Lakers Winning Time HBO, What's your opinion about inaccuracies?

[tamaraw08]

I actually have not seen the show yet, but there's a lot of talk about how inaccurate the show is. The producers/writers are claiming "Dramatic Licence"= showing completely made up stories that never happened to simply entertain and create drama.
https://www.insider.com/how-true-hbo-winning-time-jerry-west-kareem-what-happened-2022-4

The real people at the heart of HBO's 'Winning Time' are slamming the series as inaccurate, from Magic Johnson to LA Lakers coach Jerry West

ESPN radio host and Lakers radio play by play John Ireland love it's entertainment value but didn't like their inaccuracies as well.

Winning Time instantly loses credibility
The first episode of the new HBO drama on the Showtime Lakers, especially with its viciously inaccurate portrayal of Jerry West, missed the mark

https://marcstein.substack.com/p/winning-time-instantly-loses-credibility?s=r
I watched the movie Moneyball by Brad Pitt and initially loved it, until a friend of mine told me about it's inaccuracies. I felt deceived. Some will say, well, it didn't claim to be a documentary= accurate so it's fine, but I disagree.
As a Lakers fan, most of the things that happened are "dramatic" enough, then again they are selling this show not just to us real lakers fans but to the casual watchers... what do you think?

[mastermixer]

Hard to say because everyone has their own agenda. Magic has own feel good Doc coming out on Apple TV + that has the blessing of Jeanie and West, so of course they all will protect each other.

My personal opinion is that if they are totally misrepresenting West’s (and others) behavior, that’s wrong.

The producers usually get away with it because they are basing it on a source material, in this case a book. But West’s camp claims no where in the book is West portrayed like a alcoholic with a rage problem. So how is that fair? If you’re using people’s real names and events, I don’t think you should just be able to make up whatever you want and then just say “hey it’s fiction.”

Also Kareem yelled at me when I was a kid when I asked him for an autograph EXACTLY like they showed in the series premier, except he didn’t use the F word.

Idk. I know a good chunk of Lakers history, so I’m not taking it too seriously, but it pissed me off that they misrepresented cold hard facts. Like they said Lakers lost games when they actually won them.


Overall it’s entertaining, but no credibility imo

[danfantastk32]

When snowflakes start calling for Chick to have his statue removed, because of his racist views/comments....then I will really have an issue with the show. I've only watched a couple episodes, and I think it really sucks the way he's portrayed.

Otherwise, I think it's great entertainment. Show is pretty funny. Dig the job the've done of bringing back the 80's. I'd be mad if I were Jerry West too.....but man, is his character great. What a really good acting job by whoever does it. Makes me laugh at almost every scene. I definitely think there's a bit of "smoke" to that fire....with West's personality. Yeah....they've turned the knob up to unreal levels...but I bet that it's prob very close to what he's like.....they just gave him steroids in the show. Lot's of steroids.

I just hope that Chick doesn't wind up with a totally tarnished reputation, and no way to defend himself. Like I said...I'm only a few episodes in....so maybe they fix that.

[TylersLakers]

I love the show for what it is. Great acting, great drama and it's about Lakers basketball. Are the intricacies perfect? No. But for the most part - it's pretty close.

Did they win a game against the Celtics because of Michael Cooper's lay-in at the buzzer after a Magic pass? No - Magic actually got hurt and Norm Nixon won with free throws.

Did they lose to Indiana and Detroit? No.

Did they make Jerry West over the top? Yes.

It's all fun and games and I wish people would look at it like that.

[Eric Bieniemy]

Was Chick an alcoholic, or was he just a guy who enjoyed random sips during a game?

It's hard to imagine Chick calling his normal rapid-fire games under the severe influence of alcohol.

If it's exaggerated, it is truly a shame because, like West, the man was a genius at his craft, and the show has yet to establish them as the best to ever do it.

[tamaraw08]

I love the show for what it is. Great acting, great drama and it's about Lakers basketball. Are the intricacies perfect? No. But for the most part - it's pretty close.

