my feeling on this season for the lakers

[lalalaker]

season is over unfortunately we now have to look ahead. but before we do that lets talk about this season and what i thought went wrong.

1.horrible feeling when i first heard dennis was signed as a starter. all season long this dude has failed us alot and i was upset at the management for granting this dudes wish to be treated as a starter when clearly his number was way better if he had been the leader for the 2nd unit as a lead bench player. Frank Vogel has a tendancy to allow players to dictate whether he should start or not instead of being a boss and telling his player no i decide whether you start or not. obviously when we first got harrell and dennis i believed it to be the good 1 2 punch when lbj or ad gets the rest. instead when he starts its like offense is confused as to who runs the offense think like the clippers with pg13 and leonard.

2.Vogel just was undecisive with rotation which to me was painful to watch. granted it was not his fault for having players constantly injured but even as we have players healthy he would have many players play one game and DNP CD. that was no way for players to trust this coach. We should have developed and used more THT since he is a player with great potential and vogel didnt clearly utilize him enough.

3.NBA did no favor for teams that was in the bubble till the end. less then 2 month after the finals is not the time to start the season and this season clearly proved that shortened schedule caused alot of injuries. Especially lakers having injury prone players couldnt afford to take time to heal since the games are so condensed. didnt help they still manage to have an all star weekend when we heard there was non so that players can rest more.

4. no system was in place for the offense when lakers didnt have lbj or ad for a limited time. other teams can afford to pick up a win with just system alone but lakers for the past few seasons have not used effecient pick and roll and i do mean the real one where they are forced to switched. How clearly lakers suffer from being a bad defender on a pick and roll yet they never seem to use it on their own.

Anyways this season had alot of problems and i for one do not trust vogel with his coaching. we won a ring but now i believe it to be more based on talent and less on coaching.

[Eric Bieniemy]

Harrell, Drummond, and Schroder were all bad fits. That, and injuries, are why this season was unsuccessful.

Full Disclosure: I thought the Harrell signing was unnecessary (I thought Morris was a much better fit). Pelinka got too cute in prioritizing Harrell, but I thought the Schroder trade was an absolute home run. Chris Paul really had him looking great last year with OKC, much like how Paul has somehow elevated the play of Cameron Payne. It didn't take long to realize that Schroder lacked winning intangibles. If they don't find a sign and trade (which I think they won't), they should simply let him walk.

[The Hypnotoad]

I also didn't initially like trading Danny Green and letting Rondo and Dwight walk. Both Rondo and Dwight were awesome off bench and could have been had for cheap. If Danny Green hits that shot in game 5 of NBA finals, do they trade him? His 3 point shooting and defense were sorely missed.

[Kilroy]

Green had his moments in the playoffs, but he was largely a non-factor in the WCF and Finals... I can see why they dumped him... Dwight overreacted to us unexpectedly getting Harrell, and accepted the offer from the Sixers... I think he'd have been here this year if he hadn't...
Schroder was basically a no-brainer... It didn't work out, but I think most teams in the league would have made that deal without question... Same with the Harrell, and Drummond deals...

I feel bad for Harrell... He put in work all season with a smile on his face, no matter the role... But he's just terrible on D and a bad fit next to AD... So he has to go.
Marc Gasol was a huge upgrade over McGee... I know the haters don't want to hear that, but McGee was unplayable in the bubble, and Marc elevated his game in the play-in games and playoffs, and did everything he could to get us wins...

I'm really curious what this team would look like with a full training camp to get into a groove... I'm really curious what Drummond would look like with some solid coaching and mentoring. But I'm not sure it makes sense to commit long term to him...

If Schroder wants to come back on a reasonable contract and doesn't mind coming off the bench, we could do worse for a 6th man...

Kuz is a net-nagative at this point and needs to go... Obviously can't keep both Mathews and McLemore... I liked Mathews better... Like I said in the other thread, I'm glad to see we have McKinnie tied up for a couple more... He brings a lot to the table and I think deserves a better look... I wouldn't mind giving him some of Kuz's minutes on a similar role.

[kblo247]

The Danny Green thing .. he had to go.

He said on the podcast that laker fans were not great for his mental health and him and his family got death threats.

[Eric Bieniemy]

Green had his moments in the playoffs, but he was largely a non-factor in the WCF and Finals... I can see why they dumped him... Dwight overreacted to us unexpectedly getting Harrell, and accepted the offer from the Sixers... I think he'd have been here this year if he hadn't...
Schroder was basically a no-brainer... It didn't work out, but I think most teams in the league would have made that deal without question... Same with the Harrell, and Drummond deals...

