Quick New Contending Plan

[LLcoleJ]

You obviously didn't read my post. I completely understand that you can't renounce then resign. I am proposing to not renounce Turiaf, Ariza, or Karl. With the trade I propose that leaves 9 mill left over.

Read my post if you have the time (it's long) and correct me if I'm wrong about anything and offer you r opinion on whether a deal like the one I propose is fair to both teams.

I read your post and I was putting more emphasis on ones OP. However, if we even looked at your deal it would that much more harder. You really think we can dump Rad and or Luke for relief? Also, you would do this at the expense of Farmar?

I am all for making deals but when we get to much off the beaten path sometimes its better to not make a trade and or build of shaky what if plans.

Our long term contracts i.e rad and luke are not going to get sold anywhere for cap relief.

We are good now, so we need to build off of that, not strip it down to go for broke.

[LLcoleJ]

Phil, I might be wrong but can we not use our cap space first and then resign our own free agents using their bird rights? Isn't that what Milwaukee did with Charlie Bell this year?

Charlie signed a RFA offer sheet with MIA. The Bucks were able to match that deal because the owned his rights. I am not sure if the Bucks renounced his rights but if they did.. that is the 1 exception where a team can resign a player after being renounced.

34. Can the renouncement be renounced? In other words, can a team un-renounce a player and then sign him using a Bird exception?

Only in one specific circumstance -- when they renounce one or more of their players in order to create enough cap room to sign another team's restricted free agent, but the restricted free agent's original team matches the offer sheet and keeps him. If that happens, the team can rescind the renouncement. There are a couple exceptions to this -- they can't rescind a renouncement if doing so takes them from below the salary cap to above it; or if they are above the cap and rescinding the renouncement takes them farther above the cap than they were before the renouncement.

The get under the cap and then resign your players act is something the NBA is aware of and wont allow.

[LLcoleJ]

No, Phil is right. You have to either COMPLETELY renounce your free agent, meaning they are gone FOREVER or at least a full season (correct me if I'm wrong) or resign your free agent first and sign another free agent with the remaining money.

yup.. its a great idea but the NBA has prepared themselves for it.

[ALL HAIL]

I feel you. And I definitely considered this before posting the idea but:

(1) I do feel Miami would bite at the chance to get Odom next to Wade again, this time with Shaq. They'd also LOVE to sport Farmar or Critt next to Wade as well. Riley as already gone on record saying that he should have signed an outside shooter this off season instead of being cheap. That being said, I think he could really use Radmanovic. Walton is a cheap throw in that they can use and Mihm is depth at center to replace Mourning.

(2) To your point about stripping the team when it is doing well, I say, every player (with the exception of Radman) that I propose shipping out can easily be replaced Critt for Farmar, Ariza for Walton, Haslem for Odom, Barron for Mihm, and Patterson/Coby Karl for Radman.

I agree, you hate to trade five players when your team is in the hunt but we all know that we need to somehow INSURE that we will have the ability to improve.

It sounds good to let stand pat and let Farmar and Walton and Critt and Ariza and Radman and Odom continue to improve but how high of ceiling to they really have?

Walton will never be Artest. Ariza is a long way away from being a versatile offensive player, Farmar's production per minute is ridiculous and will only go down (however slight), Critt has a lot of potential but no spot in the rotation (he is a big muscular PG but he isn't 6'5 more like 6'3 and can't be depended on to play 2 guard at a high level) and Radman is exactly what he is a shooter who will shoot 40 percent from the field and 40 percent from the arc. I won't say anything for Odom who win it's all said and done will be remembered as very good role player ... think Derrick McKey.

[LLcoleJ]

I feel you. And I definitely considered this before posting the idea but:

(1) I do feel Miami would bite at the chance to get Odom next to Wade again, this time with Shaq. They'd also LOVE to sport Farmar or Critt next to Wade as well. Riley as already gone on record saying that he should have signed an outside shooter this off season instead of being cheap. That being said, I think he could really use Radmanovic. Walton is a cheap throw in that they can use and Mihm is depth at center to replace Mourning.

I dont believe that MIA would bite on a deal that brought in LO and Vlad ( 20 million ) to go with Shaq and Wades (34 million) and even if they did that is not a championship team that further puts them playing catch up to the post Shaq era. I dont see any way they would further hurt themselves by adding - LO, Rad and Walton ( who is not a cheap throw in) and US losing farmar would hurt us.

(2) To your point about stripping the team when it is doing well, I say, every player (with the exception of Radman) that I propose shipping out can easily be replaced Critt for Farmar, Ariza for Walton, Haslem for Odom, Barron for Mihm, and Patterson/Coby Karl for Radman.

I disagree

I agree, you hate to trade five players when your team is in the hunt but we all know that we need to somehow INSURE that we will have the ability to improve.

This is not the only deal that will let us improve.

