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So, it's pretty clear LeBron is gunning for Kareem's all time Scoring Leader crown...

I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that?

My thoughts are, I think it's natural for him to want to get there, but honestly, it'll be kind of a shame if/when he does... That's the one record that defines the difference in eras more than any other, and what Malone, Kareem and even MJ did in achieving their place on it, is special and shouldn't be a victim of the modern era...

Kareem attempted 18 3pt shots for his entire career.. Malone attempted 301. MJ attempted 1778.

LeBron on the other hand is 8th on the all time attempts leader-board with 5844... (Curry and Harden are 2 and 3 with just under 7000 3s attempted)...

So in a way, if Lebron passes Kareem (he seems sure to pass Malone, which is a shame in itself), it will likely, forever change the narrative about scoring in the NBA. And IMO cheapen the greatness of those who went before him...

Time for a weighted scale... Most points by someone with fewer than 2000 3pt attempts, and most for someone with over 2000...
MJ, I think deserves to be on the same mountain with Malone and Kareem, but I'm not so sure guys who came after like Kobe, LeBron, Curry do...

Comparing players from different eras is extremely flawed. I do understand why people make this lazy comparison. The amount of variables one needs to account/adjust for renders most comparisons meaningless. For example, there is no doubt in my mind that it's much easier to score in today's game than it was in the 80s, 90s, etc. Officiating has changed. Talent pool has changed. Nutrition has changed. I can go on and on. These are all extremely significant changes. I prefer to say Lebron is the GOAT of his era. MJ is the GOAT of his era.

I think the narrative has already changed. IMO the opposite will happen—the argument in favor of the greatness of those before Lebron will be strengthened. Like you've already pointed out, the volume of 3pt attempts in this era cannot be ignored. Pace is up... more opportunities for additional shots, rebounds, blocks, etc.

I think it's maybe a little naive to say that the argument for the greatness of the previous era will be strengthened... It really hasn't seemed to work that way.
LeBron beating Kareem, would justify Curry being in the same convo once he gets higher on the list, and so on... People have short memories... Some don't even have Wilt in top 10 lists anymore... Imagine trying to justify that to MJ, Kobe, Shaq, etc...

Narratives change, history fades, people forget... Or rather, people look for excuses to forget and minimize the past...

I don't hate LeBron, or Curry, but I do have a hard time equating what they have done, to what MJ or Kareem did... Maybe there should be 2 "mountains"... Call the one LeBron is sitting on top of "Everest," and call the one Kareem and MJ are arguing over "Valhalla"...

Kilroy wrote:So, it's pretty clear LeBron is gunning for Kareem's all time Scoring Leader crown...

I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that?

My thoughts are, I think it's natural for him to want to get there, but honestly, it'll be kind of a shame if/when he does... That's the one record that defines the difference in eras more than any other, and what Malone, Kareem and even MJ did in achieving their place on it, is special and shouldn't be a victim of the modern era...

Kareem attempted 18 3pt shots for his entire career.. Malone attempted 301. MJ attempted 1778.

LeBron on the other hand is 8th on the all time attempts leader-board with 5844... (Curry and Harden are 2 and 3 with just under 7000 3s attempted)...

So in a way, if Lebron passes Kareem (he seems sure to pass Malone, which is a shame in itself), it will likely, forever change the narrative about scoring in the NBA. And IMO cheapen the greatness of those who went before him...

Time for a weighted scale... Most points by someone with fewer than 2000 3pt attempts, and most for someone with over 2000...
MJ, I think deserves to be on the same mountain with Malone and Kareem, but I'm not so sure guys who came after like Kobe, LeBron, Curry do...

Pardon my tunner vision, but I actually have a different concern about Lebron's quantity of 3pt attempts. I really think his focus not just getting the all time scoring but ALSO having a chance to add to his consecutive 25/game average is contributing to their recent woes.
Pelinka went shopping for 3pt shooters and these shooters are actually doing their job hitting their shots with Melo and Ellingon shooting above 40% while Monk has increased to almost 38% but because James is on that all time scoring hunt and consecutive 25/game ave record, he has anointed himself as THE ULTIMATE DESIGNATED SHOOTER taking 8/game while Monk and Wayne only take 5 each.
Per 100 possesions Lebron 3 yrs ago only took under 8 3's but this year at 10.3, it would have been ok if he's on fire but he is just shooting 33%. while his assist per game has dropped from 14 to just under 9 per 100 possessions.

Kareem is the greatest scorer I've ever seen. I say this because of how and when he scored. He's the best clutch scorer I've ever seen as well. His 85-86 season, at 38 years old, was one of his best seasons.

Now if we're talking about grotesque scoring at will.... then Kobe, MJ and even a pre-injury Maravich need to be in that discussion.

His scoring record shows his ability to adjust his game with age and changes in the league as well.

LeBron may get there but he's not the same kind of scorer Kareem was in many ways. Had Kareem not played with "Showtime" he may have had 40K career points. He averaged 20 a game over that era on 14 shots a game.

I think Kareem couldn't care much about his scoring record either.... I think he's far more proud of his championships and playoff successes. LeBron is really a product of the "me" generations in may ways. He seems obsessed with it. Then again, stats have never been reflective of success in the game but these days you'd think that they are the game.