Did they win a game against the Celtics because of Michael Cooper's lay-in at the buzzer after a Magic pass? No - Magic actually got hurt and Norm Nixon won with free throws.

Did they lose to Indiana and Detroit? No.

Did they make Jerry West over the top? Yes.

It's all fun and games and I wish people would look at it like that.

Haven't watched it yet, someone said HBO has a "disclaimer" informing audiences that some scenes are not factual, when do they show this disclaimer, at the start or way way late after the credits? I'm asking to find out if HBO really want to be forthcoming about it's inaccuracies. You mentioned some scenes that actually didn't happened. Why didn't choose to be more accurate, will those scenes make a huge difference for their cinematic drama?

[heezyo2o]

I don't think it's fair to tarnish a name like Jerry West. A character based on him is one thing, but they're using his actual name. I get it's a tv show and you need to create drama, but people will believe this is how he actually was in real life.

[mastermixer]

I love the show for what it is. Great acting, great drama and it's about Lakers basketball. Are the intricacies perfect? No. But for the most part - it's pretty close.

Did they win a game against the Celtics because of Michael Cooper's lay-in at the buzzer after a Magic pass? No - Magic actually got hurt and Norm Nixon won with free throws.

Did they lose to Indiana and Detroit? No.

Did they make Jerry West over the top? Yes.

It's all fun and games and I wish people would look at it like that.

Haven't watched it yet, someone said HBO has a "disclaimer" informing audiences that some scenes are not factual, when do they show this disclaimer, at the start or way way late after the credits? I'm asking to find out if HBO really want to be forthcoming about it's inaccuracies. You mentioned some scenes that actually didn't happened. Why didn't choose to be more accurate, will those scenes make a huge difference for their cinematic drama?

The disclaimer is at the front of the show, but when you're using people's real names and you have characters break the forth wall and talk to the TV audience, it's kinda hard not go "ohhhh so that's how he really was!" or " ohhhh so that's what really happened!"

It's one thing to have minor inaccuracies to help the flow of the show, but I'm pretty sure they are rewriting history with some of their narratives and characterizations.

But I guess Hollywood does that with everything that's "based on a true story". In The Blind Side they said Michael Orr never touched a football until late high school when the white family took him in, when in reality he had been playing football his whole life. That's a pretty big inaccuracy lol

[DEEP3CL]

The show is wild and not much of it is exactly true. Don't like how they're doing West or Magic, but at the same time I realize it's drama. I usually laugh at the stuff that's not true.

[xinxin]

Now that Jerry west & Kareem have spoken about it , I’m taking every thing with a grain of salt..

Having said that, I still find the series amusing and entertaining


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Liam_Gallagher]

I found it odd how Jamaal Wilkes was barely a character, yet averaged 20+ ppg and was probably the 2nd/3rd best player on the team.

[tamaraw08]

I found it odd how Jamaal Wilkes was barely a character, yet averaged 20+ ppg and was probably the 2nd/3rd best player on the team.

You're right, I looked up the Game stats when they won it all and beat the Sixers where Jamaal dropped 37 pts.
I heard about those inaccuracies in key story lines like
1. Jerry Buss mother actually dying 2 years BEFORE he bought the team.
2. Their injured coach Jack McKinney didn't really try to comeback and put pressure on Westhead to step down and fire Riley.
3. Lakers actually games on winning their road trip etc etc,
Having said all that,I was very entertained, I just wished they were more accurate, I guess the writers were worried that the real stories will bore the non team fan audiences.

[dice]

When snowflakes start calling for Chick to have his statue removed, because of his racist views/comments....then I will really have an issue with the show. I've only watched a couple episodes, and I think it really sucks the way he's portrayed.

Otherwise, I think it's great entertainment. Show is pretty funny. Dig the job the've done of bringing back the 80's. I'd be mad if I were Jerry West too.....but man, is his character great. What a really good acting job by whoever does it. Makes me laugh at almost every scene. I definitely think there's a bit of "smoke" to that fire....with West's personality. Yeah....they've turned the knob up to unreal levels...but I bet that it's prob very close to what he's like.....they just gave him steroids in the show. Lot's of steroids.

