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Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma

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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#61 » by One Love » Tue Jan 7, 2020 5:52 pm

Do you guys remember our lineup when AD was out... LBJ, Dudley & McGee... We need Kuzz & his $2.0 million contract not a 30 year old Euro making $8.0 million in last year fighting for backcourt minutes... Vogel needs to get Kuzz 28 to 32 minutes a game... Kid is coming off an injury... Let him find a rhythm...

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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#62 » by kblo247 » Tue Jan 7, 2020 6:41 pm

iamworthy wrote:Hopefully in the back of Pelinka's mind he thinking about acquiring a running mate for AD post LeBron.

If that was the thought you try to get LAvine from the Bulls since he has a three year deal, is young, is a dynamic guard with swing size, and has LA ties. Plus he is the guy AD would go play with if he thought about Chicago at all this summer
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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#63 » by zimpy27 » Tue Jan 7, 2020 7:29 pm

If Lakers get Collison then trading Kuzma and Cook for Covington would be a good idea. Covington is currently playing out of position at PF, he's actually an SF and his impact stats have suffered a bit because of it.

The fit would allow all the players to play in their ideal positions.

PG: Collison (24) | Bradley (24)
SG: Green (24) | Caruso (24)
SF: LeBron (12) | Covington (30) | Green (6)
PF: Davis (18) | LeBron (30)
C : Howard (24) | Davis (24)


This would possibly be the best defensive rotation of all time.
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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#64 » by NippySudz » Tue Jan 7, 2020 9:06 pm

Ball so hard wrote:
dockingsched wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
Spoiler:


Why do you hate Kuzma so much? AD is barely making 5 of 10 shots, and that's even when you factor in all the lobs he makes. It's kind of futile to continue to engage you on any Kuzma discussion when it's quite clear that it's impossible for you to be objective.


C’mon now, you can’t compare AD, with his volume and primary scoring role, to Kuzma’s limited volume and supporting role, and you can’t be making that comparison with such a elementary stat like raw fg%. You can’t downplay AD’s lobs as if it’s not AD’s talent that makes those lobs possible.

Everything in your post comes off as unnecessarily defensive about Kuzma and displays an inability to be objective.


I don't think you were following the entire discussion, for which I don't blame you. The OP brought up or at least alluded to raw fg percentage when he said Kuz should be shooting at least 5-10 from the field. My counter was that almost no one holds our superstar player AD to such high standard so I'm not sure why one would expect more from a 20 min per game bench player. Incidentally the OP later admitted 5-10 was probably a bit high.

I don't think anything in my post was defensive. I have a consistent track record of critiquing Kuz. I've never once claimed he's having a good year. I've simply pushed back against those who claim how awful he's been.
5 for 10 was too much but the overall point I was trying to make is that he should be more efficient with the limited touches he's getting.

The Anthony Davis comparison you mentioned is fair from a raw fg% standpoint but Anthony Davis is efficient because he can get cheap points. That's how a player gets more consistent.

He's better than KCP, has a skillset that kcp does not have. Yet kcp is shooting better from the field and better from three in their last ten games.

I expect more for someone that is heralded as the third star in a big three. That's all. At the end of the day.

People bringing up that he's shooting 55% from the corner is nice but ultimately means nothing. It's cherry picked stats. Kuzma is an NBA player. He's going to have strengths and weaknesses. It's all about are they a net gain and increase the teams chances of winning am NBA championship.

That corner shot isn't going to be there every game nor is he going to hit them at a volume clip in one game.



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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#65 » by Danny Darko » Tue Jan 7, 2020 11:12 pm

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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#66 » by Beethoven » Tue Jan 7, 2020 11:27 pm

wow^
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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#67 » by kblo247 » Wed Jan 8, 2020 12:50 am

NippySudz wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
dockingsched wrote:
C’mon now, you can’t compare AD, with his volume and primary scoring role, to Kuzma’s limited volume and supporting role, and you can’t be making that comparison with such a elementary stat like raw fg%. You can’t downplay AD’s lobs as if it’s not AD’s talent that makes those lobs possible.

Everything in your post comes off as unnecessarily defensive about Kuzma and displays an inability to be objective.


