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Thoughts on Rondo so far?

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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#41 » by tamaraw08 » Wed Dec 4, 2019 6:42 pm

thebigbird wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
thebigbird wrote:Davis is 10th because he plays a bunch of minutes with Rondo, and the pairing has been terrible. You're not really pointing to anything to suggest he's "not that bad either." He's been a net negative on every team he's been on since 2012. That's a good measure of his overall worth. It's why he's bounced around from team to team.

I don't care what his WS, BPM, etc. are. His numbers are skewed because he hunts for assists to the detriment of the team. I care how the team does when he's on the court, and they've been really bad.

But thats the thing, you said, I can't point out stats to prove he's not that bad but you don't care about other stats like WS and BPM :banghead:
It's true, at times he hunts for assists but I don't think it's always the case.
How about 3pt shooting? TS%, PER, in DRTG he's better than Bradley, KCP AND Kuzma.
Again I don't like just taking one freaking stat to assess one's player value.
You mentioned AD and Rondo is a terrible combo? currently the top 6 in minutes played from 177 minutes (Kuzma +4.1 to KCP's 79 mins generates a positive score including AD for 128 mins +3.3. Yes, this will fluctuate but again Lakers do NOT have any LEGIT PG who can provide relief for Lebron. Actually, the James/Rondo combo now has a +12.3 (135 mins) tied for 4th for 2-man combo better than James/AD.
Also in his last playoffs with the Pelicans, the team was a + 7.4 with him on the court with a -5.6 when he's off.
Again I am not saying Rondo is the answer for the Lakers specific problems. Yes, he is not a good defender, yes, at times he hunts for assists but I just don't see Cook, Daniels and others can REALLY facilitate this teams' offense when James sits, can you?

Rondo and AD have a +1.0 net rating together in 127 minutes. That's not very good. Rondo has a negative BPM, so not sure why you'd point to that as a + in Rondo's favor. Rondo has a worse defensive rating than Bradley and Kuzma. Rondo's defensive rating when LeBron is off the court is absolutely atrocious. What's the point of having a player on the team whose role is to play when LeBron sits, when the only time he's playable is when he actually does play with LeBron? You point to his net rating with LeBron, and sure it's good, but it's lower than LeBron's net rating with Quinn Cook, Alex Caruso, and Avery Bradley. So, those three guys should be playing point guard next to LeBron before Rondo does.

You say that you don't like taking "one freaking stat" to assess a player's value. How valuable can a player be when his team is much better when he doesn't play than when he does play? It's incredibly obvious that Rondo is hurting the Lakers, both by the eye test and by the numbers. If you choose not to believe that, that's your choice.


This is an evidence that your missiles are just locked in on just Rondo regarding bpm. Yes, he has a -0.1, not very good right?
Did you just missed checking other players like Bradley,Caruso, KCP etc?
Bradley has a -1.3, Caruso has -1.0, KCP has a -1.4 etc, every GUARD not named Danny Green who btw can't dribble and facilitate has a NEGATIVE BPM and actually have a worst BPM than Rondo, should they play less minutes then? No, again, for me, it's about the situation and match ups. Lebron gets also productive in attacking when Rondo sets him up IMO.
I love Caruso, KCP's defense has been good too imo but we will have to agree to disagree that in your belief that Cook, AC and Bradley can really play PG and facilitate well when James is not doing it.
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#42 » by Pythagoras » Wed Dec 4, 2019 7:01 pm

Caruso is not a negative offensive player, he’s one of the BEST cutters in the NBA. The reason it why some advanced offensive numbers don’t like him is two-fold.

One is his turnovers are too high. The turnovers are on him and a legitimate flaw to his game I’ll admit that.

The other is his ORB rate is down. The ORB thing is because he’s a smart player who’s committed himself to getting back on defense and letting the team’s monstrous front court take care of business on the offensive glass. That’s just smart basketball.

He’s also not a worse offensive player than Rondo. Rondo’s offensive numbers are being saved by his completely unsustainable 3 point shooting. He’s not going to keep shooting 48.4% from 3 this season. Ironically for the Rondo defenders, Caruso is also boosting his offensive numbers. For a guy who just LOVES his assists, playing with an excellent cutter is mana from heaven, and Rondo’s AST/TOV ratio nearly doubles when Caruso is on the floor with him.

And that’s not even taking into account that Caruso is 30 light years better than Rondo on the defensive end. I actually think Caruso (and AD) are protecting him on that end too.
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#43 » by TheRealKaboom » Wed Dec 4, 2019 7:07 pm

Rondo is a role player averaging 20 minutes a game. Who cares about him?

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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#44 » by tamaraw08 » Wed Dec 4, 2019 11:27 pm

Pythagoras wrote:Caruso is not a negative offensive player, he’s one of the BEST cutters in the NBA. The reason it why some advanced offensive numbers don’t like him is two-fold.

One is his turnovers are too high. The turnovers are on him and a legitimate flaw to his game I’ll admit that.

The other is his ORB rate is down. The ORB thing is because he’s a smart player who’s committed himself to getting back on defense and letting the team’s monstrous front court take care of business on the offensive glass. That’s just smart basketball.

He’s also not a worse offensive player than Rondo. Rondo’s offensive numbers are being saved by his completely unsustainable 3 point shooting. He’s not going to keep shooting 48.4% from 3 this season. Ironically for the Rondo defenders, Caruso is also boosting his offensive numbers. For a guy who just LOVES his assists, playing with an excellent cutter is mana from heaven, and Rondo’s AST/TOV ratio nearly doubles when Caruso is on the floor with him.

