RealGM

Am I the only one who sees that Mitch has surrounded the team with the same skill set of players that he had with Shaq & Kobe...Not really the same talent level, but the same set of skills...

Harper = Fisher - Clutch veteran with triangle experience...
Fisher = Farmar - Young 3pt shooter that hustles...

Shaw = Vujacic - Can play 3 position, pest on defense, hit the long ball...

Fox = Walton - Jack of all trades, master of none...
George = Ariza - Athletic slasher who hustles on defense

Grant/Green = Turiaf - solid defender, can hit 18ft jumper, does the little things...
Horry = Radmanovic - Spaces the floor, can play both forward spots

Kobe is now in Shaq's position and Bynum is in Kobe's...

defense is what separates Walton/Radmanovic from Fox/Horry, but they can bring the same skills...

this is why I feel that if we can trade Odom for a great shooter at either the 2 or 3 (Redd, Miller), Kwame into Kurt Thomas (allows him to fill the Grant/Green role with Turiaf filling Madsen's) are roster will be perfectly balanced and compete with anyone in the league...

you make good connections
maybe Mitch is on the right track

This could very well be just me, but I never thought the old Lakers roster as the most talented in the league. They relay heavily on the dominance of their two superstars to win games. All the role players do was the little things to make the life of their superstars easier, and they were masters of that.

That's why I don't think copying the same roster is a good strategy to build a championship team. Kobe is still as dominant as ever, but his sidekick in Bynum has a way to go to be at a young Kobe's level of dominance. The lesser impact our superstars have on the game, the more contribution we will have to get from our supporting cast. This team needs three star players to be a contender, not two like the old Lakers team. That's why we should focus on getting that third guy to go with Bynum and Kobe instead of just filling in some minor holes on the roster. And by the way, Odom is not that third guy because he doesn't really do anything in the triangle any more other than grab a few boards.

I agree with you slifersd.

I think its dangerous to try and copy previous champions because a lot had to do with the chemistry of the superstars and the makeup of the league at the time.

Our best bet is to continue to work on being 2 deep at every position.

That's one thing the Lakers and Celtics had in the 80's (and even the Bulls of the 90's) that is worth copying in any era.

Both teams played slightly different styles, but they both had incredible depth at every position...and it is why they are 2 of the greatest teams to ever play.

In fact, they even signed and traded for reserves to stop other reserves.

I think we should focus less on what team to copy (i.e. Kobe's Pippen, Kobe and Bynum's Robert Horry, etc.) but more on how to improve the depth and chemistry of the current team.

If Kidd can be had for a reasonable price that doesn hurt our depth, he'd be a perfect fit.

And not to try and replicate it, but that would make us more like the showtime Lakers than anything else.

Kidd, Kobe, Odom, Bynum + deep bench
vs.
Magic, Scott, Worthy, Kareem + deep bench

Very thoughtful post. I agree with almost all of the OPs points.

However, I am not certain that we need to make ANY moves. I know this will be met with plenty of opposition, but I strongly believe that this team, as constructed, and when healthy, has what it takes to compete for a ring NEXT year.

I felt we were an elite team before Bynum went down, but not quite experienced enough to win it all this year. Now with Bynum out (and lets not discount the effect of losing Ariza who was beginning to find his spots in the offense) I dont believe we will be able make the same strides this year.

That being said, a little adversity should make us stronger for next season. Which is OUR year, as I have believed all along. That is not to say that we cannot get healthy and make a nice run to finish the season and possibly suprise someone in the playoffs. But I dont think we should be desperate for help this year, especially if it comes in the form of a bad contract that could stifle the growth of our young guys and/or inhibit our ability to sign free agents in the years to come.

While I do see many potential trades that could benefit this team both short and long term, for now, unless a deal comes along that blows our socks off...I say patience is the key.

^^ agreed. good post.

my only gripe

West >>>Mitch

snaquille oatmeal wrote:my only gripe

West >>>Mitch

True.

Although I will say, with the emergence this season of some of our players, I think Mitch is proving that he's at least comparable if not better at drafting than West.

The thing that made Jerry so good was his trades (Byron Scott, Shaq, Kobe, etc.) while Mitch has yet to make that career defining trade.

In fact, he probably owes two because of the Shaq trade and the Kwame trade.

