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ScHoolBoy B wrote:Kuzma is not a one on one player. He doesn’t have the ball handling skills to go one on one. So he results to catch and shoot, and he’s not even great at that. So I’m sure Vogel/Bron/AD have had discussions on how to involve him some more but his skill set and his little side distractions are derailing his full involvement with the team.
I fully expect Kuzma to be traded this offseason since his contract shoots up to close to 4 million.
NippySudz wrote:Think you're putting too much blame on Vogel. Again you don't want to put blame much of it on kuzma. You want to deflect it other places including on LeBron James. Which doesn't make sense because LeBron is probably the only guy to consistently pass to him.stan francisco wrote:You’re preaching to the choir. Last year, he cut more off the ball. Vogel’s system has very few sharp diagonal cuts off the ball in it, which is one of the things I expected him to excel in this year.
He’s sort of the third option behind Bron and AD right now, but no where near being the clear third option. The triangle would fit Kuz. Luke ran a few great sets for Kuz. Watch film, Frank!
In Kuzma’s defense, he went from scoring 20PPG behind Bron last year, where he and Ingram shared the second option scoring role. This year, as a forgotten afterthought behind TWO superstars, he still puts up almost the same scoring production. It could be argued that’s more impressive than last year’s scoring.
Meanwhile, on my side of the ball, his defense has improved significantly. I had doubts about his mindset there but no more. Impressive growth in short time.
I guess the Kuzma I see could be another year out, but we’ll see. The ASB is over, time to go all out, Kuz!
I still expect him to be our third star. Maybe my timing is off but now is when he should explode.
My guess is still that nobody will want him traded after the season is over. Especially not for a $4M player in return.
We've heard from two teammates(Jared Dudley and cousins) and a former NBA player in Matt Barnes and from kuzma himself which you pointed out by the way, that he's concerned with his mins, touches, and establishing himself long term.
All the vets are the team are telling him to find ways to contribute. That has nothing to do with vogels system. That has to deal with effort and energy to contribute. That's the same thing Kobe asked Dwight to do the first go around when Dwight wanted to post up. If the vets are telling him to keep cutting , it's because they see it's there..
This is a blessing in disguise. It's giving him a Chance to work on other areas of his game where he's weak at. He's had a few 5+ asts games which wasn't a thing in the past. In the past, his career high was 2asts. That lets.me k ow he's improving his vision and understanding how to read the defense and offense..a very good sign.
He's not just gonna turn it on and avg like 20 especially with less touches. Kuz has talent but he's not skilled. It would be asking a lot of him. It would be kinda unfair to him.
All Laker fans can ask him to do is compete and bring the energy every night. Find ways to contribute.
Tony Ferguson likes to say, "consistency x effort = confidence"
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NippySudz wrote:Think you're putting too much blame on Vogel. Again you don't want to put blame much of it on kuzma. You want to deflect it other places including on LeBron James. Which doesn't make sense because LeBron is probably the only guy to consistently pass to him.stan francisco wrote:You’re preaching to the choir. Last year, he cut more off the ball. Vogel’s system has very few sharp diagonal cuts off the ball in it, which is one of the things I expected him to excel in this year.
He’s sort of the third option behind Bron and AD right now, but no where near being the clear third option. The triangle would fit Kuz. Luke ran a few great sets for Kuz. Watch film, Frank!
In Kuzma’s defense, he went from scoring 20PPG behind Bron last year, where he and Ingram shared the second option scoring role. This year, as a forgotten afterthought behind TWO superstars, he still puts up almost the same scoring production. It could be argued that’s more impressive than last year’s scoring.
Meanwhile, on my side of the ball, his defense has improved significantly. I had doubts about his mindset there but no more. Impressive growth in short time.
I guess the Kuzma I see could be another year out, but we’ll see. The ASB is over, time to go all out, Kuz!
I still expect him to be our third star. Maybe my timing is off but now is when he should explode.
My guess is still that nobody will want him traded after the season is over. Especially not for a $4M player in return.
We've heard from two teammates(Jared Dudley and cousins) and a former NBA player in Matt Barnes and from kuzma himself which you pointed out by the way, that he's concerned with his mins, touches, and establishing himself long term.