It sounds good to let stand pat and let Farmar and Walton and Critt and Ariza and Radman and Odom continue to improve but how high of ceiling to they really have?

never said we should stand pat, we just need to make deals that make sense and not make them just to make them. We have to consider salary cap, chemistry and both long term and short tem effects. Odom ( whom i like) is actually a good 3rd option with the emergence of Drew. My point is unless there is a deal out there we shouldnt just gamble and trade players to hope things go our way in the FA market. We have a great foundation and we need to build off that.

Walton will never be Artest.

Of course not.

Ariza is a long way away from being a versatile offensive player

we cant have the perfect player in everyone. He is a great help for us.

Farmar's production per minute is ridiculous and will only go down (however slight),

I guess we can pick apart every player on the squad..... but can we be sure that any player me might get will be as productive?

Critt has a lot of potential but no spot in the rotation (he is a big muscular PG but he isn't 6'5 more like 6'3 and can't be depended on to play 2 guard at a high level) and Radman is exactly what he is a shooter who will shoot 40 percent from the field and 40 percent from the arc. I won't say anything for Odom who win it's all said and done will be remembered as very good role player ... think Derrick McKey.

I am not opposed to trading anyone not named Kobe and Bynum but we cant expect to trade the players that have us on a 50+ season mark and expect to get back much better and a risk at that.

[ALL HAIL]

Good post dude. I respect your opinions. I could break down every player on the roster but that's not my main point. I was just trying to illustrate that something must be done before we can win a championsip. That trade insprired by your boy One Love is just an idea to do something that I feel would insure either Marion or Artest thus making us instant contenders in my opinion.

In regards to Miami we disagree. I think Riley would MUCH rather make the playoffs than to be in the lottery. With Farmar and Wade in the backcourt, Shaq in the middle, and Odom, Radman, and Walton up front they would defintely be in the playoffs this year. That alone to me makes this trade successful for the Heat. They wouldn't win the championship this year but if they were to fill in holes at backup PG to Farmar, find a backup to Shaq or develop Blount or Mihm, sign a legit SF who can shoot and defend pushing radman and Walton to backup forwards they could conceivably do what they did a few years back (assuming Wade and Shaq stay healthy).

[lakerfan10770]

What is up everyone, thought I'd give a little info on the status of Ronny Turiaf.....

In order for the Lakers to make Ronny a restricted free agent they will have to give a qualifying offer to him. Since he is not coming off a rookie scale contract the amount of the QO would be for 125% of his previous salary or the Veteran Minimum + $175,000. In his case 175K plus vet min would be more. So his QO would be for $1,029,957. Next, since he is a free agent, he will have a cap cost. The amount of his cap cost is the greater of 200% of his previous salary or his qualifying offer. In this case 200% of his previous salary is more. So Ronny's cap cost would be $1,541,220.

Assuming the Lakers got significantly under the salary cap, they could hold on to Ronny's "Bird rights" for a cap hold of $1.5M, sign a free agent using the balance of their cap space, then resign Ronny to whatever amount they want up to the Veteran Maximum. Of course, the amount of cap space available would be impacted by other factors like draft picks, minimum roster charges, decisions on renouncing free agents, and renouncing the MLE & LLE.



I would not be in favor of moving a ton of players just to get under the salary cap. I like the idea of being under the cap, but to me it would make a lot more sense to make a move to properly round out this roster. I think the biggest weakness on the roster is a legit power forward to pair with Bynum. I would certainly be in favor of making a move that involves a combination of Kwame, (Farmar or Critt), & this years 1st for that Power Forward.

If the Lakers were to move Odom for an expring, I would hope that expiring contract would bring a player that could help this year plus something else of value. I am not sure that a deal like that is out their, but perhaps someone could come up with something. I am having trouble coming up with a deal that all parties involved would like.

[Dexmor]

Obviously you need to read cap rules 101.
Anyway I don't think Odom lost his ability to create. You can't unless you decline of age and he hasn't.
Plus there is no guarantee we would get somebody better then Odom even if the cap worked differently.

The best thing we can do is trade Kwame but the problem is they might not to avoid the luxary tax when Bynum signs his 100 million dollar deal.

[AfricanSensation]

IMO the best thing for LA would be package Odom, Kwame + future picks or/and Crittenton for the best player they can get. Its not like Odom is a scrub that needs to be dump for an expiring.

He is not a good match with Kobe but other teams can use him, a team like Toronto with noone who can create of the dribble and rebounding pb can use a Odom at SF, and they are not the only team like that. Hell the Bucks could use him at the 3 and Redd is available for the right offer. Maybe Redd and Gadz for the LA package above?

[lakerfan10770]

Obviously you need to read cap rules 101.
Anyway I don't think Odom lost his ability to create. You can't unless you decline of age and he hasn't.
Plus there is no guarantee we would get somebody better then Odom even if the cap worked differently.

The best thing we can do is trade Kwame but the problem is they might not to avoid the luxary tax when Bynum signs his 100 million dollar deal.

"You talkin' to me?"

JK,

but seriously, are you?