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The Kuzma Thread

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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#101 » by Landsberger » Sat Jan 18, 2020 12:12 am

The focus of the offense is either LeBron or Davis to the point of absurdity at times. Since Vogel is keeping one of them on the floor at all times it's easy to see how Kuzma gets frozen out.... and anyone else for that matter. I'll bet Kuzma has shot 1/3 of his 3's with less than 3 seconds on the clock as he is typically the "bail out" guy when the bench + big 2 guy is in the game.

The issue I have with trading Kuzma is equal value in return. We may get that if we get lucky but it won't matter much if that person is shooting bail out shots and standing in the corner possession after possession.

We're going to ride Bron and Davis along with some fill in the gaps guys all season it seems. We have a group that could provide something different as far as a bench goes but for some reason we feel no urgency to do it.
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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#102 » by NippySudz » Sat Jan 18, 2020 1:13 am

Landsberger wrote:The focus of the offense is either LeBron or Davis to the point of absurdity at times. Since Vogel is keeping one of them on the floor at all times it's easy to see how Kuzma gets frozen out.... and anyone else for that matter. I'll bet Kuzma has shot 1/3 of his 3's with less than 3 seconds on the clock as he is typically the "bail out" guy when the bench + big 2 guy is in the game.

The issue I have with trading Kuzma is equal value in return. We may get that if we get lucky but it won't matter much if that person is shooting bail out shots and standing in the corner possession after possession.

We're going to ride Bron and Davis along with some fill in the gaps guys all season it seems. We have a group that could provide something different as far as a bench goes but for some reason we feel no urgency to do it.
Kyle kuzma gets his fair share of shots (well at least when rondo is out )when each is staggered which is his role at this point. What Kyle needs to do is make better decisions with the basketball.

You don't need to enter the game and shoot a contested jumper coming off the bench with yourself as the primary ballhandler when rondo is out. Know your spots. get to your spots and make plays.

Jared Dudley on Allen sliwa Lakers talk hinted that kuzma is too concerned wkth tbe box score and in a polite way told kuzma to focus on making the right plays instead of the box score.

When he's making it, he has all the confidence but when he's not making shots, he's not engaged. His body language is poor. If he wants to be consistently he needs to let the game come to him and play to his strengths. This whole Kobe style shooting contested jumpers and making them isn't his game.

This is partly on Vogel too because Vogel needs to find ways to keep him engaged in the offense so that way he'll be engaged on both sides of the floor but kuzma needs to play smarter. Playing smarter will lead to more consistency. Especially in the playoffs. Teams are smart. They'll take all that cute **** away.

I thought Jared Dudley said he was going to help kuzma breakdown film?

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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#103 » by stan francisco » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:21 am

SamFlow wrote:
NippySudz wrote:
Kilroy wrote:
It depends on who he's matched up against obviously, but he seems to do better against SFs in general. He's not really strong enough to match up against bigger, more athletic Fs, either 3s or 4s... On offense, he has no post game to speak of, so he's more of an elbow-out player. His best attribute was volume 3s... But he's got a nice little floater too and can break guys down and get to the hoop on occasion... But you don't really want him doing that, because when he does, he forgets how to shoot 3s.
He's a low IQ player which is why he's inconsistent. Maybe that will come with time but if he understood matchups and using his strength vs weaknesses in matchups, he'll be more consistent. He needs to let the game come to him. Even games he does well in, I don't feel like he's playing the right way. He just happens to have a rhythm that's on.

The Christmas game he was making some tough shots.

The Dallas game it was LeBron that told him to pull out the tricks. To utilise that and his size

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Just curious how he might fit with Sekou Doumbouya who is a Forward... some small and some power. Seems like if a trade was worked out, those two might be able to play together.


I’m not saying his bratty attitude (in that interview, almost young Kobe) will ruin a locker room of veterans.

I’m saying if he stopped focusing on feeding his own ego with personal accolades, he’d get more out of his own game.