As for the comment on pace being higher today than his era that's just not the case. Teams averaged higher point totals with less than 4 3 points attempts per game. The KC, UT, SA and Denver teams of the early and mid 80's were perfect examples of this. Denver averaged 123/game with 3.1 attempts from 3 while shooting 50% overall.

Kareems 85 team averaged more attempts per game than most of league does now. In 85 the average "pace" was 102 compared to 2018 (last real full season) 100. Denver regularly ran in the 105-106 range in those days while having an 82 game average of 120 points per.

In 83 the league had a pace of 101.5 and an average points per game of 110.1...with an average of 2.4 3 point attempts a game.

I may agree it's easier to score in today's game however the shooting % don't show it. The amount of 35% shots taken vs much higher % opportunities is the key to understanding this. That Denver team of the early 80's averaged over 120 for a few years, they shot 50% as a team and had pace higher than today's game by a decent margin. They also led the league a few of those years in 3pt attempts.... which never was higher than 5 a game.

The "talent" of each era is interesting. Fewer teams back then concentrated the talent more than today. The one and done kids have athleticism that is superior to the days of old but lack fundamental understanding of the game and fundamentals in general in comparison. Different era's for sure. A Kareem in today's game would be used, shooting 58% from the post, to set up players shooting 35% from 3. Back then it was the other way around. When you look at the points scored back then, the higher pace on average and spread on a given team in scoring it is a good demonstration of how the game has moved from team to individual.

When adjusted to pace of the league at the time of their careers. Kareem (26+) had 29.9 points per 100 possession and LeBron has 36.6 points per 100 possessions.

For reference, Kobe was at 35.8 points per 100 possessions and Curry is at 34.6 points per 100. Jordan was at 40.4 points per 100 and Malone was at 34.4 points per 100.

This is a ridiculous reason to discredit LeBron. Average Pace and ppg were much lower during LeBron’s prime then in Kareem’s prime.

LeBron’s ppg was highest in 2006. League average Pace was 90.5 and ppg was 97.0.

Kareem’s highest ppg was in 1972. League average pace was 112.0 and ppg was 110.2.

Heck, this season the league average ppg is 107.6 and pace is 98.2.

Of the two, LeBron absolutely was not the one in the era of inflated stats.

zimpy27 wrote:When adjusted to pace of the league at the time of their careers. Kareem (26+) had 29.9 points per 100 possession and LeBron has 36.6 points per 100 possessions.

For reference, Kobe was at 35.8 points per 100 possessions and Curry is at 34.6 points per 100. Jordan was at 40.4 points per 100 and Malone was at 34.4 points per 100.

This metric is really shows the value of their teammates more than anything else. Kareem was on teams that had 5-6 players averaging over 10 points a game and got around 14 shots a game for nearly a decade. Malone, Jordan, Kobe and LeBron were the dominant scorer for their teams for most of their careers. It shows the difference is FG % as well.

For those that remember Showtime.... Kareem opened the game with 10-12 points each night.... then closed the game with 10-12. In the middle it was showtime and be barely crossed half court as Magic was running the show. Kobe, Jordan and LeBron have never been in a position or could be in a position to defer to that degree and still manage to be MVP caliber. That was another aspect to Kareem's game that is vastly under-appreciated.

Here’s a good article on the topic.
https://www.sportingnews.com/au/nba/news/how-soon-could-lebron-james-pass-kareem-abdul-jabbar-for-top-spot-on-the-all-time-scorers-list/1iavizoewk67213hs00ei05f6n

I’d personally prefer it if KAJ got to sit atop that list forever.

gunning for scoring title - does not take shots hes playing too passive

kings life

Lebron will probably hit 40k... He's scoring so easily still at 37. His strength really makes up for his loss in quickness in the half court.

Hope he gets it next season.

LeBron James is now second in the NBA in scoring per game, at 28.6, in between Kevin Durant and Stephen Curry.

Kilroy wrote:So, it's pretty clear LeBron is gunning for Kareem's all time Scoring Leader crown...

I'm just wondering what your thoughts are on that?

My thoughts are, I think it's natural for him to want to get there, but honestly, it'll be kind of a shame if/when he does... That's the one record that defines the difference in eras more than any other, and what Malone, Kareem and even MJ did in achieving their place on it, is special and shouldn't be a victim of the modern era...

Kareem attempted 18 3pt shots for his entire career.. Malone attempted 301. MJ attempted 1778.

LeBron on the other hand is 8th on the all time attempts leader-board with 5844... (Curry and Harden are 2 and 3 with just under 7000 3s attempted)...

So in a way, if Lebron passes Kareem (he seems sure to pass Malone, which is a shame in itself), it will likely, forever change the narrative about scoring in the NBA. And IMO cheapen the greatness of those who went before him...

Time for a weighted scale... Most points by someone with fewer than 2000 3pt attempts, and most for someone with over 2000...
MJ, I think deserves to be on the same mountain with Malone and Kareem, but I'm not so sure guys who came after like Kobe, LeBron, Curry do...

you guys are kinda weird, not gonna lie

Points is just a longevity thing to me. Props to Bron for having the longevity of being this good.

Lebron is on an unreal run right now. You have to tip your hat to him.