I just hope that Chick doesn't wind up with a totally tarnished reputation, and no way to defend himself. Like I said...I'm only a few episodes in....so maybe they fix that.

context: i've been a bulls fan since the late '80s and was a celtics fan from like '84 (whenever CBS ramped up their live broadcasts) through the end of larry's career. i lived in eastern indiana from age 5 to 12 and chicagoland ever since. so basically i've never watched lakers games on a regular basis and have never been a fan. so i can't comment about stuff like the accuracy of the chick hearn portrayal. that said, my impressions of the show:

-john c reilly is freaking fantastic, strikes me as a pretty accurate representation of buss, and is worth watching the show for all by himself
-sally field is/was terrific as the buss matriarch
-the jeanie buss character is excellent
-if the buss sons were/are anywhere near as ridiculous as they are being portrayed, it's easy to see why their role in the organization has been diminished

-the jerry west character strikes me as incredibly unfair, but i do agree that there are probably kernels of truth to it that have been exploded into a bowl of popcorn. and it's pretty tasty. the entertainment value far surpasses the importance of real jerry's hurt feelings

-adrien brody is quite good as reilly. i look forward to seeing how they portray his takeover of the team. and i'm sure it will involve aspects that real reilly will take offense to. maybe some sort of weaselly backstabbing

-jason segal is good as westhead, but it's almost a crime that josh brolin isn't playing that part. case in point:




the players are IMO the least important part of the show. remarkably so given the real life star power. but given that:

-the kid who plays magic is good, but doesn't have half the charisma of magic johnson. so the character is unlikable for me, although part of that i'm sure is subconscious due to my connection to real magic's public persona. i understand that they were going for someone who could credibly pull off the basketball scenes, but i'm still left cold

-the portrayal of larry bird is one dimensional and obviously grossly misrepresentative. the real larry had more than enough personality that they could have more accurately incorporated his clever trash talk at the very least. the humor would have improved the character

interestingly, spencer haywood seems to be the only one who is pretty OK with his portrayal:

https://www.tmz.com/watch/2022-04-07-040722-spencer-haywood-1391943/

[tamaraw08]

When snowflakes start calling for Chick to have his statue removed, because of his racist views/comments....then I will really have an issue with the show. I've only watched a couple episodes, and I think it really sucks the way he's portrayed.

Otherwise, I think it's great entertainment. Show is pretty funny. Dig the job the've done of bringing back the 80's. I'd be mad if I were Jerry West too.....but man, is his character great. What a really good acting job by whoever does it. Makes me laugh at almost every scene. I definitely think there's a bit of "smoke" to that fire....with West's personality. Yeah....they've turned the knob up to unreal levels...but I bet that it's prob very close to what he's like.....they just gave him steroids in the show. Lot's of steroids.

I just hope that Chick doesn't wind up with a totally tarnished reputation, and no way to defend himself. Like I said...I'm only a few episodes in....so maybe they fix that.

context: i've been a bulls fan since the late '80s and was a celtics fan from like '84 (whenever CBS ramped up their live broadcasts) through the end of larry's career. i lived in eastern indiana from age 5 to 12 and chicagoland ever since. so basically i've never watched lakers games on a regular basis and have never been a fan. so i can't comment about stuff like the accuracy of the chick hearn portrayal. that said, my impressions of the show:

-john c reilly is freaking fantastic, strikes me as a pretty accurate representation of buss, and is worth watching the show for all by himself
-sally field is/was terrific as the buss matriarch
-the jeanie buss character is excellent
-if the buss sons were/are anywhere near as ridiculous as they are being portrayed, it's easy to see why their role in the organization has been diminished

-the jerry west character strikes me as incredibly unfair, but i do agree that there are probably kernels of truth to it that have been exploded into a bowl of popcorn. and it's pretty tasty. the entertainment value far surpasses the importance of real jerry's hurt feelings

