Odom Playing Small Forward

[feoekells2]

Odom only has I think two career triples, but he's missed about 20 by an assist or rebound. Over half of these are pre-lakers, when he was playing small. Most of the ones in a lakers uni have more to do with Kobe going off for a ton of points.

He could be a solid 3.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/ ... =date_game

[Triangle Theory]

That's it? 2? Really?

[EiRON]

No, I heard Lamar Odom has 11 career triple-doubles.

[slifersd]

It's not about whether Odom can be a SF or not but rather a SF Odom doesn't fit into our system well. We need a guy who can defend and shoot the lights out. And those just happen to be two of Odom's weakest areas. If Odom wants to play SF in a Lakers uniform by next season, he needs to spend a LOT of time this summer practicing his jumpshots and defense. He has the tools to get the job done, but he needs to put in the effort instead of being lazy all the time. That means no more trips back to Queens and get robbed by some teenager and more time in the gym Kobe style.

[EHL]

In terms of his abilities to rack up triple doubles, he's not going to be getting nearly as many double digit rebounds as he did at PF, SF is further from the basket and Gasol and Bynum will go nuts themselves. He'll be around the 7-8 rpg best case scenario like he was as a Clipper at SF. He's also not good enough of a passer on a consistent basis to have too many double digit assist games this season. He won't get the touches for it to begin with, as Kobe, Pau, and Bynum will by far be the primary options on O, in the post, etc., but he could average 5 a game.

His scoring will definitely stay above 10 per game, but it's going to go way down, maybe as low as 12 a game, as he lacks any consistent jumper, and that'll kill him as a 3. He'd have to improve his jumper a lot to get back to 14-15 ppg with Gasol now on the team.

[EHL]

I also continue to worry about Odom's focus and desire:

Winter does fear that Odom may be the next on the trading block if he doesn

[critical_beatdown]

Lamar's assists could go way up when you consider how many he loses without having a solid post presence. He didn't seem to have great chemistry with Drew, for what I always suspected was less than great post position by Drew, but Lamar would always get it into Kwame, on entries and off drives, but Kwame couldn't catch or finish.

Gasol will catch and finish those, and definitely has Lamar's respect as a player, so I'm looking for Lamar to rack up some triple dubs and could see his assists to 6-7 per minimum the rest of the way.

[ock]

I like Lamar-the-person as much as I dislike Lamar-the-player, so i think he should get a fair shot. I can imagine him actually doing very well with Bynum and Pau in an ideal situation.

As Winter stated, though, sometimes I wonder what is wrong with him, and why he such a defensive (Please Use More Appropriate Word). If he doesn't get his act right with the future core of the franchise (Kobe, Bynum, Gasol) this year though, he will have bought his own ticket out of town.

[critical_beatdown]

I'm actually not that worried about the likes of Paul Pierce against Lamar, nearly all the damage that Pierce has done against us was with Lamar not covering him, and the first time we faced the Celtics this season, even though both guys were at SF mostly, Pierce did all his damage on switches against Luke/Rad/Fisher and/or when Lamar was out of the game.

When the two were matched up, Pierce couldn't go around him and settled for the J, if he shot at all. When Luke or Rad switched on to him, he immediately went by them to the hoop.

[critical_beatdown]

And when Lamar was out of the game, Pierce destroyed us leading the Celtics 2nd unit.

[davidse]

who cares how many tripple doubles he'll have, or about his stats alltogether.

bottom line is, he doesn't have the skill set we now need at the small forward position.
in fact, the two skills we now need most (shooting and paremeter defense) are probably his biggest weaknesses...

we tried it earlier this year - when we were actually trying to run more and play open court basketball - where lamar had a good chance to do well - and he even failed there.

now that we're officialy a half court team (in case nobody noticed...) - he is completely useless for this team, and much more valuable to other teams that will be able to use what he does well and hide his weaknesses (exactly the opposite of our new situation).
there's no better reason to trade a player than that ^.

the ONLY case that can be made for lamar is utilizing his ablity to play pf too - which is exactly why he'll probably still be here untill the offseason - because of the injuries to our bigs and ariza.

but that's when this joke is finaly going to end.

(and i haven't even brought up the financial aspects...)

[critical_beatdown]

That may be the case David, and obviously we are about to find out, but I do not believe that a 6'10 playmaking 3 isn't a good fit for us, especially considering our troubles with injuries in the front court.

Lamar's pass-first mentality and overall versatility will be a perfect match, and his perimeter defense isn't nearly as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Aside from a guy like Lebron, who combines power and quickness, I've seen very few perimeter players be able to go by Lamar, especially when it's not transition and he's down in his stance.

Of course, like I said, we will find out in the coming weeks, but the stint earlier in the season was an illusion IMO, at least as far as Lamar actually being healthy and integrated into what we were trying to do (and handicapped by missing all of training camp and not being in the best shape right off the bat either).

