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I honestly dont get the desperate desire to trade Kuz for Marcus Morris.. I think fans were just so desperate for a move that they would have traded Kuz for a bag of chips just to make some kind of change.

Marcus Morris was a career 12 n 4 guy. Sure hes having career high numbers this season on the lowly Knicks, putting up 19 n 5. But this is as a starting first option on a terrible team. You know who also put up those numbers??? Kuzma just last year. Kuz put up 18.7 n 6 last year when he was starting and had offensive freedom.

If Lakers want Kuz to be the 3rd option then they need to give him the opportunity to be one. Meaning they need to start him and play him +30 min/game. What other 3rd option on a contending team do you know that comes off the bench and plays 20-25 min/game?!? We rarely see the Kuz/AD lineup now. The problem here is AD and his hatred to play the 5. Kuz would be much better/comfortable in the starting role playing 30 mins a game. He would at least have an opportunity to be the 3rd option we are desperately looking for. Asking him to fulfill that role off the bench in 20-25 mins is unfair.

Truth be told, if we had AD locked up for a few years I believe we would have already made this move and moved Kuz to the 4. Lakers wont do that this year as their main goal is to make sure AD resigns. Which leaves Kuz trying to figure it out with sporadic minutes off the bench.... which hasnt been consisently working so far...

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I would rather trade Kuzma for a real guard than move AD to center. Pelinka really failed at the trade deadline.

If its a legit guard .. like beal or someone of that caliber... Then yeah. But marcus morris?!?? No chance. You are supposed to sell high not low.. and im convinced one of the reasons for Kuz's sporadic play is self inflicted by the Lakers.

The whole pt of my post is that if we expect Kuz to be the 3rd option then we need to give him the oppty to succed as one. Meaning play him like a 3rd option. Give him more than 20-25 min/game. Kuz has more to offer than what we are seeing. Hes our only young talent.. lets not give up on him yet.. especially for someone like Morris .. in that regard.. Pelinka succeeded in not getting that deal done..


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I really don't get why people are putting so much hope and pressure on third yr player late first round pick.

Hes not a terrible player but I don't believe he's a win now player. He hasn't been given time to make mistakes and really learn from them.

I can't see how this is on AD. I only blame kuz himself for playing with Lack of energy and focus some games and the Coaching staff for not putting him in position to succeed. Not running plays for him to get on a rhythm.



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One of the reasons the FO is wanting to get rid of Kuzma is because they have no intention of re-signing him.... competent 3rd option or not. He comes up for his next contact when we want a 3rd max guy.

The FO has had a fixation on having 3 top level stars.... what you surround them with when we have no picks and will have next to nothing to spend I don't know but that seems to still be the focus.

Davis isn't the one stopping Kuz from succeeding. If anyone it's LeBron and our system. That isn't changing. Kuz will get 8-12 shots a game most nights. That's about what anyone will get here after Bron and Davis. You can plug in any supposed better 3rd option and get the same opportunity.

As for Kuzma... he's worth more at the Draft/FA period. Expect him to be moved then.

AD is getting a lot of heat lately... It's really mind boggling.
Of course AD isn't preventing Kuz from succeeding... That's silly.

The FO was dangling him in trade because he's basically all we have to trade of any perceived value.

And we absolutely needed a trade.

But I honestly don't know if the FO will give him a new contract or not... I can't get a read on how this FO values him. One time it's like he's untouchable, the next he's available... I think some team is going to offer a lot more than we want to pay, but I think we'd be surprised how high the FO is willing to go.
This isn't what I think they should do, just my read on the situation.

Like Ty, if I had an idea Iggy wasn't coming, I'd have been scouring the market for a good, scoring Guard, 1 or 2 to pair with LeBron. Our biggest needs are shooting and a better system on both ends of the floor.

Not sure why we couldn't at least get a deal for Rose done.

Landsberger wrote:One of the reasons the FO is wanting to get rid of Kuzma is because they have no intention of re-signing him.... competent 3rd option or not. He comes up for his next contact when we want a 3rd max guy.

