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Wilt

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Kilroy
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Wilt 

Post#1 » by Kilroy » Mon May 18, 2020 6:47 pm

I was wasting time and came across this...


As we go through the MJ final dance years and all that greatness is relived, it makes me think about Wilt, and wonder if, even as we're starting to hear some 'Kareem was better than MJ' rumblings from a select few people, if we're being fair to Wilt...
I remember as a kid, growing up watching Magic, Kareem, Bird, MJ etc... Even by the time MJ was starting to really get GOAT consideration, there was still sort of this accepted, awestruck, kind of understanding that there was only one true GOAT and that was Wilt... He was kind of spoken of as an Alien or a God walking the earth... Like he was the best basketball player to ever play the game, but it almost didn't count because he was this freak-monster that should have had to play on 12' baskets or something.
Like for regular people, MJ was the Goat...

But when we mention Wilt most people today think all the stories about him must be complete BS... So I found this video with actual first hand accounts of some of the crazy **** he did.. The numbers are insane.

I also remember, both Kareem and Kobe repeatedly called Wilt the greatest ever.
And *Spoiler*... At the end of the video Bill Russell has something to say on the matter... 8-)

At the end of the day, I find myself getting less interested in the GOAT discussion... I hate that if you pick one great, somehow you have to diss another great in the process in order to justify it... It's a bit gross all things considered.

But I thought I'd post this because I remember how Wilt was spoken of as a kid, and it seems kind of a shame that no one talks about him like that today.
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Re: Wilt 

Post#2 » by Landsberger » Tue May 19, 2020 3:28 pm

I never saw Wilt play live or on TV either but what he did as a scorer was nothing short of amazing. His dominance over his era was by biggest gap than any other player IMHO. The thing about Wilt that shows to me something about him was the fact that he played on so many teams... especially for that era. Usually GOAT types stick and have long runs of success. That never seemed to follow him for some reason.

Kareem's "greatness" was different. I think his career high was 55 and he had just a handful of games over 50 in his career. Longevity, consistency and the ability to make shots in pressure situations made him great. Kareem's length of time being the top player in the game and an even longer run as the top center is what sets him apart.

MJ was the freakishly athletic guy who learned how to dominate. A lot of guys came in with that level of athleticism but none worked on their fundamentals like MJ. They got a great fitting team around him and he flat out dominated for a decade.

A guy who had a dominance streak sidelined by drugs, alcohol and injuries was Maravich. I grew up in ATL when he was there and he was the evolution of Baylor and the Big O in that he could do just about anything on the court. Magic and Jordan both pointed to him as an inspiration in their games. What he did in college was unreal. 44 point average (in 40 minutes) overall and when he was a freshman he scored over 60 against LSU's varsity team (which was ranked at the time) in their season starting exhibition game. If you extrapolate his 44 point average over 3 college seasons to a 48 minute game vs 40 in college he would be at 50.85 a game. That's insane.

Arguments on who's "greater" are all subjective at some point. Performance vs the era they played in Wilt was by far the most dominant ever.... sorry Shaq. Maravich was probably the most dominant college player ever. MJ was unstoppable for most of his career and had a mental approach like few ever as well. Kareem was great for a long time and elevated his play with pressure. Magic, in many ways saved the NBA and evolved the game of guards from Baylor/Oscar/Maravich into showtime. Kobe had a long run of being dominant and had a 3 year string of being one of the most dominant scorers ever. Lebron is showing that he can be great for a long time as well. Mikan was dominant in his time as was Pettit.

I'd put MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Kobe and Bron in the discussion for GOAT with Magic, Bird, Oscar, Russell, Baylor and Pettit in a group close behind. Some people like to look at championships in this conversation some don't (I don't particularly because 6 teams have over 60% of them). It's always an interesting discussion..... that devolves into a non interesting one eventually.
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Re: Wilt 

Post#3 » by danfantastk32 » Mon Jun 8, 2020 8:41 am

Not just his scoring, but the crazy rebound averages. Wilt was a stat-sheet beast.

Do guys like Wilt, Kareem, Russell get hit because they don't bring the ball up? MJ, Magic, Kobe, etc have the advantage of handling the ball, and therefore always get first bite on any play.

My problem with Wilt, and Russell are two-fold: Firstly, I never saw either play, and I didn't get to see the league at that time. I just can't call them the greatest ever.....as I have no idea what I'm talking about with them. And therefore, whoever I do personally crown as the GOAT is just that. Personal. I wanna go MJ...he's the 'fave' in this argument.....but I also remember those times, and how the NBA hitched themselves to the MJ train. It wasn't always the calls he got...but the defense he got away with. That said...those were damn good Eastern Playoff series back in the days. Epic battles with great teams all over the place.

My second issue with Wilt and Russell is that there is a point where success becomes 'too great' , and it starts to undercut your own argument. Case in point: 8 straight titles by the Goombas. I'm sorry....8 straight? 8 straight? At some point, instead of thinking its amazing....I start to wonder what must have been wrong with the league, and it's strength. Was Russell just that good, or did they spend 3-times everyone else..in an era with only 8 teams, and half of them not even hiring the best talent, but went for hires they thought would bring crowds? I can't really ever know.

Same goes for Wilt. Besides having several seasons with just crazy PPG averages....the guy's also dragging down 22-25 rebounds a game as well. It's starts to become TOO MUCH, and again...I start to wonder if this was more of a case of a guy who was just ahead of his time. Would Wilt be much more than above average in today's game? Since I never saw....I will never know.

I would love to see Wilt in a modern game...prob more than any other mythical scenario I can dream up in the sports world. It would be great to see. I think he would come across as incredibly slow, and lumbering....but maybe he'd be really fundamentally sound, and just go all T-Duncan on the modern players. I'd certainly root for a 30 and 20 game out of the guy.
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Re: Wilt 

Post#4 » by Landsberger » Mon Jun 8, 2020 2:40 pm

The 60's had the NBA between 9 and 14 teams. Interesting that the Celtics were not the best regular season team in many of those championship years. They were as low as 4th seed (only 4 from each conference in those days) on their championship runs. They were consistently very good but not best team in the league record wise year in and year out. They did dominate in the playoffs, and of course, in championships.

A couple theories come to mind about that era. Concentrated talent in just 9-14 teams and Wilt and Russell stood out in that respect. Imagine if the talent of todays game was distilled into 9 teams and one player averaged 50 a game.

Second theory is that game was still very young in the respect that there was less developmental time for the players and the NBA was somewhat hanging on for dear life year in and year out back then. A player with a complete game on both ends stood out in comparison to players in roles.

Anyway, I'd find it hard for 2/3 of the NBA players today to average 50 a game over 80 games against the local YMCA rec leagues. That is massively impressive any way you look at it.
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Re: Wilt 

Post#5 » by danfantastk32 » Wed Jun 10, 2020 5:42 am

Landsberger wrote:Anyway, I'd find it hard for 2/3 of the NBA players today to average 50 a game over 80 games against the local YMCA rec leagues. That is massively impressive any way you look at it.


True...good point.
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Re: Wilt 

Post#6 » by TJM217 » Fri Jun 12, 2020 1:10 am

Man great video. Thanks for digging that up. I would kill to see Wilt in a modern game. I think he would still dominate tho. I don’t think he would have scored as much but with modern day double teams he would be passing a lot more.

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