But in all honesty, if Mitch can make one great trade, aka steal Kidd away, and we win a couple championships, I think he'll have secured a spot as one of the top GM's in the league despite the blemishes.

You know, while we are on the topic of Mitch's performance, I must say I appreciate having a GM who does not trade for the sake of trading. Mitch seems to trade by necessity only, with little willingness to take risks (perhaps to a fault sometimes).

Take, for instance, the trade for Kwame [prepare yourselves, I am going to attempt to validate this trade]. At the time we had a back log at the 3 and a noticeable shortage of bigs. Kwame was still considered somewhat of a raw prospect with great upside and potential. While I think Mitch should have held out and insisted that Devan replace CB in that deal (I believe Washington would have bit b/c they felt Kwame was a bust), Mitch decided to take the risk and afterall trading small for big is usually less risky.

You know what, forget it, I cannot justify that trade...it just sucked...before and after the fact.

Point to take from this, Mitch has been real hesitant to trade b/c he always gets jobbed, better to stand pat than trade for the sake of trading. Especially when you run an offense as complicated as the triangle.

At least he can draft well, now lets sit back and watch these youngsters take this team to the top with the help of a matured Kobe Bryant who, at least prior to Bynum's injury, seemed less concerned with having the spotlight and more concerned with winning.

I fully agree with the Kwame trade.. It hurts like hell now, but it was a good gamble at the time.

I think Mitch has been solid in retrospect. More solid than West has been over the last two or three years.

Radman = Horry is the biggest joke of the year so far


btw, Im assuming Odom = Glen Rice? 3rd option that doesnt always play up to his potential

For a good GM to become a great one, they need to take calculated risk. Kwame Brown was a huge risk that didn't pay off and Kupchak has to at least take some responsibilities for that move instead of getting off the hook like a lot of people believe here.

The one thing I have always had problems with Kupchak is that he doesn't seem to be all that concentrated on the market. There are trades and signings that can benefit our team very much, maybe not enough to take the team over the top, but certainly an upgrade in talent. But when they talk about those trades, we are never involved in any of them. Every year, players were signed and traded for cheap, but we never get any of them.

Looking at Spurs, they negotiated with every single cheap free agents and good trades that benefit their team, even though they already have a championship caliber team. That is what a good GM is supposed to do. Explore what the market has to offer and always go for it when an opportunity presents itself. This team's rebuilding process involved an awful lot of standing around and waiting instead of going out and trying. And that is the problem with Kupchak.

^^^I could not agree more that a good GM must take calculated risks. Certainly part of the job description is evaluating potential moves and weighing the risks with many other factors, all the while being cognizant of the reality that all deals go through the man that signs the checks.

That being said, I feel your analogy to the Spurs is misplaced. I believe Mitch has been actively pursuing all options that would make this team better, anything less and he likely would not still be the GM. However, the key here is not what "we" want, but what these free agents and tradeable players want. I for one, being a free agent, would not have chosen to play with the Lakers two years ago, or last year for that matter. Let alone, having the Spurs as an alternative option. This year, and the next, is/will be a whole different story.

With the emergence of Bynum, Farmar, and hopefully sooner than later, Critt, the Lakers are becoming very attractive to free agents. The fact that CWebb (mind you I dont think much of him as a player) even considered the Lakers tells us something. Free agents looking to contend were not exactly knocking on the door of our FO in years past. Do you think JKidd wanted to play for the Lakers two years ago?

Point being, I am not trying to let Mitch off the hook for his mistakes and/or lack of activity in the free agent/trade market, but what I am saying is that every move Mitch has made, along with the ones he has not, were calculated and, for the most part, sound.

We are in a relatively good financial position, we have some very promising young studs, and we have the best player in the game (err...wait isnt that Lebron ). Not bad for the post "Most-Dominant-Ever" era.

As Laker fans we have certainly been spoiled with success, but we must not overlook the massive overhaul this franchise went through just years ago.

all of your posts have been quite awesome. welcome.

fareweatherfan wrote:
That being said, I feel your analogy to the Spurs is misplaced. I believe Mitch has been actively pursuing all options that would make this team better, anything less and he likely would not still be the GM. However, the key here is not what "we" want, but what these free agents and tradeable players want. I for one, being a free agent, would not have chosen to play with the Lakers two years ago, or last year for that matter. Let alone, having the Spurs as an alternative option. This year, and the next, is/will be a whole different story.

