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Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET

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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#61 » by kblo247 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 5:54 am

Slava wrote:
iamworthy wrote:
Slava wrote:That KCP deal went from a Rich Paul tax to one of the best cost efficient deals in no time. Kudos to him.


His activity level had always been there, things just weren't going his way for a while.


He's shooting 41% from 3. That is basically the turning point.

Let’s be clear Luke **** over him last year with his love of Hart even though he was a turnstile and Zo couldn’t do anything in half court. KCP also had a better defensive rating than Ingram at sg. Yet nothing he did would allow him to get the starts and minutes he deserved or get a fair shot.

The fact remains however KCP even in his limited time and struggles last year was a plus defender at the 2 and 1. KCP was the teams best free throw shooter. KCP was also a top three guy Lebron assisted to last year with Kuzma and Javale being the other two over Ingram, Ball, and Hart who all got more mins with him.

KCP got his chance to start, got his chance to get mins, and hit his stride doing what he does best. He created havoc pressuring the ball when Bradley went down. Vogel put in some mid range looks for him. Then he got the 3 ball going. Really and truly Bradley doesn’t deserve to start over him and really and truly no one deserves more minutes than him or Kuz if their name is not Lebron or AD. Long term KCP and Kuz should close every game, get 30 mins, and get double digits attempts. The closer they get to that and the more engaged they are the better
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#63 » by snaquille oatmeal » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:26 am

Landsberger wrote:Caruso is so limited offensively. He’s got to do more than this or he’s going to be an issue in the playoffs.

i don't think he is limited, he did a lot more in the G-league, i think now he is making the "stay in your lane role player" role work against him a bit.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#64 » by kblo247 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:55 am

snaquille oatmeal wrote:
Landsberger wrote:Caruso is so limited offensively. He’s got to do more than this or he’s going to be an issue in the playoffs.

i don't think he is limited, he did a lot more in the G-league, i think now he is making the "stay in your lane role player" role work against him a bit.

Vogles early year comments about playing your role and sharing the wealth got in the head of Caruso, Kuzma, and KCP
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#65 » by Kilroy » Mon Dec 30, 2019 8:02 am

I wasn't going to but I watched this one... No real complaints. Really hoped to see more aggressive scoring from Kuz like the last couple, but he looked fatigued... I will say this though... His Defense is night and day better than it used to be.

I thought Bradley did a great job on Doncic, and set the tone for how to play him the rest of the way.

Not sure what Dwight's doing out there... He seems to be the 'mouth' on our team.... He's jawing at everyone and seems to draw some ticky-tack responses just about every game... But he was on fire tonight so more power to him.

McGee was incredible too...

Worried about AD still though... He got his, but he's clearly not firing on all cylinders right now.

But nice game on the back end of a b2b in any case.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#66 » by Spanish_Laker » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:23 am

I'm really impressed with yesterday's defense. Very good job everyone. It is really difficult to keep Dallas under 100 points. gg guys.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#67 » by LAKESHOW » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:57 am

What im seeing a bit more of, and what vogel should get credit, is more offensive motion from the other 4 guys on the court
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#68 » by Landsberger » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:30 pm

snaquille oatmeal wrote:
Landsberger wrote:Caruso is so limited offensively. He’s got to do more than this or he’s going to be an issue in the playoffs.

i don't think he is limited, he did a lot more in the G-league, i think now he is making the "stay in your lane role player" role work against him a bit.


Well.... this isn't the G-League. Zubac was hitting 3's and scoring 20 down there. Caruso is a fan favorite and even being the least bit realistic with him is taboo but he is very limited offensively. He has to have the perfect match up to create either for himself or others and he's even having issues with the wide open shots on most nights. Maybe it's confidence and he needs more experience in those situations but I don't see his defense as that much of an advantage over others when he doinks three straight possessions like he did last night.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#69 » by Landsberger » Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:34 pm

kblo247 wrote:
snaquille oatmeal wrote:
Landsberger wrote:Caruso is so limited offensively. He’s got to do more than this or he’s going to be an issue in the playoffs.

i don't think he is limited, he did a lot more in the G-league, i think now he is making the "stay in your lane role player" role work against him a bit.

