How much can we offer Drummond ?

[Eric Bieniemy]

Gasol, a healthy Davis, Markieff Morris, and a "fill-in" fourth center is all they need at the 5. That fourth center could very easily be Howard.

The Lakers don't need to make a big splash at the center position. They need a scoring/penetrating guard who can lead and shoot, and they need a 3&D wing on the cheap.

Subtracting Schroder, Drummond, Harrell, and Kuzma ... and adding guys like Rose, Howard, and Mo Harkless would solve their issues:

Rose/Tucker
Pope/McLemore
Gasol/Morris/Howard
Davis/Harkless
James/Caruso/Matthews

[Doug_12]

Yeah it's not perfect but you get your shooting bigs.

Next decision is what to do with 1 - 3. You have LeBron, THT, Caruso likely staying and it's worth bringing Matthews back.

Does the team want to keep Schröder+KCP or move them for Kemba?

I don't like Kemba too much, but at least his contract is not too long. However I beleive it's not allowed to sign and trade someone w/ another player, so if we would like to do this, we would need to find a 3rd team and execute this in 2 trades and probably not at the same time. It would be quite difficult.

I'd personally let Schröder go and try to sign Lowry w/ the MLE.

Something like this: Turner + filler for Harrell+Kuzma

Turner/Dieng/Gasol
Davis/Markieff
Lebron/Niang/McKinnie
KCP/Horton-Tucker/Matthews
Caruso/Lowry

- Turner is not going for a package like that. Turner is not attainable for the Lakers, they don't have the assets.
- You can package multiple people with an SnT player
- Lakers can't receive an SnT player otherwise they are hardcapped, if hardcapped they won't be able to bring THT and Caruso back

You could ship out Schroeder, Harrell, THT, Caruso, Kuzma, KCP, pick 22 and bring in Turner and Lowry.
They would Lowry, Mckinnie, LeBron, Davis, Turner, Gasol. Then have 13m to fill out 9 minimum players to fit under hardcap.

Thx, I don't know from where did I get that we cannot package anyone in an s'n't.

This is of course way too much. I mean I wouldn't consider sign and trading for Lowry for example. He is 35, he has like 1 or 2 more years left in the tank. Any contract covering more than 2 years would backfire. Neither would I offer the non-tax MLE. The "soft cap" is important for us, because without it we probably would have to lose both Caruso and THT and maybe KCP as well to cut costs. The tax-payer MLE is the most I'd offer, but yeah, probably he is not taking it...

In case of Turner: similarly. Schröder, Kuzma, Harrell and whoever we draft in the summer are the expendable guys. If we cannot work out a trade for him w/ this, then that's a pass. There will 3pt shooting Cs w/ average defense available for vet min. I'd go w/ them.

[Ball so hard]

AD+Drum was
105.1 Ortg
108.5 Drtg
Net -3.4
Team eFG 51.4%

Lebron+Drum
107.4 Ortg
105.6 Drtg
Net +1.8
Team eFG 49.7%

AD+Gasol was
114.1 Ortg
103.0 Drtg
Net +11.1
Team eFG 57%

Lebron+Gasol
113.8 Ortg
102.9 Drtg
Net +11
Team eFG 57%

It's not close tbh.

5 guys launching 3s IS exactly how it works now. Take it or leave it.

Myles Turner is a AD level defender, except the closeouts on the perimeter, while probably being a better pure rim protector. He would free the shackles off our offense. With Gasol as the reserve/bench guy, he could be a bigger piece for this team than at least 50% of the all stars in terms of pure value added.

What's your source for those ratings? At first glance those number strike me as a bit odd.

NBA.com

https://www.nba.com/stats/lineups/advanced/?Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&TeamID=1610612747&GroupQuantity=2

Thanks.

Ortg and Drtg ratings aren't good stats to look at when evaluating an individual player's performance. These stats have a lot of noise. They are primarily based on team performance, then estimating a player's contribution to said performance. To make matters worse you're looking at 2 players lineup. These stats become even more meaningless. The stats you mentioned are great; I just don't think they represent what you think they mean. A coach would have to be pretty stupid to not play those two players together a ton. The leading Ortg and Drtg 2 players lineup on our team doesn't even make any sense.

[lazybatman]

Thanks.

