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What if we'd just stuck with the dudes we acquired and drafted without trading for AD or LeBron...

take the 2017-2018 season for example...

In 17-18 the Lakers had on their roster

Brandon Ingram
Lonzo Ball
Julius Randle
Josh Hart
Jordon Clarkson
Caruso
Zubac
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr
Thomas Bryant

And had Brook Lopez and KCP also... I mean, probably no chance we keep that all together, but even if we kept some of them, that'd been a pretty solid lineup for years to come... We got greedy, I guess...

We’d have one less championship.

Probably still let Caruso or others walk for tax savings once we’ve paid these guys too

RamonSessions7 wrote:Probably still let Caruso or others walk for tax savings once we’ve paid these guys too

You guys still think we let Caruso walk for tax savings? If the FO went so far as to bring in Westbrook and pay his salary, all because LeBron and Davis wanted him... And all the other moves that they did to make Lebron happy...
Isn't it far more likely that Caruso was let go because LeBron or AD or maybe Westbrook, wanted him gone?

Kilroy wrote:

RamonSessions7 wrote:Probably still let Caruso or others walk for tax savings once we’ve paid these guys too

You guys still think we let Caruso walk for tax savings? If the FO went so far as to bring in Westbrook and pay his salary, all because LeBron and Davis wanted him... And all the other moves that they did to make Lebron happy...
Isn't it far more likely that Caruso was let go because LeBron or AD or maybe Westbrook, wanted him gone?

Why would Lebron and AD want Caruso to leave? Is he a bad teammate? Was he committing so many turnovers, taking so many bad shots?
What is likely is those guys you mentioned, many of them would not develop and grow if they stay together because there would not enough minutes and shots for all of them.
Freaking Kuzma is taking 18 shots per game, you really think he gets a chance to touch the ball with Ingram, Randle, Clarkson and 5 other teammates on the roster?....or maybe he will with Ball and Ingram missing so many games, Lonzo has not played for what, 1.5 seasons now?
oh btw why Ball is getting paid 20 Mil this year !
Add Ingram's 31.6 Million.
Add Randle's 24 Million
Add Hart's 12.5 Mil
Add Clarkson's 13.5 Mil.
Add Larry Nance 12 Mil
Add Zubac 11 Mil.
Add Kuzma's 13 Mil.
yes, Westbrook's contract is huge, along with AD and Lebron but as John Ireland would love to say, LA is a STAR DRIVEN TOWN. Buss is about selling tickets, woudn't mind paying superstars who sell tickets but would let go of little guys like Caruso, Judy Seto, letting Fisher walk etc etc.

the 17-18 Laker roster was a great group. Very talented.
I loved watching them play and I still follow their career paths.

I still don't believe they would be championship caliber.
It would be nearly impossible to keep them all together because of the salary cap anyway.

The trade for AD and the acquisition of LBJ along with some key moves such as KCP, and Green won us a ring which would not have been accomplished with this group.

Speaking of AC, I loved the guy. His hustle and tenacity and defense.
He was expecting a bigger deal than he is worth though frankly. He is a bit of a liability offensively, and he is often injured.
He got 4 yrs, $37 million. I'm not sure I would have given him that at the time.

Lonzo, Hart, Ingram, Randle, Zubac
Caruso, Clarkson, Kuzma, Nance, Bryant

Nice but no chance Lakers FO keep those guys. They probably still trade for Westbrook even without Davis and LeBron.

The reality of the NBA is that you could never sign that group long term. 2-3 of they would be gone by now regardless.

Of the group I think a few are playing well above their pay grade and a couple well below. Kuzma is a steal and Russell is theft personified. Clarkson has turned into a very consistent bench threat. Randle is still Randle. Head down and go! He's rounded out his game a little more than when he was here. Ingram gave a head fake that he was taking another step but he's a player that doesn't lead.

The problem with that group is there was not a complementary group. All seem to be somewhat interchangeable as 3rd best players on a really good team.... well... except Russell who's a journeyman max player. Maybe the first ever.

Ball has fought injury and massive inconsistency to be almost forgotten. I always liked Nance for his non-stop hustle and effort.

Zu is a consistent "do what it takes" player... still don't understand the move to trade him to the Clipps.

Who knows? The NBA is going into an era of no true Superstar once Bron hangs it up. Maybe Luka... but there is no young core in the league that matches the young cores of the last 30 years.