Vogles early year comments about playing your role and sharing the wealth got in the head of Caruso, Kuzma, and KCP


I don't disagree with this... even Davis has said this. My comment last night came after 3 straight possessions where Caruso air balled a layup, made a dumb pass in traffic and then badly missed a wide open 3. He's pretty limited on the offensive end for us. If we can get enough production from the others to overcome it that's great but other teams are leaving him to clog the lane against LeBron and Davis. He needs to find a way to be enough of a threat to keep that from happening.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#70 » by tamaraw08 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:03 pm

Landsberger wrote:Caruso is so limited offensively. He’s got to do more than this or he’s going to be an issue in the playoffs.


No one is his right mind would argue your concern. Caruso has been struggling while Rondo has shot well the past month or so and yet Alex has a higher EFG%, TS%, WS than Rondo so far. THey are tied in BPM AND ORTG.
Caruso is playing less minutes/game, takes 4.5 shots down from 7 attempts and yet the team is a + 8.7 PTS, +0.65 EFG% unlike Rondo's negative numbers when he is on the floor.
No a few have grumbled about how limited Derek Fisher was before, averaging under 40% FG, etc but his ability to learn his role, where to cut, rotate on defense etc etc were very beneficial to the Lakers cause before. Of course Derek was also very clutch in the playoffs.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#71 » by Landsberger » Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:33 pm

tamaraw08 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:Caruso is so limited offensively. He’s got to do more than this or he’s going to be an issue in the playoffs.


No one is his right mind would argue your concern. Caruso has been struggling while Rondo has shot well the past month or so and yet Alex has a higher EFG%, TS%, WS than Rondo so far. THey are tied in BPM AND ORTG.
Caruso is playing less minutes/game, takes 4.5 shots down from 7 attempts and yet the team is a + 8.7 PTS, +0.65 EFG% unlike Rondo's negative numbers when he is on the floor.
No a few have grumbled about how limited Derek Fisher was before, averaging under 40% FG, etc but his ability to learn his role, where to cut, rotate on defense etc etc were very beneficial to the Lakers cause before. Of course Derek was also very clutch in the playoffs.


Are you trying to compare Caruso to Fisher? Wow.... and what does Rondo have to do with Caruso's inability to demand attention on the offensive end?

I guess there is no ability to have a fair evaluation of Caruso here. I like the guy but I just don't see what a lot of others see in him. To me he's an easily replaceable role player.... albeit one with a cult following for some reason.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#72 » by snaquille oatmeal » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:18 pm

Landsberger wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:Caruso is so limited offensively. He’s got to do more than this or he’s going to be an issue in the playoffs.


No one is his right mind would argue your concern. Caruso has been struggling while Rondo has shot well the past month or so and yet Alex has a higher EFG%, TS%, WS than Rondo so far. THey are tied in BPM AND ORTG.
Caruso is playing less minutes/game, takes 4.5 shots down from 7 attempts and yet the team is a + 8.7 PTS, +0.65 EFG% unlike Rondo's negative numbers when he is on the floor.
No a few have grumbled about how limited Derek Fisher was before, averaging under 40% FG, etc but his ability to learn his role, where to cut, rotate on defense etc etc were very beneficial to the Lakers cause before. Of course Derek was also very clutch in the playoffs.


Are you trying to compare Caruso to Fisher? Wow.... and what does Rondo have to do with Caruso's inability to demand attention on the offensive end?

I guess there is no ability to have a fair evaluation of Caruso here. I like the guy but I just don't see what a lot of others see in him. To me he's an easily replaceable role player.... albeit one with a cult following for some reason.