Maybe that’s why Vogel’s willingness to draw plays for Kuz isn’t there, because Kuz’ attitude is creating a willingness not to? I’m guessing, but that attitude has no place on a championship team full of veterans.

Based on that interview alone, I don’t think Vogel wants to keep him past the ASB.

PG: James[34], Bradley, Rondo, Cook
SG: Caruso[28], Pope, Daniels, THT
SF: Kuzma[28], Green, THT, Caroline
PF: Davis[34], Kuzma, Dudley, Cacok
C: McGee[24], Howard, Kostas, (DMC)

Go huge: PG James | SG Kuz | SF Davis | PF Cousins | C Howard

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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#104 » by stan francisco » Sat Jan 18, 2020 11:28 am

NippySudz wrote:
Landsberger wrote:The focus of the offense is either LeBron or Davis to the point of absurdity at times. Since Vogel is keeping one of them on the floor at all times it's easy to see how Kuzma gets frozen out.... and anyone else for that matter. I'll bet Kuzma has shot 1/3 of his 3's with less than 3 seconds on the clock as he is typically the "bail out" guy when the bench + big 2 guy is in the game.

The issue I have with trading Kuzma is equal value in return. We may get that if we get lucky but it won't matter much if that person is shooting bail out shots and standing in the corner possession after possession.

We're going to ride Bron and Davis along with some fill in the gaps guys all season it seems. We have a group that could provide something different as far as a bench goes but for some reason we feel no urgency to do it.
Kyle kuzma gets his fair share of shots (well at least when rondo is out )when each is staggered which is his role at this point. What Kyle needs to do is make better decisions with the basketball.

You don't need to enter the game and shoot a contested jumper coming off the bench with yourself as the primary ballhandler when rondo is out. Know your spots. get to your spots and make plays.

Jared Dudley on Allen sliwa Lakers talk hinted that kuzma is too concerned wkth tbe box score and in a polite way told kuzma to focus on making the right plays instead of the box score.

When he's making it, he has all the confidence but when he's not making shots, he's not engaged. His body language is poor. If he wants to be consistently he needs to let the game come to him and play to his strengths. This whole Kobe style shooting contested jumpers and making them isn't his game.

This is partly on Vogel too because Vogel needs to find ways to keep him engaged in the offense so that way he'll be engaged on both sides of the floor but kuzma needs to play smarter. Playing smarter will lead to more consistency. Especially in the playoffs. Teams are smart. They'll take all that cute **** away.

I thought Jared Dudley said he was going to help kuzma breakdown film?

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Wise post. Agreed on all counts.

He plays for himself since coming back from injury, not the team. I the last game, he had 7 assists, which I had been waiting for. He can ball. Just his head is effed right now.

And, yes, Dudley is the man for the job. Probably the only person who can talk him around before he’s traded.

You’ve got less than a month to change Kuz. Drop the unjustified uber-alpha attitude. Look around the locker room and count your blessings.

PG: James[34], Bradley, Rondo, Cook
SG: Caruso[28], Pope, Daniels, THT
SF: Kuzma[28], Green, THT, Caroline
PF: Davis[34], Kuzma, Dudley, Cacok
C: McGee[24], Howard, Kostas, (DMC)

Go huge: PG James | SG Kuz | SF Davis | PF Cousins | C Howard

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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#105 » by Landsberger » Sat Jan 18, 2020 5:34 pm

My guess is that they trade Kuzma. Not because he's disappointing or even his play. I think Bron's camp wants more vets here.

My guess is that he's gone we get a 30+ year old vet who will still play about 22 minutes a game and provide about 12-14 points per game. We will still have one of Davis or Bron on the court at all times and we will still see them at the center of the offense at all times. It's worked well to this point and the FO seems like they are looking for a group to fully turn over again in 2 years anyway.

It will be better for Kuzma as well.
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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#106 » by S Curry » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:06 am

Came here to say 1 thing.