All the vets are the team are telling him to find ways to contribute. That has nothing to do with vogels system. That has to deal with effort and energy to contribute. That's the same thing Kobe asked Dwight to do the first go around when Dwight wanted to post up. If the vets are telling him to keep cutting , it's because they see it's there..
This is a blessing in disguise. It's giving him a Chance to work on other areas of his game where he's weak at. He's had a few 5+ asts games which wasn't a thing in the past. In the past, his career high was 2asts. That lets.me k ow he's improving his vision and understanding how to read the defense and offense..a very good sign.
He's not just gonna turn it on and avg like 20 especially with less touches. Kuz has talent but he's not skilled. It would be asking a lot of him. It would be kinda unfair to him.
All Laker fans can ask him to do is compete and bring the energy every night. Find ways to contribute.
Tony Ferguson likes to say, "consistency x effort = confidence
Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk
Eh, I can't compare eras..everything is so switch heavy now. As I mention, there's a fine balance between trying to win games and developing players. Lakers don't have the personel to keep leads when LeBron James is sitting out for a significant amount of time. AD needs someone to get him the ball. I read somewhere that half of AD's baskets are assisted.tamaraw08 wrote:NippySudz wrote:Think you're putting too much blame on Vogel. Again you don't want to put blame much of it on kuzma. You want to deflect it other places including on LeBron James. Which doesn't make sense because LeBron is probably the only guy to consistently pass to him.stan francisco wrote:You’re preaching to the choir. Last year, he cut more off the ball. Vogel’s system has very few sharp diagonal cuts off the ball in it, which is one of the things I expected him to excel in this year.
He’s sort of the third option behind Bron and AD right now, but no where near being the clear third option. The triangle would fit Kuz. Luke ran a few great sets for Kuz. Watch film, Frank!
In Kuzma’s defense, he went from scoring 20PPG behind Bron last year, where he and Ingram shared the second option scoring role. This year, as a forgotten afterthought behind TWO superstars, he still puts up almost the same scoring production. It could be argued that’s more impressive than last year’s scoring.
Meanwhile, on my side of the ball, his defense has improved significantly. I had doubts about his mindset there but no more. Impressive growth in short time.
I guess the Kuzma I see could be another year out, but we’ll see. The ASB is over, time to go all out, Kuz!
I still expect him to be our third star. Maybe my timing is off but now is when he should explode.
My guess is still that nobody will want him traded after the season is over. Especially not for a $4M player in return.
We've heard from two teammates(Jared Dudley and cousins) and a former NBA player in Matt Barnes and from kuzma himself which you pointed out by the way, that he's concerned with his mins, touches, and establishing himself long term.
All the vets are the team are telling him to find ways to contribute. That has nothing to do with vogels system. That has to deal with effort and energy to contribute. That's the same thing Kobe asked Dwight to do the first go around when Dwight wanted to post up. If the vets are telling him to keep cutting , it's because they see it's there..
This is a blessing in disguise. It's giving him a Chance to work on other areas of his game where he's weak at. He's had a few 5+ asts games which wasn't a thing in the past. In the past, his career high was 2asts. That lets.me k ow he's improving his vision and understanding how to read the defense and offense..a very good sign.
He's not just gonna turn it on and avg like 20 especially with less touches. Kuz has talent but he's not skilled. It would be asking a lot of him. It would be kinda unfair to him.
All Laker fans can ask him to do is compete and bring the energy every night. Find ways to contribute.
Tony Ferguson likes to say, "consistency x effort = confidence
Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk
It would have been ok if Lebron and AD are just playing under 32 mins like Giannis and Doncic and the bench is good enough to compete against most teams but it's not the case. This team crumbles whenever Lebron sits even with AD who averaged 26 pts last year without Lebron while KCP is shooting 40% from the 3pt area. It would have been ok if they have a guy like Lou Williams who scores 20+pts coming from the bench but they don't. The 20 year old Doncic plays less minutes than 35 yr old Lebron and his team stays afloat even without having a superstar like AD wreaking havoc when he sits, why? bec Kleber, Curry and Brunson are much better players? Great coaches finds ways to maximize their talent, heck, Phil found a way to play Smush Parker and win games.