I think that you are failing to see Caruso for what he is. We are not saying he is an all star caliber player. What we are saying is that for an undrafted player one who made his bones in the G league, one who build himself up from two way contracts and one who is cheap as hell he is more than what you could ask for. Wanting him to be more than a solid player for us is ridiculous. So we are just appreciating that he is a solid player, that’s what we see. Name a player right now that is performing at a higher level that is getting paid the same or less than Caruso and you won’t find many and if you do whatever team has them they won’t let them go.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#73 » by Landsberger » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:37 pm

snaquille oatmeal wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
No one is his right mind would argue your concern. Caruso has been struggling while Rondo has shot well the past month or so and yet Alex has a higher EFG%, TS%, WS than Rondo so far. THey are tied in BPM AND ORTG.
Caruso is playing less minutes/game, takes 4.5 shots down from 7 attempts and yet the team is a + 8.7 PTS, +0.65 EFG% unlike Rondo's negative numbers when he is on the floor.
No a few have grumbled about how limited Derek Fisher was before, averaging under 40% FG, etc but his ability to learn his role, where to cut, rotate on defense etc etc were very beneficial to the Lakers cause before. Of course Derek was also very clutch in the playoffs.


Are you trying to compare Caruso to Fisher? Wow.... and what does Rondo have to do with Caruso's inability to demand attention on the offensive end?

I guess there is no ability to have a fair evaluation of Caruso here. I like the guy but I just don't see what a lot of others see in him. To me he's an easily replaceable role player.... albeit one with a cult following for some reason.

I think that you are failing to see Caruso for what he is. We are not saying he is an all star caliber player. What we are saying is that for an undrafted player one who made his bones in the G league, one who build himself up from two way contracts and one who is cheap as hell he is more than what you could ask for. Wanting him to be more than a solid player for us is ridiculous. So we are just appreciating that he is a solid player, that’s what we see. Name a player right now that is performing at a higher level that is getting paid the same or less than Caruso and you won’t find many and if you do whatever team has them they won’t let them go.


Agree 100%... however he is limited at this level and all of that makes no difference.... it's a great story and kudos to him for achieving it but in the end if he can't hit open shots and opposing teams sag off of him it really doesn't matter what he makes does it?

I think he's better offensively than what he's shown however the only real offense we've seen from him has been on very bad teams and in the G League. Some of that should translate eventually. Right now he's hesitating and overthinking it.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#74 » by Beethoven » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:44 pm

Landsberger wrote:
snaquille oatmeal wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
Are you trying to compare Caruso to Fisher? Wow.... and what does Rondo have to do with Caruso's inability to demand attention on the offensive end?

I guess there is no ability to have a fair evaluation of Caruso here. I like the guy but I just don't see what a lot of others see in him. To me he's an easily replaceable role player.... albeit one with a cult following for some reason.

I think that you are failing to see Caruso for what he is. We are not saying he is an all star caliber player. What we are saying is that for an undrafted player one who made his bones in the G league, one who build himself up from two way contracts and one who is cheap as hell he is more than what you could ask for. Wanting him to be more than a solid player for us is ridiculous. So we are just appreciating that he is a solid player, that’s what we see. Name a player right now that is performing at a higher level that is getting paid the same or less than Caruso and you won’t find many and if you do whatever team has them they won’t let them go.


Agree 100%... however he is limited at this level and all of that makes no difference.... it's a great story and kudos to him for achieving it but in the end if he can't hit open shots and opposing teams sag off of him it really doesn't matter what he makes does it?

I think he's better offensively than what he's shown however the only real offense we've seen from him has been on very bad teams and in the G League. Some of that should translate eventually. Right now he's hesitating and overthinking it.

I agree w both of you..nevertheless, I really believe Caruso is a cerebral kind of fellow who thrives to get better and absorb anything he can from his experiences.
We can take what he gives us at the moment, but going into April, he will have a good year of high caliber experience along w what he had previous years and should be more than serviceable in the playoffs
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#75 » by Landsberger » Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:47 pm

Beethoven wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
snaquille oatmeal wrote:I think that you are failing to see Caruso for what he is. We are not saying he is an all star caliber player. What we are saying is that for an undrafted player one who made his bones in the G league, one who build himself up from two way contracts and one who is cheap as hell he is more than what you could ask for. Wanting him to be more than a solid player for us is ridiculous. So we are just appreciating that he is a solid player, that’s what we see. Name a player right now that is performing at a higher level that is getting paid the same or less than Caruso and you won’t find many and if you do whatever team has them they won’t let them go.