Ortg and Drtg ratings aren't good stats to look at when evaluating an individual player's performance. These stats have a lot of noise. They are primarily based on team performance, then estimating a player's contribution to said performance. To make matters worse you're looking at 2 players lineup. These stats become even more meaningless. The stats you mentioned are great; I just don't think they represent what you think they mean. A coach would have to be pretty stupid to not play those two players together a ton. The leading Ortg and Drtg 2 players lineup on our team doesn't even make any sense.

All stats need context while evaluating, not just advanced stats, but it's all good data. The traditional Pts, rebs and assists can also be misleading. eg. Drummond picking up 3-4 rebounds out of his own shot miss putbacks in a single possession; Rondo used to give up open baskets for chasing assists in Boston; Kobe / MJ's last 3/2 years of basketball shooting 20+ shots @ terrible efficiency just to run up the All Time scoring lists.

Drum, Rondo & MJ/Kobe are some of the all time best to do it in those categories, so take that as you want. Data is fact, unless you can explain the context why you disagree. Long story short, I'm kinda sick of people discrediting numbers when it doesn't suit their argument.

[Ball so hard]

Thanks.

Ortg and Drtg ratings aren't good stats to look at when evaluating an individual player's performance. These stats have a lot of noise. They are primarily based on team performance, then estimating a player's contribution to said performance. To make matters worse you're looking at 2 players lineup. These stats become even more meaningless. The stats you mentioned are great; I just don't think they represent what you think they mean. A coach would have to be pretty stupid to not play those two players together a ton. The leading Ortg and Drtg 2 players lineup on our team doesn't even make any sense.

All stats need context while evaluating, not just advanced stats, but it's all good data. The traditional Pts, rebs and assists can also be misleading. eg. Drummond picking up 3-4 rebounds out of his own shot miss putbacks in a single possession; Rondo used to give up open baskets for chasing assists in Boston; Kobe / MJ's last 3/2 years of basketball shooting 20+ shots @ terrible efficiency just to run up the All Time scoring lists.

Drum, Rondo & MJ/Kobe are some of the all time best to do it in those categories, so take that as you want. Data is fact, unless you can explain the context why you disagree. Long story short, I'm kinda sick of people discrediting numbers when it doesn't suit their argument.

The issue isn't the underlying data. Of course data is fact, however, that isn't what we're talking about here. I could take the same raw data and manipulate it, then throw it into a model that then spits out 'stats' that have a completely different outcome than the ones you produced. Obviously not all stats are equal; some are pure junk. Estimating a player's contribution to team performance is tricky... this is one of the issues with Ortg and Drtg ratings. It appears you didn’t even evaluate the stats you produced, otherwise you would’ve found the net ratings for some of the other 2 player lineups to be head-scratching. There were something like over 140+ different 2 player lineups that had a higher net rating than the AD-Gasol pairing. Based on highest net ratings, none of the first 140+ 2 player lineups included AD. No one in the entire Laker organization thought AD+Gasol were great together. Let’s say I accept 2 player net ratings as reliable—considering no single stat tells the entire story—what else suggests AD-Gasol were great together?

[loveshaq786]

Can we get lonzo and 2 second round picks fir kuz and our first round pick?

[loveshaq786]

Can we get lonzo and 2 second round picks fir kuz and our first round pick?

[lazybatman]

No one in the entire Laker organization thought AD+Gasol were great together.

That's your unsubstantiated opinion, unless you bring facts.

AD paired really well with Gasol, and Lebron clearly thrives with him around. Drum was subbed @3 mins in Game 5, after AD went down, and got a DNP next game - that's what Lebron thinks of Drummond.

[lazybatman]

Can we get lonzo and 2 second round picks fir kuz and our first round pick?

lol.. no.

Lonzo would definitely cost us THT + a couple of 1st rd picks, if we try to send over Dennis for the salary.

[Ball so hard]

No one in the entire Laker organization thought AD+Gasol were great together.

That's your unsubstantiated opinion, unless you bring facts.

AD paired really well with Gasol, and Lebron clearly thrives with him around. Drum was subbed @3 mins in Game 5, after AD went down, and got a DNP next game - that's what Lebron thinks of Drummond.

C'mon, there were numerous reporting on this. Of course no organization is going to come out and say we are unhappy with Player A's contribution. Reporting aside, look at how Gasol was treated... he essentially became a 3rd-string center for much of the second half of the season.