The FO has had a fixation on having 3 top level stars.... what you surround them with when we have no picks and will have next to nothing to spend I don't know but that seems to still be the focus.

Davis isn't the one stopping Kuz from succeeding. If anyone it's LeBron and our system. That isn't changing. Kuz will get 8-12 shots a game most nights. That's about what anyone will get here after Bron and Davis. You can plug in any supposed better 3rd option and get the same opportunity.

As for Kuzma... he's worth more at the Draft/FA period. Expect him to be moved then.

Thank you. The problem with the lakers offense is Lebron ball.

There is no system in place to get everybody into rhythm. Basketball is a rhythm game. Everybody plays with some sort of rhythm to get them going. They need to touch the ball to find it. In the last game, Kuz went 3 straight possessions without even touching the ball until he was gifted an end of the quarter heave. How is anyone supposed to find their rhythm when they barely touch the ball? Im not talking about shots. Im just talking about touching the ball.

Its classic Lebron ball, great for shooters but horrible for playmakers because Lebron likes to dribble the clock down then hand you a grenade with less than 6 secs left. Its great against the weaker teams; its complete **** against the elite teams. This is the way Lebron likes to play.

Kilroy wrote:AD is getting a lot of heat lately... It's really mind boggling.
Of course AD isn't preventing Kuz from succeeding... That's silly.

The FO was dangling him in trade because he's basically all we have to trade of any perceived value.

And we absolutely needed a trade.

But I honestly don't know if the FO will give him a new contract or not... I can't get a read on how this FO values him. One time it's like he's untouchable, the next he's available... I think some team is going to offer a lot more than we want to pay, but I think we'd be surprised how high the FO is willing to go.
This isn't what I think they should do, just my read on the situation.

Like Ty, if I had an idea Iggy wasn't coming, I'd have been scouring the market for a good, scoring Guard, 1 or 2 to pair with LeBron. Our biggest needs are shooting and a better system on both ends of the floor.

Not sure why we couldn't at least get a deal for Rose done.

Rose did not want to be here. Ramona said, Shams said it, and Windhorst said it. They all said Rose said he did not want to leave Detroit or be traded. Again Rose outright left and went MIA last time he was with Bron and the last time before that too in a big media market in NY. If he says I don't want to be dealt, he won't go to the circus that is LA and if you force him, he will likely run away.

Landsberger wrote:One of the reasons the FO is wanting to get rid of Kuzma is because they have no intention of re-signing him.... competent 3rd option or not. He comes up for his next contact when we want a 3rd max guy.

The FO has had a fixation on having 3 top level stars.... what you surround them with when we have no picks and will have next to nothing to spend I don't know but that seems to still be the focus.

Davis isn't the one stopping Kuz from succeeding. If anyone it's LeBron and our system. That isn't changing. Kuz will get 8-12 shots a game most nights. That's about what anyone will get here after Bron and Davis. You can plug in any supposed better 3rd option and get the same opportunity.

As for Kuzma... he's worth more at the Draft/FA period. Expect him to be moved then.

.

That's if LeBron is around long enough because he will be old as dirt.

Kuzma isn’t good enough to be labeled as someone being “held back”.

His talent, current skill set, and performances are what hold him back.

He's a **** lottery team guy. He's what Christian Wood, Julius Randle and countless other dudes like that are.
Empty stats and who don't translate to wins.

He has close to no impact on this team winning ball games. If he wasn't around even without adding anyone, we would be close to the same team. He will never impact severely a championship level squad because he simply isn't good enough at anything.

Let him get his 20 pts with nothing else on another team, if we're 'holding him back' to do that here.

dockingsched wrote:Kuzma isn’t good enough to be labeled as someone being “held back”.

His talent, current skill set, and performances are what hold him back.

Not sure I agree with this. He's the 3rd most talented and complete player on our team. The gap is large but it isn't as if he's a typical role player. He's shown he can score efficiently at about 18 a game. He's grown a lot defensively. He's not a best player on a team sort of guy but in the right situation he's a guy who could give a team up to 20 a game in the right role.