NippySudz wrote:Eh, I can't compare eras..everything is so switch heavy now. As I mention, there's a fine balance between trying to win games and developing players. Lakers don't have the personel to keep leads when LeBron James is sitting out for a significant amount of time. AD needs someone to get him the ball. I read somewhere that half of AD's baskets are assisted.tamaraw08 wrote:NippySudz wrote:Think you're putting too much blame on Vogel. Again you don't want to put blame much of it on kuzma. You want to deflect it other places including on LeBron James. Which doesn't make sense because LeBron is probably the only guy to consistently pass to him.
We've heard from two teammates(Jared Dudley and cousins) and a former NBA player in Matt Barnes and from kuzma himself which you pointed out by the way, that he's concerned with his mins, touches, and establishing himself long term.
All the vets are the team are telling him to find ways to contribute. That has nothing to do with vogels system. That has to deal with effort and energy to contribute. That's the same thing Kobe asked Dwight to do the first go around when Dwight wanted to post up. If the vets are telling him to keep cutting , it's because they see it's there..
This is a blessing in disguise. It's giving him a Chance to work on other areas of his game where he's weak at. He's had a few 5+ asts games which wasn't a thing in the past. In the past, his career high was 2asts. That lets.me k ow he's improving his vision and understanding how to read the defense and offense..a very good sign.
He's not just gonna turn it on and avg like 20 especially with less touches. Kuz has talent but he's not skilled. It would be asking a lot of him. It would be kinda unfair to him.
All Laker fans can ask him to do is compete and bring the energy every night. Find ways to contribute.
Tony Ferguson likes to say, "consistency x effort = confidence
Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk
It would have been ok if Lebron and AD are just playing under 32 mins like Giannis and Doncic and the bench is good enough to compete against most teams but it's not the case. This team crumbles whenever Lebron sits even with AD who averaged 26 pts last year without Lebron while KCP is shooting 40% from the 3pt area. It would have been ok if they have a guy like Lou Williams who scores 20+pts coming from the bench but they don't. The 20 year old Doncic plays less minutes than 35 yr old Lebron and his team stays afloat even without having a superstar like AD wreaking havoc when he sits, why? bec Kleber, Curry and Brunson are much better players? Great coaches finds ways to maximize their talent, heck, Phil found a way to play Smush Parker and win games.
If kuzma is in the game and he's scoring but he's getting cooked by Pascal siakam for like 9 straight pointswhat do you want Vogel to do? He's going to yank him.
That being said he should have the same energy when it comes to rondo too. But it's still dependent on LeBron and AD to win Ball games.
I think Vogel should get him involved more. I suggested it early on before anyone here did but how much involve can kuz really be? He can run a couple of actions for him, keep him engaged in the game, but kuz ballhandling seems to have not improved, he can't really create for himself outside of the sick floater. And he's not consistently scoring.
You can give him a few actions the way kcp gets a few but I don't think it's going to marginally improve things. Should keep him engaged maybe better effort. He stays locked in but is it going to lead to more consistency?
We'll have to see.
Edit: btw, if seth curry was on the Lakers, I'm going to say the bench doesn't play in the red. He's a decent ball handler/shot creator who shoots the three. Who on the Lakers other than LeBron can do that? I really thought he was going to be a laker in the offseason. He's not spectacular but he fits right in with ad and LeBron
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stan francisco wrote:He’s already proven that he can do what you’re asking of him. Again, watch the last 10-20 games of last season, then talk about how he can’t do consistently what he already proved capable of last year. Mind you,consistently and efficiently, in flow with the offense.
NippySudz wrote:
He's high on kuz's potential.Sedale Threatt wrote:stan francisco wrote:He’s already proven that he can do what you’re asking of him. Again, watch the last 10-20 games of last season, then talk about how he can’t do consistently what he already proved capable of last year. Mind you,consistently and efficiently, in flow with the offense.
He averaged 19 on 53 TS% (44.1 overall, 30.6 on 3s) over the final 20 games, with a negative net rating and minimal production elsewhere (4.9 reb, 2.9 ast, 0.4 blk, 0.4 stl). There is nothing special or even intriguing about this. Indeed, it's pretty much the same as what we've gotten this year, with the only difference being that his minutes/shots are down. Otherwise, he's the same player today as he was during that stretch: Mediocre.
stan francisco wrote:NippySudz wrote:
Now we’re talking. I hope this is what’s gonna be.
Stats, schmats. Eye test doesn’t lie.