I feel bad for Harrell... He put in work all season with a smile on his face, no matter the role... But he's just terrible on D and a bad fit next to AD... So he has to go.
Marc Gasol was a huge upgrade over McGee... I know the haters don't want to hear that, but McGee was unplayable in the bubble, and Marc elevated his game in the play-in games and playoffs, and did everything he could to get us wins...

I'm really curious what this team would look like with a full training camp to get into a groove... I'm really curious what Drummond would look like with some solid coaching and mentoring. But I'm not sure it makes sense to commit long term to him...

If Schroder wants to come back on a reasonable contract and doesn't mind coming off the bench, we could do worse for a 6th man...

Kuz is a net-nagative at this point and needs to go... Obviously can't keep both Mathews and McLemore... I liked Mathews better... Like I said in the other thread, I'm glad to see we have McKinnie tied up for a couple more... He brings a lot to the table and I think deserves a better look... I wouldn't mind giving him some of Kuz's minutes on a similar role.

With Tucker there, I don't think there's any room for Schroder coming off the bench.

That unit won't be effective with two iffy shooters at the guard positions. Schroder (or his penetrating/floor general archetype) and Tucker should be platooned, but they shouldn't really share the floor until one of them becomes a respectable long-ball shooter.

Because I like Tucker in the role of guard penetrator/scorer off the bench, a guy like Schroder should start, not come off the bench.

As I've stated elsewhere, the Lakers should be trying to replace Schroder with Derrick Rose. Rose has more of the winning intangibles that Schroder seems to lack, and he has Chicago connections with Davis and Tucker. He wants to win badly and will be an ideal groomsman for Tucker, who grew up idolizing him.

[Kilroy]

Green had his moments in the playoffs, but he was largely a non-factor in the WCF and Finals... I can see why they dumped him... Dwight overreacted to us unexpectedly getting Harrell, and accepted the offer from the Sixers... I think he'd have been here this year if he hadn't...
Schroder was basically a no-brainer... It didn't work out, but I think most teams in the league would have made that deal without question... Same with the Harrell, and Drummond deals...

I feel bad for Harrell... He put in work all season with a smile on his face, no matter the role... But he's just terrible on D and a bad fit next to AD... So he has to go.
Marc Gasol was a huge upgrade over McGee... I know the haters don't want to hear that, but McGee was unplayable in the bubble, and Marc elevated his game in the play-in games and playoffs, and did everything he could to get us wins...

I'm really curious what this team would look like with a full training camp to get into a groove... I'm really curious what Drummond would look like with some solid coaching and mentoring. But I'm not sure it makes sense to commit long term to him...

If Schroder wants to come back on a reasonable contract and doesn't mind coming off the bench, we could do worse for a 6th man...

Kuz is a net-nagative at this point and needs to go... Obviously can't keep both Mathews and McLemore... I liked Mathews better... Like I said in the other thread, I'm glad to see we have McKinnie tied up for a couple more... He brings a lot to the table and I think deserves a better look... I wouldn't mind giving him some of Kuz's minutes on a similar role.

With Tucker there, I don't think there's any room for Schroder coming off the bench.

That unit won't be effective with two iffy shooters at the guard positions. Schroder (or his penetrating/floor general archetype) and Tucker should be platooned, but they shouldn't really share the floor until one of them becomes a respectable long-ball shooter.

Because I like Tucker in the role of guard penetrator/scorer off the bench, a guy like Schroder should start, not come off the bench.

As I've stated elsewhere, the Lakers should be trying to replace Schroder with Derrick Rose. Rose has more of the winning intangibles that Schroder seems to lack, and he has Chicago connections with Davis and Tucker. He wants to win badly and will be an ideal groomsman for Tucker, who grew up idolizing him.

THT either starts next year or he's not coming back... No reason to commit to him long term and stifle him on the bench.

And if THT goes, it's because they have a legit 3rd star coming in... In either case, I think the best Schroder can hope for is 6th man...

Not to mention, he's terrible playing next to LeBron, and AD...

[Spanish_Laker]

My conclusion is that we need a third star who can carry the team offensively. Davis is not reliable due to his health and LeBron is 37 next season.

[Danny Darko]

letting THT go would be fooooolish. We need to be grooming him to pair with AD long term.
I think Bron might be very good longer than we suspect... ankle and all (waiting on his son to be the Griffys of NBA), but we need a soft landing for another star when his monster contract becomes cap space & THT is part of that magnet.

THT plays both ends and rebounds with a lot of headroom to grow. I'm all in.

That hard cap is going to be a real MFer though... I don't like the offseason options Pincus is painting cap wise.

Morris wants back, we'll need light vet contracts and I think his game ages well, so yeah.