I don't think you were following the entire discussion, for which I don't blame you. The OP brought up or at least alluded to raw fg percentage when he said Kuz should be shooting at least 5-10 from the field. My counter was that almost no one holds our superstar player AD to such high standard so I'm not sure why one would expect more from a 20 min per game bench player. Incidentally the OP later admitted 5-10 was probably a bit high.

I don't think anything in my post was defensive. I have a consistent track record of critiquing Kuz. I've never once claimed he's having a good year. I've simply pushed back against those who claim how awful he's been.
5 for 10 was too much but the overall point I was trying to make is that he should be more efficient with the limited touches he's getting.

The Anthony Davis comparison you mentioned is fair from a raw fg% standpoint but Anthony Davis is efficient because he can get cheap points. That's how a player gets more consistent.

He's better than KCP, has a skillset that kcp does not have. Yet kcp is shooting better from the field and better from three in their last ten games.

I expect more for someone that is heralded as the third star in a big three. That's all. At the end of the day.

People bringing up that he's shooting 55% from the corner is nice but ultimately means nothing. It's cherry picked stats. Kuzma is an NBA player. He's going to have strengths and weaknesses. It's all about are they a net gain and increase the teams chances of winning am NBA championship.

That corner shot isn't going to be there every game nor is he going to hit them at a volume clip in one game.



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The thing you ignore is KCP faced the same problem despite being older last year. All of a sudden his shots and minutes got cut and he struggled. He took a year to get right despite being paid basically 30 mil those two seasons. Kuz lost his role, his minutes, and his shot. Then he deals with Rondo

Some numbers to keep in mind with Kuzma:

He averages around 23.5 minutes a night, and 16 of those minutes come with Rondo on the floor. Lots of guys are being impacted in not having a secondary creator behind LeBron, and he's probably been the most.

In the last 7 games (since returning from injury) he's shooting 25% from three with Rondo on the court, but 38% with Rondo off. For the season Kuzma has a +17 Net rating when he's on the floor with LeBron, but -11.5 when he's not.

Basically Kuzma is straight without Rondo, but if you played him with a PG like Collison you will be well off. Essentoially he works well with the ball being moved over being dribbled in a spot and held. I can't tell you how many times Kuz gets missed on his cuts by Rondo
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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#68 » by NippySudz » Wed Jan 8, 2020 12:56 am

kblo247 wrote:
NippySudz wrote:
Ball so hard wrote:
I don't think you were following the entire discussion, for which I don't blame you. The OP brought up or at least alluded to raw fg percentage when he said Kuz should be shooting at least 5-10 from the field. My counter was that almost no one holds our superstar player AD to such high standard so I'm not sure why one would expect more from a 20 min per game bench player. Incidentally the OP later admitted 5-10 was probably a bit high.

I don't think anything in my post was defensive. I have a consistent track record of critiquing Kuz. I've never once claimed he's having a good year. I've simply pushed back against those who claim how awful he's been.
5 for 10 was too much but the overall point I was trying to make is that he should be more efficient with the limited touches he's getting.

The Anthony Davis comparison you mentioned is fair from a raw fg% standpoint but Anthony Davis is efficient because he can get cheap points. That's how a player gets more consistent.

He's better than KCP, has a skillset that kcp does not have. Yet kcp is shooting better from the field and better from three in their last ten games.

I expect more for someone that is heralded as the third star in a big three. That's all. At the end of the day.

People bringing up that he's shooting 55% from the corner is nice but ultimately means nothing. It's cherry picked stats. Kuzma is an NBA player. He's going to have strengths and weaknesses. It's all about are they a net gain and increase the teams chances of winning am NBA championship.

That corner shot isn't going to be there every game nor is he going to hit them at a volume clip in one game.



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The thing you ignore is KCP faced the same problem despite being older last year. All of a sudden his shots and minutes got cut and he struggled. He took a year to get right despite being paid basically 30 mil those two seasons. Kuz lost his role, his minutes, and his shot. Then he deals with Rondo

Some numbers to keep in mind with Kuzma:

He averages around 23.5 minutes a night, and 16 of those minutes come with Rondo on the floor. Lots of guys are being impacted in not having a secondary creator behind LeBron, and he's probably been the most.

In the last 7 games (since returning from injury) he's shooting 25% from three with Rondo on the court, but 38% with Rondo off. For the season Kuzma has a +17 Net rating when he's on the floor with LeBron, but -11.5 when he's not.