And that’s not even taking into account that Caruso is 30 light years better than Rondo on the defensive end. I actually think Caruso (and AD) are protecting him on that end too.


I really don't want to make this as a Caruso vs Rondo debate bec I firmly believe that their roles are VERY DIFFERENT.
ESPN actually listed Caruso as a SG and yes his turnovers are pretty high during the first 10 games or so where he had to facilitate.
And yes, this is the irony that the Caruso/Rondo combo yields a +9.7, add Howard, they yield a +13.9, add James and they are +15.5.
I originally wanted Caruso to start, as a SG but it seems like he really plays well with Rondo too.
His shooting % are down but I am hoping that he will regain his shooting touch, as a Lakers fan, I also hope Rondo can sustain his.
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#45 » by TheHartBreakKid » Thu Dec 5, 2019 12:17 am

His shooting, and more importantly his confidence and willingness to shoot, has been a pleasant surprise that's leading me to believe he's actually making a positive or atleast neutral impact out there, atleast by the eye test. His defense has been terrible, and his decision making has been mediocre at best. His ability to throw relatively accurate lobs to AD consistently has been nice though.

Overall, he's been better than I expected, but that tells you more about my expectations for him than it does his performance. As long as he continues to confidently shoot and make a respectable percentage (even after his % inevitably drops), I'm ok with him getting the amount of minutes he's been getting. However, I want Vogel to be more comfortable pulling him those days that he's clearly a liability out there.
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#46 » by snaquille oatmeal » Thu Dec 5, 2019 4:20 am

Well Rondo just shat on this thread.
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#47 » by thebigbird » Thu Dec 5, 2019 4:21 am

snaquille oatmeal wrote:Well Rondo just shat on this thread.

No he didn't. He still sucks.
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#48 » by Landsberger » Thu Dec 5, 2019 4:33 am

snaquille oatmeal wrote:Well Rondo just shat on this thread.


Even though the post below your's is hidden from me.... I know what he/she responded.... :lol:
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#49 » by snaquille oatmeal » Thu Dec 5, 2019 4:45 am

thebigbird wrote:
snaquille oatmeal wrote:Well Rondo just shat on this thread.

No he didn't. He still sucks.

Yes he did you in denial
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#50 » by Kilroy » Thu Dec 5, 2019 5:16 am

snaquille oatmeal wrote:Well Rondo just shat on this thread.


And the turds came in 3s...
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#51 » by Rosque » Thu Dec 5, 2019 6:05 am

Best +/- today.

Also on/off just means that players that he replaces are better than him. He still has positive +/- when on the court!

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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#52 » by Dr Aki » Thu Dec 5, 2019 7:36 am

rondo is shooting 51.5% from 3pt

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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#53 » by dAdo dA dEvil » Thu Dec 5, 2019 10:45 am

Just 1 rebound away for a triple double performance. Rondo just prove that he is still a walking triple double machine (or threat, at least for the opponent). And it's all for the vet min and coming off the bench. How could I complain? Plus he is knocking down 3's in a decent percentage.
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#54 » by bb22 » Thu Dec 5, 2019 11:31 am

Rondo has been great. Bron and AD are elite and will always give the team a chance to win. Role players should make a (relatively) significant impact around once a week (or 1 every 3 games). Thus far, Rondo has been a difference maker in several games, as have Kuz, Danny, Dwight and Caruso. Keep it up.
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#55 » by Dupp » Thu Dec 5, 2019 11:43 am

He’s still been real bad all season. Borderline worst defender in the nba.

Also for a “playmaker” he’s really slow at decision making a lot of the time.


He’s had a couple of good games but he’s still not good.
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#56 » by snaquille oatmeal » Thu Dec 5, 2019 12:53 pm

Dupp wrote:He’s still been real bad all season. Borderline worst defender in the nba.

Also for a “playmaker” he’s really slow at decision making a lot of the time.


He’s had a couple of good games but he’s still not good.

I guess from a Clippers fan pout of view we should permanently load manage him.
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#57 » by Spanish_Laker » Thu Dec 5, 2019 1:18 pm

BuT RoNdO iS WaShEd Up AnD He Is No LoNgEr An NbA PlAyEr...
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#58 » by Pythagoras » Thu Dec 5, 2019 1:52 pm

TheHartBreakKid wrote:His shooting, and more importantly his confidence and willingness to shoot, has been a pleasant surprise that's leading me to believe he's actually making a positive or atleast neutral impact out there, atleast by the eye test. His defense has been terrible, and his decision making has been mediocre at best. His ability to throw relatively accurate lobs to AD consistently has been nice though.

Overall, he's been better than I expected, but that tells you more about my expectations for him than it does his performance. As long as he continues to confidently shoot and make a respectable percentage (even after his % inevitably drops), I'm ok with him getting the amount of minutes he's been getting. However, I want Vogel to be more comfortable pulling him those days that he's clearly a liability out there.


I think this is where I’ve moved to with Rondo. I have low expectations, but he’s been ok lately, so I won’t complain.
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#59 » by iamworthy » Thu Dec 5, 2019 2:19 pm

Spanish_Laker wrote:BuT RoNdO iS WaShEd Up AnD He Is No LoNgEr An NbA PlAyEr...


How long did it take for you to write this?
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Re: Thoughts on Rondo so far? 

Post#60 » by TheGOATWill » Thu Dec 5, 2019 3:07 pm

nothing special. But he is a guy you need on your team. he's steady. he makes smart basketball plays. he's suddenly capable of hitting an outside shot. not sure what more people want from their backup pg.

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