This would already be a clippers town by now

2014 randle over Zach LaVine
2015 D'Angelo over kristaps, Turner, and Booker
2016 we got Ingram
2017 ball over Tatum, Fox and lauri
2018 Wagner over Mitchell Robinson, Gary Trent Jr, brunson
2019 we drafted Hunter over Darius Garland. but that trade was used for Anthony Davis
2020 jaden McDaniels over bane, and traded him along with Danny Green for Dennis Schroeder
2021 Isaiah Jackson over Bones hyland and Quentin Grimes
2022 ... we always do decent with our second round pics.

Pointgod wrote:We’d have one less championship.

This.

The trade pisses me off to this day was the Zubac for Mike Muscala trade. We had zero reason to do that. We have a good young big that we traded for a journey man forward. The Clippers extended and still find Zubac valuable to this day. Also why did we let Randle go for nothing not even a second round pick. Just idiotic asset management and waste. Even if we had kept those players mentioned above, we aren’t sniffing success with our dumbass management.

Landsberger wrote:The reality of the NBA is that you could never sign that group long term. 2-3 of they would be gone by now regardless.

Of the group I think a few are playing well above their pay grade and a couple well below. Kuzma is a steal and Russell is theft personified. Clarkson has turned into a very consistent bench threat. Randle is still Randle. Head down and go! He's rounded out his game a little more than when he was here. Ingram gave a head fake that he was taking another step but he's a player that doesn't lead.

The problem with that group is there was not a complementary group. All seem to be somewhat interchangeable as 3rd best players on a really good team.... well... except Russell who's a journeyman max player. Maybe the first ever.

Ball has fought injury and massive inconsistency to be almost forgotten. I always liked Nance for his non-stop hustle and effort.

Zu is a consistent "do what it takes" player... still don't understand the move to trade him to the Clipps.

All good points esp about NONE of them are really Alpha Superstar who would lead this team
I like Hart, Caruso, Kuz, Ingram and I get that these core would be "fun" to watch but in terms of really winning it all?
Ball has been that 20 Million Dollar disappointment for the Bulls.

Who knows? The NBA is going into an era of no true Superstar once Bron hangs it up. Maybe Luka... but there is no young core in the league that matches the young cores of the last 30 years

.
I really think the Boston young core was pretty close of winning it all last Finals until Wiggins step up big time with his defense plus 18 pts/game and Poole's 3pt shooting.

Pointgod wrote:The trade pisses me off to this day was the Zubac for Mike Muscala trade. We had zero reason to do that. We have a good young big that we traded for a journey man forward. The Clippers extended and still find Zubac valuable to this day. Also why did we let Randle go for nothing not even a second round pick. Just idiotic asset management and waste. Even if we had kept those players mentioned above, we aren’t sniffing success with our dumbass management.

Lakers that year ranked 29th in the league in 3pt shooting because Magic had this crazy idea that what this team needed "playmakers/shot creators" so he recruited guys like Beasley, Lance Stephenson, Rondo to play next to Ingram and Ball who were ALSO struggling to shoot from 3. That team ranked 24th in ORTG inspite of having Lebron James with the team. Lebron's team ranked top 5 in this area for like 4 straight years in Cleveland because he had shooters to space the floor for him to operate properly.
Upon realizing that mistake, they traded Zu for Muscala AND Reggie Bullock both have a career ave of 38% from 3.
I never understood too why they let Randle go for nothing either but a bigger mistake was letting Brook Lopez walk IMO.

I mean, why can't we follow the spurs lengthy run model? I'd prefer even knowing we wouldn't have been able to keep them if some of that group was what we are watching these days. 1 chip and now we are about to go through that type of rebuild again... lame.

Pointgod wrote:We’d have one less championship.

Kilroy wrote:What if we'd just stuck with the dudes we acquired and drafted without trading for AD or LeBron...

take the 2017-2018 season for example...

In 17-18 the Lakers had on their roster

Brandon Ingram
Lonzo Ball
Julius Randle
Josh Hart
Jordon Clarkson
Caruso
Zubac
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr
Thomas Bryant

And had Brook Lopez and KCP also... I mean, probably no chance we keep that all together, but even if we kept some of them, that'd been a pretty solid lineup for years to come... We got greedy, I guess...