Basically Kuzma is straight without Rondo, but if you played him with a PG like Collison you will be well off. Essentoially he works well with the ball being moved over being dribbled in a spot and held. I can't tell you how many times Kuz gets missed on his cuts by Rondo


I was just about to ask for a metric on how much rondo impacts his game. I guess it's super drastic. It's visible watching the game that's for sure but I was like kcp is still somewhat getting his, so kuz who is a better talent should.

Looking at kuzma as a regular NBA player, he's ok. He's fine. He's a rotational player. Not the end of the bench player.

But I analyze him under the third star/budding all star scope. Since only a minority of people here subscribe to that, I'll stop arguing that he's not that.

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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#69 » by kblo247 » Wed Jan 8, 2020 1:33 am

NippySudz wrote:
kblo247 wrote:
NippySudz wrote:5 for 10 was too much but the overall point I was trying to make is that he should be more efficient with the limited touches he's getting.

The Anthony Davis comparison you mentioned is fair from a raw fg% standpoint but Anthony Davis is efficient because he can get cheap points. That's how a player gets more consistent.

He's better than KCP, has a skillset that kcp does not have. Yet kcp is shooting better from the field and better from three in their last ten games.

I expect more for someone that is heralded as the third star in a big three. That's all. At the end of the day.

People bringing up that he's shooting 55% from the corner is nice but ultimately means nothing. It's cherry picked stats. Kuzma is an NBA player. He's going to have strengths and weaknesses. It's all about are they a net gain and increase the teams chances of winning am NBA championship.

That corner shot isn't going to be there every game nor is he going to hit them at a volume clip in one game.



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The thing you ignore is KCP faced the same problem despite being older last year. All of a sudden his shots and minutes got cut and he struggled. He took a year to get right despite being paid basically 30 mil those two seasons. Kuz lost his role, his minutes, and his shot. Then he deals with Rondo

Some numbers to keep in mind with Kuzma:

He averages around 23.5 minutes a night, and 16 of those minutes come with Rondo on the floor. Lots of guys are being impacted in not having a secondary creator behind LeBron, and he's probably been the most.

In the last 7 games (since returning from injury) he's shooting 25% from three with Rondo on the court, but 38% with Rondo off. For the season Kuzma has a +17 Net rating when he's on the floor with LeBron, but -11.5 when he's not.

Basically Kuzma is straight without Rondo, but if you played him with a PG like Collison you will be well off. Essentoially he works well with the ball being moved over being dribbled in a spot and held. I can't tell you how many times Kuz gets missed on his cuts by Rondo


I was just about to ask for a metric on how much rondo impacts his game. I guess it's super drastic. It's visible watching the game that's for sure but I was like kcp is still somewhat getting his, so kuz who is a better talent should.

Looking at kuzma as a regular NBA player, he's ok. He's fine. He's a rotational player. Not the end of the bench player.

But I analyze him under the third star/budding all star scope. Since only a minority of people here subscribe to that, I'll stop arguing that he's not that.

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I get what you are saying but I do not think he is Kobe or Melo. That said I also didn't think Ingram was Pippen or KD. I doidn't think Ball was Kidd or Payton. To me he can basically be a third wheel kind of like Caron Butler or an Antwan Jamison type. I think he is fine if you give him someone who hits him on cuts and makes him feel engaged and that he is trying very hard
to not break the offense.
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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#70 » by NippySudz » Wed Jan 8, 2020 1:48 am

kblo247 wrote:
NippySudz wrote:
kblo247 wrote:
The thing you ignore is KCP faced the same problem despite being older last year. All of a sudden his shots and minutes got cut and he struggled. He took a year to get right despite being paid basically 30 mil those two seasons. Kuz lost his role, his minutes, and his shot. Then he deals with Rondo

Some numbers to keep in mind with Kuzma:

He averages around 23.5 minutes a night, and 16 of those minutes come with Rondo on the floor. Lots of guys are being impacted in not having a secondary creator behind LeBron, and he's probably been the most.

In the last 7 games (since returning from injury) he's shooting 25% from three with Rondo on the court, but 38% with Rondo off. For the season Kuzma has a +17 Net rating when he's on the floor with LeBron, but -11.5 when he's not.

