ImageImageImageImageImage

Enough is Enough vogel has got to go.

Moderators: Kilroy, Danny Darko, TyCobb

lalalaker
Sophomore
Posts: 103
And1: 18
Joined: Nov 06, 2018
 

Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#1 » by lalalaker » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:04 am

Lets be clear this year is hell important for lakers as davis can decide to walk if things turn bad this season and so far it is not good at all. Lakers arent blowing away teams that they should despite winning, losing against strong teams and honestly i dont see good team chemistry on court. What i am seeing now is a flashback of last season with luke as coach where he didnt do any style or system of offense and just let the talent of player do its work. So far all i see this season is hey LBJ work your magic on offense or just feed it to davis. There is no flow on offense over reliance on players and end up being a total **** in the end. Lakers offense gets too simple once 2nd half starts. its all lbj and davis look how predictable the offense is total shock lol.

Somehow theres this bromance between rondo and vogel where he puts an enormous trust on this vet who cant shoot or wont score only can assist which he barely does so what good does he do? vogels reliance on players to make plays is not how nba coaches should coach and its the reason why teams lose once opponents start figuring out how you play. if vogel is gonna use rondo then at least run the plays that forces rondo to atk the rim and dish or high pick and roll offense that he is used to run. What is up with this lakers coach hating to use pick and roll its an offense that works well so use it dammit. Luke was a stupid coach that wanted to show the world he can coach being ORIGINAL while vogel is a stupid coach that jus trust players to create offense themselves. I hate this non improvement from our coaches these past few years and i know lakers wont fire vogel but at least i want to see change from this lakers offense wise to the standard offense.GOD DAM I WISH VOGEL READS THIS.

I GUARANTEE IF LAKERS RUN THE HIGH SCREEN P&R THIS TEAM WILL BE BETTER I HAVE NO DOUBT.
Why do you think kuzma doesnt feel comfortable? Because offense is running too much for lbj and davis that when kuzma gets the ball its near shot clock. Look at this clippers game and tell me why the F is kuzma not featured more after a strong 1st half. why didnt the lakers keep the same offense going on second half? bc the offense is too predictable. Why is davis at post is just everyone else standing still why wont some1 slash to basket or set a pick near post why why why vogel u stupid coach
thebigbird
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,961
And1: 13,391
Joined: Jul 11, 2018
 

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#2 » by thebigbird » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:07 am

Vogel won't get fired this year but his rotations have sucked for a while. Winning was just masking it.
Kilroy
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 18,956
And1: 9,337
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Location: The Motel 9 in Vegas
       

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#3 » by Kilroy » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:17 am

I think Vogel could get fired... Just if for no other reason than we don't have a whole lot else we can do and the team needs to improve. We don't have much to trade... If guys like Iggy or maybe CP3 don't become available in buy-out, we could be stuck with this roster for the rest of the season..
Only thing we could do is fire Vogel, put Kid in charge and see if something happens.

Losing the season series to the Clippers, who were our main rival coming in, is just the kind of thing that could get a Lakers coach fired, especially if it was clear they had no answer to the better teams..
Image
User avatar
Dr Aki
RealGM
Posts: 29,154
And1: 17,834
Joined: Mar 03, 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
   

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#4 » by Dr Aki » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:20 am

what's the point of having shooters if they can't hit a shot?
Image
Kilroy
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 18,956
And1: 9,337
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Location: The Motel 9 in Vegas
       

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#5 » by Kilroy » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:23 am

Dr Aki wrote:what's the point of having shooters if they can't hit a shot?


Yeah, after this game, trading Green is starting to sound like a decent move...
Image
User avatar
TylersLakers
General Manager
Posts: 9,903
And1: 2,133
Joined: Jan 20, 2006
Location: Winnipeg Canada
     

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#6 » by TylersLakers » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:32 am

Kilroy wrote:
Dr Aki wrote:what's the point of having shooters if they can't hit a shot?


Yeah, after this game, trading Green is starting to sound like a decent move...


This is the first time I've actually considered it. Especially with Kuzma shooting the way he is and healthy.

Vogel's been really good. I don't like his infatuation with Avery Bradley, but that's about it. He usually makes the right decisions in the flow of a basketball game.

But he needs to run more actual offence instead of relying on LeBron, Davis and Rondo. And it's really not his fault that Rondo is playing such a big role. There's just no one better than him on the team right now who can create.
Image
lalalaker
Sophomore
Posts: 103
And1: 18
Joined: Nov 06, 2018
 

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#7 » by lalalaker » Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:25 am

even as great of a creator lbj and rondo is there is noway any player can make a play with players not moving around and just standing still waiting for a pass. This is the reason why i say pick and roll is important. And not just any pick and roll it has to be an instant pick that catches defender off guard why the f does rondo or lbj have to tell their teammates to come and set pick. that move alone shows how bad of a offense is and how bad the coach is for not coaching. One of the worst play in nba imo to call for screen telling defense to get ready for a pick just pure idiot move for a pro
Slava
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 58,416
And1: 30,395
Joined: Oct 15, 2006
Location: København
     

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#8 » by Slava » Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:38 am

The team has lost 7 games all season, two of those to the clippers who have a superior roster, a game in Indiana without Davis, a game against Denver without LeBron and the rest against good defenses like toronto, Milwaukee on the road etc.