"Additionally, the reason that Sam Amick of The Athletic says the Lakers are still searching for one more more center appears to be an eyebrow-raising confirmation that the team is less than satisfied with Marc Gasol so far (emphasis mine):"

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2021/3/11/22325801/lakers-rumors-lamarcus-aldridge-andre-drummond-javale-mcgee-hassan-whiteside-demarcus-cousins

I'm not here to defend Drummond, so i'm unsure why you even brought up Drummond's name.

[Kilroy]

No one in the entire Laker organization thought AD+Gasol were great together.

That's your unsubstantiated opinion, unless you bring facts.

AD paired really well with Gasol, and Lebron clearly thrives with him around. Drum was subbed @3 mins in Game 5, after AD went down, and got a DNP next game - that's what Lebron thinks of Drummond.

C'mon, there were numerous reporting on this. Of course no organization is going to come out and say we are unhappy with Player A's contribution. Reporting aside, look at how Gasol was treated... he essentially became a 3rd-string center for much of the second half of the season.

"Additionally, the reason that Sam Amick of The Athletic says the Lakers are still searching for one more more center appears to be an eyebrow-raising confirmation that the team is less than satisfied with Marc Gasol so far (emphasis mine):"

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2021/3/11/22325801/lakers-rumors-lamarcus-aldridge-andre-drummond-javale-mcgee-hassan-whiteside-demarcus-cousins

I'm not here to defend Drummond, so i'm unsure why you even brought up Drummond's name.

That story was just the reporters interpretation of the reasons behind us looking for another center... It could easily have been that the FO didn't like what they saw from Trez/AD also... In fact, I'd argue that makes more sense, because I don't think anyone thought we were bringing Gasol here to be our Starting C... Trez on the other hand, was supposed to be our starter when we got him, and did start at the beginning of the season, he just wasn't very good...

[lazybatman]

No one in the entire Laker organization thought AD+Gasol were great together.

That's your unsubstantiated opinion, unless you bring facts.

AD paired really well with Gasol, and Lebron clearly thrives with him around. Drum was subbed @3 mins in Game 5, after AD went down, and got a DNP next game - that's what Lebron thinks of Drummond.

C'mon, there were numerous reporting on this. Of course no organization is going to come out and say we are unhappy with Player A's contribution. Reporting aside, look at how Gasol was treated... he essentially became a 3rd-string center for much of the second half of the season.

"Additionally, the reason that Sam Amick of The Athletic says the Lakers are still searching for one more more center appears to be an eyebrow-raising confirmation that the team is less than satisfied with Marc Gasol so far (emphasis mine):"

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2021/3/11/22325801/lakers-rumors-lamarcus-aldridge-andre-drummond-javale-mcgee-hassan-whiteside-demarcus-cousins

I'm not here to defend Drummond, so i'm unsure why you even brought up Drummond's name.

You're now quoting gossip columns as if they were legit sources. Every agent likes to throw in Lakers name into the trades to garner more interest in their clients league wide. Idk what to say to that.

[Ball so hard]

That's your unsubstantiated opinion, unless you bring facts.

AD paired really well with Gasol, and Lebron clearly thrives with him around. Drum was subbed @3 mins in Game 5, after AD went down, and got a DNP next game - that's what Lebron thinks of Drummond.

C'mon, there were numerous reporting on this. Of course no organization is going to come out and say we are unhappy with Player A's contribution. Reporting aside, look at how Gasol was treated... he essentially became a 3rd-string center for much of the second half of the season.

"Additionally, the reason that Sam Amick of The Athletic says the Lakers are still searching for one more more center appears to be an eyebrow-raising confirmation that the team is less than satisfied with Marc Gasol so far (emphasis mine):"

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2021/3/11/22325801/lakers-rumors-lamarcus-aldridge-andre-drummond-javale-mcgee-hassan-whiteside-demarcus-cousins

I'm not here to defend Drummond, so i'm unsure why you even brought up Drummond's name.

You're now quoting gossip columns as if they were legit sources. Every agent likes to throw in Lakers name into the trades to garner more interest in their clients league wide. Idk what to say to that.

Sam Amick, one of the most respected journalists in the NBA arena is now considered gossip. I give up!

[Ball so hard]

That's your unsubstantiated opinion, unless you bring facts.