Basically Kuzma is straight without Rondo, but if you played him with a PG like Collison you will be well off. Essentoially he works well with the ball being moved over being dribbled in a spot and held. I can't tell you how many times Kuz gets missed on his cuts by Rondo


I was just about to ask for a metric on how much rondo impacts his game. I guess it's super drastic. It's visible watching the game that's for sure but I was like kcp is still somewhat getting his, so kuz who is a better talent should.

Looking at kuzma as a regular NBA player, he's ok. He's fine. He's a rotational player. Not the end of the bench player.

But I analyze him under the third star/budding all star scope. Since only a minority of people here subscribe to that, I'll stop arguing that he's not that.

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I get what you are saying but I do not think he is Kobe or Melo. That said I also didn't think Ingram was Pippen or KD. I doidn't think Ball was Kidd or Payton. To me he can basically be a third wheel kind of like Caron Butler or an Antwan Jamison type. I think he is fine if you give him someone who hits him on cuts and makes him feel engaged and that he is trying very hard
to not break the offense.


Weren't those guys former all stars? I wouldn't make that comparison but I guess comparing him to those players is better than saying he's part of a big three. I don't think many People would argue and say Caron or Jamison are untouchable. I don't see him being an all-star at least not in the west but I do see him being a lot better than what he's currently is right now.

I see a few people talking about kuzma injuries and how valid it may or may not be, no one is going to care.

Several teams/players are dealing with injury bugs.

If the Lakers lose(to any team) and kuzma underperforms, the majority aren't going to say well, he had injuries, missed training camp, trying to find his identity etc.

They're just going to give it to kuzma. I believe the same people that are ardently defending him are going to turn on him. That's my opinion.



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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#71 » by kblo247 » Wed Jan 8, 2020 1:54 am

NippySudz wrote:
kblo247 wrote:
NippySudz wrote:
I was just about to ask for a metric on how much rondo impacts his game. I guess it's super drastic. It's visible watching the game that's for sure but I was like kcp is still somewhat getting his, so kuz who is a better talent should.

Looking at kuzma as a regular NBA player, he's ok. He's fine. He's a rotational player. Not the end of the bench player.

But I analyze him under the third star/budding all star scope. Since only a minority of people here subscribe to that, I'll stop arguing that he's not that.

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I get what you are saying but I do not think he is Kobe or Melo. That said I also didn't think Ingram was Pippen or KD. I doidn't think Ball was Kidd or Payton. To me he can basically be a third wheel kind of like Caron Butler or an Antwan Jamison type. I think he is fine if you give him someone who hits him on cuts and makes him feel engaged and that he is trying very hard
to not break the offense.


Weren't those guys former all stars? I wouldn't make that comparison but I guess comparing him to those players is better than saying he's part of a big three. I don't think many People would argue and say Caron or Jamison are untouchable. I don't see him being an all-star at least not in the west but I do see him being a lot better than what he's currently is right now.

I see a few people talking about kuzma injuries and how valid it may or may not be, no one is going to care.

Several teams/players are dealing with injury bugs.

If the Lakers lose(to any team) and kuzma underperforms, the majority aren't going to say well, he had injuries, missed training camp, trying to find his identity etc.

They're just going to give it to kuzma. I believe the same people that are ardently defending him are going to turn on him. That's my opinion.

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Jamison took years to be an all star and he went through his own struggles as a siixth man in Dallas with Dirk, Nash, Walker which people forget before Washington. Butler played well in Miami, struggled with Miami, got better and started showing primise with the Lakers, and put it otgether later in Washington. It took them 4 years or so and changes in roles tro get comfortable is my point. Jamison especially stands out to me because of the movememnt Kuz uses and his touch around the basket. Much like Kuz he took off early in GSW (remember the Kobe duel), struggled at times in Dallas, and then got it in Washington. I think Kuz will get it and he will be an all star but I don't see superstar. To me Kobe, Melo, Payton, Kidd, KD were superstars that made perennial all star teams whereas a Butler, Jamison were just all stars and I tyhink Kuz fits that mold (same with Zo and Ingram to be fair)
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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#72 » by Landsberger » Wed Jan 8, 2020 3:02 am

If anyone should be traded I vote for Green. I've not been impressed with him for what he costs. He doesn't have a NTC either. He seems fairly easy to replace with people already on the team.
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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#73 » by Beethoven » Wed Jan 8, 2020 8:00 pm

Green, Rondo, and Lebron are playoff performers. We got Green for that reason, and we arent even there yet to even utilize him for that purpose. He's holding down the fort in his position quite ok for now.