Kuzma defense tonight was AMAZING, especially considering how much trouble he had on this side of the floor.
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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#107 » by Landsberger » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:10 am

S Curry wrote:Came here to say 1 thing.

Kuzma defense tonight was AMAZING, especially considering how much trouble he had on this side of the floor.


He had some issues in year one into about the half way point last year. He's been playing great defense most of this year in this scheme.

Last year Luke was putting him on centers and had little to no idea how to build any defensive mindset in the team. Vogel has make these guys concentrate on defense.
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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#108 » by Ballerhogger » Sun Jan 19, 2020 5:15 am

Kumza had great night
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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#109 » by Beethoven » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:40 am

Kuzma lookin good these days. This guy deserves to be part of the championship run
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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#110 » by stan francisco » Sun Jan 19, 2020 3:56 pm

Like I’ve said, by ASB nobody will want him traded.

PG: James[34], Bradley, Rondo, Cook
SG: Caruso[28], Pope, Daniels, THT
SF: Kuzma[28], Green, THT, Caroline
PF: Davis[34], Kuzma, Dudley, Cacok
C: McGee[24], Howard, Kostas, (DMC)

Go huge: PG James | SG Kuz | SF Davis | PF Cousins | C Howard

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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#111 » by NippySudz » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:04 pm

stan francisco wrote:Like I’ve said, by ASB nobody will want him traded.
No one will want him traded for peanuts which is exactly what they would get if they did.

But give the guy credit, he played well. I always harp on his defense but he was able to guard probably one or the fastest guys with the basketball. He did really well.

Credit to rondo for going up and telling kuz to guard Westbrook. You guys won't want to waive rondo either. He has a great mind for the game. Even when hes on the bench, he sees the game.

His knowledge Is an invaluable asset

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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#112 » by stan francisco » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:22 pm

NippySudz wrote:
stan francisco wrote:Like I’ve said, by ASB nobody will want him traded.
No one will want him traded for peanuts which is exactly what they would get if they did.

But give the guy credit, he played well. I always harp on his defense but he was able to guard probably one or the fastest guys with the basketball. He did really well.

Credit to rondo for going up and telling kuz to guard Westbrook. You guys won't want to waive rondo either. He has a great mind for the game. Even when hes on the bench, he sees the game.

His knowledge Is an invaluable asset

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Changing our tune, finally. I’m glad you’re coming around on Kuz. He’s starting to catch up to rest of team. Defense first, now his shots will start coming from within the system, not by solo accolades.

This, what you mention, he did during the last 10-15 games of last season. On team USA, he made it his business to guard the opposing team’s best player.

PG: James[34], Bradley, Rondo, Cook
SG: Caruso[28], Pope, Daniels, THT
SF: Kuzma[28], Green, THT, Caroline
PF: Davis[34], Kuzma, Dudley, Cacok
C: McGee[24], Howard, Kostas, (DMC)

Go huge: PG James | SG Kuz | SF Davis | PF Cousins | C Howard

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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#113 » by NippySudz » Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:33 pm

stan francisco wrote:
NippySudz wrote:
stan francisco wrote:Like I’ve said, by ASB nobody will want him traded.
No one will want him traded for peanuts which is exactly what they would get if they did.

But give the guy credit, he played well. I always harp on his defense but he was able to guard probably one or the fastest guys with the basketball. He did really well.

Credit to rondo for going up and telling kuz to guard Westbrook. You guys won't want to waive rondo either. He has a great mind for the game. Even when hes on the bench, he sees the game.

His knowledge Is an invaluable asset

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Changing our tune, finally. I’m glad you’re coming around on Kuz. He’s starting to catch up to rest of team. Defense first, now his shots will start coming from within the system, not by solo accolades.

This, what you mention, he did during the last 10-15 games of last season. On team USA, he made it his business to guard the opposing team’s best player.


Oh I'm still not a believer in kuz but as I said I will give credit where credit is due. I always say they could win with him but hypothetically speaking if they could get a better piece or pieces, their chances will go exponentially higher. It's just not likely for the contract they can.