AD paired really well with Gasol, and Lebron clearly thrives with him around. Drum was subbed @3 mins in Game 5, after AD went down, and got a DNP next game - that's what Lebron thinks of Drummond.

C'mon, there were numerous reporting on this. Of course no organization is going to come out and say we are unhappy with Player A's contribution. Reporting aside, look at how Gasol was treated... he essentially became a 3rd-string center for much of the second half of the season.

"Additionally, the reason that Sam Amick of The Athletic says the Lakers are still searching for one more more center appears to be an eyebrow-raising confirmation that the team is less than satisfied with Marc Gasol so far (emphasis mine):"

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2021/3/11/22325801/lakers-rumors-lamarcus-aldridge-andre-drummond-javale-mcgee-hassan-whiteside-demarcus-cousins

I'm not here to defend Drummond, so i'm unsure why you even brought up Drummond's name.

That story was just the reporters interpretation of the reasons behind us looking for another center... It could easily have been that the FO didn't like what they saw from Trez/AD also... In fact, I'd argue that makes more sense, because I don't think anyone thought we were bringing Gasol here to be our Starting C... Trez on the other hand, was supposed to be our starter when we got him, and did start at the beginning of the season, he just wasn't very good...

Certainly possible. I think we can all agree that the minute Drummond came here Gasol's role was significantly diminished. I'm just not sure you do that to a veteran player you thought were doing great. For some reason the coaching staff thought both Trez and Drummond offered more. My argument is none of our centers stood out next to AD. I'm totally fine with Gasol in a backup role; I think he's more than adequate here. I just didn't see 'great' when I watched AD with Gasol.

[RamonSessions7]

In fact, I'd argue that makes more sense, because I don't think anyone thought we were bringing Gasol here to be our Starting C... Trez on the other hand, was supposed to be our starter when we got him, and did start at the beginning of the season, he just wasn't very good...

? Gasol started basically the whole first half of the season. Harrell got one start at some pt when I think AD and Gasol were out.

[lazybatman]

C'mon, there were numerous reporting on this. Of course no organization is going to come out and say we are unhappy with Player A's contribution. Reporting aside, look at how Gasol was treated... he essentially became a 3rd-string center for much of the second half of the season.

"Additionally, the reason that Sam Amick of The Athletic says the Lakers are still searching for one more more center appears to be an eyebrow-raising confirmation that the team is less than satisfied with Marc Gasol so far (emphasis mine):"

https://www.silverscreenandroll.com/2021/3/11/22325801/lakers-rumors-lamarcus-aldridge-andre-drummond-javale-mcgee-hassan-whiteside-demarcus-cousins

I'm not here to defend Drummond, so i'm unsure why you even brought up Drummond's name.

You're now quoting gossip columns as if they were legit sources. Every agent likes to throw in Lakers name into the trades to garner more interest in their clients league wide. Idk what to say to that.

Sam Amick, one of the most respected journalists in the NBA arena is now considered gossip. I give up!

Bring facts. Or bet me your profile pic choosing rights for 1 month, if Lakers get linked to 50+ players by such "respected journalists" this season(we're probably already a quarter of the way there, with Dame, Zion & Luka as the star names linked to Lakers). Agents probably pay these guys $500 for publishing such reports to garner more interest in their clients.

[LakersLegacy]

7.5 mil next season and 13.125 mil the following season.

We can offer 20.625 mil for 2 seasons. And we should AFTER we lock up THT. THT has a more unique game than Alonzo Ball and he is going to be great so we must keep THT

[BEazy]

We all know Drummond isn't going to get anywhere near the max. I think he'll likely command the MLE. I can see a team like the Knicks going after Drum. Would be dope if he stayed in LA for cheap though.

[Kilroy]

So looks like neither Drummond or the Lakers are interested in having him back... So we can probably put that one to bed.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/andre-drummond-says-lakers-criticism-was-just-promotion-for-his-nft-collection/ar-AALWinm

Drummond also spoke of his time with the Lakers as if it was in the past, so it looks like the two parties are headed in different directions.

[Ball so hard]

So looks like neither Drummond or the Lakers are interested in having him back... So we can probably put that one to bed.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/andre-drummond-says-lakers-criticism-was-just-promotion-for-his-nft-collection/ar-AALWinm

Drummond also spoke of his time with the Lakers as if it was in the past, so it looks like the two parties are headed in different directions.