There's still a lot of time to address the issues and Vogel has done well in laying down the fundamentals of how this team is supposed to play. Unless you want Lionel Hollins, Jason kidd or David fizdale, Vogel is still the best option.
:king: + :angry: = :wizard:
Landsberger
General Manager
Posts: 8,451
And1: 1,761
Joined: Jul 04, 2016
 

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#9 » by Landsberger » Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:38 am

Vogel needs to diversify the "down the stretch" offense for sure but he's brought a defensive philosophy to this team that lived off of this season. I'm sure telling LeBron to play off the ball is a career limiting endeavor but he really needs to do that. We are so predictable that bringing in all these guys everyone wants isn't going to yield different results until the system is changed.

We had a hot Kuzma who was able to get in the paint and force some things. In the 4th he got one shot in a semi-transition situation. If we ran the same offense we had been in the mid-third quarter we'd have won this one IMHO.
Revived
RealGM
Posts: 26,599
And1: 12,309
Joined: Feb 17, 2011

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#10 » by Revived » Thu Dec 26, 2019 5:40 am

Jason Kidd would have to be the next man up if Vogel is fired. I’m sure Kidd was promised that when he took the job otherwise he wouldn’t have came on as an assistant and would’ve held out for a HC gig elsewhere.
mc140
Freshman
Posts: 53
And1: 32
Joined: Dec 31, 2013
       

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#11 » by mc140 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 6:00 am

Revived wrote:Jason Kidd would have to be the next man up if Vogel is fired.


I'm not sure that is a good thing.
Kilroy
Forum Mod - Lakers
Forum Mod - Lakers
Posts: 18,956
And1: 9,337
Joined: Jul 10, 2006
Location: The Motel 9 in Vegas
       

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#12 » by Kilroy » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:48 am

Slava wrote:The team has lost 7 games all season, two of those to the clippers who have a superior roster, a game in Indiana without Davis, a game against Denver without LeBron and the rest against good defenses like toronto, Milwaukee on the road etc.

There's still a lot of time to address the issues and Vogel has done well in laying down the fundamentals of how this team is supposed to play. Unless you want Lionel Hollins, Jason kidd or David fizdale, Vogel is still the best option.


For me it's not so much about the losses, as it is about the feeling that he got flat out-coached both times against the Clippers... They go in at the half in a double-digit hole, and no real answers to what we were doing essentially with no LeBron, Doc adjusts and they come back and put it to us in the second half.

There have been several games this season where I felt like we had no real game plan but won anyway just on Lebron/AD's greatness... In fact there have been games where it just felt like the offense was impeding us.

I'm not calling for Vogel's head... Firing him would be a little embarrassing right now... But I don't think he's helping this team that much either and we need some changes.

This team, as constructed and coached right now is AT BEST a WCF contender. I don't think that satisfies anyone really.
Image
Showdown
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,514
And1: 931
Joined: Feb 15, 2019

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#13 » by Showdown » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:50 am

Are you Kidding me ?
lalalaker
Sophomore
Posts: 103
And1: 18
Joined: Nov 06, 2018
 

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#14 » by lalalaker » Thu Dec 26, 2019 9:59 am

What there to credit vogel this season except defense which hardly is even near consistent and have proven we cant win against good teams with such inconsistency alone. If all frank vogel could do is lose against any team just bc lbj or davis or both are out due to injury then what good is he as a coach. Losing is a barometer for how good the coach actually is by seeing what he improved upon from last loss and so far i see no such change in this team offense wise and defense wise
Spanish_Laker
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,387
And1: 1,784
Joined: Jan 27, 2007
   

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#15 » by Spanish_Laker » Thu Dec 26, 2019 11:01 am

4-game losing streak is just unacceptable on a team with AD and Bron. Start another massive W streak ASAP or he should be fired.
Arguably the greatest franchise ever
SweetTouch
RealGM
Posts: 19,544
And1: 2,524
Joined: Mar 29, 2010
Location: Fl

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#16 » by SweetTouch » Thu Dec 26, 2019 1:17 pm

I read how the lineup that got the 15 point lead didn’t play one minute in the second half

Is this correct
Stop being so disrespectful.
tamaraw08
Senior
Posts: 639
And1: 139
Joined: Feb 13, 2019
     

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#17 » by tamaraw08 » Thu Dec 26, 2019 3:52 pm

Spanish_Laker wrote:4-game losing streak is just unacceptable on a team with AD and Bron. Start another massive W streak ASAP or he should be fired.