I do think experiencing the playoffs will turn him into a better player. In the playoffs you have to watch a lot of film, you can't skip the small steps. In the playoffs, it's about matchups 99% of the time.

He's either going to excel after his first experience or choke.i think the former. I think he'll learn from the experience and it'll make him a better player. He'll start to think the game more amd use his strengths as oppose to just playing every guy and every situation the same way.

Just look at Clarkson, he's not a superstar but after experiencing the NBA and the playoffs a bit, he seems more composed player in Utah and it seems to be paying off.

Is kuzma a superstar? No. Is he an all star? No and I don't think he'll ever be one. But he can become a better roleplayer and I believe he will. I always said he's not as bad as 4pts kuz but he's not as great as some Laker fans might think.

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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#114 » by stan francisco » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:27 pm

I agree with most of the above, except I don’t think you’ve yet seen what a junkyard dog he is. You’re the LeBron (not Lakers) fan, right? He isn’t even in his groove yet. Watch the last 10-15 games of the previous season. I didn’t see him on Team USA but I heard Pop was lyrical.

My big disagreement is that I’m convinced that he won’t fold at a big challenge, he’ll step up to the plate and he’ll grow quickly. He’s a very fast learner, very bright kid. He means business.

Like I’ve said all along, I think that Kuz’ max ceiling is as the third star on a championship run team. If he remains a Laker, he could be a part of a championship dynasty.

And, I’m still convinced that if we keep him past ASB, which I think we should, he’ll be our third star before the season is over. Yes, star.

By April, he’ll outperform KCP, Green, and everyone else not named LBJ, AD, AC when it comes to +/-. That’s my prediction. Couple that with volume scoring.

He has the talent. He puts in the work. He’s smart and uber confident.

If he plays WITH LeBron and AD a bit more, he could be the Worthy to Magic and KAJ.

Yeah, comparing him with Worthy is sacrilege around here. What I said was that I think he’s got that as his ceiling for his career, his max potential.

Tell Kuz that and he’ll say he’s gonna beat out Worthy before it’s retirement time.

PG: James[34], Bradley, Rondo, Cook
SG: Caruso[28], Pope, Daniels, THT
SF: Kuzma[28], Green, THT, Caroline
PF: Davis[34], Kuzma, Dudley, Cacok
C: McGee[24], Howard, Kostas, (DMC)

Go huge: PG James | SG Kuz | SF Davis | PF Cousins | C Howard

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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#115 » by dockingsched » Sun Jan 19, 2020 6:36 pm

For those using the all star break as some turning point that will have some no longer wanting to trade him, the trade deadline is 10 days prior to the all star game, so kind of pointless to look at the all star game.
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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#116 » by Landsberger » Sun Jan 19, 2020 7:08 pm

My guess is that he's gone if they can get the short contract Vet they want.
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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#117 » by NippySudz » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:31 pm

stan francisco wrote:I agree with most of the above, except I don’t think you’ve yet seen what a junkyard dog he is. You’re the LeBron (not Lakers) fan, right? He isn’t even in his groove yet. Watch the last 10-15 games of the previous season. I didn’t see him on Team USA but I heard Pop was lyrical.

My big disagreement is that I’m convinced that he won’t fold at a big challenge, he’ll step up to the plate and he’ll grow quickly. He’s a very fast learner, very bright kid. He means business.

Like I’ve said all along, I think that Kuz’ max ceiling is as the third star on a championship run team. If he remains a Laker, he could be a part of a championship dynasty.

And, I’m still convinced that if we keep him past ASB, which I think we should, he’ll be our third star before the season is over. Yes, star.

By April, he’ll outperform KCP, Green, and everyone else not named LBJ, AD, AC when it comes to +/-. That’s my prediction. Couple that with volume scoring.

He has the talent. He puts in the work. He’s smart and uber confident.