With the emergence of Bynum, Farmar, and hopefully sooner than later, Critt, the Lakers are becoming very attractive to free agents. The fact that CWebb (mind you I dont think much of him as a player) even considered the Lakers tells us something. Free agents looking to contend were not exactly knocking on the door of our FO in years past. Do you think JKidd wanted to play for the Lakers two years ago?

I understand what you are saying, but the players that I am talking about are not aging veterans looking to a ring before they go out but rather the diamonds in the rough.

Two names that were on the market last summer jumps into my mind are Carlos Delfino and Brandon Bass. Neither one of them are superstar materials, but both can have a very important role on this team as bench players. Before Vujacic figured it all out and started playing well, we had nobody to back Kobe up; in the meantime, our pf was the biggest weakness we had (at that point, Odom was considered a SF). Delfino was traded for a second rounder while Bass was signed for veteran minimum. Delfino went to Raptors, a team that has no hope of contending whatsoever; while Bass was just looking for a job that can give him some minutes, no matter where. But we never made our moves at all. That's what I am trying to say when I talk about how Kupchak doesn't pay attention to the market. He doesn't see the potential of those two great players and instead insisted on standing around and waiting on Vujacic and Radmanovich.

Just think about it, when was the last time we got a major steal from our free agent signings? Pretty much everyone Kupchak bring in has been overpaid, except Fisher, who is an old friend of the team. I don't expect Kupchak to get a major steal for every one of his signings, but having none in this many years is unacceptable by my standard.

I don't know. I can't give Mitch or management too much credit.

Sure, Bynum' emergence is the biggest boon for their credibility. But that has a lot to do with Bynum himself. Sure, one can argue that management looked at his size, his age, his personality, all the factors, and said, we need to get this guy.

Why can't I give them that? Because we also have Kwame Brown. Whatever you want to give them credit for, you have to take away because Kwame Brown negates all of that. The rumor is that Kwame is Phil's pick, but wasn't Bynum Jim's pick?

Either way, management is a mess. Too many chefs in the kitchen. I believe the conflict, indecisiveness, and straight up bad decisions ruined the middle years.

There is no excuse for Smush Parker being our point guard for 2 years. None. Zero.

Fish was a good pickup, but only because he's shooting career highs. Should we credit management for that?

And despite that, we have Vlade Divac, Aaron Mckie, Jim Jackson, etc. that shows how dismal our free agent signings have been. Fisher mostly fell into our laps. His daughter's health and his desire to return to LA were the driving factors, not management's brilliance.

And guys like Vujacic. First of all, even know, there are serious drawbacks to his game. He's incredibly unathletic, and he's still a poor driver. There's a good chance that he wouldn't be in this league if Kobe didn't take him under his wing and trust in him, and if Phil didn't have confidence in him by giving him playing time.

I think Bynum really changed, his life changed, over this summer. I think he even said that. He changed his work habits, he changed everything, and he became a new player. I credit him.

Farmar fell to us, and he was almost a no-brainer. Playing in UCLA, dropping in the draft, having a NBDL point guard, it was a must.

Bottom line, Lakers management is too convoluted and uneven to make a judgment.

Our team really became good out of the fire, out of adversity, and out of luck.

I will give them Turiaf, though, I can't deny that. He was a steal.

Thanks, dcash4.

slifersd - Nice points. At this point we may be splitting hairs, essentially arguing the same points For the most part I like your analysis of Mitch's performance.

I really feel Mitch's best work as our GM is yet to come. I expect free agents to be lining up to run with us next season. For the first time ever, in his short career as a GM, Mitch will have some bargaining power. Imho, this is the single most overlooked fact among Laker fans questioning Mitch's performance. It is not a negotiation until both sides have something the other wants (there must be bargaining power on both sides).

We must not forget the unenviable position he has been in over the past two seasons. Successor to arguably the greatest GM in history, being the GM who traded Shaq (even though he had little say), etc. He has been digging himself out of a whole the entire time. Finally I think he will get that breath of air.

He will be bringing in those free agents we've all been waiting for...and we will be contending for the Chip...and Mitch will get his due.

There is plenty of bball left this season, but boy I cannot wait for the next!

That Nicka wrote:Radman = Horry is the biggest joke of the year so far


btw, Im assuming Odom = Glen Rice? 3rd option that doesnt always play up to his potential

+1