Agree 100%... however he is limited at this level and all of that makes no difference.... it's a great story and kudos to him for achieving it but in the end if he can't hit open shots and opposing teams sag off of him it really doesn't matter what he makes does it?

I think he's better offensively than what he's shown however the only real offense we've seen from him has been on very bad teams and in the G League. Some of that should translate eventually. Right now he's hesitating and overthinking it.

I agree w both of you..nevertheless, I really believe Caruso is a cerebral kind of fellow who thrives to get better and absorb anything he can from his experiences.
We can take what he gives us at the moment, Going into April, he will have a good year of high caliber experience along w what he had previous years and should be more than serviceable in the playoffs


Let's hope he can grow.... we will need him to.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#76 » by snaquille oatmeal » Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:49 pm

Landsberger wrote:
snaquille oatmeal wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
Are you trying to compare Caruso to Fisher? Wow.... and what does Rondo have to do with Caruso's inability to demand attention on the offensive end?

I guess there is no ability to have a fair evaluation of Caruso here. I like the guy but I just don't see what a lot of others see in him. To me he's an easily replaceable role player.... albeit one with a cult following for some reason.

I think that you are failing to see Caruso for what he is. We are not saying he is an all star caliber player. What we are saying is that for an undrafted player one who made his bones in the G league, one who build himself up from two way contracts and one who is cheap as hell he is more than what you could ask for. Wanting him to be more than a solid player for us is ridiculous. So we are just appreciating that he is a solid player, that’s what we see. Name a player right now that is performing at a higher level that is getting paid the same or less than Caruso and you won’t find many and if you do whatever team has them they won’t let them go.


Agree 100%... however he is limited at this level and all of that makes no difference.... it's a great story and kudos to him for achieving it but in the end if he can't hit open shots and opposing teams sag off of him it really doesn't matter what he makes does it?

I think he's better offensively than what he's shown however the only real offense we've seen from him has been on very bad teams and in the G League. Some of that should translate eventually. Right now he's hesitating and overthinking it.

I guess the part of what you are saying and that I may be misunderstanding is you want him to be more than what he is.
It’s like if we give him a number...say 6, we say he is a great six, our six, the six that we need, yay our six. But you are saying is well in this league you have to be an 8 or you suck. That’s what I get from your argument.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#77 » by Kilroy » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:14 pm

Caruso is about where I thought he'd be right now... He's solid and exceptional defensively, but not much of an offensive threat... I think that's just who he is. Which is really great, but he's not a starter. He's a 1st or 2nd G off the bench, guy...
Fans have a bad tendency to prop up guys like him to the detriment of team success and then end up hating on him when he can't deliver to their expectations.
Caruso is doing fine.
Our G problem is that unless KCP can continue to build on what he's been doing in December, our next best G is Bradley, who is solid as an extremely low volume 3 and D guy, but he's probably not the offensive threat we'd hoped for.

I think we're really close to seeing KCP starting for Bradley...
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KCP could end up being our Fisher.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#78 » by kblo247 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:27 pm

Kilroy wrote:Caruso is about where I thought he'd be right now... He's solid and exceptional defensively, but not much of an offensive threat... I think that's just who he is. Which is really great, but he's not a starter. He's a 1st or 2nd G off the bench, guy...
Fans have a bad tendency to prop up guys like him to the detriment of team success and then end up hating on him when he can't deliver to their expectations.
Caruso is doing fine.
Our G problem is that unless KCP can continue to build on what he's been doing in December, our next best G is Bradley, who is solid as an extremely low volume 3 and D guy, but he's probably not the offensive threat we'd hoped for.

I think we're really close to seeing KCP starting for Bradley...
KCP
Green
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AD
McGee

KCP could end up being our Fisher.

I’m fine with starting Bradley just like Javale but not letting him finish things or even giving him a second stint each half.

If you are bringing Bradley off the bench with Caruso, Rondo, and Dwight ... you got to say **** ball movement and equality ... Kuzma you are iverson and these guys are yours. You get 10 plus shots, you 28-30 minutes, and the O runs through you ... **** that balance the others scrap and clean up
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#79 » by tamaraw08 » Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:47 pm

Landsberger wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:Caruso is so limited offensively. He’s got to do more than this or he’s going to be an issue in the playoffs.