If he plays WITH LeBron and AD a bit more, he could be the Worthy to Magic and KAJ.

Yeah, comparing him with Worthy is sacrilege around here. What I said was that I think he’s got that as his ceiling for his career, his max potential.

Tell Kuz that and he’ll say he’s gonna beat out Worthy before it’s retirement time.


I get it. He's a gamer. But you speak so much about intangible stuff that's just word salad.

If he was a gamer but he did all the little things it takes to win then I would agree with your argument..Caruso is a gamer. He gets up for the competition. Russell Westbrook, plays with a ton of energy


Russell Westbrook isn't helping anyone win a championship in my estimation just because jes a cut throat competitor.

I'm not a Laker fan per se but I like watching them play. I was very high on kuzma last yr for the some of the things you mentioned. What really sold me on kuzma last yr was when LeBron groin popped and kuz amd rondo led them to the victory. Kuz was fearless in that game and it was against the warriors iirc. I'm like okay, this kid got something. He got. A little mamba mentality. A lot of guys can fold under that pressure and he stepped up.

But what I saw through the course of that season was inconsistent. I didn't put much stock into it. When I heard aboit all the stuff he was marketing on social media about him being in the gym, I believed and defended him when people say otherwise. Pete zayas even says he's talked to Laker people that can attest to the fact he wants to get better. So I believed it

But now, I kinda don't. I believe he's about his brand, which is fine but unsure if he put the work in. Ingram even hinted a lot of guys got distracted by outside distractions when he was on the lakers. Kuzma was the only young core not to go. Speculating but that hints something to me. He's focused on the attention while not producing on the court. Last yr was fine because he was with some young bulls. The yr before, he was a rookie.

I started to seeing the decisions he made. Kuzma never had a high bbiq and for some reason, I overlooked this. Before a few days ago, his career high in asts was two. He hasn't found that balance between being a Willi passer or overwilling passer. He doesn't play to matchups. he plays basketball like he's at the rec league but with professionals.

He's a solid guy. I don't like how's arrogant he's gotten but he's not a bad kid. We were all young at some point but at the end of the day, I just think he has a ceiling of being a solid role player. Not star. He can be the third leadkng scorer on the team but I wouldn't call that a star. Jr Smith was the third scoring person on the Cavs championship, jr isn't a star but he wasn't a bad pick up with the Cavs.

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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#118 » by ScHoolBoy B » Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:09 pm

Would like to keep him if he keeps improving. We really can't have games where he's completely cold and does nothing else. Those are the games that we'll have to keep on eye on until trade deadline.
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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#119 » by Landsberger » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:05 pm

ScHoolBoy B wrote:Would like to keep him if he keeps improving. We really can't have games where he's completely cold and does nothing else. Those are the games that we'll have to keep on eye on until trade deadline.


This could be said about everyone on the team not named LeBron or Davis. At some point the inconsistency in everyone else becomes inconsistency in opportunity IMHO. Danny Green has 4 games of at least 15 points this season.... and 7 of less than 5!

Consistency isn't just a Kuzma thing....

Specifically he's been giving effort and playing defense consistently all year. Offensively is where he's been inconsistent along with all non-big 2 guys.
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Re: The Kuzma Thread 

Post#120 » by stan francisco » Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:45 am

NippySudz wrote:
stan francisco wrote:I agree with most of the above, except I don’t think you’ve yet seen what a junkyard dog he is. You’re the LeBron (not Lakers) fan, right? He isn’t even in his groove yet. Watch the last 10-15 games of the previous season. I didn’t see him on Team USA but I heard Pop was lyrical.

My big disagreement is that I’m convinced that he won’t fold at a big challenge, he’ll step up to the plate and he’ll grow quickly. He’s a very fast learner, very bright kid. He means business.

Like I’ve said all along, I think that Kuz’ max ceiling is as the third star on a championship run team. If he remains a Laker, he could be a part of a championship dynasty.