For me it's not just about wins and losses but how they are playing?
Extremely reliant on the greatness of their 2 superstars, one is a 35 yr old nursing lingering injuries and another with a history of missing games due to various injuries.
James AND AD are playing more minutes per game (more than 34 mins) than much younger players like Doncic (32 mins),KAT,Ben Simmons and Giannis (31mins) with Luca and Giannis not having a dominant player next to them.
For those Vogel supporters, please explain to me the specific sets they are running when James and AD don't handle the ball and
WHY THE HELL HE DIDN'T PRACTICE the team for almost a month. :oops:
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/12/21/21033040/lakers-news-frank-vogel-practice-veterans-bucks-postgame-quotes-lebron-james
on Saturday, the Los Angeles Lakers [b]will practice for the first time since Nov. 29 — almost an entire month ago.[/b]

A big reason for that is the fact that they’ve been on the road for eight of their last nine games, but they could have snuck a practice in during that if they wanted to. So why didn’t they?

After the Lakers’ 111-104 loss to the Milwaukee Bucks on Thursday, head coach Frank Vogel told reporters that this is the least a team of his has ever practiced, but with the way they’ve looked to start the season, he thinks it’s justifiable (via Spectrum SportsNet):

I understand the idea of resting and conserving Lebron and AD's energy but why can't he formulate sets for the bench to use, screenrolls, curl plays, flex offense, motion offense etc etc, get AC, Green JMG, Daniels and have them practice them instead of saying ok guys, when you are on the court, please pass the ball to Lebron, AD and sometimes Rondo and let them run the show...
Landsberger
General Manager
Posts: 8,451
And1: 1,761
Joined: Jul 04, 2016
 

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#18 » by Landsberger » Thu Dec 26, 2019 4:33 pm

SweetTouch wrote:I read how the lineup that got the 15 point lead didn’t play one minute in the second half

Is this correct


The 15 point lead was in the 3rd quarter..... so... no.
NippySudz
Veteran
Posts: 2,911
And1: 1,006
Joined: Jul 08, 2019

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#19 » by NippySudz » Thu Dec 26, 2019 7:31 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:
Spanish_Laker wrote:4-game losing streak is just unacceptable on a team with AD and Bron. Start another massive W streak ASAP or he should be fired.


For me it's not just about wins and losses but how they are playing?
Extremely reliant on the greatness of their 2 superstars, one is a 35 yr old nursing lingering injuries and another with a history of missing games due to various injuries.
James AND AD are playing more minutes per game (more than 34 mins) than much younger players like Doncic (32 mins),KAT,Ben Simmons and Giannis (31mins) with Luca and Giannis not having a dominant player next to them.
For those Vogel supporters, please explain to me the specific sets they are running when James and AD don't handle the ball and
WHY THE HELL HE DIDN'T PRACTICE the team for almost a month. :oops:
https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2019/12/21/21033040/lakers-news-frank-vogel-practice-veterans-bucks-postgame-quotes-lebron-james
on Saturday, the Los Angeles Lakers [b]will practice for the first time since Nov. 29 — almost an entire month ago.[/b]

A big reason for that is the fact that they’ve been on the road for eight of their last nine games, but they could have snuck a practice in during that if they wanted to. So why didn’t they?

After the Lakers’ 111-104 loss to the Milwaukee Bucks on Thursday, head coach Frank Vogel told reporters that this is the least a team of his has ever practiced, but with the way they’ve looked to start the season, he thinks it’s justifiable (via Spectrum SportsNet):

I understand the idea of resting and conserving Lebron and AD's energy but why can't he formulate sets for the bench to use, screenrolls, curl plays, flex offense, motion offense etc etc, get AC, Green JMG, Daniels and have them practice them instead of saying ok guys, when you are on the court, please pass the ball to Lebron, AD and sometimes Rondo and let them run the show...
You do know the majority of NBA teams if not all don't practice during the regular season because there's so many games and you don't want to burn guys out.

How do you have time to practice when you're on the road and have multiple back to back sets?

For example, You have 3 games in 4 nights. Where would you have time to fit in a practice?

Sent from my LM-Q710(FGN) using Tapatalk
User avatar
iamworthy
RealGM
Posts: 18,461
And1: 6,188
Joined: Jul 20, 2007
Location: Ring City!!!
   

Re: Enough is Enough vogel has got to go. 

Post#20 » by iamworthy » Fri Dec 27, 2019 1:44 am

Honestly I only care about the two L's against the clippers since I think we will meet in the playoffs. Of LeBron plays better in both of those games we win. I don't fault Vogel.
Image

Return to Los Angeles Lakers