I think this year's performance has a lot to do with opportunity and system than it does with any sort of "regression". Fans here are pissed because he isn't doing what he did last year or he isn't shooting X% from 3. Kuz is still a valuable player... just not to this Coach it seems.

I don't see him here beyond this summer. If he lands somewhere more aligned with what he can do well you'll see his production return and probably exceed what he did here last year.

I still contend we could bring in anyone averaging 15-18 elsewhere and turn them into a 12 point player regardless of skillset. This system is firmly set up around 2 guys. We'll win or lose with them. Hopefully we can get at least 2 good performances per game from the support staff. If we do we'll still be very hard to beat. That's how good those 2 are.

dockingsched wrote:Kuzma isn’t good enough to be labeled as someone being “held back”.

His talent, current skill set, and performances are what hold him back.

We don't know what Kuz can do because he isn't allowed to do much besides space the floor. When given opportunities, they are very sporadic and inconsistent. It's extremely tough for any player to perform under those conditions. In the HOU game, he went 3 straight possessions without touching the ball. The only opportunities to shoot were at the end of the quarter heaves. In yesterday's game, we got a glimpse of Kuz the playmaker. He only gets to show flashes of what he can do, but it is never consistent due to the lack of touches.

The problem I have with Lebron centered offenses is that they aren't any opportunities to develop guys because Lebron has the ball most of the time. The Lakers need Kuz to perform especially in the playoffs. They are supposed to develop him in the reg season to get him ready, comfortable, and instill confidence in this kid come playoff time. Again, his opportunities are very sporadic. It's easy to blame the coaching staff, but Lebron only knows how to play one way. He's been successful playing that way his whole career. He isn't going to change that for anyone.

During the Kobe-Pau era, the Lakers were able to develop trash players like Luke Walton, Sasha Vujavic, Jordan Farmar, Shannon Brown into key rotation players that each made their own contributions to the team. The key is that the triangle allowed them to have defined roles, touches, and confidence to perform in each respective role under the confines of the triangle. They knew where their opportunities would come from. On the other hand, Kuz doesn't know anything. He doesn't even know if he's going to touch the ball. It's brutal.

Plenty of Laker fans wrote off DLO; he made an all star team. Plenty of fans wrote off BI, now he's an allstar. Lonzo improved. Kuz can too if given the opportunity.

infintybeyond wrote:

dockingsched wrote:Kuzma isn’t good enough to be labeled as someone being “held back”.

His talent, current skill set, and performances are what hold him back.

We don't know what Kuz can do because he isn't allowed to do much besides space the floor. When given opportunities, they are very sporadic and inconsistent. It's extremely tough for any player to perform under those conditions. In the HOU game, he went 3 straight possessions without touching the ball. The only opportunities to shoot were at the end of the quarter heaves. In yesterday's game, we got a glimpse of Kuz the playmaker. He only gets to show flashes of what he can do, but it is never consistent due to the lack of touches.

The problem I have with Lebron centered offenses is that they aren't any opportunities to develop guys because Lebron has the ball most of the time. The Lakers need Kuz to perform especially in the playoffs. They are supposed to develop him in the reg season to get him ready, comfortable, and instill confidence in this kid come playoff time. Again, his opportunities are very sporadic. It's easy to blame the coaching staff, but Lebron only knows how to play one way. He's been successful playing that way his whole career. He isn't going to change that for anyone.

During the Kobe-Pau era, the Lakers were able to develop trash players like Luke Walton, Sasha Vujavic, Jordan Farmar, Shannon Brown into key rotation players that each made their own contributions to the team. The key is that the triangle allowed them to have defined roles, touches, and confidence to perform in each respective role under the confines of the triangle. They knew where their opportunities would come from. On the other hand, Kuz doesn't know anything. He doesn't even know if he's going to touch the ball. It's brutal.

Plenty of Laker fans wrote off DLO; he made an all star team. Plenty of fans wrote off BI, now he's an allstar. Lonzo improved. Kuz can too if given the opportunity.