And, I’m still convinced that if we keep him past ASB, which I think we should, he’ll be our third star before the season is over. Yes, star.

By April, he’ll outperform KCP, Green, and everyone else not named LBJ, AD, AC when it comes to +/-. That’s my prediction. Couple that with volume scoring.

He has the talent. He puts in the work. He’s smart and uber confident.

If he plays WITH LeBron and AD a bit more, he could be the Worthy to Magic and KAJ.

Yeah, comparing him with Worthy is sacrilege around here. What I said was that I think he’s got that as his ceiling for his career, his max potential.

Tell Kuz that and he’ll say he’s gonna beat out Worthy before it’s retirement time.


I get it. He's a gamer. But you speak so much about intangible stuff that's just word salad.

If he was a gamer but he did all the little things it takes to win then I would agree with your argument..Caruso is a gamer. He gets up for the competition. Russell Westbrook, plays with a ton of energy


Russell Westbrook isn't helping anyone win a championship in my estimation just because jes a cut throat competitor.

I'm not a Laker fan per se but I like watching them play. I was very high on kuzma last yr for the some of the things you mentioned. What really sold me on kuzma last yr was when LeBron groin popped and kuz amd rondo led them to the victory. Kuz was fearless in that game and it was against the warriors iirc. I'm like okay, this kid got something. He got. A little mamba mentality. A lot of guys can fold under that pressure and he stepped up.

But what I saw through the course of that season was inconsistent. I didn't put much stock into it. When I heard aboit all the stuff he was marketing on social media about him being in the gym, I believed and defended him when people say otherwise. Pete zayas even says he's talked to Laker people that can attest to the fact he wants to get better. So I believed it

But now, I kinda don't. I believe he's about his brand, which is fine but unsure if he put the work in. Ingram even hinted a lot of guys got distracted by outside distractions when he was on the lakers. Kuzma was the only young core not to go. Speculating but that hints something to me. He's focused on the attention while not producing on the court. Last yr was fine because he was with some young bulls. The yr before, he was a rookie.

I started to seeing the decisions he made. Kuzma never had a high bbiq and for some reason, I overlooked this. Before a few days ago, his career high in asts was two. He hasn't found that balance between being a Willi passer or overwilling passer. He doesn't play to matchups. he plays basketball like he's at the rec league but with professionals.

He's a solid guy. I don't like how's arrogant he's gotten but he's not a bad kid. We were all young at some point but at the end of the day, I just think he has a ceiling of being a solid role player. Not star. He can be the third leadkng scorer on the team but I wouldn't call that a star. Jr Smith was the third scoring person on the Cavs championship, jr isn't a star but he wasn't a bad pick up with the Cavs.

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Call it word salad if you want. Gut instinct is my most reliable compass. Sorry, I don’t care much for talking about offense only overpaid players like Jr Smith.

Vogel’s defense is deep to learn and exhausting to play. It’ll slow down for Kuz very soon, like it just recently did for the vets already on our team.

Watch him get into a more consistent rhythm by ASB and start turning it up once he knows he’s not traded; right after ASB.

For the $1.9M salary for Kuzma with all of his potential, we’d better get one hell of a vet in return. Who is that dirt cheap vet but better than Kuz player for that money?

At $3.8M(?) next year, he’ll contribute more per dollar than any other player on our team. He now plays the defensive end well enough to have earned more minutes from Vogel. He’s just warming up on the other end. I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised to see a 45-15-10 game from him soon.

Adding Iggy doesn’t have to mean losing Kuz. In my mind, Kuz is the most cost effective contract we have, all players included. Even if we only counted defense.

PG: James[34], Bradley, Rondo, Cook
SG: Caruso[28], Pope, Daniels, THT
SF: Kuzma[28], Green, THT, Caroline
PF: Davis[34], Kuzma, Dudley, Cacok
C: McGee[24], Howard, Kostas, (DMC)

Go huge: PG James | SG Kuz | SF Davis | PF Cousins | C Howard

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