Kilroy, you pose an intriguing question which requires nuance to answer.

The above list of talent, combined with LeBron, should have been nurtured to compete for conference championships and titles. The Laker scouting department and the Laker front office deserve kudos for assembling such a strong roster of young talent; yet, at the same time, the front office fell short of hiring a head coach and assistant coaching staff which could integrate that young talent with LeBron's GOAT-level talent AND win LeBron's confidence that there was a viable plan in place.

Luke Walton, a championship-winning player and a championship-winning assistant coach, was identified by Magic as not a good fit to coach the above-assembled team. We have to wonder, "Are Jeanie and the front office inept at hiring coaches and are they also unwilling to pay top dollar to both hire and retain (contract length is also an issue to consider since it was the reason why Ty Lue did not get hired to coach the Lakers) top-tier coaches (head coach, assistants, development staff, etc.)?

While it is popular to jump on the "hate Westbrook bandwagon," is anyone also else getting tired of the AD act, too?

tamaraw08 wrote:

Kilroy wrote:

RamonSessions7 wrote:Probably still let Caruso or others walk for tax savings once we’ve paid these guys too

You guys still think we let Caruso walk for tax savings? If the FO went so far as to bring in Westbrook and pay his salary, all because LeBron and Davis wanted him... And all the other moves that they did to make Lebron happy...
Isn't it far more likely that Caruso was let go because LeBron or AD or maybe Westbrook, wanted him gone?

Why would Lebron and AD want Caruso to leave? Is he a bad teammate? Was he committing so many turnovers, taking so many bad shots?
What is likely is those guys you mentioned, many of them would not develop and grow if they stay together because there would not enough minutes and shots for all of them.
Freaking Kuzma is taking 18 shots per game, you really think he gets a chance to touch the ball with Ingram, Randle, Clarkson and 5 other teammates on the roster?....or maybe he will with Ball and Ingram missing so many games, Lonzo has not played for what, 1.5 seasons now?
oh btw why Ball is getting paid 20 Mil this year !
Add Ingram's 31.6 Million.
Add Randle's 24 Million
Add Hart's 12.5 Mil
Add Clarkson's 13.5 Mil.
Add Larry Nance 12 Mil
Add Zubac 11 Mil.
Add Kuzma's 13 Mil.
yes, Westbrook's contract is huge, along with AD and Lebron but as John Ireland would love to say, LA is a STAR DRIVEN TOWN. Buss is about selling tickets, woudn't mind paying superstars who sell tickets but would let go of little guys like Caruso, Judy Seto, letting Fisher walk etc etc.

LMAO this thread Is awesome.

@Tamara Thread title Is about "what If we hadn't traded for AD/Bron" etc ... LMAO

I came back only for trade deadline stuff but this funny asf ... With out Bron/AD Lakers wouldn't have traded for Russ as stated b4 they had a huge say In trading for Russ (not final say, but huge say) as Killroy stated ... Damn I kind of miss forums lmao ... Maybe I'm a tad drunk as I jut moved house and tired asf but your post doesn't make sense lmao - Not only that If you hadn't traded for Bron/AD you wouldn't even be talking about them, but you go on about it lmao kind of funny, maybe the grog talking

EDIT: @Tamara ok I read It wrong I blame the grog now a tad hungover, but I'm seeing things clearly now lmao apologies

Kilroy wrote:What if we'd just stuck with the dudes we acquired and drafted without trading for AD or LeBron...

take the 2017-2018 season for example...

In 17-18 the Lakers had on their roster

Brandon Ingram
Lonzo Ball
Julius Randle
Josh Hart
Jordon Clarkson
Caruso
Zubac
Kyle Kuzma
Larry Nance Jr
Thomas Bryant

And had Brook Lopez and KCP also... I mean, probably no chance we keep that all together, but even if we kept some of them, that'd been a pretty solid lineup for years to come... We got greedy, I guess...

That's not a champion ship team, but more fun as hell to watch than Bron/Ad ball pick n roll. And as you all know I'm a hater, haters gonna hate. I still don't believe about the bubble chip, but It counts, only won that because of shorten season, but as other stated everyone had same shot, so It Is what It Is - I'd still pay for that above team.

RamonSessions7 wrote:Probably still let Caruso or others walk for tax savings once we’ve paid these guys too

Nope not a chance In hell, they would have kept him