The game Davis and Bron were out we got a glimpse.

As for DLO... he may be an allstar but he's on his 4 team in 5 years as well. Not sure that shows that he is an invaluable asset.

Landsberger wrote:

infintybeyond wrote:

dockingsched wrote:Kuzma isn’t good enough to be labeled as someone being “held back”.

His talent, current skill set, and performances are what hold him back.

We don't know what Kuz can do because he isn't allowed to do much besides space the floor. When given opportunities, they are very sporadic and inconsistent. It's extremely tough for any player to perform under those conditions. In the HOU game, he went 3 straight possessions without touching the ball. The only opportunities to shoot were at the end of the quarter heaves. In yesterday's game, we got a glimpse of Kuz the playmaker. He only gets to show flashes of what he can do, but it is never consistent due to the lack of touches.

The problem I have with Lebron centered offenses is that they aren't any opportunities to develop guys because Lebron has the ball most of the time. The Lakers need Kuz to perform especially in the playoffs. They are supposed to develop him in the reg season to get him ready, comfortable, and instill confidence in this kid come playoff time. Again, his opportunities are very sporadic. It's easy to blame the coaching staff, but Lebron only knows how to play one way. He's been successful playing that way his whole career. He isn't going to change that for anyone.

During the Kobe-Pau era, the Lakers were able to develop trash players like Luke Walton, Sasha Vujavic, Jordan Farmar, Shannon Brown into key rotation players that each made their own contributions to the team. The key is that the triangle allowed them to have defined roles, touches, and confidence to perform in each respective role under the confines of the triangle. They knew where their opportunities would come from. On the other hand, Kuz doesn't know anything. He doesn't even know if he's going to touch the ball. It's brutal.

Plenty of Laker fans wrote off DLO; he made an all star team. Plenty of fans wrote off BI, now he's an allstar. Lonzo improved. Kuz can too if given the opportunity.

The game Davis and Bron were out we got a glimpse.

As for DLO... he may be an allstar but he's on his 4 team in 5 years as well. Not sure that shows that he is an invaluable asset.

My point was that as Laker fans, we are impatient and we sometimes forget that it takes time and opportunity to develop talent. Plenty of fans put the "bust" label on DLO, BI, and Lonzo, but all 3 have improved since their time in LA. Before fans begin to write off Kuz, DLO, BI, and Lonzo are examples of ex Lakers improving.

infintybeyond wrote:

Landsberger wrote:

infintybeyond wrote:We don't know what Kuz can do because he isn't allowed to do much besides space the floor. When given opportunities, they are very sporadic and inconsistent. It's extremely tough for any player to perform under those conditions. In the HOU game, he went 3 straight possessions without touching the ball. The only opportunities to shoot were at the end of the quarter heaves. In yesterday's game, we got a glimpse of Kuz the playmaker. He only gets to show flashes of what he can do, but it is never consistent due to the lack of touches.

The problem I have with Lebron centered offenses is that they aren't any opportunities to develop guys because Lebron has the ball most of the time. The Lakers need Kuz to perform especially in the playoffs. They are supposed to develop him in the reg season to get him ready, comfortable, and instill confidence in this kid come playoff time. Again, his opportunities are very sporadic. It's easy to blame the coaching staff, but Lebron only knows how to play one way. He's been successful playing that way his whole career. He isn't going to change that for anyone.

During the Kobe-Pau era, the Lakers were able to develop trash players like Luke Walton, Sasha Vujavic, Jordan Farmar, Shannon Brown into key rotation players that each made their own contributions to the team. The key is that the triangle allowed them to have defined roles, touches, and confidence to perform in each respective role under the confines of the triangle. They knew where their opportunities would come from. On the other hand, Kuz doesn't know anything. He doesn't even know if he's going to touch the ball. It's brutal.

Plenty of Laker fans wrote off DLO; he made an all star team. Plenty of fans wrote off BI, now he's an allstar. Lonzo improved. Kuz can too if given the opportunity.

The game Davis and Bron were out we got a glimpse.