Landsberger wrote:If anyone should be traded I vote for Green. I've not been impressed with him for what he costs. He doesn't have a NTC either. He seems fairly easy to replace with people already on the team.
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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#74 » by Doug_12 » Wed Jan 8, 2020 9:21 pm

zimpy27 wrote:If Lakers get Collison then trading Kuzma and Cook for Covington would be a good idea. Covington is currently playing out of position at PF, he's actually an SF and his impact stats have suffered a bit because of it.

The fit would allow all the players to play in their ideal positions.

PG: Collison (24) | Bradley (24)
SG: Green (24) | Caruso (24)
SF: LeBron (12) | Covington (30) | Green (6)
PF: Davis (18) | LeBron (30)
C : Howard (24) | Davis (24)


This would possibly be the best defensive rotation of all time.

Where is KCP? He is arguably the best guard we have right now? Apart from that I'd love that trade, and I'd throw Bradley in as well to sweeten it: In case we sign Collison we wouldn't really give him heavy minutes. And to be honest I love seeing Caruso in the lineup more than seeing Bradley... He is not turning over the ball too many times but somehow - looking at his game - it feels like he is one of our more TO-prone guys. I always have the impression that he doesn't know what he is expected to do.

I'd love this rotation and we would jump a tier higher immediately:
Collison/Caruso/Rondo
Green/KCP
Lebron/Covington
Davis/Dudley
McGee/Howard

In the PO:
Starters: Collison, Green, Lebron, Davis, McGee
Bench: KCP, Covington, Howard

We would be a very hard matchup against anyone.
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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#76 » by zimpy27 » Wed Jan 8, 2020 10:05 pm

Doug_12 wrote:
zimpy27 wrote:If Lakers get Collison then trading Kuzma and Cook for Covington would be a good idea. Covington is currently playing out of position at PF, he's actually an SF and his impact stats have suffered a bit because of it.

The fit would allow all the players to play in their ideal positions.

PG: Collison (24) | Bradley (24)
SG: Green (24) | Caruso (24)
SF: LeBron (12) | Covington (30) | Green (6)
PF: Davis (18) | LeBron (30)
C : Howard (24) | Davis (24)


This would possibly be the best defensive rotation of all time.

Where is KCP? He is arguably the best guard we have right now? Apart from that I'd love that trade, and I'd throw Bradley in as well to sweeten it: In case we sign Collison we wouldn't really give him heavy minutes. And to be honest I love seeing Caruso in the lineup more than seeing Bradley... He is not turning over the ball too many times but somehow - looking at his game - it feels like he is one of our more TO-prone guys. I always have the impression that he doesn't know what he is expected to do.

I'd love this rotation and we would jump a tier higher immediately:
Collison/Caruso/Rondo
Green/KCP
Lebron/Covington
Davis/Dudley
McGee/Howard

In the PO:
Starters: Collison, Green, Lebron, Davis, McGee
Bench: KCP, Covington, Howard

We would be a very hard matchup against anyone.


KCP hasn't been very good for the season length, he's improved recently but it's a small sample size.

Bradley isn't as good a 3-point shooter but he can go and get a bucket. That's something the Lakers probably need to hold on to for now.
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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#77 » by NippySudz » Thu Jan 9, 2020 12:07 am

[Stealth edit]

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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#78 » by Kilroy » Thu Jan 9, 2020 12:49 am

Sure... But who gives a **** what "fans around the league" think...
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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#79 » by NippySudz » Thu Jan 9, 2020 1:06 am

Kilroy wrote:Sure... But who gives a **** what "fans around the league" think...
Fair point

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Re: Amick: Lakers listening to offers for Kuzma 

Post#80 » by Penberthy » Thu Jan 9, 2020 4:35 am

TylersLakers wrote:
iamworthy wrote:
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Yes please!!!!


I've talked about this deal as one of the only deals around the league that make any sense for Kuz. Luke likes him, he's on a cheap contract for the next couple seasons, etc.

We'd also have to give up Bradley to match salaries. I would also want a draft pick back, if I'm the Lakers. Maybe a 2021 1st or something that's Top 10 protected for Sacramento.


2023 1st (Bronny)

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