Deng, Rondo. <--------that gets it done. Honestly....it's hard to imagine what heap of rubbish any team is gonna pile up to equal $30 mil. OKC is gonna want some picks. Thats for sure.

Seems impossible to come up with any sort of realistic deal. And all that so we get this frumpy little guy who's gonna tell Lebron how it needs to work. I'll pass.
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Re: Game 16: Los Angeles Lakers (13-2) @ Memphis Grizzlies (5-9) - 8:00 PM ET 

Post#200 » by danfantastk32 » Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:56 pm

thebigbird wrote: Rondo isn't getting minutes because of his play, he's getting minutes because of locker room politics. They don't want to make AD mad, and they know that Rondo will become a locker room cancer if he doesn't get the role he wants like he did in Dallas, Sacramento, and Chicago. So they're playing him to the detriment of the team.


You know this to be true? How?

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