-adrien brody is quite good as reilly. i look forward to seeing how they portray his takeover of the team. and i'm sure it will involve aspects that real reilly will take offense to. maybe some sort of weaselly backstabbing

-jason segal is good as westhead, but it's almost a crime that josh brolin isn't playing that part. case in point:




the players are IMO the least important part of the show. remarkably so given the real life star power. but given that:

-the kid who plays magic is good, but doesn't have half the charisma of magic johnson. so the character is unlikable for me, although part of that i'm sure is subconscious due to my connection to real magic's public persona. i understand that they were going for someone who could credibly pull off the basketball scenes, but i'm still left cold

-the portrayal of larry bird is one dimensional and obviously grossly misrepresentative. the real larry had more than enough personality that they could have more accurately incorporated his clever trash talk at the very least. the humor would have improved the character

interestingly, spencer haywood seems to be the only one who is pretty OK with his portrayal:

https://www.tmz.com/watch/2022-04-07-040722-spencer-haywood-1391943/

Westhead's character was portrayed as a weak indecisive head coach who lacked confidence. I admit, I have trouble finding the Thanos actor being that unsure of himself. The same guy who mastered rugged characters in Secario, Cable in Deadpool2, no Country for Old men etc etc

[Kilroy]

I can't watch it... I grew up watching Magic play starting with his draft... I idolized everything about the Showtime Lakers... As crazy and fun and entertaining as they were, they were also a very serious sports franchise... Every one of those guys from Dr Buss on down to Mitch Kupchak and Rambis, wanted to win at all costs... They might have smiled a bit while doing it, but they were still all killers... So seeing Buss presented as a bit of a front runner buffoon, and Magic portrayed kind of wooden... It just holds no interest for me...

It seems like a series written for non-Lakers fans, to me...

[danfantastk32]

It seems like a series written for non-Lakers fans, to me...

You know, I felt different at first. But as the accuracy get muddier and muddier......you really have to take it as just entertainment. And so it really does become more and more for non-Laker fans. People who care will just end up with the wrong idea.

And I bet that that's probably been the point all along. I don't think this is meant to be a "Laker thing".

[sonnyhill]

I can't watch it... I grew up watching Magic play starting with his draft... I idolized everything about the Showtime Lakers... As crazy and fun and entertaining as they were, they were also a very serious sports franchise... Every one of those guys from Dr Buss on down to Mitch Kupchak and Rambis, wanted to win at all costs... They might have smiled a bit while doing it, but they were still all killers... So seeing Buss presented as a bit of a front runner buffoon, and Magic portrayed kind of wooden... It just holds no interest for me...

It seems like a series written for non-Lakers fans, to me...

Agreed!!!

The show is not about the "Showtime Lakers," but instead, HBO created a salacious story about a basketball team with the backdrop being Los Angeles in the late 70s through the 80s. The "creative liberty" that the producers, writers, director and actors use to "portray" past Laker icons, at first, was amusing, but it is no longer even comedic.

[Landsberger]

It's drama.... so was Showtime behind the scenes. The stuff that the public knows about the after the game lives of those players won't make it in this. Wonder how they will play Worthy's hiring hookers?

Don't get me wrong... that was the best team I've ever seen.... and it's not close. The focus on winning for the 12th man it more than LeBron has shown in P&G. That team was driven. They were also idols and also human. The personas that were built by the NBA for wide consumption are just that.

The comment about overlooking Wilkes is telling. While maybe not the second "best" player for the Lakers he was the second most important one in those first 2 championships. His ability to space the floor for Kareem was what made the half court game dominant.

The game meant something back then. Now it's a platform to sell shoes...

[Eric Bieniemy]

The show is wild and not much of it is exactly true. Don't like how they're doing West or Magic, but at the same time I realize it's drama. I usually laugh at the stuff that's not true.

Good to see your name around these parts old-timer.

[Slava]

The Jerry West sex scene is worse than walking in on your parents.