Start looking for a more optimized Lamar who can go back to modeling his game after Magic, not Scottie, and his jump shot is also better than he's often given credit, given his good form, success in the past, and current slump.

[davidse]

sorry cb, but all i see here ^ is wishfull thinking.

when odom is concerned - that is nothing really new.

it's time to stop "hoping" and start facing reality of what odom can or can't give a basketball team.
it's like the dream of kwame at pf...
NOT GONNA HAPPEN.

he is what he is.

can we still be good enough to win with odom at sf ???
yes we can.

but will we be better with a sf that brings a different kind of skill set ?
absolutly.
and if you can look past the facination with a huge front line, or wishfull thinking that odom will be able to do consistently things he hasnt' been able to do his entire career - you'd be clear on that yourself.

[Jajwanda]

And yet you blame Bynum for his lack of positioning?

He was getting pretty deep as the season wore on.

Odom just has no clue how to pickup the triangle, it is so obvious it is just ridiculous.

I like the idea of his height and rebounding advantage he has at the 3 (he has none at the 4 and you know it, since you're a pretty keen observer of 82games.com).

His shot doesn't allow any spacing on the floor and his drive from the 3 point line isn't the same as it is from the elbow....


His best value for the Lakers right now would be to get traded. In fact I'd like to trade him to Houston for Battier, the next chance we get. Sure it ends the tallest frontline in history idea, but I'd rather win a championship.

Battier can pass, shoot, has solid post up moves, and defends extremely well.

[TommyTheCat]

has odom added anything significant to his game since becoming a laker? i like his versatility but it doesn't seem like he's improved much (if at all) compared to most of the other lakers that surround him. i was expecting much more from him than i've seen this season. i'm still hoping he can turn the corner this season.

[critical_beatdown]

sorry cb, but all i see here ^ is wishfull thinking.

when odom is concerned - that is nothing really new.

it's time to stop "hoping" and start facing reality of what odom can or can't give a basketball team.

Your arrogance gets old David, and I've rarely been disappointed with Lamar over the past several seasons, aside from the injuries. This season, he has been disappointing to start out, then played great for a good 6 weeks until Drew got hurt, and he's been fallen a bit again (from my expectations).

Expectations are what make the difference here, as I'm not "wishful thinking", just going on what I've seen and know about basketball, the Lakers, and Lamar's game (just as you are doing). Sometimes I'm wrong about things, as anyone, but I've never expected Lamar to be a legit #2 scorer, never argued we actually needed a legit #2 scorer, and I've rarely ever strayed from actually arguing for Lamar's presence on this team for what he is, not what everyone wanted him to be.

My arguments stand...Lamar is a pass-first, unselfish, very versatile, all-around force for this team, and when you land yet another scorer, especially a big man who can actually catch and convert his passes, then he becomes more valuable, not less (and when you land another top scorer, along with all the scorers we have on this team, the last thing we need is another one over a guy like Lamar).

Now, if Lamar doesn't come through, or continues to struggle with the jumper, then we'll have to review things after the season is over, but until then I'm not selling him short, especially since he's consistently stepped up for us in the 2nd half of the season, down the stretch, and in the playoffs, being a true warrior (and something that was predicted by Lamar supporters both of the last two seasons, with his detractors clearly ending up with egg on their faces).

[critical_beatdown]

Odom just has no clue how to pickup the triangle, it is so obvious it is just ridiculous.

Tex was quoted two seasons ago saying Lamar had "gotten it" as far as Tri, and to my knowledge has never criticized his passing abilities, either entries, outlets, off the dribble, or hot potato.

More than anything, the last and enduring criticism of Lamar in the Tri has been his cutting ability (and effectiveness).

[Jajwanda]

Odom has a great difficulty playing off the ball which will more than likely be in Gasol's and Kobe's hands the majority of the time. Farmar can play well without it as can Fisher and Bynum.

It's great than he's unselfish but if you lock him up in the 3 point land he's almost done for.

Unless it's a defensive liability I'd much rather have Vujajic out there than Odom.

[critical_beatdown]

Odom has a great difficulty playing off the ball which will more than likely be in Gasol's and Kobe's hands the majority of the time.

That's actually not all that true anymore, as Lamar has scored mostly off the ball this season, if you check his 82games.com breakouts. The only problem with his game aside from Triangle cutting issues has been his shooting slump, which is a historic low for him and does not seem likely to continue.

[EHL]

LO has never sniffed 7 per game, that's just wishful thinking. But I guess you have to be a wishful thinker to post in defense of LO so often.

And LO hasn't been a good jump shooter in nearly two years, his percentages are horrible this year and were horrible last year. Clearly his good March/April 06 shooting streak was a fluke, despite some contentions here that it was a newly improved permanent part of his game. And his performances in both Phoenix series led to 1st round exits, not being able to step up in the 2nd option role and dominate. I can't imagine how badly Gasol would have owned the Suns these last two seasons, we'd have seen at least one WCF appearance.