NippySudz wrote:He's high on kuz's potential.Sedale Threatt wrote:stan francisco wrote:He’s already proven that he can do what you’re asking of him. Again, watch the last 10-20 games of last season, then talk about how he can’t do consistently what he already proved capable of last year. Mind you,consistently and efficiently, in flow with the offense.
He averaged 19 on 53 TS% (44.1 overall, 30.6 on 3s) over the final 20 games, with a negative net rating and minimal production elsewhere (4.9 reb, 2.9 ast, 0.4 blk, 0.4 stl). There is nothing special or even intriguing about this. Indeed, it's pretty much the same as what we've gotten this year, with the only difference being that his minutes/shots are down. Otherwise, he's the same player today as he was during that stretch: Mediocre.
I agree with you. I think he's overrated but I do think he has the potential to be a solid off the bench scorer much later in his career.
Cook isn't good.tamaraw08 wrote:NippySudz wrote:Eh, I can't compare eras..everything is so switch heavy now. As I mention, there's a fine balance between trying to win games and developing players. Lakers don't have the personel to keep leads when LeBron James is sitting out for a significant amount of time. AD needs someone to get him the ball. I read somewhere that half of AD's baskets are assisted.tamaraw08 wrote:It would have been ok if Lebron and AD are just playing under 32 mins like Giannis and Doncic and the bench is good enough to compete against most teams but it's not the case. This team crumbles whenever Lebron sits even with AD who averaged 26 pts last year without Lebron while KCP is shooting 40% from the 3pt area. It would have been ok if they have a guy like Lou Williams who scores 20+pts coming from the bench but they don't. The 20 year old Doncic plays less minutes than 35 yr old Lebron and his team stays afloat even without having a superstar like AD wreaking havoc when he sits, why? bec Kleber, Curry and Brunson are much better players? Great coaches finds ways to maximize their talent, heck, Phil found a way to play Smush Parker and win games.
If kuzma is in the game and he's scoring but he's getting cooked by Pascal siakam for like 9 straight pointswhat do you want Vogel to do? He's going to yank him.
That being said he should have the same energy when it comes to rondo too. But it's still dependent on LeBron and AD to win Ball games.
I think Vogel should get him involved more. I suggested it early on before anyone here did but how much involve can kuz really be? He can run a couple of actions for him, keep him engaged in the game, but kuz ballhandling seems to have not improved, he can't really create for himself outside of the sick floater. And he's not consistently scoring.
You can give him a few actions the way kcp gets a few but I don't think it's going to marginally improve things. Should keep him engaged maybe better effort. He stays locked in but is it going to lead to more consistency?
We'll have to see.
Edit: btw, if seth curry was on the Lakers, I'm going to say the bench doesn't play in the red. He's a decent ball handler/shot creator who shoots the three. Who on the Lakers other than LeBron can do that? I really thought he was going to be a laker in the offseason. He's not spectacular but he fits right in with ad and LeBron
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Yes, I would have preferred Seth Curry too but bear in mind at age 25, he was averaging 6.8 pts/game at Sacramento no way he just recently learned to shoot and play-make. Last year, Quinn Cook as a reserve for GSW, he averaged 6.9 pts.
That was a nice Seth highlight you shared. Cook has his own moments too like vs the Magic. [][/url]
scoring 22 pts then played 4 mins the game after.
It's not just about Kuzma, if this team is just decent when Lebron sits, then this team should be ok but they are really bad even with AD, KCP shooting 40% and Kuzma struggling when he proved he can be good when given the chance last season.
I see Spoelstra finding ways to maximize the talent of ok players like Duncan Robinson and Nunn, guys while the current Lakers bench struggling to be decent.
Yes, I understand the 2 superstar formula which they have been using has worked many many times before but I would feel much better if Lebron is 29 and not 35.
Slava wrote:I pulled a hammy while fapping. I won't make fun of Nash.
ROballer wrote:His play is indefensible. Posters who put his struggles on the coach, system, teammates or anything don't know a clue about basketball and don't even deserve the benefit of a reply.
He's a middle tier to low efficiency scorer on a bad team and that's it. As Sedale put it, even when he did see more minutes and had a larger role basically everything he did was score and nothing else.
He doesn't belong in the "3rd best player on a contender" or "possible All-Star" conversation, nor is he worth a lick of slack or defending, like others like to do to him around here.