As for DLO... he may be an allstar but he's on his 4 team in 5 years as well. Not sure that shows that he is an invaluable asset.

My point was that as Laker fans, we are impatient and we sometimes forget that it takes time and opportunity to develop talent. Plenty of fans put the "bust" label on DLO, BI, and Lonzo, but all 3 have improved since their time in LA. Before fans begin to write off Kuz, DLO, BI, and Lonzo are examples of ex Lakers improving.

I get it. Laker fans have wanted to find the next all time great to build around... well.. at least I have. Not having Russell, Ingram and Ball here is just fine with me even with the issue we all see with this team. The young guys were never going to grow into this type of team. They will each have long and productive careers but none of them was a guy to build around IMHO.

Kuzma will improve just by being in a situation that aligns with is skillset. It's obvious that it isn't this one. We won't re-sign him so the most valuable he'll be to us is just before the draft. That's when we'll see him traded IMO.

I'm personally of the opinion Kuz is holding himself back... He's always trying to do a little too much instead of just playing his role.
He hops around on offense and get's travel calls, he's always trying to make the ill advised extra pass instead of just shooting over his guy, or he's trying to throw the long outlet pass or ally-oop and it sails 10ft off target, or he shoots 3feet farther out that he needs to...
On D he hops around and gets twisted up, or makes one switch too many, or over commits...
There's always just something 'extra' about everything he does, and it gets in the way of his performance...

The problem isn't LeBron/AD, though that should be obvious. The problem, like most of the Lakers' problems, is Rajon Rondo. The AD/Rondo/Kuzma lineup has a -7.9 net rating. The LeBron/AD/Kuzma lineup has a +18.2 net rating. The LeBron/Kuzma lineup has a +14.7 net rating, compared to a +4.1 net rating for the Rondo/Kuzma net rating. The idea that "LeBron ball" is holding Kuzma back is as silly as it gets. The LeBron/Kuzma lineups have been killing it this year.

thebigbird wrote:The problem isn't LeBron/AD, though that should be obvious. The problem, like most of the Lakers' problems, is Rajon Rondo. The AD/Rondo/Kuzma lineup has a -7.9 net rating. The LeBron/AD/Kuzma lineup has a +18.2 net rating. The LeBron/Kuzma lineup has a +14.7 net rating, compared to a +4.1 net rating for the Rondo/Kuzma net rating. The idea that "LeBron ball" is holding Kuzma back is as silly as it gets. The LeBron/Kuzma lineups have been killing it this year.

I agree with this. People always talk about kuzma being successful as a result of sting with lonzo..well, you got one of the best playmakers of all time in LeBron. LeBron isn't **** up his game.

I believe it's kuzma himself and the lack of a playmaker in the second unit, coaching staff(not running plays for him to keep him engaged..sometimes kuz looks bored if he's not involved in the action)

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Kilroy wrote:I'm personally of the opinion Kuz is holding himself back... He's always trying to do a little too much instead of just playing his role.
He hops around on offense and get's travel calls, he's always trying to make the ill advised extra pass instead of just shooting over his guy, or he's trying to throw the long outlet pass or ally-oop and it sails 10ft off target, or he shoots 3feet farther out that he needs to...
On D he hops around and gets twisted up, or makes one switch too many, or over commits...
There's always just something 'extra' about everything he does, and it gets in the way of his performance...

I think that's a little overblown. His defense has been very good and consistent all year. Effort has not been an issue.

I agree he's overthinking it on offense precisely because he's being told to be Danny Green 2.0 and do nothing but space the floor and immediately toss the ball back to LeBron. He's not playing his natural game because it's not wanted. He's not a natural passer yet he overpasses. This is coming from the staff IMHO. Rather than mold his time on the floor around him they want just another minion in the fold.

That said, It's worked great to this point and probably will going forward. This recent malaise has more to do with Kobe than it does with the team as a whole or Kuzma specifically IMHO. I think they will focus after the break. In the playoffs this team will go as far as Lebron can take them. That's how it's been constructed and how it will be played out.