Kuz- I'm unclear what we can get for him right now. He had a run of great D and anything the team needed but that kind of playoff run as one of the young guys with the energy to step it up is very damning to me and I'm a pro Kuz guy.

Shroder's cat- saw his shadow and showed up every 3 games. His only redeeming quality to me is the way the cap is trying to slap the hell out of us, but he's no starter and he's not worth the asking price beyond that if he leaves our replacement roster spot is a min contract currently.

Trez- wish him the best, bad fit, see the above. I think Morris might be a better call for more minutes. I also wish Aldridge would consider un-retiring for vet min fit-wise.

[Danny Darko]

My conclusion is that we need a third star who can carry the team offensively. Davis is not reliable due to his health and LeBron is 37 next season.

with our cap- renouncing everyone but AD and Bron would still not allow for a third star. I believe Pincus said we'd have 21 mill to spend total in that scenario.

[Spanish_Laker]

My conclusion is that we need a third star who can carry the team offensively. Davis is not reliable due to his health and LeBron is 37 next season.

with our cap- renouncing everyone but AD and Bron would still not allow for a third star. I believe Pincus said we'd have 21 mill to spend total in that scenario.

Then maybe it wasn't the best idea to give LeBron that massive extension.

[Freighttrain]

My conclusion is that we need a third star who can carry the team offensively. Davis is not reliable due to his health and LeBron is 37 next season.

with our cap- renouncing everyone but AD and Bron would still not allow for a third star. I believe Pincus said we'd have 21 mill to spend total in that scenario.

If we sign & trade Schröder, trade Kuz, THT & picks we could get a star player, involving a third team. Or is that no valuable option?

[Eric Bieniemy]

Green had his moments in the playoffs, but he was largely a non-factor in the WCF and Finals... I can see why they dumped him... Dwight overreacted to us unexpectedly getting Harrell, and accepted the offer from the Sixers... I think he'd have been here this year if he hadn't...
Schroder was basically a no-brainer... It didn't work out, but I think most teams in the league would have made that deal without question... Same with the Harrell, and Drummond deals...

I feel bad for Harrell... He put in work all season with a smile on his face, no matter the role... But he's just terrible on D and a bad fit next to AD... So he has to go.
Marc Gasol was a huge upgrade over McGee... I know the haters don't want to hear that, but McGee was unplayable in the bubble, and Marc elevated his game in the play-in games and playoffs, and did everything he could to get us wins...

I'm really curious what this team would look like with a full training camp to get into a groove... I'm really curious what Drummond would look like with some solid coaching and mentoring. But I'm not sure it makes sense to commit long term to him...

If Schroder wants to come back on a reasonable contract and doesn't mind coming off the bench, we could do worse for a 6th man...

Kuz is a net-nagative at this point and needs to go... Obviously can't keep both Mathews and McLemore... I liked Mathews better... Like I said in the other thread, I'm glad to see we have McKinnie tied up for a couple more... He brings a lot to the table and I think deserves a better look... I wouldn't mind giving him some of Kuz's minutes on a similar role.

With Tucker there, I don't think there's any room for Schroder coming off the bench.

That unit won't be effective with two iffy shooters at the guard positions. Schroder (or his penetrating/floor general archetype) and Tucker should be platooned, but they shouldn't really share the floor until one of them becomes a respectable long-ball shooter.

Because I like Tucker in the role of guard penetrator/scorer off the bench, a guy like Schroder should start, not come off the bench.

As I've stated elsewhere, the Lakers should be trying to replace Schroder with Derrick Rose. Rose has more of the winning intangibles that Schroder seems to lack, and he has Chicago connections with Davis and Tucker. He wants to win badly and will be an ideal groomsman for Tucker, who grew up idolizing him.

THT either starts next year or he's not coming back... No reason to commit to him long term and stifle him on the bench.

And if THT goes, it's because they have a legit 3rd star coming in... In either case, I think the best Schroder can hope for is 6th man...

Not to mention, he's terrible playing next to LeBron, and AD...

If the Lakers are trying to win a ring next year, Tucker shouldn't be relied upon to do more than consistently drop double figures off the bench.

He's not ready to be a main cog (top 3-4 player) on a team with championship dreams.

[Eric Bieniemy]

Tucker is too young and inexperienced to be aprimary contributor on a championship team.

He needs to be brought along slowly as a secondary contributor, a top 5-6 scorer on the team as opposed to a top 3-4 scorer on the team.

[tamaraw08]

Vogel has been great in defense but him and his assistants lacked creativity to draw innovative sets with multiple options that could have generated points esp when Lebron was sitting.
Portland was among the leaders in offensive efficiency and yes most if it is because if Dame and CJ, but how Terry designed those horns action and precised cuts and screens in the perimeter helped free up his stars for those scoring opportunities. Pelinka cannot be happy with the Lakers anemic schemes. He would be crazy not to call Stotts if he’s interested assisting Vogel and fix that stagnant offense.