Get your **** homer glasses off and see the scrub in front of your eyes.
Slava wrote:I pulled a hammy while fapping. I won't make fun of Nash.
NippySudz wrote:Cook isn't good.tamaraw08 wrote:NippySudz wrote:Eh, I can't compare eras..everything is so switch heavy now. As I mention, there's a fine balance between trying to win games and developing players. Lakers don't have the personel to keep leads when LeBron James is sitting out for a significant amount of time. AD needs someone to get him the ball. I read somewhere that half of AD's baskets are assisted.
If kuzma is in the game and he's scoring but he's getting cooked by Pascal siakam for like 9 straight pointswhat do you want Vogel to do? He's going to yank him.
That being said he should have the same energy when it comes to rondo too. But it's still dependent on LeBron and AD to win Ball games.
I think Vogel should get him involved more. I suggested it early on before anyone here did but how much involve can kuz really be? He can run a couple of actions for him, keep him engaged in the game, but kuz ballhandling seems to have not improved, he can't really create for himself outside of the sick floater. And he's not consistently scoring.
You can give him a few actions the way kcp gets a few but I don't think it's going to marginally improve things. Should keep him engaged maybe better effort. He stays locked in but is it going to lead to more consistency?
We'll have to see.
Edit: btw, if seth curry was on the Lakers, I'm going to say the bench doesn't play in the red. He's a decent ball handler/shot creator who shoots the three. Who on the Lakers other than LeBron can do that? I really thought he was going to be a laker in the offseason. He's not spectacular but he fits right in with ad and LeBron
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Yes, I would have preferred Seth Curry too but bear in mind at age 25, he was averaging 6.8 pts/game at Sacramento no way he just recently learned to shoot and play-make. Last year, Quinn Cook as a reserve for GSW, he averaged 6.9 pts.
That was a nice Seth highlight you shared. Cook has his own moments too like vs the Magic. [][/url]
scoring 22 pts then played 4 mins the game after.
It's not just about Kuzma, if this team is just decent when Lebron sits, then this team should be ok but they are really bad even with AD, KCP shooting 40% and Kuzma struggling when he proved he can be good when given the chance last season.
I see Spoelstra finding ways to maximize the talent of ok players like Duncan Robinson and Nunn, guys while the current Lakers bench struggling to be decent.
Yes, I understand the 2 superstar formula which they have been using has worked many many times before but I would feel much better if Lebron is 29 and not 35.
He's an end of the bench player. That's how I remembered him from Golden State and watching the finals last yr. He's had his moments but curry is an rotation bench player. I really thought the Lakers would get him but they were waiting on kawhi. I have no idea if he intended on playing in LA but I thought it would be a better fit.
I'm not comparing kuz and curry at the same age. I'm stating now.
I agree Vogel coaching isn't elite but I don't put kuzma not bringing energy on Vogel. You can't coach energy. Caruso finds ways to win.
I'm asking a lot less from kuzma than Laker fans are. I'm only asking this guy to find ways to stay on the floor. He's a streaky shooter and that's not going to change in a few months, so find some way to stay on the floor. If anyone is expecting Kuz to consistently score 20+at this juncture, I think they're suffering from delusion. We'll have to see how he does on the wing now but I don't see it.
He'll have his high point games here and there but imo he won't be consistent enough so he needs to find ways to contribute to win. His vision is getting better. Looks like he's beginning to understand the game judging by his vision and assists. But still got some ways to go
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Slava wrote:I pulled a hammy while fapping. I won't make fun of Nash.
ROballer wrote:There are plenty of scrubs who scored well over 18 a game when their team sucked ass, and were given green light.
Aaron Brooks? Christian Wood is a fantasy stud for tanking teams, putting up way better numbers than Kuzma ever did with big minutes, but he has little to no impact and can't crack a rotation when a team is actually trying.
Plenty of examples, don't make me start looking. He's closer to a scrub than an impact player and that's not debatable.
ROballer wrote:There are plenty of scrubs who scored well over 18 a game when their team sucked ass, and were given green light.
Aaron Brooks? Christian Wood is a fantasy stud for tanking teams, putting up way better numbers than Kuzma ever did with big minutes, but he has little to no impact and can't crack a rotation when a team is actually trying.
Plenty of examples, don't make me start looking. He's closer to a scrub than an impact player and that's not debatable.