No one is his right mind would argue your concern. Caruso has been struggling while Rondo has shot well the past month or so and yet Alex has a higher EFG%, TS%, WS than Rondo so far. THey are tied in BPM AND ORTG.
Caruso is playing less minutes/game, takes 4.5 shots down from 7 attempts and yet the team is a + 8.7 PTS, +0.65 EFG% unlike Rondo's negative numbers when he is on the floor.
No a few have grumbled about how limited Derek Fisher was before, averaging under 40% FG, etc but his ability to learn his role, where to cut, rotate on defense etc etc were very beneficial to the Lakers cause before. Of course Derek was also very clutch in the playoffs.


Are you trying to compare Caruso to Fisher? Wow.... and what does Rondo have to do with Caruso's inability to demand attention on the offensive end?

I guess there is no ability to have a fair evaluation of Caruso here. I like the guy but I just don't see what a lot of others see in him. To me he's an easily replaceable role player.... albeit one with a cult following for some reason.


Yes, it sounds crazy to compare Fisher to Caruso if you just look at skill level and type of play but I'm referring to production and role esp when Derek was playing less than 24 mins/game at age 25 averaging 6 pts at 6 shots pretty similar to Caruso's.
I mentioned Rondo bec you seemed to like him way much more and I pointed out that their impact are pretty much the same even though I pointed out the difference of their roles. When the Lakers were losing those 4 games, you seemed so focused on Caruso's limitations , well Rondo cooled down too, in 5 losses Rondo shot 21% from 3pt area, 31%FG% with 25 pts on 32 attempts.
I'm not bashing Rondo and I have defended him against the bigbird etc too just like I have defended Caruso.
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Re: Game 33: Los Angeles Lakers (25-7) vs. Dallas Mavericks (21-10) - 9:30 PM ET 

Post#80 » by kblo247 » Tue Dec 31, 2019 12:30 am

tamaraw08 wrote:
Landsberger wrote:
tamaraw08 wrote:
No one is his right mind would argue your concern. Caruso has been struggling while Rondo has shot well the past month or so and yet Alex has a higher EFG%, TS%, WS than Rondo so far. THey are tied in BPM AND ORTG.
Caruso is playing less minutes/game, takes 4.5 shots down from 7 attempts and yet the team is a + 8.7 PTS, +0.65 EFG% unlike Rondo's negative numbers when he is on the floor.
No a few have grumbled about how limited Derek Fisher was before, averaging under 40% FG, etc but his ability to learn his role, where to cut, rotate on defense etc etc were very beneficial to the Lakers cause before. Of course Derek was also very clutch in the playoffs.


Are you trying to compare Caruso to Fisher? Wow.... and what does Rondo have to do with Caruso's inability to demand attention on the offensive end?

I guess there is no ability to have a fair evaluation of Caruso here. I like the guy but I just don't see what a lot of others see in him. To me he's an easily replaceable role player.... albeit one with a cult following for some reason.


Yes, it sounds crazy to compare Fisher to Caruso if you just look at skill level and type of play but I'm referring to production and role esp when Derek was playing less than 24 mins/game at age 25 averaging 6 pts at 6 shots pretty similar to Caruso's.
I mentioned Rondo bec you seemed to like him way much more and I pointed out that their impact are pretty much the same even though I pointed out the difference of their roles. When the Lakers were losing those 4 games, you seemed so focused on Caruso's limitations , well Rondo cooled down too, in 5 losses Rondo shot 21% from 3pt area, 31%FG% with 25 pts on 32 attempts.
I'm not bashing Rondo and I have defended him against the bigbird etc too just like I have defended Caruso.


Fisher was good enough to start. Fox was good enough to start. Horry was good enough to start. They gave up their roles when Phil came for Rice, HArper, and Green/Horace. In this scenario Caruo isn't comparable, KCP and Kuz are because they are in the same shoes but Caruso is firmly Devean George here, bench guy no matter how you scratch it
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