[Hans1984]

We have to realize that Lebron can't carry us anymore. He's turning 37 in December. Davis is fragile and that will only get worse as he is getting older. We basically need a new superstar. Maybe we can get Lillard somewhere down the line. That would be great.

[Kilroy]

THT was the only guy on the team this season other than Trez, AD and LeBron, who we could throw into a game on limited minutes and he'd get us buckets... Every time. He wasn't scoring 20 a night, but there were very few defenses that could stop him, and when he wasn't scoring, he was finding open guys for gimme's... He was much more efficient at it that Schroder, KCP or Caruso...

He's not in the same league as KCP or Caruso for sure on Defense right now, and probably not Schroder when he's locked-in... Which is actually kind of rare, really.

Yes, he's young... Yes, he's inexperienced... No, he's not a knock down threat from 3 (but he's shown the ability to hit those shots, just not in volume)... But he's also poised, not afraid of the moment, and more consistent than most of the rest of the team...

If he had the whole season as the guaranteed starter like Schroder had, I bet by the playoffs, he'd be one of the top performers in the league at that position.
Everyone jumped down THT's throat when he made a mistake... But Caruso, KCP and Schroder all made a hell of a lot more...

Caruso needs to come back... His D is invaluable, but he needs to work on his body so he can get and stay healthy...
KCP isn't great but he's a machine and he's not overly prone to mistakes... So keeping him is probably the right move unless someone wants him in trade bad enough...
Schroder is a 15M/yr player at tops... If the market is more than that for him, let him walk... He's just not worth more than that in this system.

THT was a net positive last season and has nothing but upside... And this is pretty much the ideal situation for him to grow and for us to develop a young player... It's a position we can afford inconsistency from throughout the season...

And we don't have the resources to be talking about acquiring all star caliber talent anyway...

I would roll the dice on THT, Caruso and Drummond... We can afford to bring Drummond along too for the right price... If he still sucks by the trade deadline, someone is always looking for a decent big if he's not too expensive...

[tamaraw08]

I will be happy if somehow the Lakers can do some kind of a sign and trade Schroder for Lowry along with fillers of course. I will be ok if they get Rose and Alec Burks even though Lowry and Rose would virtually be just rentals bec of their age.
I however do not like the narrative that Schroder is such a horrible fit for this team esp next to Lebron. If the reasons are that, he sounded selfish and greedy and that that he's a horrible shooter, then those are legit but it's not like he was a net negative for this team.
Yes, he played a very bad games 4 and 5 but still, overall, the guy played tough defense and still managed to score 14 pts on 11 shots, with an ok 52.8TS% highest among Lakers perimeter players better than Caruso,KCP, Matthews, THT.
A 3-man combo with AD and Lebron still netted a +11.7 for 496 mins HIGHEST FOR Lebron in any 3 man combo last season. Replace AD with Gasol and the trio had 10.3 for 477 mins.
2-man combo with Lebron yielded +9 for 815 mins. His detractors probably would counter and think that of course, if you pair with Lebron, you would surely look great regardless. Well, BOTH Rondo and Bradley also had a SIMILAR +9.0 last year, while Green and KCP were under +7.6 last season, actually just +6.3 this season with KCP.
Schroder when on the court the team shot 54.7EFG% with 113 ORTG as compared to 52 AND 108 ORTG.
Some fans here a clamoring for more mins and role for THT, well, the needs a defensive guru to tutor him how to properly defend singlehandedly, when to help and not help etc bec if he doesn't improve, Vogel would just use him sparingly like he did the past 2 years now.

[lazybatman]

Eh.. I don't know if Rob could have done any better than he did last window on face value, especially from the cap/picks/tradable salary position we were in. We had the perfect off season, and got the marquee FA available in the buyout. Hindsight's obviously 20:20. But his job isn't easy.

I honestly thought Lebron would heal and round off into his peak around the WCF, when we would've been favourites, and had us as favourites to win anyhow. How many of you didn't?

Let's not forget how many things went wrong this playoffs -
- Shooting
- AD's injury
- Lebron still kinda hobbled @ about 60-70%

Just one of these is enough to break the camel's back. Tough break!

I trust Rob to make things right again. He's proven to be an astute man so far. No reason to doubt him.

[xinxin]

Lakers got shafted by the short offseason, compact schedule etc..

We all knew Lebrun was aging, AD was injury prone, but the league didn’t do us any favors with the 72 game schedule.

Result? injuries to the Lakers stars ( and for the other teams as well) & and a first round exit.


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